Melbourne city centre aims to be smoke-free by 2016

[Ace of Pop]

Im not English but lived there in the Kray Brothers era. You could walk the streets at night, bad as they were.They were replaced by What ?, you cant now,thanks to Freakin Doo Gooders , Ozz has gone the same way, cant Smoke, do F/A unless you Scream racial Abuse. Walk into China Town in M/Bourne and tell a Chin No Smoking, id sooner tell a Biker Gang.

[GAZZPA]

Im not English but lived there in the Kray Brothers era. You could walk the streets at night, bad as they were.They were replaced by What ?, you cant now,thanks to Freakin Doo Gooders , Ozz has gone the same way, cant Smoke, do F/A unless you Scream racial Abuse. Walk into China Town in M/Bourne and tell a Chin No Smoking, id sooner tell a Biker Gang.

I do not like the idea of anyone telling people what to do unnecessarily, no one would agree with that, please read this line and understand what I am saying.

You refer to a time when the Krays were around in East London,, the Krays were murdering, violent criminals who terrorized the East end community in the 60's,, so not sure what you are trying to say here. You say you could walk around the streets at night then, what do you mean? Do you think it was safer then? If so what is worse now? Drunken louts perhaps? And if it is worse now why do you think the authorities should NOT do something about it?

Could you also explain to me what you cannot do in London TODAY that you could do in the 60's perfectly legally?

[GAZZPA]

"How to take control of the people! The best way to take control of a people and to control them utterly is to take away a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."

Goodbye to freedom! Slowly we will all be in another Soviet Union where rights are dictated. Smoking is just one aspect, just wait until other rights are taken away. Even rights to free speech are being attacked in a lot of countries now. HERE WE COME, TO MAKE A BETTER WORLD FOR YOU, just like the Soviet Union did!!! WE WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU AND YOU WILL OBEY OR BE EXTERMINATED!

Good luck to you all.

You are exaggerating. There are already laws to try and prevent drunken idiots from "doing what they like". Drunk and disorderly, Driving under the influence, criminal damage, assault, rape etc,, all of these happen when stupid buffoons get smashed.

I am not saying that people should not drink, I am saying that it would not be a bad thing for there to be a stigma against going out with the sole purpose of getting drunk and behaving like a dcikhead. For smokers the stigma has grown to such an extent you are almost considered a leper when you go and have a snout.

People have the right to smoke and drink but also people should be considerate and take responsibility for this freedom before they ruin it for everyone.

This is not communism is it.

Taking people’s rights away has many names, some call it communism because ALL as a community must adhere to the rules, regulations, and laws forced upon them; others call it dictatorship, totalitarianism, authoritarianism, fascism, tyranny, oppression, repression, suppression, domination, bullying – call it what you will. Whatever you call it, it is total control by authoritarians who think they can own you or have the right to bully people.

A smoking ban is nothing compared to what is coming but people are unable, or unwilling, to see or comprehend. People are so engrossed in their little, selfish, controlling world that they fail to see the big picture. Enough said, I’m out of here and hope I’m not around when the cookie hits the fan and we have to ask permission to breathe.

Some people will just call it societies laws as well.

I do not accept it when the local authority tell people what they can and can't do when it is not warranted or required, that's what is commonly referred to as "nannying" nowadays. But if there is a problem in society people will hold their hands up and scream at the local authorities demanding action to deal with the issue, that's not nannying.

For me one of those issues is abuse of alcohol and the stupid drunken behavior that seems to plague town and city centers nowadays. Have you tried walking through a city centre full of drunks? You have to be on your guard for sure and its not comfortable. In this instance I want something done about it,, if you are not one of these drunken A holes you have nothing to worry about.

For smoking I don't agree with a city ban but if someone is smoking inconsiderately then that should be dealt with.

What exactly do you disagree with here, please be specific because I am not sure I understand, really.

[samran]

Cant be bothered to keep replying to over emotional non smokers with their wishes of me suffering a miserable death. So, here is my final, reply to those people and my view for others.

Firstly to be clear I agree that smokers need to be considerate, I also have no problem with no smoking indoors, no one wants to breath second hand smoke, I get it. But there are already measures in place to protect people form second hand smoking. If people are being inconsiderate and smoking in an inappropriate place then that can be dealt with without a city wide ban on smoking.

What I have a problem with is that this is taking "nanny state" too far. Not one single person has answered that point as they were too busy spitting at their computer screens replying to my posts.

If smoking outside really is such a huge issue to public health then it should be illegal to smoke, simple as that. What I think people should not accept is the government "nannying" a whole city to stop people indulging in their perfectly legal vices.

If this is accepted then what next? Monitoring of your eating habits because people are too fat? Ban alcohol because no one wants to deal with the drunks that stagger down the streets? Ban driving in the city because of the pollution? Make credit cards illegal because there's too much personal debt? All of those points could be argued as they effect everyone.

In my opinion a lot of Western / Developed countries have gone too far with the nannying already. In the UK it is particularly bad as it is part of the EU and we have EU legislation. However, I now live and work in Thailand. Is Thailand different? Yes it is, there is certainly a lot more freedom. People basically just live and let live most of the time.

I think anyone who has lived in Thailand after living in the West will probably say it is quite refreshing to have the sense of freedom. There are downsides for sure and Thailand does need some more control but it feels to me like the best balance is maybe somewhere between the 2.

So, we need to be very careful about how much control we allow the state to take in a (so called) free country. Ok, non smokers hate smokers but this is just 1 issue. There will supporters and haters for other issues as well.

Personally I do not want to live in a place (or even visit a place) where I cannot feel free to enjoy myself and my perfectly legal vices without scrutiny or state control. That sounds very scary to me.

Mate, it is an elected city council. If the voters don't want it, the chuck them out. Your thesis fails to mention that point.

[Robby nz]

Well to get away from the diversions and back to the OP.

It would be great if everywhere was made smoke free and those who were to addicted to stop could have small places where they could go and complain bitterly to each other that their rights were being infringed.

I hate the filthy stench and it is easy to smell it at 30 to 40 M as has been posted (and denied) previously.

Smokers have no idea how far their trail of smoke extends, it follows along way behind them whether they are walking riding a motorbike or whatever.

Recently stayed on Koh Chang (Ranong) for a few days and the hut I stayed in was about 100m from the dining, community area, I could smell whenever one of the addicts down there lit up even at that distance.

Amazed me how in a place with wonderful clean sea air with no cars or other traffic how anyone would deliberately want to pollute, not only the air they breathed, but that of others.

Similar thing a week or so back at the top waterfall in Erawan national park, in spite of the no smoking signs everywhere some addict had to light up, could smell it for a long way in the clear air.

I have 4 friends now who died of smoking related disease, 2 of lung cancer, one who had a small stroke and his doctor told him if he didn't give up he would have a major stroke and it would kill him, he gave up for 2 days then was back into it, less than a year later the doctor was proved right.

The forth, the only one older than me was the last to die. We visited him in OZ a few months before he died, he had been sitting in a chair hooked up to an oxygen machine for the last 3 years of his life.

His lungs were in so bad shape he couldn't even lie down, he could manage about 10 steps to the toilet dragging the long oxygen hose behind him before he was completely out of breath then he had to sit there for half an hour before he could get back to his chair.

Wonder if you smokers think its really worth the cost, not just in money terms but with the risk they take with your health and the health of your families, particularly your children.

Don't you feel a bit stupid having to go outside or into some enclosure away from people to do your drug ?

Oh I know, smoking doesn't do any harm your, granny smoked all her life and lived to be over a hundred.

But how many years of your life and your kids lives are you willing to gamble for a smoke, 5 maybe 10 ?

But carry on just keep away from me and I will try and avoid you whenever possible.

[daveAustin]

While I reckon this is a good move--by all means smoke in your own space, not where people might be affected--and of course it's highly symbolic regards being a 'clean' city, it does make me think, what next, no farting in public?!

Edited May 18, 2014 by daveAustin

[GAZZPA]

Well to get away from the diversions and back to the OP.

It would be great if everywhere was made smoke free and those who were to addicted to stop could have small places where they could go and complain bitterly to each other that their rights were being infringed.

I hate the filthy stench and it is easy to smell it at 30 to 40 M as has been posted (and denied) previously.

Smokers have no idea how far their trail of smoke extends, it follows along way behind them whether they are walking riding a motorbike or whatever.

Recently stayed on Koh Chang (Ranong) for a few days and the hut I stayed in was about 100m from the dining, community area, I could smell whenever one of the addicts down there lit up even at that distance.

Amazed me how in a place with wonderful clean sea air with no cars or other traffic how anyone would deliberately want to pollute, not only the air they breathed, but that of others.

Similar thing a week or so back at the top waterfall in Erawan national park, in spite of the no smoking signs everywhere some addict had to light up, could smell it for a long way in the clear air.

I have 4 friends now who died of smoking related disease, 2 of lung cancer, one who had a small stroke and his doctor told him if he didn't give up he would have a major stroke and it would kill him, he gave up for 2 days then was back into it, less than a year later the doctor was proved right.

The forth, the only one older than me was the last to die. We visited him in OZ a few months before he died, he had been sitting in a chair hooked up to an oxygen machine for the last 3 years of his life.

His lungs were in so bad shape he couldn't even lie down, he could manage about 10 steps to the toilet dragging the long oxygen hose behind him before he was completely out of breath then he had to sit there for half an hour before he could get back to his chair.

Wonder if you smokers think its really worth the cost, not just in money terms but with the risk they take with your health and the health of your families, particularly your children.

Don't you feel a bit stupid having to go outside or into some enclosure away from people to do your drug ?

Oh I know, smoking doesn't do any harm your, granny smoked all her life and lived to be over a hundred.

But how many years of your life and your kids lives are you willing to gamble for a smoke, 5 maybe 10 ?

But carry on just keep away from me and I will try and avoid you whenever possible.

I am sorry to hear of your 4 friends that died due to smoking related illness, it is a terrible thing. But all smokers know these risks, it is down to them if they want to smoke or not.

However, it is not your place to lecture people about their vices, everyone knows that health risks, the same as we all know the health risks of alcohol, excess food, drugs and other things. People will still do these things, you can't stop that so don't try.

The issue here is the city ban on smoking and whether it should be allowed. I believe it should not BUT I do believe that people need to responsible and considerate to non smokers if they chose to smoke.

I am sorry but I do not buy for a minute that you can smell someone lighting up a cigarette from 100m away in the open air, you would have to scream your lungs out so they could hear you to ask them to extinguish the cigarette because it smells,, please be serious. Even on the very slightest chance that wind conditions are perfect, the planets are aligned and moon is full and you do catch a slight smell it is certainly no health risk to you. This is not just my words, see attached research on second hand smoke and "smoke drift".

The key thing is this. Non smokers should not be exposed to any health risk by breathing a smokers second hand smoke. Now if you don't like the smell of someone who smokes and you find it annoying well sorry but that's tough,, you can't expect a city wide ban on something just because it annoys you a bit form time to time. But if it proves a health risk then I would agree that something needs to be done.

This is what needs to be discussed and a sensible debate needs to happen. So, no health risk to you (it seems that it only a real risk in close proximity over longer periods of time) then no ban and you should leave it alone. Once this is done it takes away any ambiguity as it did with smoking in confined places,, but the decision should not be made just on emotional outbursts form non smokers who just hate smokers.

http://www.no-smoke.org/learnmore.php?id=669

[Thai at Heart]

What about banning all the cars and motorbikes. They let off fumes as well dont they. ? Oh yes planes traveling above, what about them??

It's a common suggestion by smokers Lee, but of course the need to get real.

Over the years there has been an ever tightening of the vehicle emission laws which has made great improvements on what motorcycles, cars and trucks pump out.

Smokers however (not all but most) will walk down the street and around the place chuffing away, blowing their obnoxious fumes everywhere. You can't escape it, as you pass office buildings and so forth there's literally thousands of these dopes applying their trade, the don't give a toss about anyone else, just their own dirty little habit. I am certain most don't realise how much it affects some people. On a relative still day with the slights of breeze I can smell the <deleted> at 20-30 metres and it's not pleasant.

Of course the smokers will chime in now abusing me about their right to smoke without any consideration about my right not to smoke their filthy dirty trail. My wife has a rare form of rhinitis and cigarette smoke can result is quite severe conditions (yes there are other triggers) so she actively avoids people smoking in the streets. We often change our walking route to avoid these a.holes.

I am happy for others to smoke and there should be designated locations where this can be done and these smoke houses could be funded by further increasing taxes on these cancer sticks. In reality, it's a filthy dirty habit which has proven ill health effects and if you want to slowly kill yourself using this method, please do so where it won't effect others.

Anyway, the tide is turning, slowly these disgusting indivuals are being moved along. Good riddance, I would almost consider moving to Melbourne as a result of this.

One final point, it simply amazes me the amount of smokers who discard their butts onto the ground, for some reason beyond me they don't see it as littering, but it's repulsive.

You seriously believe that dilute 2nd hand smoke is that dangerous in an open air environment.

Hope u don't do charcoal barbecuing.....

[neverdie]

What about banning all the cars and motorbikes. They let off fumes as well dont they. ? Oh yes planes traveling above, what about them??

It's a common suggestion by smokers Lee, but of course the need to get real.

Over the years there has been an ever tightening of the vehicle emission laws which has made great improvements on what motorcycles, cars and trucks pump out.

Smokers however (not all but most) will walk down the street and around the place chuffing away, blowing their obnoxious fumes everywhere. You can't escape it, as you pass office buildings and so forth there's literally thousands of these dopes applying their trade, the don't give a toss about anyone else, just their own dirty little habit. I am certain most don't realise how much it affects some people. On a relative still day with the slights of breeze I can smell the <deleted> at 20-30 metres and it's not pleasant.

Of course the smokers will chime in now abusing me about their right to smoke without any consideration about my right not to smoke their filthy dirty trail. My wife has a rare form of rhinitis and cigarette smoke can result is quite severe conditions (yes there are other triggers) so she actively avoids people smoking in the streets. We often change our walking route to avoid these a.holes.

I am happy for others to smoke and there should be designated locations where this can be done and these smoke houses could be funded by further increasing taxes on these cancer sticks. In reality, it's a filthy dirty habit which has proven ill health effects and if you want to slowly kill yourself using this method, please do so where it won't effect others.

Anyway, the tide is turning, slowly these disgusting indivuals are being moved along. Good riddance, I would almost consider moving to Melbourne as a result of this.

One final point, it simply amazes me the amount of smokers who discard their butts onto the ground, for some reason beyond me they don't see it as littering, but it's repulsive.

You seriously believe that dilute 2nd hand smoke is that dangerous in an open air environment.

Hope u don't do charcoal barbecuing.....

Sorry, can you show me where I said that. Are you denying that it has an effect on my wife's rhinitis?

Try and understand, as you might already be aware that a good face full of second hand smoke may be more unpleasant to others, than what you may experience, even if short sharp inconsistent amounts of it isn't harmful.

Seriously, if I started walking the streets and taking a 'dump' here and there because I somehow got addicted to taking a 'dump' in public......how long would this be tolerated by inconsiderate smokers. Almost the same thing or at least it has some parrellels. It's dirty and it stinks, it's inconsiderate, yet apparently not that risky, unless you get in it and suck it up.

[neverdie]

The key thing is this. Non smokers should not be exposed to any health risk by breathing a smokers second hand smoke. Now if you don't like the smell of someone who smokes and you find it annoying well sorry but that's tough,, you can't expect a city wide ban on something just because it annoys you a bit form time to time.

Mornin Gazzpa, (sorry by habit I've been writing Gazza).

Fella. I can tell that you are an intelligent chap (or chapette) and you have clearly argued your case well, but you show your arrogance in the above sentence.

In fact the proposed ban is not right throughout the city of Melbourne, it's concentrated virtually in the middle if the CBD and at the marketplace. This makes sense, as it's not pleasant to be rubbing shoulder to,shoulder with people that are smoking in these heavily populated places. Being a gentleman, I seriously doubt that someone of your calibre would even light up in these circumstances......but others do.

The council has proposed the ban. I'm sure you understand how these things go, with councils, voting and decisions, having been at a few of these council meetings it's amazing how slowly the wheels can turn and decisions are made. I seriously doubt this has anything to do with one councillor trying to make a name for himself, just not easy to happen.

Already in Melbourne the are smoking bans in place in so e of the outer suburbs (in their central shopping areas). For example at Frankston (30-40 min) south of the CBD. That ban has been in place for a while now and has a lot of support from the local community.

So, remain calm, it's only a small portion of the greater Melbourne area where these bans are proposed for......but the whole cause is gaining momentum, the non smokers are slowly getting sick of the attitude displayed above. I have now doubt in years to come there will be many places like this popping up, after all it wasn't that long ago that one could smoke virtually anywhere, including in planes.

Anyway, eventually you and I will just have to agree to disagree and there will always be another person that will come in and add either one argument or the other.

Having said that, wherever I go, I always try to have minimum impact on other people, it's just the way I was raised by my strict father. I was taught to respect other peoples space. These days that seems rare. In recent years, the wife and I have been living on our yacht. I cannot tell you the amount of times we have been moored somewhere, virtually a million miles from anywhere when some inconsiderate so and so has pulled up nearby from god knows where and the started to make a racket of noise. Is there not any respect anymore, is it really that hard to escape the inconsiderate human? I've had people pull up at shopping centres and open their car door into mine. I've even seen one woman walk up and put her box of shopping on the boot of my expensive sports car while she opened her boot. That didn't end well for her....what on earth was she thinking? In Thailand I've returned to my motorcycle only to find that someone has moved my bike from the parking spot Reserved for me under the building just to park their car there....again, this didn't end well for them. Seriously, is nothing sacred? There probably wouldn't be this smokers ban proposal in Melbourne CBD if certain smokers had been just a little more considerate & of course that ' tough luck ' attitude tide has slowly but surely turned and it's a good thing IMO.

Good day.

[chooka]

Just make it illegal, criminal offence to smoke. Probably loose billions in taxes tho.

[samran]

Just make it illegal, criminal offence to smoke. Probably loose billions in taxes tho.

And save millions more on not needing to spend on health related illnesses.

I think the saying goes, that if they invented smoking today, it would be banned.

[Ace of Pop]

That's rather funny logic when most illness today is caused by lack of exercise and poor diet.The Fat little kids today get carried everywhere, even if they never smoke they will die quick anyway.

[Ace of Pop]

Yes over the Top, but how old are You.?.Ever been in Handsworth Birmingham during the Riots, ever been in Toxteth , P.C Blakelock Era. long tome ago, but my English friend doesn't se England as you do.Now if I go back to Lisbon, times stood still regarding Yobs. Perhaps you could explain that, and why Portuguese Men n Women smoke too much. As for Blacks I have some dam good friends who make harder comments about their idiots than any whites.My English does get Convoluted at time, so read betwwen the lines.

[Ace of Pop]

Nice exchange of views, wish You Well GAZZPA

[Scott]

Off-topic and racist posts removed along with replies.

[GAZZPA]

Nice exchange of views, wish You Well GAZZPA

you too fella,,

[tw25rw]

As I see it, there are 2 reasons to take up smoking. Childish stupidity and plain stupidity. Any claim that it is simply their freedom to choose comes under the plain stupidity category.

I concur, but I can't really blame those who are so old that they got addicted when it was the height of fashion to smoke and the health dangers were unknown. The problem is that it has been obvious what an offensive and high risk addiction it is for many decades now, but young people are still taking it up.

I have to agree young people need protecting from smoking and other vices, legal or illegal.

Young people are also taking up drinking as well,, in excess on frequent occasions. I believe Melbourne has a serious problem with underage binge drinking despite the well publicized dangers of drinking.

It seems adults in Melbourne have a lot to learn about displaying appropriate behavior to minors. See article below about the disgraceful drunken behavior at the Melbourne cup. Behaviour like this at such a big, global event is pretty shameful for the city of Melbourne.

As drinking effects everyone I think it would be a great idea to have Melbourne enforce the Worlds first smoke free and dry city. Enforcing a law that protects the public and children from 2 damaging habits would be a strong message to Australia and the rest of the world. Modern day prohibition for the right reasons. I for one don't want to see terrible stories about drunken violence on innocent bystanders, piles of sick on the pavement floor, women under the influence being raped, children damaging their development etc.

I think this new politician may be the man brave enough to implement such a plan. Get writing folks.

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/breaking-news-blog/daily-mail-features-loutish-melbourne-cup-antics/20121107-28wxx.html

Australia in general has a drinking problem, much like the UK. Drugs as well. And there are a lot of places where drinking on the street is forbidden.

[tw25rw]

Just make it illegal, criminal offence to smoke. Probably loose billions in taxes tho.

I wouldn't ban it altogether personally, But I would make it harder to do and less profitable for the industry. Maybe some kind of prescription system or a permit that entitles you to buy a certain amount that you can only get when old enough to know better than to start. Would do it for other drugs as well.

[saakura]

I dont hate smokers, just pity them that they cant kick this disgusting habit. I am exttremely sensitive to cigarette smoke and can smell it instantly if there is even a slightest air draft. I am now in a business trip to a small city in central China and here, they even smoke inside the lifts. I am reminded of the days when smoking was allowed in airplanes and cinemas.

[neverdie]

I dont hate smokers, just pity them that they cant kick this disgusting habit. I am exttremely sensitive to cigarette smoke and can smell it instantly if there is even a slightest air draft. I am now in a business trip to a small city in central China and here, they even smoke inside the lifts. I am reminded of the days when smoking was allowed in airplanes and cinemas.

So I suppose you are like me sensitivity wise and would you agree depending on the breeze etc that cigarettes can be smelt at 20-30 metres? More or less? (just interested to see as our resident smoker denies this is possible. Apparently it's rubbish).

[tw25rw]

I dont hate smokers, just pity them that they cant kick this disgusting habit. I am exttremely sensitive to cigarette smoke and can smell it instantly if there is even a slightest air draft. I am now in a business trip to a small city in central China and here, they even smoke inside the lifts. I am reminded of the days when smoking was allowed in airplanes and cinemas.

So I suppose you are like me sensitivity wise and would you agree depending on the breeze etc that cigarettes can be smelt at 20-30 metres? More or less? (just interested to see as our resident smoker denies this is possible. Apparently it's rubbish).

Strangely, as much as I hate smoking, when someone lights up with a match and I get the whiff of sulphur, it brings back happy memories of going to the footy as a kid.

[neverdie]

I dont hate smokers, just pity them that they cant kick this disgusting habit. I am exttremely sensitive to cigarette smoke and can smell it instantly if there is even a slightest air draft. I am now in a business trip to a small city in central China and here, they even smoke inside the lifts. I am reminded of the days when smoking was allowed in airplanes and cinemas.

So I suppose you are like me sensitivity wise and would you agree depending on the breeze etc that cigarettes can be smelt at 20-30 metres? More or less? (just interested to see as our resident smoker denies this is possible. Apparently it's rubbish).

Strangely, as much as I hate smoking, when someone lights up with a match and I get the whiff of sulphur, it brings back happy memories of going to the footy as a kid.

55555 the smell of fresh napalm in the morning.

Cigarettes, Mullet haircuts, Wife beaters, ripped shorts, long neck of VB and an oddly balanced tattoo to tooth ratio. Yeah I remember the footy

[Ulysses G.]

Strangely, as much as I hate smoking, when someone lights up with a match and I get the whiff of sulphur, it brings back happy memories of going to the footy as a kid.

For me, it reminds me of the parties my parents had when I was a kid. The whole house was packed with people smoking. It was hard to breath, everything stunk and the ashtrays were piled with nasty cigarette butts.

[neverdie]

Strangely, as much as I hate smoking, when someone lights up with a match and I get the whiff of sulphur, it brings back happy memories of going to the footy as a kid.

For me, it reminds me of the parties my parents had when I was a kid. The whole house was packed with people smoking. It was hard to breath, everything stunk and the ashtrays were piled with nasty cigarette butts.

Wow, that's going back along way UG, like &lt;deleted&gt; wowza... I didn't even realise that had parties like that back in 1876.

[Chicog]

Melbourne can suck my balls. Sydney is a nicer city anyway.

[neverdie]

Melbourne can suck my balls. Sydney is a nicer city anyway.

Not nice young man !

If I were sitting next to you right now I'd put my cigar out, right between your eyes

Sydney is a pretty city, if ine is to cast ones eyes along the harbour, or perhaps if you take a drive out along the Northern Beaches or something......but the drivers a rude aggressive and the streets run wild at night with crime, violent assaults, drive by shootings and freaks. Not unlike Melbourne really.