Why is Russia such a cesspool?

[BuffaloRescue]

Hi

I want to buy a basket of shares in the SET

In a previous post i was advised to buy TDEX using a Bualuang Securities account.

But ive noticed mutual funds investment is available via Kasikorn Bank Internet Banking.

Im just wondering if its possible to invest in that or something similar via Kasikorn Bank?

How can i get an investment that follows SET share price, and get dividends?

[saakura]

K-Equity, K-SET50 and other K-Bank mutual funds invest in SET. You can open a savings or current account in any K-Bank and fill in a form to buy units in these funds. Dividends are paid into your account.

Edit : you can buy online also if you have internet banking facility for the savings account.

Edited May 17, 2014 by saakura

[Ludacris]

Since you're just starting out, Morningstar Thailand has lots of information about Thai mutual funds.

As far as I know, all the asset management departments of the banks or fund houses allow online subscription and redemption.

http://tools.morningstarthailand.com/th/fundquickrank/default.aspx?Site=th&LanguageId=en-TH

[AyG]

Before you decide to buy any Thai mutual fund, compare the performance with non-Thai funds such as Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust and ETFs such as iShares MSCI Thailand Capped ETF.

No point in paying high fees to Thai fund managers when foreign funds have lower fees and better performance.

If, indeed, you do want to "get an investment that follows SET share price, and get dividends" then the ETF almost exactly fits the bill. (It screens out shares that are basically privately held so not fairly priced in the market. In fact, it's probably better.)

[Suradit69]

If you're an American, you may have a problem getting a bank to allow you to open an investment account because of US reporting requirements.

There is a Thai CEF fund listed in the US selling at a steep discount to NAV (click on thumbnails below).

PS the distribution rate shown on Morningstar is somewhat misleading since their distributions vary considerably ... see thumbnail #3.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Suradit69

[fletchsmile]

Before you decide to buy any Thai mutual fund, compare the performance with non-Thai funds such as Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust and ETFs such as iShares MSCI Thailand Capped ETF.

No point in paying high fees to Thai fund managers when foreign funds have lower fees and better performance.

If, indeed, you do want to "get an investment that follows SET share price, and get dividends" then the ETF almost exactly fits the bill. (It screens out shares that are basically privately held so not fairly priced in the market. In fact, it's probably better.)

There's some interesting claims in there.

1) Performance

Aberdeen Growth (Thailand) fund return from 18/7/1997 (inception) to 25/4/2014 (latest fact sheet) fund % total return is 958.21%.

(ANT Inv Trust's inception was 1987, so I've taken the longest consistent period for which data was easily available.)

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/doc.nsf/Lit/FactsheetThailandOpenABG

This compares to SET TRI of 315.4% over the same period

When I run exactly the same period rebased to 100 in THB, the share price total return of Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust comes to a little under 600. NAV fares a bit better at just over 700, but as we know on investment trusts it's the share price that counts

http://site.funddata.com/cgi-win/abergph.exe?shkey=104T&Rand=3316&startdate=18/7/1997&enddate=25/4/2014&period=0&combo=TR11535&index=

The I-shares ETF as far as I can see is a tracker. So that would have been a very poor 315% vs 958% over the period above. Aberdeen Investment Trust still falls shorts as well

2) Yield/ dividends

The yield is only 1.8% which is well below the SET index of around 3%. Someone chasing dividends could look at UOB Big Cap Div LTF which yields over 6%

http://www.newthai-trust.co.uk/pdfupload.nsf/A2F2E7EA4521885680256CA80037E7AD/$FILE/newthaimonthly.pdf?OpenElement

3) Convenience/Tax

There's a lot to be said for buying locally in Thailand in terms of convenience. Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none. Much easier for Thais to buy locally. Much easier for my wife to deal with it after my death.

4) Fees

Ongoing charges are 1.4% which is cheaper than ABG at 1.8%, so the investment trust is cheaper, but this needs to be seen in the context of total return

5) Share price discount to NAV.

This can work both ways, but an investment trust does have additional risks because of it. If you wish to sell at a time when market sentiment is very weak you could struggle to get a fair value compared to when you invested if the discount widens further.

6) Summary

As an investor in ABG since not long after inception to the present day, I'm quite happy with the Thai mutual fund's superior performance and total return compared to Abderdeen New Thai Investment Trust over my holding period. The local convenience and (possibly for some) tax elements are added bonuses of ABG over the investment trust

As for the tracker ETF, I'd have been very p****d off to have taken a tracker ETF vs the ABG Thai mutual fund over this period. on a THB 1mio investment that would have cost me about THB 6mio in returns over my holding period. I've paid a little extra fees but take away THB 10.58mio compared to THB 4.15mio. That's a huge difference.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 18, 2014 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

To OP,

there's a wide range of mutual funds and ETFs in Thailand, as you can see from Morning Star's website

http://tools.morningstarthailand.com/th/fundquickrank/default.aspx?Site=th&LanguageId=en-TH

Most banks offer Thai equity funds and or/ETFs as do securities trading companies.

If you are a tax payer here also look into Long Term Equity Funds. They are basically Thai equity funds with a tax wrapper, where you can get tax relief up to your marginal rate of tax. For a 35% tax payer this means a THB 100,000 investment costs you only THB 65,000, so you're effectively starting off with a gain of 35k on 65k, (over 50%) providing you hold it during 5 calendar years

Cheers

Fletch

[fletchsmile]

Before you decide to buy any Thai mutual fund, compare the performance with non-Thai funds such as Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust and ETFs such as iShares MSCI Thailand Capped ETF.

No point in paying high fees to Thai fund managers when foreign funds have lower fees and better performance.

If, indeed, you do want to "get an investment that follows SET share price, and get dividends" then the ETF almost exactly fits the bill. (It screens out shares that are basically privately held so not fairly priced in the market. In fact, it's probably better.)

There's some interesting claims in there.

1) Performance

Aberdeen Growth (Thailand) fund return from 18/7/1997 (inception) to 25/4/2014 (latest fact sheet) fund % total return is 958.21%.

(ANT Inv Trust's inception was 1987, so I've taken the longest consistent period for which data was easily available.)

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/doc.nsf/Lit/FactsheetThailandOpenABG

This compares to SET TRI of 315.4% over the same period

When I run exactly the same period rebased to 100 in THB, the share price total return of Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust comes to a little under 600. NAV fares a bit better at just over 700, but as we know on investment trusts it's the share price that counts

http://site.funddata.com/cgi-win/abergph.exe?shkey=104T&Rand=3316&startdate=18/7/1997&enddate=25/4/2014&period=0&combo=TR11535&index=

The I-shares ETF as far as I can see is a tracker. So that would have been a very poor 315% vs 958% over the period above. Aberdeen Investment Trust still falls shorts as well

2) Yield/ dividends

The yield is only 1.8% which is well below the SET index of around 3%. Someone chasing dividends could look at UOB Big Cap Div LTF which yields over 6%

http://www.newthai-trust.co.uk/pdfupload.nsf/A2F2E7EA4521885680256CA80037E7AD/$FILE/newthaimonthly.pdf?OpenElement

3) Convenience/Tax

There's a lot to be said for buying locally in Thailand in terms of convenience. Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none. Much easier for Thais to buy locally. Much easier for my wife to deal with it after my death.

4) Fees

Ongoing charges are 1.4% which is cheaper than ABG at 1.8%, so the investment trust is cheaper, but this needs to be seen in the context of total return

5) Share price discount to NAV.

This can work both ways, but an investment trust does have additional risks because of it. If you wish to sell at a time when market sentiment is very weak you could struggle to get a fair value compared to when you invested if the discount widens further.

6) Summary

As an investor in ABG since not long after inception to the present day, I'm quite happy with the Thai mutual fund's superior performance and total return compared to Abderdeen New Thai Investment Trust over my holding period. The local convenience and (possibly for some) tax elements are added bonuses of ABG over the investment trust

As for the tracker ETF, I'd have been very p****d off to have taken a tracker ETF vs the ABG Thai mutual fund over this period. on a THB 1mio investment that would have cost me about THB 6mio in returns over my holding period. I've paid a little extra fees but take away THB 10.58mio compared to THB 4.15mio. That's a huge difference.

Cheers

Fletch

I should have added also another reason to buy onshore if you are a Thai tax payer is the tax relief available on Thai equity funds if you buy LTFs.

Currently a THB 500k costs you effectively only THB 325k if you're a 35% tax payer. That makes a huge difference to the numbers. I can't get tax relief on investments in the 2 offshore funds you mention, so a THB 325k investment in those funds is worth only THB 325k. For the Thai mutual fund I get an automatic uplift of over 50% as my net THB 325k investment becomes worth THB 500k.

This has made a massive difference to my investment returns over the last decade since they were introduced around 2004. Aberdeen LTF has similar performance to ABG (actually better). UOB Good Corp Gov LTF, UOB Big Cap Thai Div LTF, Krungsri Div Stock LTF, are also worth a look

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 18, 2014 by fletchsmile

[AyG]

Fletch, you make many good points, but I think you're slightly twisting my words there. I wrote:

"Before you decide to buy any Thai mutual fund, compare the performance with non-Thai funds such as Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust ".

In other words, don't automatically assume that buying a Thai fund is the best thing to do. Aberdeen New Thai was simply an example; I hadn't bothered to check out how its performance stacks up against other funds.

Other points:

You wrote

"There's a lot to be said for buying locally in Thailand in terms of convenience. Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none. Much easier for Thais to buy locally. Much easier for my wife to deal with it after my death."

It may be easier for an expat to open an offshore brokerage account than to open a local one. (I'd assumed the OP was an expat living in Thailand.) There may be language difficulties and awkward bureaucracy opening an account here. As for me, I already have offshore brokerage accounts so it's definitely more convenient for me to use them than to open a new one.

"Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none."

What about the taxation of dividends? (I don't know the answer to that one.)

"As for the tracker ETF, I'd have been very p****d off to have taken a tracker ETF vs the ABG Thai mutual fund over this period."

That is with the wisdom of hindsight. (And, perhaps picking one of the best funds to cite here?) Perhaps over the next 10 years the Thai mutual fund will perform abysmally and the tracker will shine. One just can't know with any great certainty.

One also needs to ask why the mutual fund performed so well. To what extent was it taking on additional risk to enhance performance? Was it acting corruptly? Was it just lucky? Or a bit of all three?

Edited May 18, 2014 by AyG

[fletchsmile]

AyG

Sorry I wasn't intending to twist your words. Just to say there's definitely another side to what you posted. I assumed when you posted

"No point in paying high fees to Thai fund managers when foreign funds have lower fees and better performance".

and listed 2 funds. that you'd have done some homework on the numbers. So I was interested to see how the investment trust stacked up as I'm always on the lookout for new investments that may be better. I'm always open to the idea of offshore funds if I can find better than onshore. To date I haven't managed to for Thailand. As a general rule the best fund managers in Thai equities tend to be in Thailand which makes sense when you think about it.

I chose ABG as it's the first fund I bought here in Thailand, and the one I've held for longest. Also interesting to compare an offshore and onshore fund from the same global fund management company in different countries. For me these are therefore real numbers over a decade or so, and highlight the big differences that can arise. There was no need for cherry picking as if it hadn't outperformed over such a long period of time I wouldn't be still holding it, and would already have sold. There'd have to be a very good reason to hold a fund for more than 10 years that has consistently underperformed.

In terms of reasons for outperformance vs index it hasn't been taking significant extra risks. There's strong governance in place, and 17 years is a long time to be lucky. Comes down to a good fund management company adding alpha for a variety of reasons. The gap has been closing over the years though as the market matures and better competition comes in.

Getting started here is quite easy for most nationalities - Americans being an exception.

On the tax side for dividends you can elect to receive them with no withholding tax deducted and then pay tax at your marginal rate or suffer a flat 10% with no additional tax to pay. I've done both. Generally though if you took two identical funds 1) accummulation units which don't pay a div 2) div paying income units, you'll be better off with accumulation units because you don't suffer WHT and there's no capital gains. So just sell 3% of your fund instead of buying a fund with a 3% div yield. When you enter the phase of regularly drawing income though, the div units can be convenient though.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 18, 2014 by fletchsmile

[BlackJack]

I am keen on India however the fees on this one seem very high

anyone found another India fund with less fees and good returns

not off topic as they are funds from Thailand base

fund

[fletchsmile]

I am keen on India however the fees on this one seem very high

anyone found another India fund with less fees and good returns

not off topic as they are funds from Thailand base

fund

Not sure which fund you are referring to BlackJack as the link just goes thru to Morningstar rather than a specific fund. When you filter it for "india" though 5 funds come up. Sorting by long term performance I wasn't surprised to see Aberdeen's name there, if you look at the longest annualised period listed (3 years). It also has the highest star rating of all 5.

This is the first one I would have said check out from the top of my head, if you're buying from Thailand. Then if you look at the fact sheet:

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/doc.nsf/Lit/FactsheetThailandOpenABIG

Discrete performance top quartile 3 times in last 4 years. Top quartile over 3 and 5 years. Yes a bit expensive on fees., but then again in the overall picture it is regularly outperforming its peers as well as benchmarks

Here's a cut and paste from Hargreaves Lansdown's website. If buying from them in UK you'd get initial fees largely discounted to zero. I don't hold any of them myself, but know Jupiter India has a good reputation, tho I haven't really looked into it. Doesn't paste nicely but you could see the names if you wanted to research further,

or try:

http://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results?investment=india&companyid=&sectorid=&sort=az&tab=prices

Aberdeen Global Indian Equity (R GBP) (Acc) 1,113.01 +14.28 1.00% More information View factsheet for Aberdeen Global Indian Equity (R GBP) View chart for Aberdeen Global Indian Equity (R GBP) Invest in Aberdeen Global Indian Equity (R GBP)

ACPI India Fixed Income (C3 GBP) (Acc) 8,124.00 -2.00 7.77% More information View factsheet for ACPI India Fixed Income (C3 GBP) View chart for ACPI India Fixed Income (C3 GBP) Invest in ACPI India Fixed Income (C3 GBP)

Baring India (Class I GBP) (Inc) 1,221.00 +17.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for Baring India (Class I GBP) View chart for Baring India (Class I GBP) Invest in Baring India (Class I GBP)

BlackRock Global India (D4RF GBP) (Inc) 1,502.00 +23.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for BlackRock Global India (D4RF GBP) View chart for BlackRock Global India (D4RF GBP) Invest in BlackRock Global India (D4RF GBP)

Fidelity India Focus (Y GBP) (Inc) 129.90 +1.70 0.00% More information View factsheet for Fidelity India Focus (Y GBP) View chart for Fidelity India Focus (Y GBP) Invest in Fidelity India Focus (Y GBP)

Franklin India (W GBP) (Acc) 1,313.00 +22.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for Franklin India (W GBP) View chart for Franklin India (W GBP) Invest in Franklin India (W GBP)

HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) (Acc) 1,113.40 +3.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) View chart for HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) Invest in HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP)

HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) (Inc) 1,113.40 +3.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) View chart for HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) Invest in HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP)

JPM India (C USD) (Acc) 1,724.74 +14.23 0.00% More information View factsheet for JPM India (C USD) View chart for JPM India (C USD) Invest in JPM India (C USD)

JPM India (C USD) (Inc) 6,391.26 +52.84 0.00% More information View factsheet for JPM India (C USD) View chart for JPM India (C USD) Invest in JPM India (C USD)

Jupiter India (Class I) (Acc)

69.47 69.83 +1.50 0.60% More information View factsheet for Jupiter India (Class I) View chart for Jupiter India (Class I) Invest in Jupiter India (Class I)

Matthews India (I) (Acc) 998.00 +23.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for Matthews India (I) View chart for Matthews India (I) Invest in Matthews India (I)

Neptune India (Class C) (Acc) 133.20 +1.10 0.00% More information View factsheet for Neptune India (Class C) View chart for Neptune India (Class C) Invest in Neptune India (Class C)

Pictet Indian Equities (I GBP) (Acc) 23,470.00 +255.00 0.00%

BTW If costs is your main factor, IShares as usual do a low cost ETF

Cheers

Fletch

[fletchsmile]

I am keen on India however the fees on this one seem very high

anyone found another India fund with less fees and good returns

not off topic as they are funds from Thailand base

fund

Not sure which fund you are referring to BlackJack as the link just goes thru to Morningstar rather than a specific fund. When you filter it for "india" though 5 funds come up. Sorting by long term performance I wasn't surprised to see Aberdeen's name there, if you look at the longest annualised period listed (3 years). It also has the highest star rating of all 5.

This is the first one I would have said check out from the top of my head, if you're buying from Thailand. Then if you look at the fact sheet:

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/doc.nsf/Lit/FactsheetThailandOpenABIG

Discrete performance top quartile 3 times in last 4 years. Top quartile over 3 and 5 years. Yes a bit expensive on fees., but then again in the overall picture it is regularly outperforming its peers as well as benchmarks

Here's a cut and paste from Hargreaves Lansdown's website. If buying from them in UK you'd get initial fees largely discounted to zero. I don't hold any of them myself, but know Jupiter India has a good reputation, tho I haven't really looked into it. Doesn't paste nicely but you could see the names if you wanted to research further,

or try:

http://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results?investment=india&companyid=&sectorid=&sort=az&tab=prices

Aberdeen Global Indian Equity (R GBP) (Acc) 1,113.01 +14.28 1.00% More information View factsheet for Aberdeen Global Indian Equity (R GBP) View chart for Aberdeen Global Indian Equity (R GBP) Invest in Aberdeen Global Indian Equity (R GBP)

ACPI India Fixed Income (C3 GBP) (Acc) 8,124.00 -2.00 7.77% More information View factsheet for ACPI India Fixed Income (C3 GBP) View chart for ACPI India Fixed Income (C3 GBP) Invest in ACPI India Fixed Income (C3 GBP)

Baring India (Class I GBP) (Inc) 1,221.00 +17.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for Baring India (Class I GBP) View chart for Baring India (Class I GBP) Invest in Baring India (Class I GBP)

BlackRock Global India (D4RF GBP) (Inc) 1,502.00 +23.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for BlackRock Global India (D4RF GBP) View chart for BlackRock Global India (D4RF GBP) Invest in BlackRock Global India (D4RF GBP)

Fidelity India Focus (Y GBP) (Inc) 129.90 +1.70 0.00% More information View factsheet for Fidelity India Focus (Y GBP) View chart for Fidelity India Focus (Y GBP) Invest in Fidelity India Focus (Y GBP)

Franklin India (W GBP) (Acc) 1,313.00 +22.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for Franklin India (W GBP) View chart for Franklin India (W GBP) Invest in Franklin India (W GBP)

HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) (Acc) 1,113.40 +3.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) View chart for HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) Invest in HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP)

HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) (Inc) 1,113.40 +3.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) View chart for HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP) Invest in HSBC GIF Indian Equity (B GBP)

JPM India (C USD) (Acc) 1,724.74 +14.23 0.00% More information View factsheet for JPM India (C USD) View chart for JPM India (C USD) Invest in JPM India (C USD)

JPM India (C USD) (Inc) 6,391.26 +52.84 0.00% More information View factsheet for JPM India (C USD) View chart for JPM India (C USD) Invest in JPM India (C USD)

Jupiter India (Class I) (Acc)

69.47 69.83 +1.50 0.60% More information View factsheet for Jupiter India (Class I) View chart for Jupiter India (Class I) Invest in Jupiter India (Class I)

Matthews India (I) (Acc) 998.00 +23.00 0.00% More information View factsheet for Matthews India (I) View chart for Matthews India (I) Invest in Matthews India (I)

Neptune India (Class C) (Acc) 133.20 +1.10 0.00% More information View factsheet for Neptune India (Class C) View chart for Neptune India (Class C) Invest in Neptune India (Class C)

Pictet Indian Equities (I GBP) (Acc) 23,470.00 +255.00 0.00%

BTW If costs is your main factor, IShares as usual do a low cost ETF

Cheers

Fletch

[fletchsmile]

Just on the India question. I'd add that personally I've been moving away from single country funds. You need to keep much more of an eye on them and be more active. The problem is, when that country is struggling there's nowhere else for the fund manager to go.

I prefer a more diversified emerging markets fund, then the fund manager can move around where the opportunities are, and get out completely of particularly countries when the time is right. i.e you can leave it to them more. Not to mention the diversification

One of my favourites is Aberdeen Growth:

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/doc.nsf/Lit/FactsheetThailandOpenABGEM

Good performance statsand again solid company

I hold versions of this thru UK, Singapore and Thailand

The biggest exception for me tho when I say I've moved away from single funds is single country Thailand funds. There are obvious reasons in addition to tax benefits on some like RMFs and LTFs.

The biggest factor though is I treat Thailand as "home". Hence like a UK investor has a core UK equity holdings, US investor has core US holdings etc. India tho' for me is an overseas / foreign market, whereas Thailand his home.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 23, 2014 by fletchsmile

[BlackJack]

Thanks

but i was referring to these top 2

Name Fund Code Morningstar
Rating
Overall
Morningstar®
Category YTD
Return
% กองทุนเปิดเค อินเดีย หุ้นทุน K-INDIA - Asia Pacific ex-Japan Equity 25.13 10.6173 22/05/2557 กองทุนเปิดเค มีน่า หุ้นทุน K-MENA Emerging Market Equity 24.86 8.0598 22/05/2557

year to date return 25.13%

and with the new government elected things should be on the up

but the fees - one says up to 3% performance fees

link here http://www.kasikornasset.com/en/pages/K-INDIA.aspx

and K-Mena (middle east and Africa) has up to 3% upfront and up to 3% management plus plus

http://www.kasikornasset.com/EN/Pages/K-MENA.aspx

Just looking for a fund without all the "up to" as this leave quiet a margin for these managers.

regards

[fletchsmile]

Thanks

but i was referring to these top 2

Name Fund Code Morningstar

Rating

Overall

Morningstar®

Category YTD

Return

% กองทุนเปิดเค อินเดีย หุ้นทุน K-INDIA - Asia Pacific ex-Japan Equity 25.13 10.6173 22/05/2557 กองทุนเปิดเค มีน่า หุ้นทุน K-MENA Emerging Market Equity 24.86 8.0598 22/05/2557

year to date return 25.13%

and with the new government elected things should be on the up

but the fees - one says up to 3% performance fees

link here http://www.kasikornasset.com/en/pages/K-INDIA.aspx

and K-Mena (middle east and Africa) has up to 3% upfront and up to 3% management plus plus

http://www.kasikornasset.com/EN/Pages/K-MENA.aspx

Just looking for a fund without all the "up to" as this leave quiet a margin for these managers.

regards

On fees they say up to 3%. Both of them have actuals of 1.5% which is reasonable for Thailand though. Particularly given the market, as you'd have trouble accessing these markets efficiently to trade yourself. Yes you can get cheaper thru UK or US but if buying from Thailand for convenience and avoiding transfering money to UK or US, then it's fine.

The 3 % is just what is authorised under the funds rules and regulations and is common practice. It just allows them from a governance perspective to increase if circumstances warranted without the admin of unit holder approval. In practice it would be something unusual to for them to double fees, and the existing 1.5% is more likely to continue. So I wouldn't worry about the "up to". The 1.5% is key.

From these links:

The K-India fund is one of the 5 India funds listed in Morninstar mentioned above. Having looked at the fact sheet, I still prefer Aberdeen. The K-India is best performer over 1 year, but I wouldn't like to base choices on a single year. Also if you base on 1 year perf that could just be a case of the underlying portfolio being in the right sector for that year, which may not be the best sector looking forward as it may have peaked. I prefer several years consistent discrete years performance plus cumulatively longer periods. Worth noting India has had a good run already this year with Sensex up around 17% and up 25% over 1 year

It doesn't yet have a 3 year performance. Aberdeen has a longer history and higher over 3 years (would prefer 5), plus 4 star. Also following thru the fund to K-website, it's a feeder into UTI India fund. I don't recognise the name, so prefer Aberdeen as it's a quality fund management house.

The K-MENA fund looks interesting. A few years back I was looking for MENA expsoure but couldn't find many funds and not in Thailand. I ended up buying via Singapore and UK. It's a feeder into a Schroders fund. Schroders are a quality asset manager {I used to work for them nearly 20 years back - so always look out for the name }. Long term MENA has large potential, I particularly like the NA side as a frontier market. So on a cursory look, it seems worth exploring with decent history, fund manager and relative performance.

It's something I'll look into further for myself as well, and check out the underlying Schroder fund. Possibly something I'll add into the kids' portfolios, given they are looking out 15 years.

That's one of the reasons I follow these posts as they can generate ideas. So thanks for the lead

Edited May 24, 2014 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

BlackJack

BTW you may come across UOB's (ING) BRIC fund in your search. The underlying investment is an ETF:

SPDR S&P BRIC 40 ETF (BIK)

I bought it a couple of years back to get exposure to the 4 BRICs - mainly buying for the kids from Thailand, as there wasn't much choice here. I dumped it this year, as performance didn't meet expectations, and I re-invested the proceeds in Aberdeen Em Growth - versions of which I've held in UK etc for much longer.

This re-inforces my view of how an active managed fund can provide superior performance to a simple tracker or ETF in Emerging Markets

While looking for low cost ETFs because of charges and the old adage of "most active funds don't beat the index" may be relevant in the US and developed markets, for EMs my own experience and research has left me much better off going with active funds in EMs if you do the research like you're doing. So for EMs focus more on consistent net returns from good fund managers with strong histories.

So if UOB (formerly ING) BRIC hits your radar like the MENA and the India ones I'd say look elsewhere for better value than UOB BRIC

Cheers

Fletch

[maphraw]

I bought the Krungsri Star Equity Dividend Fund (KFSEQ-D) about 11 years ago. It Has performed reasonably well and pays a very good dividend. I opened the account at their head office in Bangkok. It's a joint account with my Thai wife. They transfer the dividend into our Krungsri savings account. The dividend is tax free, up until now anyway. Morning Star gives it a good rating. But the good dividend has really impressed me. I have been hoping that with the Coup the SET will tank in which case I will but more shares.

[fletchsmile]

I bought the Krungsri Star Equity Dividend Fund (KFSEQ-D) about 11 years ago. It Has performed reasonably well and pays a very good dividend. I opened the account at their head office in Bangkok. It's a joint account with my Thai wife. They transfer the dividend into our Krungsri savings account. The dividend is tax free, up until now anyway. Morning Star gives it a good rating. But the good dividend has really impressed me. I have been hoping that with the Coup the SET will tank in which case I will but more shares.

Just so you're aware, the dividend isn't necessarily tax free. It sounds like they have just set it up so there is no witholding tax deducted.

On dividends: The choice is a flat 10% deduction or to have no tax deducted and include it in other income in your income tax calc at year end.

For the latter you're supposed to include it in your tax return/cal, but you do have a personal allowance and then a band on which there is 0% tax. Above that though you'd be paying tax.

http://www.set.or.th/en/regulations/tax/tax_p1.html

Cheers

Fletch

[maphraw]

I work in Thailand and my employer gives me some tax forms every year to take down to the tax office. I give the tax office the forms, a copy of my passport, a copy of my marriage certificate so I can declare my wife as a deduction and they then do the calculations and complete the forms. ( a copy of which I need to renew my work permit and visa). I have never claimed the dividends that I earn from my mutual fund. My wife said they are tax free so as to encourage people to invest in the economy and I don't need to declare them. Not only that but a colleague of mine said if you invest up to a certain amount in a mutual fund, probably a stock fund, you can get a substantial deduction on any taxes you might owe. I am not claiming to be an expert on any of this. I could be terribly negligent in not declaring my dividends from my mutual fund but I do not think so. Anyone have any experience with this?

[fletchsmile]

The funds you can get deductions for are LTFs and RMFs.

Suggesr you read the link above from the SET on tax. Would be good for your wife to read too there is a Thai version also

For the forms your employer does mine does similar. Your employer doesnt normally include investment income or rental income or bank interest etc only income related to employment.

They can and do however adjust for LTF and RMF allowances and you can talk to them about how to do that.

Cheers

Fletch

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BuffaloRescue]

Before you decide to buy any Thai mutual fund, compare the performance with non-Thai funds such as Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust and ETFs such as iShares MSCI Thailand Capped ETF.

No point in paying high fees to Thai fund managers when foreign funds have lower fees and better performance.

If, indeed, you do want to "get an investment that follows SET share price, and get dividends" then the ETF almost exactly fits the bill. (It screens out shares that are basically privately held so not fairly priced in the market. In fact, it's probably better.)

There's some interesting claims in there.

1) Performance

Aberdeen Growth (Thailand) fund return from 18/7/1997 (inception) to 25/4/2014 (latest fact sheet) fund % total return is 958.21%.

(ANT Inv Trust's inception was 1987, so I've taken the longest consistent period for which data was easily available.)

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/doc.nsf/Lit/FactsheetThailandOpenABG

This compares to SET TRI of 315.4% over the same period

When I run exactly the same period rebased to 100 in THB, the share price total return of Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust comes to a little under 600. NAV fares a bit better at just over 700, but as we know on investment trusts it's the share price that counts

http://site.funddata.com/cgi-win/abergph.exe?shkey=104T&Rand=3316&startdate=18/7/1997&enddate=25/4/2014&period=0&combo=TR11535&index=

The I-shares ETF as far as I can see is a tracker. So that would have been a very poor 315% vs 958% over the period above. Aberdeen Investment Trust still falls shorts as well

2) Yield/ dividends

The yield is only 1.8% which is well below the SET index of around 3%. Someone chasing dividends could look at UOB Big Cap Div LTF which yields over 6%

http://www.newthai-trust.co.uk/pdfupload.nsf/A2F2E7EA4521885680256CA80037E7AD/$FILE/newthaimonthly.pdf?OpenElement

3) Convenience/Tax

There's a lot to be said for buying locally in Thailand in terms of convenience. Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none. Much easier for Thais to buy locally. Much easier for my wife to deal with it after my death.

4) Fees

Ongoing charges are 1.4% which is cheaper than ABG at 1.8%, so the investment trust is cheaper, but this needs to be seen in the context of total return

5) Share price discount to NAV.

This can work both ways, but an investment trust does have additional risks because of it. If you wish to sell at a time when market sentiment is very weak you could struggle to get a fair value compared to when you invested if the discount widens further.

6) Summary

As an investor in ABG since not long after inception to the present day, I'm quite happy with the Thai mutual fund's superior performance and total return compared to Abderdeen New Thai Investment Trust over my holding period. The local convenience and (possibly for some) tax elements are added bonuses of ABG over the investment trust

As for the tracker ETF, I'd have been very p****d off to have taken a tracker ETF vs the ABG Thai mutual fund over this period. on a THB 1mio investment that would have cost me about THB 6mio in returns over my holding period. I've paid a little extra fees but take away THB 10.58mio compared to THB 4.15mio. That's a huge difference.

Cheers

Fletch

Thanks

Seeing as im living here im not tax resident in my home country. So if i buy locally they simply remove the tax before paying me, correct? Nice and easy from an accounting persepective. ABG can buy from kasikorn?

[steve gecko]

Yuysqnnxxyqnnjhngnvhvon

[topt]

Yuysqnnxxyqnnjhngnvhvon

Nonsense reply to a relatively dead thread from a new poster - where's the report button gone...............

[steve gecko]

Report me for a pocket message haha ok go on then is it against rules for one iPhone working in my pocket if so I'm guilty ha ha

[steve gecko]

Absolute mug

[Time Traveller]

Before you decide to buy any Thai mutual fund, compare the performance with non-Thai funds such as Aberdeen New Thai Investment Trust and ETFs such as iShares MSCI Thailand Capped ETF.

No point in paying high fees to Thai fund managers when foreign funds have lower fees and better performance.

What are you talking about? Thai fees are always lower than foreign fund manager fees for Thai Equities.

Only an idiot would buy a Thai equities fund offshore, when you can get the same thing in Thailand for lower fees. And only some with a vested interest would advise someone to do that.

[Time Traveller]

Fletch, you make many good points, but I think you're slightly twisting my words there. I wrote:

"There's a lot to be said for buying locally in Thailand in terms of convenience. Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none. Much easier for Thais to buy locally. Much easier for my wife to deal with it after my death."

It may be easier for an expat to open an offshore brokerage account than to open a local one. (I'd assumed the OP was an expat living in Thailand.) There may be language difficulties and awkward bureaucracy opening an account here. As for me, I already have offshore brokerage accounts so it's definitely more convenient for me to use them than to open a new one.

"Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none."

What about the taxation of dividends? (I don't know the answer to that one.)

Ayg, sounds like you've never even bought Thai shares.

Opening a brokerage account is easy and commisions are very low. Typically 0.15% of trade value. Try buying Thai stocks from an offshore account and you'll probably be paying upwards from $50 to $100 per trade.

Secondly, Thai dividends are taxed at 10% withholding. However, if you live locally and are a tax resident you can file a tax return to claim back the 10% + any tax credits from corporate income taxes the company has paid. So it's possible a 6%yield turns into a 7.5% yield with the tax credits. This is not possible through an offshore account or if you hold NVDRs instead of the actuall shares.

[Time Traveller]

Fletch, you make many good points, but I think you're slightly twisting my words there. I wrote:

"There's a lot to be said for buying locally in Thailand in terms of convenience. Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none. Much easier for Thais to buy locally. Much easier for my wife to deal with it after my death."

It may be easier for an expat to open an offshore brokerage account than to open a local one. (I'd assumed the OP was an expat living in Thailand.) There may be language difficulties and awkward bureaucracy opening an account here. As for me, I already have offshore brokerage accounts so it's definitely more convenient for me to use them than to open a new one.

"Also very easy from a (capital gains) tax perspective as there is none."

What about the taxation of dividends? (I don't know the answer to that one.)

Ayg, sounds like you've never even bought Thai shares.

Opening a brokerage account is easy and commisions are very low. Typically 0.15% of trade value. Try buying Thai stocks from an offshore account and you'll probably be paying upwards from $50 to $100 per trade.

Secondly, Thai dividends are taxed at 10% withholding. However, if you live locally and are a tax resident you can file a tax return to claim back the 10% + any tax credits from corporate income taxes the company has paid. So it's possible a 6%yield turns into a 7.5% yield with the tax credits. This is not possible through an offshore account or if you hold NVDRs instead of the actuall shares.

[BuffaloRescue]

Absolute mug

why this pointless contribution, care to elaborate?