International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[Mackie]

Scathing article in today's New York Times..

What do you think how much money did cost to publish that rubbish in NYT? It didn't come cheap. But dear leader is known to have deep pockets. He can continue wasting his own money, the gig in Thailand is over. His clique will not be wasting Thai tax payer money any longer.

Anyway NYT, CNN, BBC lost all credibility in 2010. Many of us were here and witness first hand what was going on. Their reporting back then was nothing short of disgrace. Nothing changed.

So know you believe that Thaksin has bribed the NYT to say what he wants. Alice in Sunderland time again.

I'm sorry, but it isn't my fault that you are ignorant and not aware of the well known fact that Thaksin employed a number of PR agencies to push his agenda through the western media. It's a fact which could be easily verified. There is really no excuse for your mental laziness.

[sumtingwong]

.

Food for thought.

Civilian interest vs. military interest.

Anybody else see a patter?

Commie DemoniKKK-rat FDR gave Russia Eastern Europe,

Commie DemoniKKK-rat Truman gave Russia N. Korea,

Commie DemoniKKK-rat Dimmy Carter gave China the Panama Canal

Commie DemoniKKK-rat Obama gave China the Moon & Russia Crimea.

Whose side are they on?

[rwdrwdrwd]

Scathing article in today's New York Times..

And factually incorrect, entirely missing out the part where PPP were in government post 2006 and how they came to be removed from it.

Regardless, the army has already stated that they are aware of international viewpoints, but interpret the situation differently - what the NYT thinks is entirely irrelevant - time to accept and move on prbkk.

[inutil]

The PTP working along side it's insurgent group the UDD staged a coup 60 seconds after the 2011 election results. The army understanding that this regime funded by an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist and convicted criminal fugitive who is unelectable and manipulated the democratic process to try to abuse the weaknesses in democracy is not very democratic. Of course international condemnation is expected because they do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksin's "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London. thaksin highjacked democracy in 2011. That is when the coup happened.

I am old fashioned and believe good will always prevail over evil and I take great satisfaction in knowing that through the hard work of General Preyuth that thaksin will no longer be a threat to democracy. Rest assured the new constitution will have clauses in it to ensure that unelected criminal elements from overseas cannot "pull the strings" so to speak.

The Thai military and 70% of the populace recognized this return to democracy is in fact the first step in a better Thailand that Thai's has yearned for 3 years and this is reversing the coup that happened in 2011. It is a revolution by the majority of the population. 70% in fact.

Farmers paid, no more deaths of innocent PDRC protestors by red shirts, reform and democracy to follow. Of course there are the bitter few that reject this, but at least the majority don't have to listen to that minority under the current martial law. Even the radical red shirt leaders are on board with this revolution now.

Well done General Preyuth. At 4 deaths and 60 injuries a month over the past 6 months you have already saved 1 persons life and 15 from being injured.

Can it be that it was all so simple then?

There was chatter on here about people getting talking points from Robert Amsterdam before. Not sure that was true but I can usually spot the influence of Tony Cartalucci. Anyway, you are entitled to your point of view. Others have spent considerable time reading about Thai history and talking to people on both sides, attempting to figure out what's really going on, trying to avoid giving in to easy assumptions and prejudices. Once you've done that it's much harder to see things in the black & white, manichean way that you do. Anyway, I can't speak for others, but I'm not bitter. Just concerned. And if I was able, I'd spell out my concerns and provide precedents from Thai history. However, I've just seen Craig's post and as there's a high chance this would contravene Thaivisa's understandable policy on political comments atm, I'm unable to do so.

Maybe in a few years time or hopefully much sooner, we'll be able to discuss this openly again and decide whether the optimists had it right. I actually hope they do because the alternative isn't pretty. Also I've just noticed that one of the people who has been silently reading* in Bangkok in the last few days is Somchai Neelapaijit's daughter. Interesting woman. She's got every reason to hate Thaksin given the tragic death of her father, and she probably does. Yet she's been able to put that hatred to one side and stand up for the principles she believes in. That's courage. That's conviction. This in itself is an example of things being more complicated than many seem to believe.

*There are some people silently reading books in Bangkok at present, standing near each other, but not together, just silently reading books. I would normally post a picture of Somchai's daughter reading, widely shared on Twitter/FB etc but, as above, erring on the side of caution.

And rest assured those people reading the books make up a 25% minority that DON'T support the coup ergo DON'T support reconciliation.

They will be left behind.

We are living in a state that has banned any talk that can be twisted to be against the Junta and it's coup.

The survey that said 75% of the people supported the Coup must be true and as you say that the people who said that they did support the coup are against reconciliation then that must be true as well. there is only one truth under the Military Junta.

That survey was carried out BEFORE the coup was underway. At that point it was martial law and many red supporters would have been quietly optimistic that since the caretaker government was still in place, the enactment of martial law would have finally led to free, fair and above all, secure elections.

As for me personally, its been a week and a half and no ones been shot (to my knowledge - media blackout et al). So naturally my position as a pro-democrat is softening. Theres been some positive sounds thus far in a few places. Some i genuinely detest as well. But the upshot is that if it continues as such, the general will be regarded as a hero. If it does take a turn for the worse and the guns turn on predominantly one section of society (and a section that has a genuine right to feel aggrieved at the changes by the way) then my tune (as will the tune of most moderate red supporters) will likely change. The jury (by which i mean me in this instance) is still out of course.

[Dr Bruce]

Scathing article in today's New York Times..

And factually incorrect, entirely missing out the part where PPP were in government post 2006 and how they came to be removed from it.

Regardless, the army has already stated that they are aware of international viewpoints, but interpret the situation differently - what the NYT thinks is entirely irrelevant - time to accept and move on prbkk.

They did not miss it, they talk of how there have been five (5) elected governments removed since Thaksin first came to power. I think that it get to double figures before Thailand is free and democratic.

Under the present rules I must say that Coups are good. So well done Army we have no news of anythink wrong yet.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Scathing article in today's New York Times..

And factually incorrect, entirely missing out the part where PPP were in government post 2006 and how they came to be removed from it.

Regardless, the army has already stated that they are aware of international viewpoints, but interpret the situation differently - what the NYT thinks is entirely irrelevant - time to accept and move on prbkk.

They did not miss it, they talk of how there have been five (5) elected governments removed since Thaksin first came to power. I think that it get to double figures before Thailand is free and democratic.

Under the present rules I must say that Coups are good. So well done Army we have no news of anythink wrong yet.

Think I must have read a different article, the one I saw was extremely short in a sidebar - less than 200 words. Skipped straight from 2006 to Dem govt and 2010 protests. Dangerously the paper was given out to people flying in to Thailand.

[Crushdepth]

A bit funny how things twist and turn.

At one time it was said that Thaksin was pushing for a coup so then he could blame them for PTP downfall.

Now at last we have some sort of order and reform +investigations, it has been twisted around. Thaksin pushing the reds to make problems shot themselves in the foot. LOVELY.

The only memory I have of anybody saying that Thaksin wanted anything like a coup was when the fascists were trying to blame him for the fake bomb attacks that always seem to destroy the toilets.

Thaksin would never want a coup, there was only one side that wanted to do away with democracy in this great land. Now we have a Junta that has promised reforms to the constitution that they wrote in 2007 and the people were never allowed to change.

I expect that the Junta will do a better job this time and we will have a rock-solid set of laws that will achieve the desired aims.

Oh don't be nieve. Faced with a hopeless situation, the coup makes Thaksin's opponents look bad and gives him ammunition for the next round. It's a better way to go out than being exposed and flushed down the toilet by the court system.

Poor Thaksin, he's a victim.

[citizen33]

Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister, John Baird, releases statement on Thailand.

www.international.gc.ca/media/aff/news-communiques/2014/05/29a.aspx

[fab4]

Scathing article in today's New York Times..

And factually incorrect, entirely missing out the part where PPP were in government post 2006 and how they came to be removed from it.

Regardless, the army has already stated that they are aware of international viewpoints, but interpret the situation differently - what the NYT thinks is entirely irrelevant - time to accept and move on prbkk.

Not a problem. Gen. Prayuth is going to have a weekly TV show where he will discuss the work done by his "administration" in the previous week and "clarify issues in the public interest" - but he won't be answering questions............................

[debcmai]

......................"where the usual suspects post increasingly "imaginative" polemic or unrelenting adoration"......................................

And this from one of the worst red propagandists ever to post on TV, (under various noms-de-plume)

I foresee a forum where the nasty, condescending red lovers are too frightened to post. Cannot wait !

I hope I'm not the only one to find this comment very chilling.

chilling indeed

[inutil]

disgusting possibly, but thats what the report post button is for

[djjamie]

Scathing article in today's New York Times..

And factually incorrect, entirely missing out the part where PPP were in government post 2006 and how they came to be removed from it.

Regardless, the army has already stated that they are aware of international viewpoints, but interpret the situation differently - what the NYT thinks is entirely irrelevant - time to accept and move on prbkk.

Not a problem. Gen. Prayuth is going to have a weekly TV show where he will discuss the work done by his "administration" in the previous week and "clarify issues in the public interest" - but he won't be answering questions............................

So he could call it "Meet the People" which had the same format as you described when yingluck did it.

I appreciate reading one of your posts too that did not belittle or condescend anyone.

Well done. General Preyuth's reconciliation message has even got to you...

See, he is making progress if you can post a comment without attacking or be condescending and belittling to anyway.

Bravo to you and the General.

[englishoak]

Given there are restrictions on certain subjects, going into detail or even criticising here atm dont think for one second its all good.... that is the only face allowed to be shown and the only news will be a big up,

If you were here in 06 you will or should remember how everything was sweetness and light once the military took over. just like now. However years on it became very clear and is accepted now it was a total disaster. Those players havnt changed much this time around , we should bare that in mind

Try to have at least in mind all we will see are pro coup stuff ... nothing bad will be reported as its not allowed. It dosnt make for any balance when all you will get is one side of the story whilst the other side is banned under pain of incarceration.

Now some can rubbish the world press but its not just the world press reporting there is a swathe of independent and alternative media out there. Stop acting like a thai and pretending here is the only place you will get any accuracy... i mean come on accuracy and top journalism from the Thai media ? seriously what countries do you hail from to believe that ?

Dont rely on Thai media alone for news it is constrained by the rules atm. And dont assume everything that fits with your own personal preferred opinion is all there is to it or true... People see what they want to see and believe what reinforces their own bias... its human nature. but do not for one second suppose its all black and white.

Please do try to stop being sheeple and believing every rumour or claim you hear to be true just because youd like it to be or told it is by some authority. Thats how propaganda works

[sumtingwong]

Said the propagandist.

[inutil]

See, there goes the issue. He makes a fair point. Its laden with fear and genuine trouble at power being concentrated in an unaccountable body. These are not irrational concerns. And were this your home nation (where you COULD NOT just get on a plane and leave), you might feel differently at the end of the day about this whole situation... but its not happening to YOU, its happening to people who dont have a passport allowing them free access to a completely different country and that makes this something far more distant and abstract ultimately to almost EVERYONE posting on this messageboard. People are in genuine fear of their ACTUAL (not virtual) lives due to POTENTIAL associations. Crimes are moving from legal-rational accountability to trial by military... which does not have the safeguards and burden of proof that civil courts have. There is reason, genuine reason to worry and fear for the future. Its a tenuous line. And if you cant see this, or if you think a few innocent people being locked up or summarily executed by mistake from dodgy evidence or paid informants is a price worth paying, then you and I wont ever see eye to eye on this matter.

I believe in due process. I believe in the rule of law and the burden of proof, and i believe in democracy for all. As im sure englishoak does. To deny that these have been abandoned in key functions without accountability through legislation and parliamentary democracy would be absurd. Say whatever you like about whether its a 'real' democracy, i couldnt care less (though id remind you that the EC and the democrat party both agreed that the outcome was 'fair' whether that 'fairness; is a quiet and tacit admission that all parties participated in corrupt practices or not), but to deny that the burden of proof has been changed and that people are beng arbitrarily detained based upon political affiliation is simply to be willfuly selective in your interpretation of events. Troubling things are happening to THAI people. Not to you. To THAI people based on their political affiliation. The question is whether this will end up beyond a tipping point. Right now it isnt. But right now there is to all intents and purposes a media blackout, so information is sketchy. The long and short of it is that im quietly optimistic and i genuinely from the bottom of my heart hope for a peaceful return to democracy. And i can remain hopeful because as of now, there is yet to be a genuine flashpoint. Long may the relative calm and peace continue.

[VegasVic]

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Dear Sumting, At no time did anyone in the U.S. government including Sec. Kerry ever say that the withdrawing of $10 million in aid would detrimental or somehow onerous to Thailand, it is simply the law in the U.S. that once a Democratically elected government is overthrown that aid be recinded As far as "brands" of Democracy go as you put it I was not aware that there were different "brands", Democracy as I have always understood it is one vote for every citizen, which BTW is something that herr suthep has a hard time getting his head around. What you fail to realize in your tunnel visioned little world is that if the entire shin clan were to dissappear tomorrow, it would not make you happy because whatever party formed in the vacuum of the diposed shinawatras it would defeat whatever party the Bangkok elite and southern muslims put up, and that my friend is called Democracy alt=thumbsup.gif>

Those are Somkiat Onwimon words, not mine. Jane 'Fonda Kerry is a fool and a traitor. The USA only allowed land owners to vote when it became a country.

The PTP never got a majority vote.

[ In reality, of the 74% of Thais that turned out to vote on July 3, 2011, only 48% actually cast votes for Peua Thai (PTP). Of all eligible voters, that is a tenuous 35% mandate, hardly what can be called “decisively backed.” ]

In multiparty elections like in Thailand and elsewhere in the world, a 48% share of votes cast is a massive landslide my friend The fact that it is not "the majority vote" as you put it is a red herring, and casting the net out to all those who didn't even participate in the electoral process to try and skew your percentages is sadder yet Yes the U.S. has evolved in its democratic process since the nations inception nearly 240 years ago (as DeTouqueville predicted), however we are not debating history here my friend, but rather representative Democracy in the current times and I feel that you either have a grave misunderstanding of the Thai electorate or else you are in lock step with herr suthep in the feeling that the "buffolos" who reside in the Thai countryside don't derserve the vote. Either way you are on the wrong side of the future for Thailand alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20>

I put that in [ ] because that is from another article. So you believe that if 100 parties run candidates and 1 of them get 5% or the vote aand the other 99 get an equal split of the remainder votes, you consider that a landslide mandate for your party to be a democratic dictator and they are above the laws and above the constitution and above the monarchy and have a get oput of jail free card for anything they do until they are voted out. You have a communist view of the definition of democracy.

Once again you throw out ridiculous numbers and percentages in an attempt to further skew the facts of the situation. There is an old saying in the accounting business that comes to mind for people like you my friend "liars can figure but figures don't lie" Now back to the actual facts, there were multiple parties running candidates for election in Thailand and PTP won 48% of all votes cast, and that was indeed a landslide by any metric As for me, I am an unadulterated capitalist and fiscal conservative, you on the other hand are clearly a fascist just like your hero suthep, now go right ahead and rail on about Thaksin or whatever bogeyman you want to dream up, meanwhile when the next election in Thailand is held the PTP or whatever party takes its place will once again win a resounding victory with or without the Shinawatras

[englishoak]

Said the propagandist.

lol hardly, I say keep an open mind when your only told one side as its very unlikely to be all true and you say im a propagandist ? okaaay.

Don't worry I didn't expect critical thinking or reasoning skills from you

[michaeljordan]

The economy is likely in recession now.

It will get much worse.

There is going to be a price for this hostility toward democracy the elite and the army has shown.

Too bad.

[beautifulthailand99]

Scathing article in today's New York Times..

And factually incorrect, entirely missing out the part where PPP were in government post 2006 and how they came to be removed from it.

Regardless, the army has already stated that they are aware of international viewpoints, but interpret the situation differently - what the NYT thinks is entirely irrelevant - time to accept and move on prbkk.

Not a problem. Gen. Prayuth is going to have a weekly TV show where he will discuss the work done by his "administration" in the previous week and "clarify issues in the public interest" - but he won't be answering questions............................

They should turn it into a Lakorn and thread in key messages into the plot if they really want to win hearts and minds.

[inutil]

Karl popper wants a word with you. Something about 'falsification,' he said.

[michaeljordan]

So is this the sweet and calm Thailand we get told about?

Farang being thrown out tall buildings is so common that it hardly draws your attention anymore.

But about the economy, and it is the economy that will get everyone's attention should it collapse, it is in recession likely now.

Should it crash, and it could, this place will get real precarious. Crime will increase. People living in the streets will become common.

But you all know that.

Who runs Thailand now? Is it a group of wealthy that includes the family? I mean they own the army.

Yet it seems that no one knows for sure.

Would trade sanctions from nations change things? Likely the Thai elite would simply dig in and hold on as Thailand turned into Myanmar part II.

But with or without trade sanctions, the economy is going into a deep recession and any recovery will be unlikely under these conditions.

I will know it is over when some of you full time apologists for this Thai regime start to complain. When you wake up and see all your friends moving out of the nation you might get alarmed.

Beer and babes will not make up for the negatives after a time.

[sumtingwong]

And I will have a drink to celebrate their departure.

[djjamie]

See, there goes the issue. He makes a fair point. Its laden with fear and genuine trouble at power being concentrated in an unaccountable body. These are not irrational concerns. And were this your home nation (where you COULD NOT just get on a plane and leave), you might feel differently at the end of the day about this whole situation... but its not happening to YOU, its happening to people who dont have a passport allowing them free access to a completely different country and that makes this something far more distant and abstract ultimately to almost EVERYONE posting on this messageboard. People are in genuine fear of their ACTUAL (not virtual) lives due to POTENTIAL associations. Crimes are moving from legal-rational accountability to trial by military... which does not have the safeguards and burden of proof that civil courts have. There is reason, genuine reason to worry and fear for the future. Its a tenuous line. And if you cant see this, or if you think a few innocent people being locked up or summarily executed by mistake from dodgy evidence or paid informants is a price worth paying, then you and I wont ever see eye to eye on this matter.

I believe in due process. I believe in the rule of law and the burden of proof, and i believe in democracy for all. As im sure englishoak does. To deny that these have been abandoned in key functions without accountability through legislation and parliamentary democracy would be absurd. Say whatever you like about whether its a 'real' democracy, i couldnt care less (though id remind you that the EC and the democrat party both agreed that the outcome was 'fair' whether that 'fairness; is a quiet and tacit admission that all parties participated in corrupt practices or not), but to deny that the burden of proof has been changed and that people are beng arbitrarily detained based upon political affiliation is simply to be willfuly selective in your interpretation of events. Troubling things are happening to THAI people. Not to you. To THAI people based on their political affiliation. The question is whether this will end up beyond a tipping point. Right now it isnt. But right now there is to all intents and purposes a media blackout, so information is sketchy. The long and short of it is that im quietly optimistic and i genuinely from the bottom of my heart hope for a peaceful return to democracy. And i can remain hopeful because as of now, there is yet to be a genuine flashpoint. Long may the relative calm and peace continue.

You seem like Fryslan Boppe on Valium?

[michaeljordan]

And I will have a drink to celebrate their departure.

Yes I understand your feeling.

However, if I had a bad visitor in my house, I do not think burning down my own house would be a good plan for getting rid of them.

The Farang running away would simply be a response to the Thai house being on fire.

[Thaddeus]

The economy is likely in recession now.

It will get much worse.

There is going to be a price for this hostility toward democracy the elite and the army has shown.

Too bad.

The sky is falling is it?

Or is it just not the sky you like?

[michaeljordan]

The economy is likely in recession now.

It will get much worse.

There is going to be a price for this hostility toward democracy the elite and the army has shown.

Too bad.

The sky is falling is it?

Or is it just not the sky you like?

Thai banks say the economy is going into recession. Hardly am I making it up and your sky is falling comment would indicate you do not believe this fact. Show us quote from a bank in Thailand that says otherwise.

[sumtingwong]

And I will have a drink to celebrate their departure.

Yes I understand your feeling.

However, if I had a bad visitor in my house, I do not think burning down my own house would be a good plan for getting rid of them.

The Farang running away would simply be a response to the Thai house being on fire.

No, Thailand is not on fire, it is just Loi Krathong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_Krathong

But if that makes them leave any faster, so be it.

[englishoak]

Prove it. sorry but ive never bought the military intervention excuses tosh in the past and I sure dont now

[sumtingwong]

From Webster's dictionary:
so·cial·ism: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism.

[heybruce]

Scathing article in today's New York Times..

What do you think how much money did cost to publish that rubbish in NYT? It didn't come cheap. But dear leader is known to have deep pockets. He can continue wasting his own money, the gig in Thailand is over. His clique will not be wasting Thai tax payer money any longer.

Anyway NYT, CNN, BBC lost all credibility in 2010. Many of us were here and witness first hand what was going on. Their reporting back then was nothing short of disgrace. Nothing changed.

So know you believe that Thaksin has bribed the NYT to say what he wants. Alice in Sunderland time again.

I'm sorry, but it isn't my fault that you are ignorant and not aware of the well known fact that Thaksin employed a number of PR agencies to push his agenda through the western media. It's a fact which could be easily verified. There is really no excuse for your mental laziness.

Why didn't you verify it when you posted? The procedure is for the people posting facts to reference their source.