International alarm mounts over Thai coup

sjaak327 · June 2, 2014

What has Dubai got to do with anything. His post actually makes a lot of sense. Unless the junta does away with one man, one vote, the next elections will again be a massive win for PT. Their less then solid performance the last few years will not make one bit of difference, thanks to people who actually believe they have the right to ignore the will of the Thai electorate.

*edited out*

If you bothered to read his post then you will see that Shins were to become martyrs the main one is stationed -Dubai.

Unless you think T.S. has nothing to do with Dubai.

His post has no sense unless you looked at another post by mistake.

Who said the Army was to do away with 1 man 1 vote ??? your prediction for PT next election win is as far fetched as Elvis living in a red village.

Quote again " what has Dubai got to do with anything"---It's HRH Q/E Coronation day today have another drink.

Yes I am aware Thaksin is in Dubai, that still doesn't explain the relevance to the post of the one you responded to. Are you implying that anyone that even remotely seems to support PT should go there ?

My prediction that PT will win the next election isn't at all far fetched, in fact it has won any general election for over 13 years either using TRT PPP and PT. And they didn't win them with minimal difference either, at least two times they won by a landslide.

But I understand some people still haven't got the message. They will simply never learn, nor will they accept it. These kind of people would logically support a coup. It is these people that are the problem, nothing more and nothing less. Maybe they should go to Dubai instead !

MARTYRS was his post about----read it

2nd paragraph is just a load of PTP propaganda, heard it all before and now all it is good for is a laugh. Your lot are virtually dead and buried, give up, just rejoice if they happen to be re born and learnt from their horrid governing.

3rd paragraph rubbish, so I suppose 90+% of TVF posters are the problem and the few others --well it's them only that have all their marbles intact ????

Hmm Not sure why you use terms like "you lot". I am not a PT supporter,

The second line isn't propaganda, they are verifiable facts. Facts as in election results. I understand you wish to ignore these, I know quite a few people up north and in the north east who strongly disagree, and regardless of what you think about Thaksin or PT, they have every bloody right to disagree.

sumtingwong · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

sjaak327 · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

ginjag · June 2, 2014

If you bothered to read his post then you will see that Shins were to become martyrs the main one is stationed -Dubai.

Unless you think T.S. has nothing to do with Dubai.

His post has no sense unless you looked at another post by mistake.

Who said the Army was to do away with 1 man 1 vote ??? your prediction for PT next election win is as far fetched as Elvis living in a red village.

Quote again " what has Dubai got to do with anything"---It's HRH Q/E Coronation day today have another drink.

Yes I am aware Thaksin is in Dubai, that still doesn't explain the relevance to the post of the one you responded to. Are you implying that anyone that even remotely seems to support PT should go there ?

My prediction that PT will win the next election isn't at all far fetched, in fact it has won any general election for over 13 years either using TRT PPP and PT. And they didn't win them with minimal difference either, at least two times they won by a landslide.

But I understand some people still haven't got the message. They will simply never learn, nor will they accept it. These kind of people would logically support a coup. It is these people that are the problem, nothing more and nothing less. Maybe they should go to Dubai instead !

MARTYRS was his post about----read it

2nd paragraph is just a load of PTP propaganda, heard it all before and now all it is good for is a laugh. Your lot are virtually dead and buried, give up, just rejoice if they happen to be re born and learnt from their horrid governing.

3rd paragraph rubbish, so I suppose 90+% of TVF posters are the problem and the few others --well it's them only that have all their marbles intact ????

Hmm Not sure why you use terms like "you lot". I am not a PT supporter,

The second line isn't propaganda, they are verifiable facts. Facts as in election results. I understand you wish to ignore these, I know quite a few people up north and in the north east who strongly disagree, and regardless of what you think about Thaksin or PT, they have every bloody right to disagree.

Quote "I am not a PTP supporter" what the Heck are you pushing the OLD near fact at me ??? I am not interested and you should be ashamed to keep re igniting the fire. Ptp record no matter how many times they got elected is diabolical so let it drop we know all the past figures thanks.

You know a few people from up north---how many of the 30 million ???

I have lived in red villages here and there in Issan and do know the score--thanks and you are getting wrong info from the few you know---the support now is way down on what you think.---why are you worried if your not a red supporter ???

What % there are we do not know, and agree they have every right to not agree with whoever is in power. Before you spew out anymore figures from bygone years, it is now 2014 and moving on---you do the same.

binjalin · June 2, 2014

Wow, too many comments to read all, but let me at least praise one from heybruce with the "government didn't have to listen to Thaksin".

Now that will impress the International Community for sure.

Apparently I can not mention that constitution without reminding people that it was "approved" in a referendum in which the only choices were to approve the constitution or continue to live under military rule. You know that rubl.

also no 'anti' campaign was permitted - Hobson's Choice which we will get again... undoubtedly

the 2015 'new' constitution

actually if they tackle the BIG THREE : judiciary, lese majeste and corruption it might bring some peace (call me a cynic but I'm doubtful but hopeful)

Pray tell, what has the constitution to do with "government didn't have to listen to Thaksin". There is no entry which defines who can or cannot Skype-in into cabinet meetings as far as I know. Neither do I see what the 1997 or the 2007 constitution have to do with an International Community being less and less concerned or alarmed?

BTW if you want to know more about the 'junta' 2007 constitution, just read as a starter

"Thailand Law Journal 2009 Spring Issue 1 Volume 12

Deconstructing Thailand's (New) Eighteenth Constitution

Vitit Muntarbhorn"

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

now, now my Dear Rubl, you are not expecting the 'next' constitution to be similarly 'foisted'???

sumtingwong · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

Yes, but still did not get the majority of the votes from the Thai voters.

ginjag · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

OH please...... read 10,000 posts over 3 years the same stuff.......YAWN

sjaak327 · June 2, 2014

Hmm Not sure why you use terms like "you lot". I am not a PT supporter,

The second line isn't propaganda, they are verifiable facts. Facts as in election results. I understand you wish to ignore these, I know quite a few people up north and in the north east who strongly disagree, and regardless of what you think about Thaksin or PT, they have every bloody right to disagree.

Quote "I am not a PTP supporter" what the Heck are you pushing the OLD near fact at me ??? I am not interested and you should be ashamed to keep re igniting the fire. Ptp record no matter how many times they got elected is diabolical so let it drop we know all the past figures thanks.

You know a few people from up north---how many of the 30 million ???

I have lived in red villages here and there in Issan and do know the score--thanks and you are getting wrong info from the few you know---the support now is way down on what you think.---why are you worried if your not a red supporter ???

What % there are we do not know, and agree they have every right to not agree with whoever is in power. Before you spew out anymore figures from bygone years, it is now 2014 and moving on---you do the same.

The point is, these are indeed figures from the past.

You are absolutely mistaken if you actually believe those people will vote for the democrats next time. They will not. Not next year, not in two years and not in ten years. Not after one coup, not after the second and not after the third.

Which brings me back to my initial point. People apparently don't learn from past mistakes.

sjaak327 · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

Yes, but still did not get the majority of the votes from the Thai voters.

Yes, but don't you get it by now ? That is completely inconsequential.

They received enough votes to get 265 seats, which in Thai democracy means you can run the country. The fact that they actually included 4 more parties to from a government and the fact that this coalition actually received 52% of the votes, makes this whole discussion even more useless.

Prbkk · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

Yes, but still did not get the majority of the votes from the Thai voters.

Yes, we must all follow the 15 principles of democracy. 1 A party receiving the highest number of votes is not the legitimate government ( unless it's the democrats). 2. Always support a coup. 3-15. Irrelevant in the case of coup.

sumtingwong · June 2, 2014

Where is the "International alarm"?

"China disrupts Google services ahead of Tiananmen anniversary"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-disrupts-google-services-ahead-102334198.html

Edited June 2, 2014 by sumtingwong

sjaak327 · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

Yes, but still did not get the majority of the votes from the Thai voters.

Yes, we must all follow the 15 principles of democracy. 1 A party receiving the highest number of votes is not the legitimate government ( unless it's the democrats). 2. Always support a coup. 3-15. Irrelevant in the case of coup.

Oh yes ! I forgot. Back in 2008 when Abhisit formed a government all of this wasn't an issue. Not even the fact that the government was only possible thanks to a banned politician..

Talk about double standards.

ginjag · June 2, 2014

Hmm Not sure why you use terms like "you lot". I am not a PT supporter,

The second line isn't propaganda, they are verifiable facts. Facts as in election results. I understand you wish to ignore these, I know quite a few people up north and in the north east who strongly disagree, and regardless of what you think about Thaksin or PT, they have every bloody right to disagree.

Quote "I am not a PTP supporter" what the Heck are you pushing the OLD near fact at me ??? I am not interested and you should be ashamed to keep re igniting the fire. Ptp record no matter how many times they got elected is diabolical so let it drop we know all the past figures thanks.

You know a few people from up north---how many of the 30 million ???

I have lived in red villages here and there in Issan and do know the score--thanks and you are getting wrong info from the few you know---the support now is way down on what you think.---why are you worried if your not a red supporter ???

What % there are we do not know, and agree they have every right to not agree with whoever is in power. Before you spew out anymore figures from bygone years, it is now 2014 and moving on---you do the same.

The point is, these are indeed figures from the past.

You are absolutely mistaken if you actually believe those people will vote for the democrats next time. They will not. Not next year, not in two years and not in ten years. Not after one coup, not after the second and not after the third.

Which brings me back to my initial point. People apparently don't learn from past mistakes.

Who flaming cares about your propaganda figures, who are you trying to impress, this is boring to most posters.

Who the people vote for next time is not my business, DID I MENTION THE DEMOCRATS ???? so whats your argument ??? what is your rant about ???

People DO learn from past mistakes, But in the PTPs case they were NOT mistakes that is why we are in this mess. GET IT. enough is enough anyway, carry on with your belief that the dems will never ever win and the PTP will win every time---AND you said you are not a PTP supporter. ???? do you usually post and contradict yourself. I am of no party---I only post on Lousy administration. you can have your little favourite no problem.

sumtingwong · June 2, 2014

I understand all that, but suffice it to say, the majority of the Thais did not vote for PTP, regardless of their coalition government they formed. So PTP nor their supporters can say that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP. Didn't happen. They can not say the military went against the majority of the Thai voters by ousting PTP. The Egypt military however did go against the majority of the Egyptian voters when they ousted the muslim brotherhood. Where is the "International alarm mounts over Egyptian coup"? Why is Thailand singled out?

bigbamboo · June 2, 2014

What international alarm? The silence at home and abroad is deafening.

Even my fellow Old Boy Jonathan Head must be having trouble justifying his expenses claims at the moment.

djjamie · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

Yes, but still did not get the majority of the votes from the Thai voters.

Yes, we must all follow the 15 principles of democracy. 1 A party receiving the highest number of votes is not the legitimate government ( unless it's the democrats). 2. Always support a coup. 3-15. Irrelevant in the case of coup.

The party receiving the highest votes is legitimate. Absolutely.

Never support a coup unless it is to remove an unelected, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, convicted criminal fugitive from power.

It has been shown by the PTP that democracy ceases post ballot box. That is where democracy should begin.

Elections should be free and fair. They are not.

Before and now a narrow supporter base was / is being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers that make up 7% of the population.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make it a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 5 to 10 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated from the last 6 tragic months a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand where the UDD supporters laugh and cheer when they realize the opposition have been killed and maimed. That's not the democracy I am used to.

I look forward to a true real democracy. The one that is defined in the dictionary. Not the principle called election. People always harp on about elections as if that is it. Start finish and middle of democracy. Yet they stay silent on the abuses that the PTP perpetuated when they held power. Whether it is ignoring the fact or ignorance is still out with the jury, but suffice to say only one principle is only ever repeated here. One. Democracy is more than one.

Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote I believe (I think?) He has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform as well, but some would suggest that because he was elected by the majority this not need be the case. It is.

It most definitely is and when I see the people below that are under the repression of the "elected" government then that reinforces that you are wrong. Definitively, absolutely and comprehensibly wrong.

The PTP in 6 months have allowed, without repercussion, the deaths of over 20 protestors and 700 injured.

See the below again for what happens when a govt is not held accountable. According to you this is OK……….because they were elected right?

Edited June 2, 2014 by djjamie

sjaak327 · June 2, 2014

I understand all that, but suffice it to say, the majority of the Thais did not vote for PTP, regardless of their coalition government they formed. So PTP nor their supporters can say that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP. Didn't happen. They can not say the military went against the majority of the Thai voters by ousting PTP. The Egypt military however did go against the majority of the Egyptian voters when they ousted the muslim brotherhood. Where is the "International alarm mounts over Egyptian coup"? Why is Thailand singled out?

The coup ousted the government that was formed after the 2011 elections. That governement not only had 300 seats in parliament, it had support of over 52% of the electorate . So in both cases a majority. Also I am quite sure that many of the people that didn't vote for any of the parties that formed the government would not welcome the coup.

Edited June 2, 2014 by sjaak327

fab4 · June 2, 2014

Your right and that is why they had the UDD indoctrination schools that was set up and funded by 2 accused terrorists and an ex communist and her husband Dr Weng.

The eager young communist, Dr Weng, was in Thailand's underground movement 20 years ago now plays a major role in the UDD and was taught that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD have shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites. Your narrative feeds into that.

A tactic he uses is to keep saying that "we are a peace-loving people". The many factions folded into the UDD organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly. The UDD supporters will feed upon this rhetoric like a new born baby on his mothers nipple, but rest assured Dr Weng being highly educated and thoroughly knowledgable on Maoist theory produces this narrative in line with his teachings.

So when you say "Big Brother" will be pleased. Unfortunately I have to agree with you going by your post.

I'd be interested in knowing your sources. But, assuming for the moment you have presented and accurate and unbiased description of the UDD tactics, Dr Weng sounds like the equivalent of Carl Rove in the Republican Party of the US during the George W. Bush presidency. Except that the UDD was not in government in Thailand.

One difference between the UDD and the current government is that the UDD never seized control of all media in the country and imposed censorship. It can be difficult to say when marketing ends and propaganda begins, but once media has been seized and censorship imposed, I think the line has clearly been crossed. Of course Big Brother will use control of the media to assure the people that these controls are necessary to protect them.

His source is more than likely the piece in Asia Times online by a certain William Barnes. I can quite confidently predict that, as Barnes is the only person I have seen link Dr. Weng with being in Vietnam and allegedly being taught maoist principles. djjamie seems to believe the article and that Dr.Weng taught maoist theory to the red shirt cadre

Which is all very well but the Maoist principles of strategy relate to a rural based peasant revolution - I'm sure that came in real handy for those couple of months in Thailands capital city .

The Barnes piece is here http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html.

It might be worth reading this as a counterpoint

https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/red-shirts-as-communists/

sjaak327 · June 2, 2014

The point is, these are indeed figures from the past.

You are absolutely mistaken if you actually believe those people will vote for the democrats next time. They will not. Not next year, not in two years and not in ten years. Not after one coup, not after the second and not after the third.

Which brings me back to my initial point. People apparently don't learn from past mistakes.

Who flaming cares about your propaganda figures, who are you trying to impress, this is boring to most posters.

Who the people vote for next time is not my business, DID I MENTION THE DEMOCRATS ???? so whats your argument ??? what is your rant about ???

People DO learn from past mistakes, But in the PTPs case they were NOT mistakes that is why we are in this mess. GET IT. enough is enough anyway, carry on with your belief that the dems will never ever win and the PTP will win every time---AND you said you are not a PTP supporter. ???? do you usually post and contradict yourself. I am of no party---I only post on Lousy administration. you can have your little favourite no problem.

They are election results, not propaganda figures. Who the people vote for next time was the whole point of this discussion. Let me refresh your memory and quote the post that started this:

"As I've written before, when you make a martyr of an opponent, you make your opponent more powerful. Military coups have now made two members of the Shinawatra family into martyrs, and when elections return this will become clear. Too bad there couldn't have been an election right after the PTP had demonstrated years of incompetence and was at a low point in popularity.

All of the enthusiastic supporters of the coup should think about that. By supporting the coup you are supporting an action that increases the long-term power and influence of the Shinawatra family."

But of course these three sentences will probably go way over your head. And then to think you accuse me of ranting !

As to your last sentence, not sure why you still think I am a PT supporter. I just think the PT (or whatever name they wish to choose, using whomever to run) has a much bigger chance of winning the next elections as opposed to the democrats. And indeed this coup doesn't help making that chance go lower.

Edited June 2, 2014 by sjaak327

brewsterbudgen · June 2, 2014

The party receiving the highest votes is legitimate. Absolutely.

Never support a coup unless it is to remove an unelected, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, convicted criminal fugitive from power.

It has been shown by the PTP that democracy ceases post ballot box. That is where democracy should begin.

Elections should be free and fair. They are not.

Before and now a narrow supporter base was / is being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers that make up 7% of the population.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make it a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 5 to 10 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated from the last 6 tragic months a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand where the UDD supporters laugh and cheer when they realize the opposition have been killed and maimed. That's not the democracy I am used to.

I look forward to a true real democracy. The one that is defined in the dictionary. Not the principle called election. People always harp on about elections as if that is it. Start finish and middle of democracy. Yet they stay silent on the abuses that the PTP perpetuated when they held power. Whether it is ignoring the fact or ignorance is still out with the jury, but suffice to say only one principle is only ever repeated here. One. Democracy is more than one.

Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote I believe (I think?) He has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform as well, but some would suggest that because he was elected by the majority this not need be the case. It is.

It most definitely is and when I see the people below that are under the repression of the "elected" government then that reinforces that you are wrong. Definitively, absolutely and comprehensibly wrong.

The PTP in 6 months have allowed, without repercussion, the deaths of over 20 protestors and 700 injured.

See the below again for what happens when a govt is not held accountable. According to you this is OK.because they were elected right?

In all seriousness you're comparing Field Marshal Omar Hassan Ahmad Al-Bashir to Yingluck?!

I despair at the paucity of your arguments but credit your perseverance!

Piichai · June 2, 2014

The reverse to this of course is that when you mutli parties stand in elections, they can hardly say that the majority people voted for them either, get rid of the multi parties or form a coalition and there could have been a very real possibility of them together gaining more than 51% ...sadly it will never be proven, it's been explained to you numerous times now that what a majority means, you need to start looking up the definition, as you're clearly not getting it, if there are 4 parties in the election, and they all get 50%, 20%, 15%, 15% respectively, then 50% is still enough to win the most seats in the house, and are still classed as the majority, think of it in the same way that whilst 50% maybe didn't vote for the winners, it also means that anywhere between 50% and 80% didn't vote for your party either !!!

A majority is over 50%. Winning with less than 50% in a multi-party election is called a plurality.

ginjag · June 2, 2014

The point is, these are indeed figures from the past.

You are absolutely mistaken if you actually believe those people will vote for the democrats next time. They will not. Not next year, not in two years and not in ten years. Not after one coup, not after the second and not after the third.

Which brings me back to my initial point. People apparently don't learn from past mistakes.

Who flaming cares about your propaganda figures, who are you trying to impress, this is boring to most posters.

Who the people vote for next time is not my business, DID I MENTION THE DEMOCRATS ???? so whats your argument ??? what is your rant about ???

People DO learn from past mistakes, But in the PTPs case they were NOT mistakes that is why we are in this mess. GET IT. enough is enough anyway, carry on with your belief that the dems will never ever win and the PTP will win every time---AND you said you are not a PTP supporter. ???? do you usually post and contradict yourself. I am of no party---I only post on Lousy administration. you can have your little favourite no problem.

They are election results, not propaganda figures. Who the people vote for next time was the whole point of this discussion. Let me refresh your memory and quote the post that started this:

"As I've written before, when you make a martyr of an opponent, you make your opponent more powerful. Military coups have now made two members of the Shinawatra family into martyrs, and when elections return this will become clear. Too bad there couldn't have been an election right after the PTP had demonstrated years of incompetence and was at a low point in popularity.

All of the enthusiastic supporters of the coup should think about that. By supporting the coup you are supporting an action that increases the long-term power and influence of the Shinawatra family."

But of course these three sentences will probably go way over your head. And then to think you accuse me of ranting !

AND ??? what's your problem ???

I didn't care for the remark re----Military coups have made two members of the Shins martyrs.---total B/S

If you agree then you condone B/S

Then you smash figures of PTP election wins down my throat---and the Dems will never ever win again. B/S I will say again what is your point---what statement do you want to put forward---another one like ---You are Not a PTP supporter. ????

The shins to me are a corrupt + family for monetary gain and power crazy---to me that is not democratic---that also does not give them the right to be undemocratic in government--even if they won an election.

You want to believe other --then fine.

Piichai · June 2, 2014

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

So what percentage of 500 is 265? And what was the percentage of voters that elected the 265 seats?

Thait Spot · June 2, 2014

Robert Amsterdam's other client

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupiah_Banda

Any similarities?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

sumtingwong · June 2, 2014

A husband and wife commie red-shirt UDD team with the husband serving as a member of parliament for the PTP since 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weng_Tojirakarn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thida_Thavornseth

citizen33 · June 2, 2014

What international alarm? The silence at home and abroad is deafening.

Even my fellow Old Boy Jonathan Head must be having trouble justifying his expenses claims at the moment.

I'd concede that most of the international comment won't translate into tangible action, but it is rumbling on, even permeating down to regional newspapers. Here is an Op-Ed by a former Congressman who clearly doesn't like what has happened.

http://www.pressherald.com/opinion/Barney_Frank__It_s_time_to_stand_up_to_Thai_regime.html?searchterm=Thailand

djjamie · June 2, 2014

The party receiving the highest votes is legitimate. Absolutely.

Never support a coup unless it is to remove an unelected, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, convicted criminal fugitive from power.

It has been shown by the PTP that democracy ceases post ballot box. That is where democracy should begin.

Elections should be free and fair. They are not.

Before and now a narrow supporter base was / is being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers that make up 7% of the population.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make it a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 5 to 10 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated from the last 6 tragic months a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand where the UDD supporters laugh and cheer when they realize the opposition have been killed and maimed. That's not the democracy I am used to.

I look forward to a true real democracy. The one that is defined in the dictionary. Not the principle called election. People always harp on about elections as if that is it. Start finish and middle of democracy. Yet they stay silent on the abuses that the PTP perpetuated when they held power. Whether it is ignoring the fact or ignorance is still out with the jury, but suffice to say only one principle is only ever repeated here. One. Democracy is more than one.

Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote I believe (I think?) He has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform as well, but some would suggest that because he was elected by the majority this not need be the case. It is.

It most definitely is and when I see the people below that are under the repression of the "elected" government then that reinforces that you are wrong. Definitively, absolutely and comprehensibly wrong.

The PTP in 6 months have allowed, without repercussion, the deaths of over 20 protestors and 700 injured.

See the below again for what happens when a govt is not held accountable. According to you this is OK.because they were elected right?

In all seriousness you're comparing Field Marshal Omar Hassan Ahmad Al-Bashir to Yingluck?!

I despair at the paucity of your arguments but credit your perseverance!

Both elected by the people.

sumtingwong · June 2, 2014

Your right and that is why they had the UDD indoctrination schools that was set up and funded by 2 accused terrorists and an ex communist and her husband Dr Weng.

The eager young communist, Dr Weng, was in Thailand's underground movement 20 years ago now plays a major role in the UDD and was taught that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD have shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites. Your narrative feeds into that.

A tactic he uses is to keep saying that "we are a peace-loving people". The many factions folded into the UDD organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly. The UDD supporters will feed upon this rhetoric like a new born baby on his mothers nipple, but rest assured Dr Weng being highly educated and thoroughly knowledgable on Maoist theory produces this narrative in line with his teachings.

So when you say "Big Brother" will be pleased. Unfortunately I have to agree with you going by your post.

I'd be interested in knowing your sources. But, assuming for the moment you have presented and accurate and unbiased description of the UDD tactics, Dr Weng sounds like the equivalent of Carl Rove in the Republican Party of the US during the George W. Bush presidency. Except that the UDD was not in government in Thailand.

One difference between the UDD and the current government is that the UDD never seized control of all media in the country and imposed censorship. It can be difficult to say when marketing ends and propaganda begins, but once media has been seized and censorship imposed, I think the line has clearly been crossed. Of course Big Brother will use control of the media to assure the people that these controls are necessary to protect them.

His source is more than likely the piece in Asia Times online by a certain William Barnes. I can quite confidently predict that, as Barnes is the only person I have seen link Dr. Weng with being in Vietnam and allegedly being taught maoist principles. djjamie seems to believe the article and that Dr.Weng taught maoist theory to the red shirt cadre

Which is all very well but the Maoist principles of strategy relate to a rural based peasant revolution - I'm sure that came in real handy for those couple of months in Thailands capital city .

The Barnes piece is here http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html.

It might be worth reading this as a counterpoint

https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/red-shirts-as-communists/

I guess that explains the red-shirts flying the Cambodian flag. Do they want to do to Thailand what they did to Cambodia?

djjamie · June 2, 2014

Your right and that is why they had the UDD indoctrination schools that was set up and funded by 2 accused terrorists and an ex communist and her husband Dr Weng.

The eager young communist, Dr Weng, was in Thailand's underground movement 20 years ago now plays a major role in the UDD and was taught that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD have shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites. Your narrative feeds into that.

A tactic he uses is to keep saying that "we are a peace-loving people". The many factions folded into the UDD organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly. The UDD supporters will feed upon this rhetoric like a new born baby on his mothers nipple, but rest assured Dr Weng being highly educated and thoroughly knowledgable on Maoist theory produces this narrative in line with his teachings.

So when you say "Big Brother" will be pleased. Unfortunately I have to agree with you going by your post.

I'd be interested in knowing your sources. But, assuming for the moment you have presented and accurate and unbiased description of the UDD tactics, Dr Weng sounds like the equivalent of Carl Rove in the Republican Party of the US during the George W. Bush presidency. Except that the UDD was not in government in Thailand.

One difference between the UDD and the current government is that the UDD never seized control of all media in the country and imposed censorship. It can be difficult to say when marketing ends and propaganda begins, but once media has been seized and censorship imposed, I think the line has clearly been crossed. Of course Big Brother will use control of the media to assure the people that these controls are necessary to protect them.

His source is more than likely the piece in Asia Times online by a certain William Barnes. I can quite confidently predict that, as Barnes is the only person I have seen link Dr. Weng with being in Vietnam and allegedly being taught maoist principles. djjamie seems to believe the article and that Dr.Weng taught maoist theory to the red shirt cadre

Which is all very well but the Maoist principles of strategy relate to a rural based peasant revolution - I'm sure that came in real handy for those couple of months in Thailands capital city .

The Barnes piece is here http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html.

It might be worth reading this as a counterpoint

https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/red-shirts-as-communists/

I guess that explains the red-shirts flying the Cambodian flag. Do they want to do to Thailand what they did to Cambodia?

<EDIT> Yes!!! Maoist theory.

Edited June 2, 2014 by djjamie

brewsterbudgen · June 2, 2014

In all seriousness you're comparing Field Marshal Omar Hassan Ahmad Al-Bashir to Yingluck?!

I despair at the paucity of your arguments but credit your perseverance!

Both elected by the people.

Yes. As is every democratically elected leader. And?

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