Thais and their English affair

[DavidMavec]

I've been sitting in a cafe reading a Thai newspaper and the waitress will still fuss around trying to find the English menu with four items on it to present to me in a proud ceremony. Or out with the girlfriend and they only bring one menu. I love when I ask a question and they reply to her. It all makes me feel like a human being trapped in a hideous baboon suit.

That's exactly the way I feel and your experience matches mine perfectly, I'm going to copy what you wrote. On a few occasions when this has happened, I automatically responded: ผมไม่ใช่มนุษย์ต่างด้าว นะ! and then I automatically regretted what I said and felt a bit like an idiot because it just made them confused and in their heads they are not being rude or discriminatory.

[lostmebike]

In my experience, Thai's English listening skills are a shed-load better than their speaking skills so if they do understand and reply to you in English, what's the problem?

[Spouse]

Its annoying if you are trying to learn Thai, but in the grand scheme of things its much more preferable than no Thai's being able or willing to speak English.

[Pii Kate]

I would think that communication is the main issue here. You have a need, it is communicated and met. Who cares who, how or what language. You were understood? Yes? Be grateful. I'm at a loss to understand why something so simple can cause you to react at all.

[brewsterbudgen]

I would think that communication is the main issue here. You have a need, it is communicated and met. Who cares who, how or what language. You were understood? Yes? Be grateful. I'm at a loss to understand why something so simple can cause you to react at all.

Indeed. Why would someone be bothered about something so trivial?

[lostmebike]

I've been sitting in a cafe reading a Thai newspaper and the waitress will still fuss around trying to find the English menu with four items on it to present to me in a proud ceremony. Or out with the girlfriend and they only bring one menu. I love when I ask a question and they reply to her. It all makes me feel like a human being trapped in a hideous baboon suit.

That's exactly the way I feel and your experience matches mine perfectly, I'm going to copy what you wrote. On a few occasions when this has happened, I automatically responded: ผมไม่ใช่มนุษย์ต่างด้าว นะ! and then I automatically regretted what I said and felt a bit like an idiot because it just made them confused and in their heads they are not being rude or discriminatory.

But you are an alien.

[chrissables]

Oh my god. Little bothered farang is not happy because Thai people try to speak with him in english, and don't want to listen his very poor thai skills ?

Have you considered leaving the kingdom ?

3. It's not about who speaks the language better. In almost any other country if i try to practice the local language people are helpful.

But in Thailand xenophobia gets into the way of being helpful.

Oh my god. So much bullshit in so few words.

I am learning the Thai language and it is frustrating when you try to practice it if they won't listen. I understand at first they often think i am speaking English and once they know i am trying my Thai most are polite and helpful. Of course they also want to practice their English!

[tubby johnson]

@rlopes

What bothers me are people who are easily bothered by the slightest inconvenience.

They complain non-stop but can't be bothered to cheer up and make a positive contribution themselves.

Sorry to bother you with my botheredness.

[Briggsy]

Just ask them to kindly speak Thai. You will need to ask them in Thai at least 3 or 4 times until they admit, by stopping their pitiable excuse for English, that your Thai is about 20 times better than their English.

This is of course if that is the case.

[timmyp]

It can be annoying, but I think they are usually trying to be nice. I find that if you get your Thai up to a certain level, they will switch to Thai, and are happy to do so provided your level is high enough.

Note that it certainly isn't their responsibility to teach someone Thai, and it isn't fair to expect them to try speaking overly-simple Thai so that the farang can try following the conversation.

If you are not Asian, then it is hardly strange that they should think that English is the preferred means of communication. The obnoxious part is how much a Thai person may insist on sticking with English after you speak Thai. Again, my experience here is that they are happy to speak in Thai provided that the conversation can go smoothly. It's up to you to get it to go smoothly.

I lived in Japan for 15 years and I am fluent in Japanese (I went to interpreting school there and I am a professional translator). I find Japanese people who speak English to respond very negatively when I speak in Japanese, and that has caused many problems for me over my years in Japan. While people in Bangkok sometimes don't want me speaking Thai and push English on me, it is nothing like Japan, and for that I am just happy to be living here and not there. You have my empathy with your (our?) situation, but I assure you it's not so bad.

Edited May 29, 2014 by timmyp

[DavidMavec]

I lived in Japan for 15 years and I am fluent in Japanese (I went to interpreting school there and I am a professional translator). I find Japanese people who speak English to respond very negatively when I speak in Japanese, and that has caused many problems for me over my years in Japan. While people in Bangkok sometimes don't want me speaking Thai and push English on me, it is nothing like Japan, and for that I am just happy to be living here and not there. You have my empathy with your (our?) situation, but I assure you it's not so bad.

How is it different in Japan? How is their negative reaction different? I am not doubting you in the least, I am just curious to understand this more.

[ggt]

Does it also bother you? No! But your attitude does...

[dao16]

I live in a rural area, so it isn't so common out here to have people try to speak to me in English. I have experienced it in bigger cities. If they actually can speak, I go ahead and speak to them in English. Otherwise, I just keep speaking to them in Thai and they usually switch once they realize I speak Thai better than they speak English.

One thing you can do when you are first learning is to strike an agreement with store owners or whatever, depending on what you or they are good at. Like if you want to practice numbers, ask them to always tell you the numbers in Thai and that you will tell them some new English expressions in exchange (ie., when you walk out each day you say "See you later," "take it easy," "have a good one" and so on). That has worked for me in other places.

Good luck.

[wileycoyote]

Middle path -some farangs should try to speak more Thai

[timmyp]

How is it different in Japan? How is their negative reaction different? I am not doubting you in the least, I am just curious to understand this more.

I am told that the reason Japanese people do this is because they want to practice their English. I do not agree with that being the reason, but that is what most people will tell you. While of course some people want to practice their English, I think the negative reaction has more to do with Japanese people thinking, "Speaking my language is not how you are supposed to act. You are supposed to speak English. Just who do you think you are to try speaking my language?" I have certainly experienced that attitude in Thailand, but it isn't as bad as in Japan. I find Japan quite extreme in this respect.

Another important thing to remember is that nobody anywhere likes to hear their language mangled. There can be varying degrees of how tolerant people are, but most people in most places just think foreign speakers not speaking at a very high level simply aren't pleasant to listen to. It sucks when you are a learner of a language, and speakers of that language have that attitude, but that's just the way it goes, you just have to suffer through people making a stinky face when you speak, or generally reacting badly. While this negativity will always be there, it will lessen as you become more proficient. Is it worth suffering through the BS to learn a language? That depends on you.

If you take Thai lessons, you can have an environment where you can learn and speak and don't have to put up with the negative reaction. Remember, it's not the public's job to be nice to a foreigner struggling in their language. It's great when they are nice, but it's not something anyone should realistically expect.

[kurnell]

What bothers me is Thai English students who practice their English by interviewing me in shopping malls when they can barely utter the sentences they are reading off a card, and certainly cannot understand my response.

Eg. "Wass country you fom?", "Australia". Good start. "Why you like Thailand?". Because I live here" (not listening at all, but preparing for the last, crowning question), "When you go back your country?" "I'm not going back, (see 2nd response), I LIVE HERE!" "OK, sankoo". Oh bugger off

Great, go back to your mincing, your great challenge of the day is over in less than 30 seconds.

[recycler]

No, it doesn't bother me, I speak reasonable Thai, but I do know that even 2 native Thai speakers often don't understand each other.

Just try and if you practice hard you may get some useful communication on certain subjects with a few Thais.

Believe me you won't be far off from native speakers as even they have trouble getting the message across, no difference if the message is written or spoken.

[timmyp]

>How is their negative reaction different?

Ignoring people is a national sport of Japan. If I continue speaking Japanese to someone who wants to speak English to me, then no matter how nice or polite I am, I will be completely ignored.

If it is waitstaff, or an employee who is obliged to engage with me, then I will get one word answers fully showing the person is thoroughly irritated with me. Service will be ridiculously slow. They will take other customers before me. In those situations, it's better to leave the restaurant.

If it is someone in a bar or at a show or something (i.e., not someone who is obliged to provide a service for me), then that person who wants to speak English will stop looking at me. If I continue to try talking to that person in Japanese, then that person will not respond at all, like I am not there. They will try to get their friends to do the same. If they are my co-workers, then they will start bullying me at work (bullying on the job is another Japanese national sport). I avoid these English vampires.

There are people like this in Thailand, too, but from my experience, it's nothing as bad as Japan.

[dotpoom]

1. What really bothers me are farangs who assume most Thais can't really understand English.

2. They don't assume you're native English speaker (how would they know exactly what country you're from anyway?), but they do assume you speak English, which you probably do, right?

3. Ideally, yes, but if you foreigners speak so poor Thai, it may be better for us to speak to you in English instead to save time and get on with the business. Our English may be poor, but consider this that your Thai may also be poor. In this case, instead of getting annoyed by a Thai who are unwilling to put up and understand your poor Thai, perhaps you should just get on with your business and try to understand our poor English instead?

For example, if you was gonna buy some "gai yaang", and the vendor replied you "yoo wan fait chikken?", just say "yes", instead of getting annoyed?

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

Hope you fell better now.

[haikurd]

Ha ha, I try to order in my basic Thai at my favorite spots and the owner immediately turns around and translates into actual Thai for a very confused looking server. Once I asked for a spoon and ended up with a Chang beer.

I have had similar experiences in Latin America & Europe a few times, but not here at all, generally people love it that you make an effort to learn their language, it shows respect. It goes both ways though, their speaking in English to you shows their effort to respect foreign guests & make life easier for us. Probably around 99% of foreigners who come through don't speak Thai, and are very glad to be able to communicate in English even if it's not their first language. The staff have often been hired because they speak some English, they want to show they're doing their job and improve. For better or worse English is an international language, speaking it means higher pay and better opportunities not just in Thailand but in other non-English speaking countries. Be glad it's still English - tourist-oriented places here are snapping up people who speak Chinese or requiring staff to learn it.

Give the shopkeepers a break, if they speak to you in English it's not meant as a slight (and *definitely* not an inferiority complex or "colonial mentality"). If you want practice it's easy enough to get, maybe try some different places, the market, etc.

[NCFC]

If this stuff gives you a headache then you're going to have a difficult time living in Thailand. Chillax.

[edwardandtubs]

There are two things you can do in this situation. The first is to say (in Thai) you don't speak English and continue the conversation in Thai. The second is to start speaking English as you would to a native speaker and when they fail to understand, continue the conversation in Thai.

[DavidMavec]

Ha ha, I try to order in my basic Thai at my favorite spots and the owner immediately turns around and translates into actual Thai for a very confused looking server. Once I asked for a spoon and ended up with a Chang beer.

I have had similar experiences in Latin America & Europe a few times, but not here at all, generally people love it that you make an effort to learn their language, it shows respect.

Haha, guess it goes to show that everyone has a very different opinion about this issue because I love and respect how in Latin America and Europe they try to maintain their own language and culture... living in Latin America helped me become fluent in Spanish and integrate into the culture, something that is quite difficult if not impossible in Thailand.

I don't exactly see things the way you do obviously, and neither do many Thai people apparently. I see the kind of behavior you mention as superficial pandering in general and not a sincere respect. When I was still making an effort to improve my Thai before I lost interest because of the issues I mentioned previously, I put up an ad at a local university about studying Thai with a tutor 1:1 and said in the ad (in Thai) "No English necessary". While I got many responses to my ad asking them why they thought they would do a good job, most of them were something along the lines of "I am not afraid of speaking to foreigners, I am not afraid of speaking English".

But the one ad that stood out and the person I ended up hiring, who did quite a good job of helping me and was just a cool person in general, was the following response. I quite respect what he said and this mentality and I think if Thai people had more attitudes like this their culture would be more respected and they would have more genuine self-esteem instead of the superficial nationalism I see. [i've translated his response in brackets next to the line, pardon the poor translation]:

ทำไมคุณคิดว่าคุณจะทำงานนี้ได้ดี ? [Why do you think you will do a good job?]

ผมเป็นคนไทย เกิดและโตในไทย ใช้ภาษาไทยมาทั้งชีวิต

แต่นั่นไม่ใช่ประเด็น ผมเคยนั่งคิดว่าทำไมภาษาอังกฤษถึงได้เป็นภาษาแรกของโลก [but that's not the point. I have thought to myself before, "Why is English the first language used in the world?"]

ก็เพราะคนทั้งโลกยอมรับ (ร่วมทั้งผลที่เกิดจากการล่าอาณานิคมนิดหน่อย) [Well, because everyone in the world accepts that this is the case..this issue is somewhat related to and comes from colonialism]

แต่นั่นก็ไม่ใช่ประเด็นอีกนั่นแหละ ประเด็นคือ ทำไมคนไทยชอบง้อ เวลาชาวต่างชาติมาในประเทศก็ต้องไปฝึกเรียนนั่นเรียนนี่ [but there's another point at stake here. Why do Thai people like to pander to foreigners? When foreigners come come to Thailand, it is natural that they have to study different things.]

ไม่ใช่ว่านั่นเป็นเรื่องเลวร้ายอะไร การเรียนรู้สิ่งต่างๆ นั้นเป็นเรื่องดีเสมอ [That's not a bad thing at all, having to study things that are different. This is a good thing for us to show others.]

แต่เราควรจะสร้างค่านิยมให้คนที่เข้ามาประเทศไทยต้องหัด ต้องฝึกภาษา ไม่ต้องถึงขั้นเขียนได้ เอาแค่ฟังรู้ พูดคล่อง [but we should boost popularity of having foreigners learn our language so that when others come to Thailand they should feel they need to practice.]

Edited May 29, 2014 by DavidMavec

[AYJAYDEE]

English is the official language of ASEAN and it is important thais learn it! quit your whining.

[rlopes]

Have you considered leaving the kingdom ?

Have you considered writing something useful in your first posts? Why would even bother registering to write so much BS is beyond me.

1. Tell me you don't agree with me then. How many Thais can get beyond the very basics when they say things like "no have" ?

Quite a few millions.

3. My very basic Thai is good enough to order most things. In fact, the seller will waste much more time trying to remember what he learnt in English then vice-versa?

Your very basic Thai sucks. Otherwise the seller who speaks excellent Thai wouldn't be working with English. The reason the seller is doing that is he couldn't understand a word you said. He would much rather speak Thai, trust me here, but has decided it is hopeless if he is ever going to move his business along and get to the customer after you.

I think you are confused. _Quite a few millions_ is the amount of Thais that can properly read and write Thai, not English.

Not that I blame them directly. I know the shit this country has gone through and that they are doing what they can.

PSs: Most Thais reply just fine to me in Thai. My rant is about the few prouder ones.

Edited May 29, 2014 by rlopes

[rlopes]

@rlopes

What bothers me are people who are easily bothered by the slightest inconvenience.

They complain non-stop but can't be bothered to cheer up and make a positive contribution themselves.

Sorry to bother you with my botheredness.

Says the one who's complaining about my complaint. Maybe yourself should think about making a positive contribution?

Does it also bother you? No! But your attitude does...

You would be surprised to know how many people are bothered by yours...

[Johpa]

Did it ever occur to you that your thai might be so incomprehensible that it isn't recognised as thai, so they speak to you in English as they don't speak whatever language they think you're speaking?

When I first learned thai I found this to be the case all the time and it was frustrating. Now my thai is far better, people never reply in English and are delighted that I can speak their language.

Breakthrough for my thai pronunciation was learning to read and write so you can nail the tonality. Good luck.

I agree 100%. Most Thais switch to English because the pronunciation of Thai by most Farangs is atrocious and nearly incomprehensible. The vast majority of Farangs never get even close to mastering either the tones or the issue of vowel length. Other failings include some of the vowels; e.g. the unrounded vowel in ชื่อ (name). The syllable initial /ng/ (งู) consonant as well as the syllable final glottal stop consonant is rarely mastered as well. Thus it can take quite awhile for many Thais to tune in to a foriegner's pronuciation. Heck, it took me a few days to parse the English spoken by the first resident of Edinburgh that I encountered on my first year of travel at the tender age of 18.

[BudRight]

I suspect the 'quit your whining' posters have nothing interesting to say in any language.

[fasteddie]

I think you'll find many Thais prefer to speak English to farangs to learn to speak English better.

[arisaje]

4. If you want to practice Thai, hire a tutor or something. Instead of getting annoyed of that fried chicken vendor who refuse to let you practice your Thai. Also, think it this way, that chicken vendor may simply be trying to practice her English with you.

Why do most of you Thai people foolishly believe that all white people want to speak or practice English?This is not England, this is Thailand. You should have more pride in your culture and language than this! Thai people love to say how they were never colonized but your behavior, especially on this issue, says something very different in my opinion.

What has someone wanting to speak English got to do with whether they had been colonized or not?

Do you not understand anything, even basic history of the world. Do you not know that the French, Dutch, Spanish colonized places throughout Asia, not only the British.

And the reason Thai's believe (not foolishly) that all white people want to speak English….is that it is the most commonly used language in the world for business and social reasons.