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Thai government should do more to encourage foreign entrepreneurs


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Great idea in concept. But then there's the reality of past history.

For every honest to gosh entrepreneur that will start a viable business, they'd have 25 "visa challenged" applicants that will never leave their barstool, then be looking for an ED visa when their entrepreneur visa runs out.

Fool me once, shame on you...

Besides, there is already a clear path for entrepreneurs to start up in Thailand. The problem is that many don't like the rules, or don't have the capital, or can't stand the idea of Thai partners, or hiring Thai nationals.

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Great idea in concept. But then there's the reality of past history.

For every honest to gosh entrepreneur that will start a viable business, they'd have 25 "visa challenged" applicants that will never leave their barstool, then be looking for an ED visa when their entrepreneur visa runs out.

Fool me once, shame on you...

Besides, there is already a clear path for entrepreneurs to start up in Thailand. The problem is that many don't like the rules, or don't have the capital, or can't stand the idea of Thai partners, or hiring Thai nationals.

Agree, on all counts. I know quite a few foreigners who run businesses in Thailand already. It seems the OP doesn't want to put forth the necessary effort and wants to be spoon-fed by the government.

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I think this would be a great idea. I see entrepreneurs in other countries in the region (and I don't just mean tech guys) opening all sorts of businesses that you just don't see in Thailand. For example, I just recently watched a Youtube video about a Zimbabwean couple that have opened a hair salon in Beijing, China. The whole family moved to China and even managed to employ a couple more people from home. The reason they opened a hair salon in Beijing is because there were so far no other hair salons that could style the hair of black people. A very nice little business that you would never see in Thailand because foreigners can't own and operate anything here like back home - they are always "behind the scenes" with entirely Thai staff - a foreigner apparently can't even mix drinks for customers in his own bar - except those Indians down in Ao Nang, Krabi running Italian restaurants in full view of everyone, lol.

Sounds like China is slowly becoming a bit like the west, where immigrants can come and establish a business and employ their own people in order to service the local and expat population in a specific niche area. Thailand could learn a bit from them. Or from Cambodia, Laos or Vietnam, where I've seen similar things. I've seen Chinese restaurants in Laos that employ entirely Chinese staff and have menus only in Chinese. There is even a North Korean restaurant in Vientiane I believe, complete with North Korean waiters and waitresses! There are Vietnamese restaurants in Lao with much the same setup. In Cambodia foreigners are running bars and restaurants without having to hide inside their own restaurants, they can actually go out and meet customers, take their orders, make chit-chat etc. Sure they employ some locals too, but what I don't understand is why foreigners that own restaurants/bars etc. are basically only allowed to manage them?! Why can't they do all the tasks that any other business owner would do, i.e. the getting your hands dirty stuff (assuming they want to, of course)?

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Tomtomtom69, I'd be careful about holding China up as a shining example. Any business dealing with or involving foreigners in China requires approvals by countless government bureaus. So many, in fact that nobody can realistically get all the approvals- largely because nobody knows what bureaus have in their "neibu" or unwritten regulations at any given time. And if they could get all the approvals, it would take years- even decades to go through all the bureaus. But as a practical matter, the businesses are still allowed to open and operate with just a few key bureaus' approval, in the wide open light of day. Until the day they're not any more.

I've had many friends set up very nice businesses in China and operate for years, only to wake up one day and find themselves locked out of their own facility by their employees or partners or landlords, with no recourse because the first question asked by the court is whether they have all the relevant approvals. And, of course they don't since it's virtually impossible to get them all. So they have no standing in court to even start a case.

In Bangkok here, I have often been greeted by foreign owners and managers of hotels and restaurants. I assume they're the ones that bother (and can afford) to go through the process of registering their companies legally, and getting proper work permits for the owners and managers, But who knows? Maybe they're risking the business every time they greet me.

My heart still goes out to the guys that open up a bar or restaurant on a shoestring and can't afford to register properly and hire Thai staff to get legal with work permits. But shoestring operations are not the kind of investment most countries favor in their visa policies.

Edited by impulse
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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

Ok..but one assumes your a British national or EU "citizen" ?...you have right of abode in the UK.

But how many Thai nationals can turn up in the UK on a tourist visa and start working as an independent consultant in the UK, long term or even short term legally ?

you not comparing apples with apples...

One assumes in Thailand there are many Thai independent contractors working for themselves, so this is the same as the UK

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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

Ok..but one assumes your a British national or EU "citizen" ?...you have right of abode in the UK.

But how many Thai nationals can turn up in the UK on a tourist visa and start working as an independent consultant in the UK, long term or even short term legally ?

you not comparing apples with apples...

One assumes in Thailand there are many Thai independent contractors working for themselves, so this is the same as the UK

Stop talking sense.

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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

Ok..but one assumes your a British national or EU "citizen" ?...you have right of abode in the UK.

But how many Thai nationals can turn up in the UK on a tourist visa and start working as an independent consultant in the UK, long term or even short term legally ?

you not comparing apples with apples...

One assumes in Thailand there are many Thai independent contractors working for themselves, so this is the same as the UK

Stop talking sense.

I am not on a Tourist Visa! I have a Non Imm O/Marriage Visa and Thailand is now my home. There are many nationalities in the UK who worked the same way as I did and I am sure some of them were Thai (but can't corroborate that). Yeh sure I can set up a company here but as I said that goes with the "four Thai employee" thing and what I do and the way I work there is no need for additional staff. But as alluded to in another post there are many businesses that have started off as small or a "one man band" that have grown. What I do is embryonic in Thailand but I believe there is a need for it as is evidenced by Thai companies now creating jobs for people like me but obviously without the experience and same level of knowledge. I have been doing what I do for many years and, and like I said, I am prepared to impart/transfer that knowledge. I see nothing wrong with that.

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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

Ok..but one assumes your a British national or EU "citizen" ?...you have right of abode in the UK.

But how many Thai nationals can turn up in the UK on a tourist visa and start working as an independent consultant in the UK, long term or even short term legally ?

you not comparing apples with apples...

One assumes in Thailand there are many Thai independent contractors working for themselves, so this is the same as the UK

Stop talking sense.

clap2.gif

laugh.png a thousand apologies...from now on I shall tow the TV finest party line and only make comments like....

"they are racist, don't they understand, I demand change (even though I don't have legal right of abode and not a citizen of Thailand), do they realize how much money they are losing, I spend THB 30 squillion a year, I prop up the Thai economy, I am white westerner, they cant treat me like this."

better..??biggrin.png

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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

I am not on a Tourist Visa! I have a Non Imm O/Marriage Visa and Thailand is now my home. There are many nationalities in the UK who worked the same way as I did and I am sure some of them were Thai (but can't corroborate that). Yeh sure I can set up a company here but as I said that goes with the "four Thai employee" thing and what I do and the way I work there is no need for additional staff. But as alluded to in another post there are many businesses that have started off as small or a "one man band" that have grown. What I do is embryonic in Thailand but I believe there is a need for it as is evidenced by Thai companies now creating jobs for people like me but obviously without the experience and same level of knowledge. I have been doing what I do for many years and, and like I said, I am prepared to impart/transfer that knowledge. I see nothing wrong with that.

You were an independent contractor for 15 years, needing no employees. How is that "embryonic", in the eyes of a policy that's designed to create jobs for locals?

Have you looked at the cost of 4 3 Thai employees vs the taxes you (should have) paid on your revenues back home? (3 because you have a Thai wife for your payroll) There are a lot of ways to make it work legally here in Thailand. They all have costs.

Or, if what you have is truly valuable, get hired on by one of those companies creating jobs for people like you. Or as an alternative, by a "body shop" that arranges your work permit, then subs you out to those companies on an ad-hoc basis. That's how a lot of the guys I know work here perfectly legally. Some of them are making a lot more than they could make "back home", even after the body shop takes their cut- because, like you, they have skills not available here.

Take your learning lumps, figure out how it's done legally, mentor some Thai folks that you can hire (poach) when you go out on your own, and then do it. Remember, that as a force of one, you are basically trading your time for money- and you're limited to 40-80 hours a week. With a team of "clones" that you bring along and nurture, you have no such limitations. That's embryonic. And perfectly legal.

Edit, one last comment before I quit beating this dead horse. Most entrepreneurs would be astounded by the amount of their valuable time they're spending making travel arrangements, picking up the laundry, taking the car in for oil changes, dealing with government tax issues, cleaning the office, going out for lunch, shopping for copier paper and printer toner, and on and on. Why would anyone even think about spending their high value time on those rote tasks if they could hire a few locals at ridiculously low local rates to do those tasks? Then focus more time on the higher order tasks that actually bring in revenue.

Edited by impulse
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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

I am not on a Tourist Visa! I have a Non Imm O/Marriage Visa and Thailand is now my home. There are many nationalities in the UK who worked the same way as I did and I am sure some of them were Thai (but can't corroborate that). Yeh sure I can set up a company here but as I said that goes with the "four Thai employee" thing and what I do and the way I work there is no need for additional staff. But as alluded to in another post there are many businesses that have started off as small or a "one man band" that have grown. What I do is embryonic in Thailand but I believe there is a need for it as is evidenced by Thai companies now creating jobs for people like me but obviously without the experience and same level of knowledge. I have been doing what I do for many years and, and like I said, I am prepared to impart/transfer that knowledge. I see nothing wrong with that.

You were an independent contractor for 15 years, needing no employees. How is that "embryonic"?

Have you looked at the cost of 4 3 Thai employees vs the taxes you (should have) paid on your revenues back home? (3 because you have a Thai wife for your payroll) There are a lot of ways to make it work legally here in Thailand. They all have costs.

Or, if what you have is truly valuable, get hired on by one of those companies creating jobs for people like you. Or as an alternative, by a "body shop" that arranges your work permit, then subs you out to those companies on an ad-hoc basis. That's how a lot of the guys I know work here perfectly legally. Some of them are making a lot more than they could make "back home", even after the body shop takes their cut- because, like you, they have skills not available here.

Take your learning lumps, figure out how it's done legally, mentor some Thai folks that you can hire when you go out on your own, and then do it. Remember, that as a force of one, you are basically trading your time for money- and you're limited to 40-80 hours a week. With a team of "clones" that you bring along and nurture, you have no such limitations. That's embryonic. And perfectly legal.

"You were an independent contractor for 15 years, needing no employees. How is that "embryonic"?" ... I said what I do is embryonic in Thailand not the way I work!

"Or, if what you have is truly valuable, get hired on by one of those companies creating jobs for people like you" ... as you well know they will only employ Thai's!

"Or as an alternative, by a "body shop" that arranges your work permit, then subs you out to those companies on an ad-hoc basis" ... what exactly do you mean by "body shops"? Example?

"There are a lot of ways to make it work legally here in Thailand. They all have costs" ... it has nothing to do with costs it is about wanting to tray and replicate a successful work model (but maybe I need to review whether that would work here in Thailand) ... I am sure it would because as was stated before there are many Thai independent contractors but of course not farang.

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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

Ok..but one assumes your a British national or EU "citizen" ?...you have right of abode in the UK.

But how many Thai nationals can turn up in the UK on a tourist visa and start working as an independent consultant in the UK, long term or even short term legally ?

you not comparing apples with apples...

One assumes in Thailand there are many Thai independent contractors working for themselves, so this is the same as the UK

Stop talking sense.

I am not on a Tourist Visa! I have a Non Imm O/Marriage Visa and Thailand is now my home. There are many nationalities in the UK who worked the same way as I did and I am sure some of them were Thai (but can't corroborate that). Yeh sure I can set up a company here but as I said that goes with the "four Thai employee" thing and what I do and the way I work there is no need for additional staff. But as alluded to in another post there are many businesses that have started off as small or a "one man band" that have grown. What I do is embryonic in Thailand but I believe there is a need for it as is evidenced by Thai companies now creating jobs for people like me but obviously without the experience and same level of knowledge. I have been doing what I do for many years and, and like I said, I am prepared to impart/transfer that knowledge. I see nothing wrong with that.

No one said you were on a tourist visa did they ?....as to the many nationalities in UK doing same as you, one supposes these already have legal right of abode in the UK ?...yes ?

You don't have legal right of abode in Thailand, so before the business laws in Thailand change, one would have to change the immigration laws to allow for a spouse of a Thai national to be granted legal right of abode in Thailand (PR), if we continue this train, lets suppose they did change the immigration laws to be granted that right of abode, and implemented something similar to the UK in that the Thai wife,( in most cases) had to have sufficient financial means in their own right to support their foreign spouse, one suspects there would be very few foreign spouses in Thailand who would be granted right of abode on this basis...ergo a change in business laws wouldn't help them any way...

IMHO opinion, someone who is a serious foreign entrepreneur in Thailand, the current rules of a THB 2.0mil cap Ltd company and 4 employees, if they are not married to a Thai national is not an unreasonable requirement, and more specifically in your case, these requirements are halved, so what we hare talking about is a USD 30k cap company and two Thai, employees...and lets face it your wife could be one of those employees and hire a maid...on 7k/m and just pay the tax and social security for your wife, she doesn't need to draw a salary in reality...

Not hard...

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"Body shop" is basically the equivalent of an employment agency- with extra services thrown in because TIT. We refer to them as body shops because I really don't know an appropriate western equivalent.

A lot of foreign companies don't want the hassle of dealing with all the government issues related to keeping their employees legal. So their foreign employees technically work for the body shop that files the myriad of paperwork, walks the employees through the 90 day reports, extensions of stay, annual work permits, etc. They may also provide internationally recognized insurance for their people, as mine does.

Some of the body shops also act as executive recruiters, finding candidates to match open positions.

I work for one, contracted out to a foreign owned company- in my case, 100% of my time is spent with the one client company. Every 90 days, I get a call from the nice lady at the body shop and she brings my passport in to get the 90 day stamp. Every year, she takes me down to the One-Stop and walks me through all the formalities to get my WP extended and a new extension of stay. My paycheck comes from the body shop, and they invoice the client company. Most (if not all) of the foreigners in my line of business work through body shops.

Edited by impulse
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A topic dear to my heart. I worked on the contract market in the UK between 1996 and 2011 as an independent consultant and would dearly like to do that here but you just cannot do it. Why should I need to employ four Thai staff for no real reason ... I don't need staff! When I worked in the UK one of the things I always did was transfer my skills, knowledge, tools & techniques to individuals that I worked with in organisations and I would do the same here which I think should negate the need to employ Thai staff. What do I do ... go to ... https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Highway-of-Change/226702424202273?notif_t=page_new_likes ... yes I am aware that this is a blatant piece of advertising ... LOL.

Ok..but one assumes your a British national or EU "citizen" ?...you have right of abode in the UK.

But how many Thai nationals can turn up in the UK on a tourist visa and start working as an independent consultant in the UK, long term or even short term legally ?

you not comparing apples with apples...

One assumes in Thailand there are many Thai independent contractors working for themselves, so this is the same as the UK

Stop talking sense.

clap2.gif

laugh.png a thousand apologies...from now on I shall tow the TV finest party line and only make comments like....

"they are racist, don't they understand, I demand change (even though I don't have legal right of abode and not a citizen of Thailand), do they realize how much money they are losing, I spend THB 30 squillion a year, I prop up the Thai economy, I am white westerner, they cant treat me like this."

better..??biggrin.png

Better.

But you forgot to mention your special forces qualifications.

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But you forgot to mention your special forces qualifications.

didn't forget, But I figured If I mentioned my past life as member of the special forces, being a ninja and an EX-CIA operative...I would have told you too much and would have to kill you... and seem such a nice chap...biggrin.png

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In my humb....oh forget it. The bottom line is...Don't do business in Thailand. It's too hard and you have to deal with the Thais. Want to start a business in Thailand? Stand in the middle of the road and give your money away, far less stressful with the same result.

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I've seen many, many, many, many formal, public proclamations by private/gov't types here a la "Thailand plans to become the hub of ___________."

I can't ever recall "foreign entrepreneurs" being one of the countless "Hub" goals?

In fact, how many countries actually encourage/welcome foreigner entrepreneurs these days, other than say the U.S.A.?

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There is already a government (not sure now with this coup thing) initiative in place encouraging western startups in the tech space. My friend built a tech company here from the ground up and now has over 30 employees and contracts with top Thai telecoms companies.

Moreover, there's a very active startup movement here. There are startup weekends when Thai/foreign teams integrate to come up with ideas - the winners get backing to develop their innovation, there's places like Hubba, which always has startup-related events going on, and there's loads of young, foreign entrepreneurs working here on projects that will benefit Thailand and the broader region.

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There is already a government (not sure now with this coup thing) initiative in place encouraging western startups in the tech space. My friend built a tech company here from the ground up and now has over 30 employees and contracts with top Thai telecoms companies.

Moreover, there's a very active startup movement here. There are startup weekends when Thai/foreign teams integrate to come up with ideas - the winners get backing to develop their innovation, there's places like Hubba, which always has startup-related events going on, and there's loads of young, foreign entrepreneurs working here on projects that will benefit Thailand and the broader region.

Well why don't we ever hear about this crap from our barstools, huh?

If they were truly serious about attracting foreign entrepreneurs, they should place brochures about these programs at every expat bar. So I'd have something to read while I'm waiting for them to fix my order because I'm sure I ordered no onions and extra mustard- in perfect Thai.

Edited by impulse
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Most people who wish to start a business here are already doing it. Thailand is already business friendly. BOI etc.

Even for small scale without BOI Visa is not a problem, Work permit is not a problem etc. No real money needed for business registration etc.

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Universities and Business colleges, should also be allowed to employ foreign Experts, in their specialist fields such as:

Entrepreneurship; International business, Economics, Accounting IT...

But of course they would not stay long for THB30,000! (And a Dump of an apartment)

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