Thai Lateness. Your reaction?

[Jip99]

I do detest people who kiss-ass everything Thai and fall back on the tiresome solution of "go back to your own country if you don't like it here".

Integration is about adapting not just rolling over to ever Thai whim or 'culture'.

You know what, we may even be able to teach the Thais something............................

I said try to deal with it, not leave. Or, should I put it in crayon for you? And, it's their country, you are a guest. Deal with it.

It's immigration, not integration.

If your colouring book cannot cope with integration, have a try at assimilation.

I was not invited, I am not a guest - no one hosts me.

I stay here under visa regulations and live my life on a balanced basis between Thai 'culture'.

i am not Thai, I don't want to be Thai and I certainly don't wish to conduct myself on the same basis as Thai culture.

So, you're being held against your will? Forced to stay with no recourse? I'm sure one of the alphabet spies/ military guys that hang out at the go-go bars can free you back to jack-boot land.

What an odd poster you are!

[atyclb]

Had a dinner meeting in BKK arranged once with a Thai friend.

I arrived at the venue slightly ahead of time and got settled, ordered a beer and some nibbles knowing very well this Thai trait regarding punctuality.

30 minutes pass and he calls to inform me traffic is bad, will be another 30 mins.

30 mins later he calls again, "nearly there, crazy traffic, dunno whats happening, about 10 mins more!"

I call him back 30 mins later...phone closed.

I call again after 10 more mins....phone still closed

I pay the bill and go home.

Turns out he was in Chiang Mai when he spoke to me, but could not bring himself to tell me earlier that day that our appointment needed to be rescheduled. He was happy to spin some yarn until the 'loss of face' was too much to bear, then he turned off his phone!

Truly amazing. Still shake my head trying to work that one out to this day. Said event took place 17 years ago.

Although you can't admit it, the truth is you simply cannot deal with "the master race"

[benalibina]

Many things we don't like in LOS we put down to "local culture" but lets face it most of the things are world wide. We just notice them more because we live here and have a rosy memory of what it was back in the real world.

Being late has different levels of importance, business appointment or meeting a friend in the pub, but I think any lateness without good excuse or explanation is a sign of disrespect.

I have always tried to be punctual it's the respectful thing to do.. I remember long time ago in another land I had a job interview in a part of town that was unfamiliar to me so the day before did the journey to see how long it would take so that on the day I would not be late.

Living here now I have come to accept the way things are.

Life goes on

but the question is, do THAIS see it as disrespect? how westerners see is not relevant

Read the OP by any chance ?

[Kitsune]

And the opposite expectation is quite baffling.

My Thai friend offers to take me to the market the day after.

Despite my asking, she refuses to give me a time, not even if it"s morning or afternoon.

she can't plan ahead.

So I have to block ALL DAY just in case she calls me and wants to go.

And when she did call, we had to go RIGHT NOW,not in 5 minutes.

The market was a disaster,she kept rushing me.

Now I go to the market on my own by bus.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Kitsune

[maderaroja]

I find the explanation of 'Thai lateness' to be very simple:

- If they've got something you want, they are late.

- If you've got something they want, they are on time.

I agree. It is that simple. /always be sure that you have something that they want. Then, they will not only be on time, they will respect you.

[firefox999uk]

I was once invited to a party in New York City - when I showed up on time at 8 pm, the hosts were coming out of the shower and nothing was ready as they expect everyone to show up at 10 pm… and they did. I was the only one inconveniently on time. You apparently have some understanding of the culture, adjust or be frustrated continually.

I like punctuality but I am retired. I keep a book with me and try not to let it get to me as i enjoy the fact that I am not doing businesss here.

ps - A friend of mine was a retired veterinarian. he wanted to work a few hours a day and went in to the office from 10 am - 2 pm…

He left the hours open and was becoming annoyed as everyone was showing up when he was ready to close. Then he walked through the reception area as his receptionist was on the phone w/a client. She told the client you can come in anytime - ten to two… and so everyone was showing up at 1:50….

It’s like making an appointment at the dentist for 2.30........(Tooth Hurty...Dentist...ok ill leave now)

Have a nice day

[JLCrab]

I had agreed to buy a few things for my Thai friend on my trip to USA so he offered to take me to the KKC airport and we would have dinner at a nearby restaurant. He picked me up quite punctually.

But first I have stop here. Then I have to go to a supplier. Then I have to go to my factory to pay some employees. Then I have to go to a customer to collect. Finally as we approached the airport I said 'No time for dinner -- just drop me off NOW' near to closing of check-in time.

[ttthailand]

I am never late unless something really happens that is out of my control. I plan for traffic and required stops... coffee, lunch etc... I look at it this way, being late 15 minutes for a meeting with 8 people waiting for you is a waste of 2 hours...15 minutes X 8 = 2 hours.

Same as someone being late on a bus tour and everyone waiting .... 40 people on the bus and you are late for 5 minutes and holdup everyone. 40 X 5 = 200 or 3 hours and 20 minutes. Would you want to wait 3 hours and 20 minutes for the people on the bus ?

As far as Thais being late... Yes, more so than others but I have learned to adapt to it. Normally however everyone is on time for meetings as I am the guest and they have invited me and need something from me. I do however arrive at meetings with many people scheduled but always there is one or two who show up late. Depending on who they are we may just start on time. If they are a supplier they will be disappointed as they will have to jump through hoops to get information. I refuse to answer questions for people who just show up late. I just smile and say sorry I don't have time as I have another meeting and I don't want to be late. They get my point.

Once someone is late then all bets are off and I will do as I please. I will go where I want and do whatever and perhaps change the entire plan.

30 minutes late with no call there is a good chance I will have moved on already. Up to them if they want to follow.

Edited June 6, 2014 by ttthailand

[Gandtee]

If it bothers you, than you are living in the wrong country - move to Switzerland.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

As the man said 'If the Swiss had designed Switzerland they would have made it flat'. It is much more exciting here, having a mental bet as to whether the visitor will be on time or not. Most times not, but then you start getting used to it. After many years I am nearly getting used to it.

[AYJAYDEE]

Many things we don't like in LOS we put down to "local culture" but lets face it most of the things are world wide. We just notice them more because we live here and have a rosy memory of what it was back in the real world.

Being late has different levels of importance, business appointment or meeting a friend in the pub, but I think any lateness without good excuse or explanation is a sign of disrespect.

I have always tried to be punctual it's the respectful thing to do.. I remember long time ago in another land I had a job interview in a part of town that was unfamiliar to me so the day before did the journey to see how long it would take so that on the day I would not be late.

Living here now I have come to accept the way things are.

Life goes on

but the question is, do THAIS see it as disrespect? how westerners see is not relevant

Read the OP by any chance ?

i was commenting on the daffy post not the OP

Edited June 6, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[asiabill]

I am usually a fanatically punctual person BUT. Years ago I had a job interview in Bangkok. The taxi took me to the wrong school branch. After discovering the error the taxi was gone and I had to walk out of the school and get another taxi at approx 5.00 pm. Bangkok traffic! I showed up for at the correct school branch for my interview about an hour late. I was horrified and worried whether it was even worth my while going in that late. When I met my interviewer I was grovelling as much as I could grovel - and he could not figure out my problem. 'We are both here now so let's talk." I got the job!

[maximus101]

Happened to me this morning

My wid\fe said she would be downstaris with my niece for me to take her to school at 7:45 (we confirmed this at 7:35)

7:55 still not there

wonders why im annoyed

But as i have spent time in the pacific islands i understand the concept of island time (same same as thailand)

They are more laid back than us

but it still anoys me when others make a time and dont keep to it

cest la v ie

[Paulzed]

My first reaction was to moan about it, then after a few years laugh about it, now I know the way the average Thai thinks is very different from the way the average Westerner thinks. It's a cultural thing due to the Buddhism, IMHO. Thai people don't care if the person they meet is late as they a lot more comfortable enjoying the moment than Westerners, who are not taught "samadtee" or meditative techniques at school.

They will reply, "I am here 'now'", so what's the problem.

They are actually right as time IS an illusion.

Its all relative.

[belg]

make yourself relaxed, and tell yourself

THAIS CANNOT FIGURE OUT THE HANDS ON THE CLOCK

they cannot read time, so it is ... 10- ish or whatever time ...

it is like not speaking the last letters of a word if it ends on a double consonant

[tkramer]

"I assume you are from West, and like all cultures, think our perception of time is "the right one, the rational one" etc."

Japan is most certainly not a 'Western' country, and they are extremely punctual and on time.

All Thai's love money. Time is money. However, the concept of 'time-liness' is just too abstract for most Thai's.

[kaorop]

Another ding-a-ling comes to Thailand and wants paradise to be a Western hell. It's their country, try to deal with it.

the one post pony strikes again

heres a new one for you

"i'm more thai than you, na nah na na naaarr"

soon you will have a 5 post repertoire

[Steiner]

I had a pal in the UK who was always late. He once told me that it wasn't his fault, he was physically losing time or someone was stealing it from him.

He also told me he rode a bike through the centre of manchester swinging a sword and he was a modern day knight so I took most of what he said with a pinch of salt.

Wonder what happened to him.

Maybe he was only jousting...

[harryfrompattaya]

Well

The Joke goes When God said come forth for Brains they came Fifth

How true

[hellohello123]

so seriously, is it customary for thai people to be late even for their own job interviews??? surely not!!!

and im talking about professional jobs ie bankers, accountatns, and not 7-11/waitress jobs

[Jip99]

I just read your post -- now I'm late.

You should have set out earlier......................................

Sorry JLCrab, there should have been a at the end of my post.

[Jip99]

I do detest people who kiss-ass everything Thai and fall back on the tiresome solution of "go back to your own country if you don't like it here".

Integration is about adapting not just rolling over to ever Thai whim or 'culture'.

You know what, we may even be able to teach the Thais something............................

I said try to deal with it, not leave. Or, should I put it in crayon for you? And, it's their country, you are a guest. Deal with it.

It's immigration, not integration.

If your colouring book cannot cope with integration, have a try at assimilation.

I was not invited, I am not a guest - no one hosts me.

I stay here under visa regulations and live my life on a balanced basis between Thai 'culture'.

i am not Thai, I don't want to be Thai and I certainly don't wish to conduct myself on the same basis as Thai culture.

you ARE a guest. and, like the folks that refuse to live according to british or american culture when they emigrate, you dont deserve to be.

You ARE wrong.

Lets take No4 from this list:-

1. One who is a recipient of hospitality at the home or table of another.

2. One to whom entertainment or hospitality has been extended by another in the role of host or hostess, as at a party.

3. One who pays for meals or accommodations at a restaurant, hotel, or other establishment; a patron.

4. A distinguished visitor to whom the hospitality of an institution, city, or government is extended.

5. A visiting performer, speaker, or contestant, as on a radio or television program.

6. Zoology A commensal organism, especially an insect that lives in the nest or burrow of another species.

I see no hosting, hospitality or any accommodation provided to me by Thailand.

We are ALIENS - it is clearly stated by immigration and in most official references to the Farang.

The last person qualified to judge whether I should stay here is you.

[krishnan]

My wife is Thai and she is always on time. Her business associates are always on time. I went to immigration yesterday and they opened on time. I had an appointment with the doctor and he was on time. I have Thai TV and all the programs today were on time. I have a Thai dog and every day at exactly 4 PM she comes to the front door to wait for her food.

If anyone would look at an average day in Thailand I think they will find most things happen on time.

Agree..I find except for few rare happenings...mostly people coming for interviews arrive on time, the staff in office are on time, client (Thai) is always ready when you go to meet them with prior appointment. Whats all the fuss about??!!

[Suradit69]

Do I have to teach an adult to come on time?

I tend to be compulsive about being on time (or early in most cases), but I recognize this obsession is my problem and, since I've also realized that I am not the center of the universe, I've learned to sublimate (like a real adult would) even if I don't feel like doing so. Outside of several anal retentive population hubs of the time-obsessed, many people consider other behaviors even worse than tardiness ...

... fortunately Thais usually overlook farang tantrums.

Maybe, those of us who are chronically on time are the real problem. Was the world really meant to be run by a clock? Maybe the punctual have capitulated while the “latecomers” are the real rebels. Fighting against the dictates of the almighty clock and the culture of promptness ushered in by our advanced industrial and digital society. Perhaps, the “latecomers’ are living time in a more natural manner where life is based on cycles and not on a clock. The punctual person is driven by the time of day and the time designated by a tacit contract. The meeting will start at 8 AM. Be there or be late. The latecomer is driven by their own necessities and by an inner clock: “It is still dark out;”

“I am too tired to get up yet;” “So what if I come late, it’s not the end of the world;” “I have more important priorities;” or “I don’t feel like rushing.” The punctual person is horrified by these excuses: “What, I broke my neck to get here on time and the meeting was cancelled.” Life is not fair to the punctual person. But what do we tell our kids about the fairness of life?

Do you suppose hell is a place where everyone must be on time or suffer even worse punishments? Hard to imagine what could already be worse than hell. What happens to the late comers in hell then? What about the punctual? Are the places in heaven guaranteed only for the punctual? Can you be punctual and still go to hell?

As you go through today, how obsessed are you with being on time? Is there a place in your life for “time cycles” and not clock time? What if you are late? What difference will it make? Can you be late and not feel obsessed? What does it mean to walk a line between obsessive punctuality and perpetual lateness?

http://timeparables.blogspot.com/2010/03/are-you-obsessed-with-being-on-time.html

[hellohello123]

well, lets turn it the other way

if you went on a first date with a girl and you being the male were 30-45 mins late,

and you were both keen on eachother,

Would she be annoyed? Would you being late indicate anything to her?

[HooHaa]

I do detest people who kiss-ass everything Thai and fall back on the tiresome solution of "go back to your own country if you don't like it here".

Integration is about adapting not just rolling over to ever Thai whim or 'culture'.

You know what, we may even be able to teach the Thais something............................

I said try to deal with it, not leave. Or, should I put it in crayon for you? And, it's their country, you are a guest. Deal with it.

It's immigration, not integration.

If your colouring book cannot cope with integration, have a try at assimilation.

I was not invited, I am not a guest - no one hosts me.

I stay here under visa regulations and live my life on a balanced basis between Thai 'culture'.

i am not Thai, I don't want to be Thai and I certainly don't wish to conduct myself on the same basis as Thai culture.

So, you're being held against your will? Forced to stay with no recourse? I'm sure one of the alphabet spies/ military guys that hang out at the go-go bars can free you back to jack-boot land.

it would seem to me you either haven't read or completely failed to understand the post i have so kindly highlighted for you.

he most clearly states that he has satisfied all the requisites for being here and lives here on his own terms within the conditions of those requirements.

it is quite clear.

there are no rules or regulations requiring any of us to go native.

Edited June 6, 2014 by HooHaa

[Grindting]

Well in Jakarta the locals call it rubber-time, and blame the traffic.

It's all bullshit, they can be on time if they want as they live here and know about the traffic. Do you think they would be late for an audience with the president? Or late to collect a cheque for $1 million dollars? Of course not. They choose to be late because they are lazy. The traffic exists because the infrastructure is so poor and city planning is non-existent. This is because the city malcipality are too lazy and corrupt to sort it out. The root of the entire countries pool of problems is all due to laziness.

We (foreiners) were the main contractors on a project, and if any consultants or subcontractors (local or foreign) were late, they were not admitted to the meeting, or if it was them alone for tendering or post tender enquiries etc, they were disqualified or told to return at another date/time. They soon learned the ropes and most would arrive an hour EARLY just in case (or they would loose money).

In business this is how it is. If they can get away with being late then they will do.

My Thai ex gf years ago was meant to meet me in Bangkok from KK once, I paid her flight on thai air, and of course she was late for the flight. Missed it. The next flight available in the evening was business class available only, and cost me another 6,000 baht. I was absolutely furious, and Her answer was 'this is all they have, if u don't want to pay it it's ok I just won't come'. She had absolutely no respect for me whatsoever and had a string of other guys (and girls) on the go, and I ditched her soon after.

My Indonesian wife would never dare be late for anything, she would hate the embarrassment.

[krishnan]

My first reaction was to moan about it, then after a few years laugh about it, now I know the way the average Thai thinks is very different from the way the average Westerner thinks. It's a cultural thing due to the Buddhism, IMHO. Thai people don't care if the person they meet is late as they a lot more comfortable enjoying the moment than Westerners, who are not taught "samadtee" or meditative techniques at school.

They will reply, "I am here 'now'", so what's the problem.

They are actually right as time IS an illusion.

My mrs used to think like you until one day she rocked up at Don Muang and was told the flight has gone already.

Any problems take it up with Thai Airways, sorry we cant keep the flight on hold until you and your upcountry shitkicker cousins decide its ok to rock up here, just coz you decided to stop off for a gobfull of som tam en route.

Just read your post and the face thread as well, and had a funny thought

Imagine a thai person is catching a flight and decides to turn up whenever they feel like it and get told the flight closed 45 minting ago

If they follow the true concept of face, they Dont lose their temper, they keep their composure even though they have been ripped off, while the airline staff don't tell them that their flight has already gone so the.customer doesn 't lose face in front of their friends

And so they all.just stand there, one side thinking the plane is still open, while the other side just hopes they go away and become.someone else.problem!

Hahahaha.....Hahahaha....still laughing as I write this. "so the.customer doesn 't lose face in front of their friends" & "they go away and become.someone else.problem!" These are more serious issues for me which is just too much to cope up with here. Have you noticed, there is no hierarchy (which works in actual terms) which is very effective here? Coz...the manager doesn't want to hurt the feelings of his subordinate...who made a blunder....so he never pull them up...and things never improve.

[maximillian]

My wife is Thai and she is always on time. Her business associates are always on time. I went to immigration yesterday and they opened on time. I had an appointment with the doctor and he was on time. I have Thai TV and all the programs today were on time. I have a Thai dog and every day at exactly 4 PM she comes to the front door to wait for her food.

If anyone would look at an average day in Thailand I think they will find most things happen on time.

Best comment. That's how I see it too.

[lostmebike]

Sure it's frustrating but this is how Thai's operate. Maybe one thing you could OP is to tell them to be half hour earlier than your arrival time. Just an idea.

One's got to ask though, how long have you been here?

[Jip99]

My wife is Thai and she is always on time. Her business associates are always on time. I went to immigration yesterday and they opened on time. I had an appointment with the doctor and he was on time. I have Thai TV and all the programs today were on time. I have a Thai dog and every day at exactly 4 PM she comes to the front door to wait for her food.

If anyone would look at an average day in Thailand I think they will find most things happen on time.

Best comment. That's how I see it too.

I wonder, if this had been posted in the Isaan forum, would the answers be the same ?

I suspect that our daily experience will colour our opinions.

It is not unusual for dentists, doctors and buses to be up to one hour late and the local immigration have NEVER opened on time.