Thai Lateness. Your reaction?

[benalibina]

allowing foreigners to retire in their country is quite an important item.

Indeed, one wonders about all the negativity towards such an emphatic nation of people. Dont you ?

[AYJAYDEE]

allowing foreigners to retire in their country is quite an important item.

Indeed, one wonders about all the negativity towards such an emphatic nation of people. Dont you ?

they're not called whingeing poms for nothing

[stickylies]

i don't mind this late thing to be honest since i don't wait either. eg. if my neighbour says "tomorrow 10am" and he's not there by 10:15am i'm off. we both don't care, life goes on, mai bpen rai. OP should go to africa where "the bus will come... today".

[Jip99]

allowing foreigners to retire in their country is quite an important item.

I can retire to many countries. Thailand is not one of them.

Thailand allows you to remain for no more than 12 months - unless you have PR.

[benalibina]

allowing foreigners to retire in their country is quite an important item.

Indeed, one wonders about all the negativity towards such an emphatic nation of people. Dont you ?

they're not called whingeing poms for nothing

Thats correct, nothing comes for free.

[AYJAYDEE]

allowing foreigners to retire in their country is quite an important item.

Indeed, one wonders about all the negativity towards such an emphatic nation of people. Dont you ?

they're not called whingeing poms for nothing

Thats correct, nothing comes for free.

many things come for free

[spidermike007]

If meeting at a Pub with friends it doesn't really matter.... some are late, sometimes I am...

In the past if meeting for a date, 15 mins was the cut off time. If I waited 15 mins and there was no call or explanation, I'd simply leave.

My last date called me 15 mins before hand to indicate she may be late because of traffic, an excellent start (she was on time anyway !) 7 years later we are married with a child!

In a professional setting: being late is disrespectful, delays are tolerated with a good excuse. However, in general being late shows a lack of respect for the other party. Using 'Thai Culture' as an explanation for this doesn't cut it either. In these cases use of the term Culture is often wrongly used as an excuse to explain something negative. Thai's know how to be on time just like any other nation. There are no secrets. If someone is consistently late for you, they don't respect you.

We've had workers booked to do some interior work: They failed to show on a Friday, promised to come on Monday at 9am, at 9am we called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 9:30am I called them. They told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 10am I called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. I told them to forget it. At 10:15am they called, they were at our apartment, I told them I wasn't interested. The owner called up shortly afterwards and complained about the cost of materials etc in producing our inbuilt furniture that they were about to fit.... Not my problem I told him, If his staff are late and lie to me on the phone I won't use his company (luckily I'd refused to pay a deposit for the work).

For the most part - its not about a delay, its about how respectfully a delay is handled. If someone is late, sending a message is polite. Being respectful of someone else does not end at a cultural crossing... Thai's have no excuses if when they are late, they are just careless...

Example: If meeting someone senior, an official for example, would a Thai be late?... in many cases being late is an actual choice within someones control.

For the most part, all my friends are reasonable time keepers - One exception is a friend and he's handled a different way - when meeting at a pub I don't leave my home until he's called to let me know he's on his way !

Beautifully written. I think anyone with self respect does not tolerate serial lateness. Being late shows a profound disrespect for the person you are meeting. Regardless of culture. If it is important, you simply find a way to he on time.

[AYJAYDEE]

If meeting at a Pub with friends it doesn't really matter.... some are late, sometimes I am...

In the past if meeting for a date, 15 mins was the cut off time. If I waited 15 mins and there was no call or explanation, I'd simply leave.

My last date called me 15 mins before hand to indicate she may be late because of traffic, an excellent start (she was on time anyway !) 7 years later we are married with a child!

In a professional setting: being late is disrespectful, delays are tolerated with a good excuse. However, in general being late shows a lack of respect for the other party. Using 'Thai Culture' as an explanation for this doesn't cut it either. In these cases use of the term Culture is often wrongly used as an excuse to explain something negative. Thai's know how to be on time just like any other nation. There are no secrets. If someone is consistently late for you, they don't respect you.

We've had workers booked to do some interior work: They failed to show on a Friday, promised to come on Monday at 9am, at 9am we called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 9:30am I called them. They told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 10am I called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. I told them to forget it. At 10:15am they called, they were at our apartment, I told them I wasn't interested. The owner called up shortly afterwards and complained about the cost of materials etc in producing our inbuilt furniture that they were about to fit.... Not my problem I told him, If his staff are late and lie to me on the phone I won't use his company (luckily I'd refused to pay a deposit for the work).

For the most part - its not about a delay, its about how respectfully a delay is handled. If someone is late, sending a message is polite. Being respectful of someone else does not end at a cultural crossing... Thai's have no excuses if when they are late, they are just careless...

Example: If meeting someone senior, an official for example, would a Thai be late?... in many cases being late is an actual choice within someones control.

For the most part, all my friends are reasonable time keepers - One exception is a friend and he's handled a different way - when meeting at a pub I don't leave my home until he's called to let me know he's on his way !

Beautifully written. I think anyone with self respect does not tolerate serial lateness. Being late shows a profound disrespect for the person you are meeting. Regardless of culture. If it is important, you simply find a way to he on time.

you are not in a position to say what is disrespectfull in ALL cultures. you are merely expressing your opinion

[spidermike007]

Had a dinner meeting in BKK arranged once with a Thai friend.

I arrived at the venue slightly ahead of time and got settled, ordered a beer and some nibbles knowing very well this Thai trait regarding punctuality.

30 minutes pass and he calls to inform me traffic is bad, will be another 30 mins.

30 mins later he calls again, "nearly there, crazy traffic, dunno whats happening, about 10 mins more!"

I call him back 30 mins later...phone closed.

I call again after 10 more mins....phone still closed

I pay the bill and go home.

Turns out he was in Chiang Mai when he spoke to me, but could not bring himself to tell me earlier that day that our appointment needed to be rescheduled. He was happy to spin some yarn until the 'loss of face' was too much to bear, then he turned off his phone!

Truly amazing. Still shake my head trying to work that one out to this day. Said event took place 17 years ago.

And this is why I often say that face is the ultimate form of cowardice. The practice of face means you do not have to be honest nor direct. You could have simply been a man, and told you he could not make it. But, instead he was a complete buffoon, a fool, a mere shadow of a man. A man child behaves like this. What does it accomplish? The sheer lack of reflection involved in this act demonstrated how ridiculous the practice of face is. I could care not whether or not it is cultural. It is cowardice at its utmost.

[benalibina]

Had a dinner meeting in BKK arranged once with a Thai friend.

I arrived at the venue slightly ahead of time and got settled, ordered a beer and some nibbles knowing very well this Thai trait regarding punctuality.

30 minutes pass and he calls to inform me traffic is bad, will be another 30 mins.

30 mins later he calls again, "nearly there, crazy traffic, dunno whats happening, about 10 mins more!"

I call him back 30 mins later...phone closed.

I call again after 10 more mins....phone still closed

I pay the bill and go home.

Turns out he was in Chiang Mai when he spoke to me, but could not bring himself to tell me earlier that day that our appointment needed to be rescheduled. He was happy to spin some yarn until the 'loss of face' was too much to bear, then he turned off his phone!

Truly amazing. Still shake my head trying to work that one out to this day. Said event took place 17 years ago.

And this is why I often say that face is the ultimate form of cowardice. The practice of face means you do not have to be honest nor direct. You could have simply been a man, and told you he could not make it. But, instead he was a complete buffoon, a fool, a mere shadow of a man. A man child behaves like this. What does it accomplish? The sheer lack of reflection involved in this act demonstrated how ridiculous the practice of face is. I could care not whether or not it is cultural. It is cowardice at its utmost.

There is a topic running regarding ....FACE.....have your say in there ....too...

[Jip99]

If meeting at a Pub with friends it doesn't really matter.... some are late, sometimes I am...

In the past if meeting for a date, 15 mins was the cut off time. If I waited 15 mins and there was no call or explanation, I'd simply leave.

My last date called me 15 mins before hand to indicate she may be late because of traffic, an excellent start (she was on time anyway !) 7 years later we are married with a child!

In a professional setting: being late is disrespectful, delays are tolerated with a good excuse. However, in general being late shows a lack of respect for the other party. Using 'Thai Culture' as an explanation for this doesn't cut it either. In these cases use of the term Culture is often wrongly used as an excuse to explain something negative. Thai's know how to be on time just like any other nation. There are no secrets. If someone is consistently late for you, they don't respect you.

We've had workers booked to do some interior work: They failed to show on a Friday, promised to come on Monday at 9am, at 9am we called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 9:30am I called them. They told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 10am I called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. I told them to forget it. At 10:15am they called, they were at our apartment, I told them I wasn't interested. The owner called up shortly afterwards and complained about the cost of materials etc in producing our inbuilt furniture that they were about to fit.... Not my problem I told him, If his staff are late and lie to me on the phone I won't use his company (luckily I'd refused to pay a deposit for the work).

For the most part - its not about a delay, its about how respectfully a delay is handled. If someone is late, sending a message is polite. Being respectful of someone else does not end at a cultural crossing... Thai's have no excuses if when they are late, they are just careless...

Example: If meeting someone senior, an official for example, would a Thai be late?... in many cases being late is an actual choice within someones control.

For the most part, all my friends are reasonable time keepers - One exception is a friend and he's handled a different way - when meeting at a pub I don't leave my home until he's called to let me know he's on his way !

Beautifully written. I think anyone with self respect does not tolerate serial lateness. Being late shows a profound disrespect for the person you are meeting. Regardless of culture. If it is important, you simply find a way to he on time.

you are not in a position to say what is disrespectfull in ALL cultures. you are merely expressing your opinion

That is exactly what a forum is about - opinions.

But - FACT - if a person feels disrespected (the Thais are great at highlighting that one) then it is disrespect.

Something may not be intended as offensive but if the recipient is offended then it is offended - this is the basic principle in racism.

[AYJAYDEE]

If meeting at a Pub with friends it doesn't really matter.... some are late, sometimes I am...

In the past if meeting for a date, 15 mins was the cut off time. If I waited 15 mins and there was no call or explanation, I'd simply leave.

My last date called me 15 mins before hand to indicate she may be late because of traffic, an excellent start (she was on time anyway !) 7 years later we are married with a child!

In a professional setting: being late is disrespectful, delays are tolerated with a good excuse. However, in general being late shows a lack of respect for the other party. Using 'Thai Culture' as an explanation for this doesn't cut it either. In these cases use of the term Culture is often wrongly used as an excuse to explain something negative. Thai's know how to be on time just like any other nation. There are no secrets. If someone is consistently late for you, they don't respect you.

We've had workers booked to do some interior work: They failed to show on a Friday, promised to come on Monday at 9am, at 9am we called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 9:30am I called them. They told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 10am I called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. I told them to forget it. At 10:15am they called, they were at our apartment, I told them I wasn't interested. The owner called up shortly afterwards and complained about the cost of materials etc in producing our inbuilt furniture that they were about to fit.... Not my problem I told him, If his staff are late and lie to me on the phone I won't use his company (luckily I'd refused to pay a deposit for the work).

For the most part - its not about a delay, its about how respectfully a delay is handled. If someone is late, sending a message is polite. Being respectful of someone else does not end at a cultural crossing... Thai's have no excuses if when they are late, they are just careless...

Example: If meeting someone senior, an official for example, would a Thai be late?... in many cases being late is an actual choice within someones control.

For the most part, all my friends are reasonable time keepers - One exception is a friend and he's handled a different way - when meeting at a pub I don't leave my home until he's called to let me know he's on his way !

Beautifully written. I think anyone with self respect does not tolerate serial lateness. Being late shows a profound disrespect for the person you are meeting. Regardless of culture. If it is important, you simply find a way to he on time.

you are not in a position to say what is disrespectfull in ALL cultures. you are merely expressing your opinion

That is exactly what a forum is about - opinions.

But - FACT - if a person feels disrespected (the Thais are great at highlighting that one) then it is disrespect.

Something may not be intended as offensive but if the recipient is offended then it is offended - this is the basic principle in racism.

the citizens of a country CANNOT be expected to know the sensitivities of every nationality that visits their country! ESPECIALLY if it is at odds with theirs.your claim is silly.

[sdanielmcev]

Cowardice? Disrespect? Racism? I left the West to get away from that socialist crap. Shoving ideals down others throat in the name of "progress."

Btw, I figure if I'm not 15 minutes early, I'm late.

[Jip99]

Beautifully written. I think anyone with self respect does not tolerate serial lateness. Being late shows a profound disrespect for the person you are meeting. Regardless of culture. If it is important, you simply find a way to he on time.

you are not in a position to say what is disrespectfull in ALL cultures. you are merely expressing your opinion

That is exactly what a forum is about - opinions.

But - FACT - if a person feels disrespected (the Thais are great at highlighting that one) then it is disrespect.

Something may not be intended as offensive but if the recipient is offended then it is offended - this is the basic principle in racism.

the citizens of a country CANNOT be expected to know the sensitivities of every nationality that visits their country! ESPECIALLY if it is at odds with theirs.your claim is silly.

You most certainly can where racism, for example, is concerned.

I agree entirely that when in Thailand one abides by the rules of that country. The fact that Thailand is not up to speed in some areas of political correctness is both a good thing and a bad thing.

Thailand generally cares little for the culture of others and will stubbornly. rarely adapt - one reason why other ASEAN countries are leaving them behind educationally. As a westerner in Thailand one needs to accept that the Thais will not understand/recognise the principle of disrespect where late time keeping is concerned. However, where westerners are engaging staff/labour then they have every right to set the terms of employment - if timeliness is one of those terms then the Thais face a FIFO situation.

Personally, I think the time issue is more prevalent in social situations than in business/work situations.

[spidermike007]

If meeting at a Pub with friends it doesn't really matter.... some are late, sometimes I am...

In the past if meeting for a date, 15 mins was the cut off time. If I waited 15 mins and there was no call or explanation, I'd simply leave.

My last date called me 15 mins before hand to indicate she may be late because of traffic, an excellent start (she was on time anyway !) 7 years later we are married with a child!

In a professional setting: being late is disrespectful, delays are tolerated with a good excuse. However, in general being late shows a lack of respect for the other party. Using 'Thai Culture' as an explanation for this doesn't cut it either. In these cases use of the term Culture is often wrongly used as an excuse to explain something negative. Thai's know how to be on time just like any other nation. There are no secrets. If someone is consistently late for you, they don't respect you.

We've had workers booked to do some interior work: They failed to show on a Friday, promised to come on Monday at 9am, at 9am we called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 9:30am I called them. They told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 10am I called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. I told them to forget it. At 10:15am they called, they were at our apartment, I told them I wasn't interested. The owner called up shortly afterwards and complained about the cost of materials etc in producing our inbuilt furniture that they were about to fit.... Not my problem I told him, If his staff are late and lie to me on the phone I won't use his company (luckily I'd refused to pay a deposit for the work).

For the most part - its not about a delay, its about how respectfully a delay is handled. If someone is late, sending a message is polite. Being respectful of someone else does not end at a cultural crossing... Thai's have no excuses if when they are late, they are just careless...

Example: If meeting someone senior, an official for example, would a Thai be late?... in many cases being late is an actual choice within someones control.

For the most part, all my friends are reasonable time keepers - One exception is a friend and he's handled a different way - when meeting at a pub I don't leave my home until he's called to let me know he's on his way !

Beautifully written. I think anyone with self respect does not tolerate serial lateness. Being late shows a profound disrespect for the person you are meeting. Regardless of culture. If it is important, you simply find a way to he on time.

you are not in a position to say what is disrespectfull in ALL cultures. you are merely expressing your opinion

That is exactly what a forum is about - opinions.

But - FACT - if a person feels disrespected (the Thais are great at highlighting that one) then it is disrespect.

Something may not be intended as offensive but if the recipient is offended then it is offended - this is the basic principle in racism.

the citizens of a country CANNOT be expected to know the sensitivities of every nationality that visits their country! ESPECIALLY if it is at odds with theirs.your claim is silly.

Sloth is Sloth. Does not matter the nation, nor the culture. Lateness is laziness. It is Sloth. It is a lack of respect. No matter the culture. Or course this is just my opinion.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AYJAYDEE]

If meeting at a Pub with friends it doesn't really matter.... some are late, sometimes I am...

In the past if meeting for a date, 15 mins was the cut off time. If I waited 15 mins and there was no call or explanation, I'd simply leave.

My last date called me 15 mins before hand to indicate she may be late because of traffic, an excellent start (she was on time anyway !) 7 years later we are married with a child!

In a professional setting: being late is disrespectful, delays are tolerated with a good excuse. However, in general being late shows a lack of respect for the other party. Using 'Thai Culture' as an explanation for this doesn't cut it either. In these cases use of the term Culture is often wrongly used as an excuse to explain something negative. Thai's know how to be on time just like any other nation. There are no secrets. If someone is consistently late for you, they don't respect you.

We've had workers booked to do some interior work: They failed to show on a Friday, promised to come on Monday at 9am, at 9am we called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 9:30am I called them. They told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 10am I called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. I told them to forget it. At 10:15am they called, they were at our apartment, I told them I wasn't interested. The owner called up shortly afterwards and complained about the cost of materials etc in producing our inbuilt furniture that they were about to fit.... Not my problem I told him, If his staff are late and lie to me on the phone I won't use his company (luckily I'd refused to pay a deposit for the work).

For the most part - its not about a delay, its about how respectfully a delay is handled. If someone is late, sending a message is polite. Being respectful of someone else does not end at a cultural crossing... Thai's have no excuses if when they are late, they are just careless...

Example: If meeting someone senior, an official for example, would a Thai be late?... in many cases being late is an actual choice within someones control.

For the most part, all my friends are reasonable time keepers - One exception is a friend and he's handled a different way - when meeting at a pub I don't leave my home until he's called to let me know he's on his way !

Beautifully written. I think anyone with self respect does not tolerate serial lateness. Being late shows a profound disrespect for the person you are meeting. Regardless of culture. If it is important, you simply find a way to he on time.

you are not in a position to say what is disrespectfull in ALL cultures. you are merely expressing your opinion

That is exactly what a forum is about - opinions.

But - FACT - if a person feels disrespected (the Thais are great at highlighting that one) then it is disrespect.

Something may not be intended as offensive but if the recipient is offended then it is offended - this is the basic principle in racism.

the citizens of a country CANNOT be expected to know the sensitivities of every nationality that visits their country! ESPECIALLY if it is at odds with theirs.your claim is silly.

Sloth is Sloth. Does not matter the nation, nor the culture. Lateness is laziness. It is Sloth. It is a lack of respect. No matter the culture. Or course this is just my opinion.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

just because you feel disrespected doesnt mean someone is treating you with disrespect.

[AYJAYDEE]

If meeting at a Pub with friends it doesn't really matter.... some are late, sometimes I am...

In the past if meeting for a date, 15 mins was the cut off time. If I waited 15 mins and there was no call or explanation, I'd simply leave.

My last date called me 15 mins before hand to indicate she may be late because of traffic, an excellent start (she was on time anyway !) 7 years later we are married with a child!

In a professional setting: being late is disrespectful, delays are tolerated with a good excuse. However, in general being late shows a lack of respect for the other party. Using 'Thai Culture' as an explanation for this doesn't cut it either. In these cases use of the term Culture is often wrongly used as an excuse to explain something negative. Thai's know how to be on time just like any other nation. There are no secrets. If someone is consistently late for you, they don't respect you.

We've had workers booked to do some interior work: They failed to show on a Friday, promised to come on Monday at 9am, at 9am we called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 9:30am I called them. They told us 15mins, we're nearly there. At 10am I called them, they told us 15mins, we're nearly there. I told them to forget it. At 10:15am they called, they were at our apartment, I told them I wasn't interested. The owner called up shortly afterwards and complained about the cost of materials etc in producing our inbuilt furniture that they were about to fit.... Not my problem I told him, If his staff are late and lie to me on the phone I won't use his company (luckily I'd refused to pay a deposit for the work).

For the most part - its not about a delay, its about how respectfully a delay is handled. If someone is late, sending a message is polite. Being respectful of someone else does not end at a cultural crossing... Thai's have no excuses if when they are late, they are just careless...

Example: If meeting someone senior, an official for example, would a Thai be late?... in many cases being late is an actual choice within someones control.

For the most part, all my friends are reasonable time keepers - One exception is a friend and he's handled a different way - when meeting at a pub I don't leave my home until he's called to let me know he's on his way !

Beautifully written. I think anyone with self respect does not tolerate serial lateness. Being late shows a profound disrespect for the person you are meeting. Regardless of culture. If it is important, you simply find a way to he on time.

you are not in a position to say what is disrespectfull in ALL cultures. you are merely expressing your opinion

That is exactly what a forum is about - opinions.

But - FACT - if a person feels disrespected (the Thais are great at highlighting that one) then it is disrespect.

Something may not be intended as offensive but if the recipient is offended then it is offended - this is the basic principle in racism.

the citizens of a country CANNOT be expected to know the sensitivities of every nationality that visits their country! ESPECIALLY if it is at odds with theirs.your claim is silly.

Sloth is Sloth. Does not matter the nation, nor the culture. Lateness is laziness. It is Sloth. It is a lack of respect. No matter the culture. Or course this is just my opinion.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

i'm betting thais really arent interested in your opinion

[Jip99]

I would ignorance to the labelling.

It is not unlike someone persistently driving in the right hand lane of a dual carriageway at a slow speed.

It is not right, it is inconvenient and discourteous to other road users but out of ignorance (not culture).

[AYJAYDEE]

I would ignorance to the labelling.

It is not unlike someone persistently driving in the right hand lane of a dual carriageway at a slow speed.

It is not right, it is inconvenient and discourteous to other road users but out of ignorance (not culture).

so thais are expected to know the proclivities of each and every nationality that visits their country? or just those of chauvinistic brits?

[spidermike007]

That is exactly what a forum is about - opinions.

But - FACT - if a person feels disrespected (the Thais are great at highlighting that one) then it is disrespect.

Something may not be intended as offensive but if the recipient is offended then it is offended - this is the basic principle in racism.

the citizens of a country CANNOT be expected to know the sensitivities of every nationality that visits their country! ESPECIALLY if it is at odds with theirs.your claim is silly.

Sloth is Sloth. Does not matter the nation, nor the culture. Lateness is laziness. It is Sloth. It is a lack of respect. No matter the culture. Or course this is just my opinion.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

i'm betting thais really arent interested in your opinion

Thanks for your rather Socratic two cents worth. Frankly, I am not sure I care how much the average Thai is interested in my opinion. My guess is that a small percent read this forum, or care about the opinions we venture forth with. It is mostly for expats, correct? So, I guess I am more interested in what ex-pats think about Thai sloth, when it comes to a lack of punctuality. And this quality is by no means Thai. I have friends and associates in the US that are constantly tardy. It comes from a lack of organizational skills, combined with a lack of planning, and a lack of respect for who you are meeting with, in my humble opinion. These are only theories we are expounding on here. We are just having some fun. And because they are plagued with the need to save face, do you really think many introspect about the case for their constant tardiness? Face prevents much inner growth. But, there I go with another opinion.

[AYJAYDEE]

i love watching the whining of expats that cant accept so much of where they have decided to visit. self abuse is such a hoot to observe