EBR 1190X dyno

[dave_boo]

For all those who haven't been following Erik Buell's new company, here is Cycle World's dyno run where they compared it to the Ducati 1199 Panigale. Quite impressive that they were able to lay down just 6 fewer HP at the top end and keep a pretty nice lead over the Panigale from 4000 to 8500 RPM. Would make a very competent street bike it seems.

[NomadJoe]

You forgot the rule about no posting on bikes without a pic. Wait, that's not a rule? Well it should be.

What a beauty.

[dave_boo]

You forgot the rule about no posting on bikes without a pic. Wait, that's not a rule? Well it should be.

What a beauty.

Yes it is. Love the exposed rivets connecting the fairings. Too bad they would be stupid expensive in LOS...they cost the equivalent of 620K baht in the US. Import taxes and all would push it over 1,3M in the Kingdom.

[RubberSideDown]

The price in LOS would be in the same ballpark as the HP4, Panigale, and RSV Factory, which is fair enough- after the quality control problems of the earlier Buells, I'd need to let this bike go for a couple years before considering it, though.

The 1190RX is a serious motorcycle.

The power curve of the Buell blows away the Panigale on the street- there's as much as a 15hp difference in the mid-range- the 'hit' the Panigale is known for is really just the bike jumping out of the massive horsepower and torque dip at 5K- Ducati sacrificed a lot of the meat of the power-band for peak power.

Edited June 6, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[ATF]

It's $10k US cheaper than the Panigale R but the Panigale can run to almost 190 bhp at the rear wheel just by changing the exhaust, filter and re-map. It also flattens the mid-range dip.

The Buell is a great looking bike but you never know when he's going to go bust again. Hate the look of the single front brake disc, the exhaust looks cool.

An excellent bike nonetheless.

[RubberSideDown]

^

Even the R (which is 2.2m in LOS as opposed to 1.4m for the base model) has the torque dip in the mid-range (it's less-pronounced, but not gone)- it can't be flashed or tuned out of the curve- it's the price the twin-cylinder engine has to pay for that much peak horsepower. On the track the Panigale is a great bike, but on the street it's really lacking in some key areas. I've read every major review and seen many comparison videos, and I've read a lot of owner comments (I considered the bike at one time and looked seriously at the 'S' model), but I just don't put in the track time to justify it, and others 'superbikes' beat it on the street.

Edited June 6, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[ATF]

^

Even the R (which is 2.2m in LOS as opposed to 1.4m for the base model) has the torque dip in the mid-range (it's less-pronounced, but not gone)- it can't be flashed or tuned out of the curve- it's the price the twin-cylinder engine has to pay for that much peak horsepower. On the track the Panigale is a great bike, but on the street it's really lacking in some key areas. I've read every major review and seen many comparison videos, and I've read a lot of owner comments (I considered the bike at one time and looked seriously at the 'S' model), but I just don't put in the track time to justify it, and others 'superbikes' beat it on the street.

RSD I've been seriously looking to get a Panigale and I know it's not the fastest or even best bike out there but I love it's style plus all the aftermarket parts available. Unfortunately I've been getting reports from everyone regarding the heat issue. Apparently it will roast your legs, literally. It will burn your skin. This can be overcome to some extent by changing the bellypan exhaust for a traditional full system and fitting a larger radiator. There are a lot of Panigales being dumped on the market right now and you can get one barely used or through the grey market at a significant discount. I was thinking about getting the base model stripping it and modding it to my spec. The only differences between it and the S model is Showa vs. Ohlins shocks, both have electronic damping, plus the wheels and exhaust which I would want to change anyway.

I am still undecided about this idea but out of all the superbikes I like the Panigale best. Ducatis, you love them or hate them, but the heat problem is the major issue for me. I do track sometimes and it's great with a bunch of friends but otherwise I find it boring, so the bike would be used 99% on the road.

So unless you have any other suggestions I think the KTM 1290 is probably the best alternative .

[RubberSideDown]

^

The Super Duke is a very different motorcycle- it looks like a fun bike, but it's not really an alternative to the Panigale. Something like the HP4 or RSV Factory (a couple were brought in in May for ~1.2m by one of the importers) are in the same class- the ZX-10R is also a monster, but not as sophisticated. Also note the Super Duke is a $17,000 bike for 1.4m baht in LOS- the HP4 Comp is a $25,000 bike for the same 1.4m baht- it's too much of a gouge for the KTM, and it's the same for the Panigale.

As far as the heat issue goes, Ducati started putting in new shielding last year, and it's supposed to have helped- I believe they will retrofit older models for free, but they run hot no matter what you do. You can build up the base model, but the wheel swap alone will be 100K-150K- I think the 300K price difference for the S is worth it, but I also enjoy modding a bike so I see the appeal of personalizing it. It's a gorgeous motorcycle, but it's just not at home on the street, and that's where I do nearly all my riding.

Here's where I'm at- I think I'm going to get the HP4 Standard and eventually replace all the bodywork with CF- I was going to get a Comp, but I plan to swap the aluminum wheels for CF and put them on my 14R, and the blue just won't work so I need the black wheels off the Standard- I'll buy higher-end rear-sets and levers, possibly do an ECU flash, and I'll end up with a significantly better bike (for the street) than the Panigale for about the same price. I could change my mind again, but I'm pretty set- BMW are holding the bike until the 25th for me and will return my deposit if I don't buy it by then- I'll decide soon.

[ATF]

RSD the HP4 is probably the best performing bike out there. I've tried the S1000RR but it's very wide to ride with it's transverse inline four. It just doesn't inspire confidence. Someone I know sold their S1000RR a week after buying it but a very experienced track guy I know uses the HP4 and swears by it. Aprilia has a bad rep in Thailand, no support and they don't tolerate the heat well. I would say the S1000RR and HP4 are really track bikes.

I wouldn't use carbon wheels on the street and it's inevitable they will get destroyed by ignorant tire fitters. Magnesium wheels need to be X-Rayed every one or two years. Better to get a nice set of forged OZ or Marchies. The unsprung weight difference isn't going to be so pronounced on the road.

I'm in the same conundrum myself now. I want a really fast bike but something that can perform well on the road. The KTM does meet this criteria but as you say the price is crazy. Grey market 1290's are available for 1M now, standard Panigale about 1.1M.

[RubberSideDown]

The HP4 actually isn't a terrific track bike due to the DDC suspension (though it can put in great times with a good rider)- if the track were my goal I'd be looking at an S1000RR with full Ohlins front-and-back. While it's definitely wide and not made for traffic, it's not too ergonomically different from any other literbike- if you're not 'confident' on it you won't be confident on any other bike in the class. If someone sold their S1000RR after a week, they were dumb for buying it in the first place- if you don't research your ride and make sure it's what you want, you have no business buying it in the first place.

I would actually trust Arovera with the carbon wheels (they're an authorized distributor for Rotobox). In any case the HP4 comes with forged aluminum wheels that are as good as any other high-end manufacturer, but I will still switch to carbon eventually- at 150K-180K per set it's expensive, but as I said I can use the stock wheels for another application.

If you want a Panigale, the 1290 is no substitute- they are completely different bikes- you need to narrow your focus before spending so much on what is essentially a toy- by all means get one or the other as they're both great bikes, but you need a better idea of exactly what it is you want. 'A really fast , great-handling bike for the road' is a big category. It sounds like you want the Panigale but are trying to talk yourself out of it (I've been there;))- if you really want it, you won't lose much if you find a new one for 1.1m and decide to sell it after a year- if you're a decent wrench, you can easily pull any mods, put the bike back to stock, and sell them as well.

[BSJ]

EB has created some seriously tasty bikes before this one, but this one gets the biggest

"WOW"!

[ATF]

RSD you're right my heart is telling me to get the Panigale. If I used my brain I would get an inline four. I just love V Twins that's why I consider the 1290 an option. All Ducatis need to be "tuned" and they all hate running under 4500 rpm. Whereas the HP4 is a great bike out of the box, no adjustments required. The main difference is a HP4 and other inline 4's give you smooth power delivery on demand whereas a Ducati is like having a Rottweiler pulling you on a leash which I prefer, it's more exciting. Duc's always want to go faster whatever speed you're doing.

I wouldn't ride a bike around BKK period but a Panigale would be a nightmare I agree. However I live near good fast roads with no traffic jams and I don't go on treks. So I just need to satisfy myself regarding the heat problem with the Panigale otherwise I don't know. The Panigale is just so good looking.

[RubberSideDown]

It's going to run hot no matter what you do- you can lessen it a bit, but it will always be an issue. Personally, it wouldn't stop me from buying a Panigale- I'd deal with it if I wanted one.

As far as the inline-4 vs twin goes, linear power is what I want- the dips in the Panigale's curve are what makes it 'feel' faster, rather than actually being faster- power isn't the only consideration for a bike, of course, but you have to look at the type of riding you'll be doing. That's not to say it's not a fast bike- it's extremely fast- I just don't like having to constantly keep a bike on the boil, but you might feel differently- there are certainly Panigale owners who love their bikes.

There's a visceral appeal to the Panigale that other bikes lack- I came really close to putting a deposit on one in April as it's so gorgeous, but I know that for the riding I plan to do, the HP4 would be a better choice (though not necessarily a smart choice- a CBR1000RR would really be more than I need, but a motorcycle choice goes beyond utility and practicality- you want a bike that grabs you by the heart and the balls). I have my reasons for choosing the BMW and I'll share my reasons for not choosing the Panigale with you, but I certainly wouldn't try to talk you out of buying one- for me personally the HP4 is 'it'- for you it sounds like the Panigale is really what you want. I understand being on the fence about it- it's a lot of money- I've been considering a literbike for months, and vacillated quite a bit- I've had a deposit at BMW since January, and now the time has come to finally make the call. What's the worst thing that could happen if you regret the decision? You might lose 100K if you sell it in six months- go for it.

It's completely different from when I decided on the 14R- there are only three bikes in the class (along with the Busa and K1300S)- it was an easy choice- the literbike and fast twin category is pretty big, and it takes a lot of research to make a decision, especially at Thai prices.

Edited June 7, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[ATF]

RSD I'm with you all the way. A CBR1000RR is more bike than any of us require. As you said it's what grabs you by the balls and the Duc does that for me. I wish you good luck with your HP4. I know my friend is very satisfied with it, he worships it! He even keeps it inside his house. He does Bira in 1min 6secs I believe the record is 1 min 3 secs and his HP4 has never seen a dyno.

Take care Man.

[mania]

SUPERBIKE COMPARISON VIDEO: EBR 1190RX v. Ducati 1199 Panigale

Makes you smile or cry? at the beginning when they mention both bikes

at around 600k baht

[H1w4yR1da]

As you said it's what grabs you by the balls

And therein, as the Bard once said, lies the rub.

We can talk all day about hp, mid-ranges and power curves but IMO most of the top litre bikes are amazing. Does any of that technical stuff matter unless you're pushing the bike to it's limit?

The Panigale has the looks but twin-cylinder machines are not to everyone's liking. Especially those used to inline-4's. I am a huge Ducati fan but went from a V-twin to an inline-4 and never looked back.

As it's all down to personal preferences, go with your heart. Get the 'best' bike you can afford and damn the torpedoes.

You only live once!!