U.K. Abolition of Tax Personal Allowance

[billd766]

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Very true. Which is why people should stop relying on governments and look after themselves. Unfortunately most people aren't able to so that, especially in the West.

Sadly you do NOT have a choice as to wether your UK income is taxed or not nor do you have the choice to pay NI contributions. The government of the day on the other hand CAN and DO renege on their legal and moral committments to the people that they take the tax and NI from.

I like many others have missed this whispered announcement and Yes, I will be writing to my MP as I am a registered voter.

[billd766]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

This story is definitely true and is being discussed, so not sure why you think it's not true, unless you're just a troll. Will affect me, as I'm non-resident for tax purposes and therefore assume I wouldn't be considered as having a close connection with UK. I left many years ago and have no intention of returning. So if this tax is introduced I'll be $2K a year worse off, unless I sell my UK properties, which I'm now considering. Not because of this tax, but because now may be a good time to sell - high prices, CTG probably coming next year, etc.

Too late I'm afraid, CGT is already in effect. Had to pay it on one property last year and another this year.

Doesn't apply to your principle residence (unless you're an MP and can juggle this around) but the Ex got that anyway.

Regarding pensions, tax allowances, etc., they don't care about us expats simply because we can't vote.

Many of us expats CAN vote and I for one will use my vote via my proxy in the UK.

[MAJIC]

.you say the Brits dont work as hard as foreigners, yet say that staement the other way round you would be arrested, prosecuted and probably imprisoned.

No you wouldn't.

Correct you would't be arrested or imprisoned, however you would be accused of being a racialist.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Which would more than likely get you jail time,once the Race Card has been played,it's very difficult to disprove!

[Bpuumike]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

This story is definitely true and is being discussed, so not sure why you think it's not true, unless you're just a troll. Will affect me, as I'm non-resident for tax purposes and therefore assume I wouldn't be considered as having a close connection with UK. I left many years ago and have no intention of returning. So if this tax is introduced I'll be $2K a year worse off, unless I sell my UK properties, which I'm now considering. Not because of this tax, but because now may be a good time to sell - high prices, CTG probably coming next year, etc.

Too late I'm afraid, CGT is already in effect. Had to pay it on one property last year and another this year.

Doesn't apply to your principle residence (unless you're an MP and can juggle this around) but the Ex got that anyway.

Regarding pensions, tax allowances, etc., they don't care about us expats simply because we can't vote.

Many of us expats CAN vote and I for one will use my vote via my proxy in the UK.

I had myself taken off the Electoral Roll many years ago. A friend was called to jury service and was not able to work for the 3 months duration of an extended murder trial. At the time I could not afford to be put in the same situation.

All I can do now is complain from the sidelines.

[MAJIC]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Those Ukip "nutters" cannot be any worse than what we have had to put up with from those lieing, hypocritical, thieving scum who have run the UK during the whole of my adult lifetime.

They certainly can.Let's not forget that UKIP EU MPs are elected to represent our interest in the EU. The fact is that they take the cash and rarely bother to turn up so they're doing nothing for us at all.

http://britishinfluence.tumblr.com/post/44607678595/ukip-meps-rarely-bother-to-turn-up

MPs are MPs and UK MPs of both Labour and Tory are all lieing hypocritical bastards, I daresay UKIP MPS would be the same, and if, and that's a big if, Scotland gets it's independence, their MPs will be the same.

All those capitalist rich bastards are the same, take what you can from the ordinary people and give nothing back.

Well it looks like another of the the Politicians has already been caught out,in the form of the first Minister of Scotland and leader of the SNP,Alex Salmond.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2012/10/24/bare-faced-liar-alex-salmond-s-reputation-in-the-mud

[SheungWan]

I am still at a loss to work out the benefit other than to the employer to have access to endless amounts of labour who are willing to work for minimum wage.

I sometimes despair at the amount of people who aren't able to think things through. There are probably countless benefits, but here are just a few to get you started...

Many carers in the UK are from the Philippines. There just aren't enough British people that are willing to do the job. So the benefit is that old people get looked after by caring Philippine people. Without these carers many old people would suffer.

Another benefit - we all get cheaper goods. Keep labour costs down and this keeps the cost of goods down. Many people in the UK complain that things are expensive there, bit they'd be a whole lot more if wages were higher.

Another benefit - we can eat British more fruit and vegetables. These are mostly picked by foreigners, as there aren't many Brits willing to do the work. This helps the environment as well, as it means less produce in imported. Also helps many British farmers survive.

Another benefit - we can get building work done to a high standard by builders with a real work ethic. I've had British and Eat European builders, and the British ones are generally of a much lower standard at a much higher price. And most British builders don't turn up, work an hour or two and leave, etc. East European builders tend to work hard until the job's done. That is my experience.

I could go on and on. But maybe you can learn to think a little and the small list above my get you to think a little outside the box. It's not too difficult once you get started.

Add NHS, hotel and catering industry, supermarkets, local convenience stores.......

[SheungWan]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Those Ukip "nutters" cannot be any worse than what we have had to put up with from those lieing, hypocritical, thieving scum who have run the UK during the whole of my adult lifetime.

They certainly can.Let's not forget that UKIP EU MPs are elected to represent our interest in the EU. The fact is that they take the cash and rarely bother to turn up so they're doing nothing for us at all.

http://britishinfluence.tumblr.com/post/44607678595/ukip-meps-rarely-bother-to-turn-up

MPs are MPs and UK MPs of both Labour and Tory are all lieing hypocritical bastards, I daresay UKIP MPS would be the same, and if, and that's a big if, Scotland gets it's independence, their MPs will be the same.

All those capitalist rich bastards are the same, take what you can from the ordinary people and give nothing back.

Its the chips on shoulders team in town!

[mccw]

What is the point to turn up when out voted every time by a bunch of federalist nibies , passing laws affecting Britain when nobody in Britain voted for them?

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Those Ukip "nutters" cannot be any worse than what we have had to put up with from those lieing, hypocritical, thieving scum who have run the UK during the whole of my adult lifetime.

They certainly can.Let's not forget that UKIP EU MPs are elected to represent our interest in the EU. The fact is that they take the cash and rarely bother to turn up so they're doing nothing for us at all.

http://britishinfluence.tumblr.com/post/44607678595/ukip-meps-rarely-bother-to-turn-up

[mccw]

Back to the op

I'm clearing out of the UK altogether. 0 %

Enough tax already.

I've heard that if buying uk property for example one can form a company (say in Hong Kong) for to buy the property with money loaned from another company (say based in Zero tax caribean). So in UK the loan interest is an allowable expense to offset tax- so practically no tax to pay in UK; no tax to pay in hongkong (foreign earnings) and no tax to pay in carribean (zero tax jurisdiction - British Virgin Island for example).

Obviously the cost to maintain the companies is an issue, but if you have a few properties it could well be worth it.

[sustento]

What is the point to turn up when out voted every time by a bunch of federalist nibies , passing laws affecting Britain when nobody in Britain voted for them?

They certainly can.Let's not forget that UKIP EU MPs are elected to represent our interest in the EU. The fact is that they take the cash and rarely bother to turn up so they're doing nothing for us at all.

http://britishinfluence.tumblr.com/post/44607678595/ukip-meps-rarely-bother-to-turn-up

Because they get paid to. That's their job. If they don't want to do it they shouldn't have stood for election. They're just a bunch of expenses artists - bludgers to a man.

[mccw]

Company shares can also be good for inheritance point of view.

Ie transfer foreign company shares to heirs rather than actual physical UK property and so no uk inheritance tax to pay. (Eg Because the name at land registry does not change.)

Hong Kong gift or inheritance tax on shares is something like 0.1 or 0.2 % , as opposed to what horrible number is it now in uk if over the limit? 30% or something?

[mccw]

What is the point to turn up when out voted every time by a bunch of federalist nibies , passing laws affecting Britain when nobody in Britain voted for them?

They certainly can.Let's not forget that UKIP EU MPs are elected to represent our interest in the EU. The fact is that they take the cash and rarely bother to turn up so they're doing nothing for us at all.

http://britishinfluence.tumblr.com/post/44607678595/ukip-meps-rarely-bother-to-turn-up

Because they get paid to. That's their job. If they don't want to do it they shouldn't have stood for election. They're just a bunch of expenses artists - bludgers to a man.

They just go to stick the finger up now and again. That's what they were elected to do. Nobody voted for UKIP to go join in the drafting of more pointless and costly legislation.

[MAJIC]

No truth in that story at the moment. But if those UKIP nutters got elected very possible

Spoken like a true Tory,who is rightly scared witless,of being out of office at the next Election!

[MAJIC]

I retired (from a good job)in 2011 , and will move full time to Chiang Mai in a few years , when i turn 50. I havent bothered to factor in my "state pension" payments into my finances , as , in 20 (or more) years , there wont be enough money in the pot to may many people much at all. I fear many people banking on a pension -in a few years - wont get one , the state the countrys in.

Indeed Sir the pot is empty, i can see the state pension becoming just another benifit, those who bothered to save in private pensions getting pennies, at least i'm not in my thirites, they won't see it or they will be waiting til their mid-late 70's to get a bit.

"Indeed Sir the pot is empty"

I'm afraid there never has been a Pension Pot,it was designed to take in contributions and then pay out to current Pensioners,yet more bad planning by our Politicians,and Civil Servants.

If any company today were to start up a similar Pension Scheme with no growth, they would probably be jailed for Fraud!

[delboy]

If tax allowances for expats were to be abolished, would it be possible for us to choose to be taxed under the Thai income tax instead of the UK system?

[Old Guy]

Delboy: Yes you can. I had a letter from the Inland Revenue about seven months ago noting I was living in Thailand and actually suggesting it might be in my interest to go over to the Thai system, as the U.K. and Thailand have a reciprocal agreement. (Maybe they knew about the forthcoming proposal !). I replied that it would be more advantageous for me to stay with the present U.K. authority, but said I wanted to keep my options open. Possibly just as well.

[Pormax]

If tax allowances for expats were to be abolished, would it be possible for us to choose to be taxed under the Thai income tax instead of the UK system?

Yes If you are resident in Thailand for more than 6 months one can opt to pay income tax in Thailand and on my reckoning with the Thai personal allowances for those over 65 and with pensions/income of around 10,000GBP per year one would be more than1,000GBP better off should the UK abolish personal tax allowance for expats. If married then with spouse allowance this could be reduced by about 50%.

Over 65 and in Thailand there is a personal allowance of 190,000B, Not over 65 then an allowance of 150,00B, then there is a 5% tax on income over that amount up to 300,00B then 10% tax up to 500,00B then 15% up to 750,000B. and then 20% up to 1 million baht

I will be in this situation in the near future (no where near the 1 million baht mark unfortunately ) so could well be an option for me.

It does seem that with this dual taxation agreement in place for many countries the UK government will, if they go ahead with this proposal, be forcing many expats to change over and then in turn will be in effect be boosting other countries economies.

Does one know if you change a Private pension into QROPS do you still have to declare any drawdown funds to the UK taxman.

[phusingpete]

If tax allowances for expats were to be abolished, would it be possible for us to choose to be taxed under the Thai income tax instead of the UK system?

Yes If you are resident in Thailand for more than 6 months one can opt to pay income tax in Thailand and on my reckoning with the Thai personal allowances for those over 65 and with pensions/income of around 10,000GBP per year one would be more than1,000GBP better off should the UK abolish personal tax allowance for expats. If married then with spouse allowance this could be reduced by about 50%.

Over 65 and in Thailand there is a personal allowance of 190,000B, Not over 65 then an allowance of 150,00B, then there is a 5% tax on income over that amount up to 300,00B then 10% tax up to 500,00B then 15% up to 750,000B. and then 20% up to 1 million baht

I will be in this situation in the near future (no where near the 1 million baht mark unfortunately ) so could well be an option for me.

It does seem that with this dual taxation agreement in place for many countries the UK government will, if they go ahead with this proposal, be forcing many expats to change over and then in turn will be in effect be boosting other countries economies.

Does one know if you change a Private pension into QROPS do you still have to declare any drawdown funds to the UK taxman.

Would this apply to all pensions, State pension, Teachers pensions etc ?

[Bpuumike]

If tax allowances for expats were to be abolished, would it be possible for us to choose to be taxed under the Thai income tax instead of the UK system?

Yes If you are resident in Thailand for more than 6 months one can opt to pay income tax in Thailand and on my reckoning with the Thai personal allowances for those over 65 and with pensions/income of around 10,000GBP per year one would be more than1,000GBP better off should the UK abolish personal tax allowance for expats. If married then with spouse allowance this could be reduced by about 50%.

Over 65 and in Thailand there is a personal allowance of 190,000B, Not over 65 then an allowance of 150,00B, then there is a 5% tax on income over that amount up to 300,00B then 10% tax up to 500,00B then 15% up to 750,000B. and then 20% up to 1 million baht

I will be in this situation in the near future (no where near the 1 million baht mark unfortunately ) so could well be an option for me.

It does seem that with this dual taxation agreement in place for many countries the UK government will, if they go ahead with this proposal, be forcing many expats to change over and then in turn will be in effect be boosting other countries economies.

Does one know if you change a Private pension into QROPS do you still have to declare any drawdown funds to the UK taxman.

Would this apply to all pensions, State pension, Teachers pensions etc ?

In fact the question is: would Thai tax apply to worldwide income?

[Pormax]

If tax allowances for expats were to be abolished, would it be possible for us to choose to be taxed under the Thai income tax instead of the UK system?

Yes If you are resident in Thailand for more than 6 months one can opt to pay income tax in Thailand and on my reckoning with the Thai personal allowances for those over 65 and with pensions/income of around 10,000GBP per year one would be more than1,000GBP better off should the UK abolish personal tax allowance for expats. If married then with spouse allowance this could be reduced by about 50%.

Over 65 and in Thailand there is a personal allowance of 190,000B, Not over 65 then an allowance of 150,00B, then there is a 5% tax on income over that amount up to 300,00B then 10% tax up to 500,00B then 15% up to 750,000B. and then 20% up to 1 million baht

I will be in this situation in the near future (no where near the 1 million baht mark unfortunately ) so could well be an option for me.

It does seem that with this dual taxation agreement in place for many countries the UK government will, if they go ahead with this proposal, be forcing many expats to change over and then in turn will be in effect be boosting other countries economies.

Does one know if you change a Private pension into QROPS do you still have to declare any drawdown funds to the UK taxman.

Would this apply to all pensions, State pension, Teachers pensions etc ?

In fact the question is: would Thai tax apply to worldwide income?

I might be wrong but if one wanted to go down this path then any monies bought into Thailand can be counted as income.

There are so many counties that have a dual Taxation agreement with each other, as for an example with QROPS then Malta has this agreement with Thailand but Gibraltar for instance does not.

I am not too sure about government pensions such as Government pensions such as Retirement pensions, civil servants or those who have an Armed Forces Pension.

This I am in the proceeds of looking into. When I get what I consider to be a reliable answer then I will post again.

[chiang mai]

In fact the question is: would Thai tax apply to worldwide income?

You are only liable to Thai tax on income in the year that it was earned and remitted, not solely in the year it was remitted.

Edited July 12, 2014 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

Many expats are already using that tax free allowance in Thailand for fixed deposit savings, if they loose that because they want to use it for pension income, they have to find another market with interest rates that are equally as good and that's quite difficult.

[Lite Beer]

Paying tax on your State Pension
Your tax position will depend on:
- whether you're classed as 'non-UK resident' for tax purposes
- the country in which you're living

If you spend part of your time in the UK and part abroad you're likely to be classed as a UK resident. If you move abroad permanently, you're likely to be classed as a non-UK resident.

If you are a non-resident your tax position depends on whether you live in a country with a 'double taxation agreement' with the UK. This means you won't have to pay UK tax on your State Pension, but it will be taxable in the country where you live.

If you live in a country without a 'double taxation agreement', you'll have to pay UK tax and may be taxed again abroad.

It's a good idea to get advice about paying tax on your State Pension if you live abroad. You can contact HMRC Residency.

http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/content/your-pension-while-abroad

[Lite Beer]

Will I pay tax on my UK state pension when I live abroad?

The tax arrangements for UK state pensions paid abroad are complex and depend on where you are habitually resident. If you spend most of your year abroad, then it is likely you will be classed as a non-UK resident.

Non-UK residents pay tax on their UK state pension in the country where they live. In some cases you may live in a country that does not have a ‘double taxation’ agreement with the UK, and in such cases you may have to pay tax in the UK and abroad.

http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/tax/retirement/state_pension/9586.html

[Pormax]

I have made some investigations.

Although UK and Thailand does have a Double Taxation Agreement I have a gut feeling this does not allow for the tax on 'Government' paid pensions to be paid in Thailand. The tax has to be paid in the UK. Tax on other income sources can be paid in Thailand.

From what I have read on the web some countries mainly those in the EU, such as Cyprus, do allow this but not Thailand.

Not good news as I have an Armed forces Pension plus will soon get the State Pension so if the Personal Tax Allowance for expats is removed, I stand to lose well over 2,000GBP a year.

I will make further checks as legislation is continually changing and report back on what I find out..

[billd766]

Just out of curiousity I Googled Thai income tax rates for 2014 and came up with this in English.

I did a copy and paste into word and it comes out in the attachment.

I also found out that I can claim 30,000 baht a year for my wife's mother and father, 15,000 per child (up to 3 children) in full time schooling to age 25, an additional 2,000 if the child is in school in Thailand.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Personal Income Tax for 2014.doc

[billd766]

I have made some investigations.

Although UK and Thailand does have a Double Taxation Agreement I have a gut feeling this does not allow for the tax on 'Government' paid pensions to be paid in Thailand. The tax has to be paid in the UK. Tax on other income sources can be paid in Thailand.

From what I have read on the web some countries mainly those in the EU, such as Cyprus, do allow this but not Thailand.

Not good news as I have an Armed forces Pension plus will soon get the State Pension so if the Personal Tax Allowance for expats is removed, I stand to lose well over 2,000GBP a year.

I will make further checks as legislation is continually changing and report back on what I find out..

Sadly I am in agreement with you there as I get the UK State Pension, an Armed Forces Pension and a company pension and the last time I asked several years ago I was told that for pensions earned through the UK they will be taxed in the UK. It may have changed of course but from experience I have found that when the government gets its grubby claws into your money it doesn't want to let it go.

[chiang mai]

I believe that income that arises in the UK that cannot be moved offshore, i.e. a state pension, must be taxed at source and cannot be the subject of a double taxation treaty. It can of course be subject to personal allowance deductions, if applicable.

[Old Guy]

Pormax: where do you get your 150,000 and 190,000 baht ( '+ 65 years old') figures from ? The official Thai website quoted on 12/7 by billd does not mention this.

[Old Guy]

Pormax: where do you get your figures of 150,000 and 190,000 (relating to over 65) from ? billd766 on 12/7 quoted the official Thai tax guide which made no mention thereof.