Thai institute leads calls to scrap flood agency

[webfact]

Institute leads calls to scrap flood agency
JUTARAT TIPNUMPA
THE NATION

NCPO URGED TO SET UP NEW ORGANISATION TO DEAL WITH- WATER-MANAGEMENT ISSUES

BANGKOK: -- THE ENGINEERING Institute of Thailand has recommended scrapping the Water and Flood Management Commission (WFMC) along with its Bt350-billion water-management modules.

Several panellists at a seminar, held by the institute yesterday to address the mega projects, shared the same stance.

"After the scrapping, the National Council for Peace and Order [NCPO] may decide later whether some of the projects should be revived," Suwatana Chittaladakorn, who heads the institute's Water Resource Engineering subcommittee, said.

Pramote Maiklad, former director-general of the Royal Irrigation Department, said the NCPO should set up a new organisation to handle water-management issues instead.

According to Suwatana, the WFMC has exerted dominance over relevant government agencies to a point that they become worried about making clear decisions.

"So, we need a new organisation that will encourage joint management, not to constitute interference in the works of existing agencies," Suwatana said.

He said his institute would submit its recommendation - including its proposed solutions to the country's water problems - to the NCPO.

Last month, the NCPO came to power via a bloodless coup.

The previous government established the WFMC in the wake of the 2011 flood crisis and approved a massive budget for the overhaul of Thailand's water-management system.

The water-management modules prepared by the WFMC, however, have been met with widespread cynicism.

Criticism grew even further after the WFMC suspiciously rushed into bidding process and naming successful bidders.

Seub Nakhasathien Foundation's Sasin Chalermlarp is among the prominent figures questioning the preparations of the Bt350-billion water-management modules.

"The Mae Wong Dam is included in the modules after a work panel dismissed any of its members who raised concerns about the dam's impacts," he said.

Suwatana said his institute had long expressed concerns about the Bt350-billion water-management modules because they had not yet been subject to proper feasibility studies and public hearings.

"We agree that projects for tackling floods and drought are necessary. It's just that they should be carefully implemented for public benefit," he said.

Captain Chayakorn Phanla, who is on the NCPO team for social psychology, said he would compile information from yesterday's seminar for the NCPO to consider.

"NCPO chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha has paid much attention to this issue," he said, adding that the NCPO was indeed preparing to set up a water-management panel.


-- The Nation 2014-06-12

[siampolee]

Yet again it seems as if certain projects were nothing more than conduits to allow the floods of money to be diverted to political pockets of flood plains.

Perhaps we are hopefully starting to see a clean up of the action concerning the allocation of government funds.

Let us hope this encouraging measure continues and stems the river of corruption even further.

[Robby nz]

According to Suwatana, the WFMC has exerted dominance over relevant government agencies to a point that they become worried about making clear decisions

Quite a damning statement that one, dictatorship may have been farther down the track than most realized.

"The Mae Wong Dam is included in the modules after a work panel dismissed any of its members who raised concerns about the dam's impacts,"

And another one, any dissent and you will be kicked out.

[Stradavarius37]

Another steaming Thaksin sh#t pile being swept away. Junta seems determined to put Thailand in dry dock and completely refit the country. Good for them!

[clockman]

They will have to build more jails!

[thumper101]

I hope before they scrap this scheme, they first conduct a complete audit of all the government money that has already been sunk into it..... EVERY last baht must be justified with very severe consequences for any non-justification such as 100 Million baht on surveys etc....

[Chao Lao Beach]

Why doesn't Thailand build more dams ?

Help stop the annual floods and relieve the yearly drought, maybe even make em hydro ?

[chainarong]

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According to Suwatana, the WFMC has exerted dominance over relevant government agencies to a point that they become worried about making clear decisions

Quite a damning statement that one, dictatorship may have been farther down the track than most realized.

"The Mae Wong Dam is included in the modules after a work panel dismissed any of its members who raised concerns about the dam's impacts,"

And another one, any dissent and you will be kicked out.

It was for quiet sometime at PTP, if you questioned you where out the door, as I said the other day , they are now saying what needs to be said not what they want to hear.

[chainarong]

This agency was set up by Yingluck Shinawatra to be seen to be doing something , but doing nothing at all, if talking got the job done on this and other projects instigated by PTP they would be world winners, instead you are left with zilch, absolutely nothing was achieved except a lot of wasted money and time.

[Eric Loh]

Thailand have been talking about water management for decades while every year we have floods and drought. It's exactly that. Lots of talks, opinions and recommendations but none have the guts to implement and put something on the table. We can continue to have panels after panels of discussion and accomodate evey activists opinions for more years to come while the common people endured the hardship. The educated talk and the uneducated suffer.

[rickirs]

At the end of the day the weather doesn't care about politics, corruption, or mismanagement. Rains fall, watersheds backup, crops ruined, properties destroyed, and cities flood. Businesses shutdown and people evacuate or die. You must balance urgency with cost in implementing flood control projects. While it's important to be as exacting as possible in evaluating environmental impacts and developing efficient engineering designs, time is not in south Thailand's favor. A series of interim preventative projects are as expedient than one grand project.

[kuiburi]

There is one country that works allover the world succesfully .

So get the Dutch in , in such huge and risky projects .

Also , the Dutch are not keen on corruption ( probably the reason why they where not asked for the water management scheme )

From what I remember PTP went to Bulgaria for the water management scheme . That really boggles the mind .

[chotthee]

Cancel all, and start re-bid again.

This will make Thai people happy, because the new bid is administrated by the army, whom are known to be corruption free.

[rubl]

Lots of obfuscation again to suggest that it's not as bad as it would seem. The Yingluck administration was really concerned, tried to get a woman's touchgrip on it, only force through centralized politbureau like decision making and execution because of that.

In January 2012 a special decree to borrow 350 billion Baht because it was too urgent to get proper funding in the National Budget. ONe and a half year later desperate actions to quickly get contracts signed in order to get the 350 billion spread out before the decree expired and the money would no longer be available. All for the good of the country of course, the locals just didn't know their luck the Yingluck administration wanted to manage their water without bothering about Environmental Impact Studies or local involvement.

[Stan7444]

Thailand have been talking about water management for decades while every year we have floods and drought. It's exactly that. Lots of talks, opinions and recommendations but none have the guts to implement and put something on the table. We can continue to have panels after panels of discussion and accomodate evey activists opinions for more years to come while the common people endured the hardship. The educated talk and the uneducated suffer.

With my company being focused entirely upon flood prevention and water management, having spoken at and attended many flood related conferences and seminars in Thailand, your comment could not be more correct. One of the common problems, in addition to flood prevention and mitigation, is the lack of a long-term consistent government for this country, which has a plan which will be implemented and then not changed due to politically motivated reasons when another gov't takes over. Just look at the number of PMs and gov't's Thailand has had over the last 12+ years. There is no consistency on national policies for floods or other critically important national issues. This is one reason that the last gov't wanted to go outside of the regular Palimentary budget cycle for some mega-projects so the MPs could not kill such budgets based upon a new gov't coming into power. There are floods every year, with different intensities dependent upon many factors, with people suffering and property damage. The current coup gov't can either wait to investigate all factors and contractors for the 350 Billion National Water Management Plan, along with environmental reports and local hearings, or take some action immediately to prevent loss of lives and property. In some cases, fast tracking decisions are necessary.

[Eric Loh]

Thailand have been talking about water management for decades while every year we have floods and drought. It's exactly that. Lots of talks, opinions and recommendations but none have the guts to implement and put something on the table. We can continue to have panels after panels of discussion and accomodate evey activists opinions for more years to come while the common people endured the hardship. The educated talk and the uneducated suffer.

With my company being focused entirely upon flood prevention and water management, having spoken at and attended many flood related conferences and seminars in Thailand, your comment could not be more correct. One of the common problems, in addition to flood prevention and mitigation, is the lack of a long-term consistent government for this country, which has a plan which will be implemented and then not changed due to politically motivated reasons when another gov't takes over. Just look at the number of PMs and gov't's Thailand has had over the last 12+ years. There is no consistency on national policies for floods or other critically important national issues. This is one reason that the last gov't wanted to go outside of the regular Palimentary budget cycle for some mega-projects so the MPs could not kill such budgets based upon a new gov't coming into power. There are floods every year, with different intensities dependent upon many factors, with people suffering and property damage. The current coup gov't can either wait to investigate all factors and contractors for the 350 Billion National Water Management Plan, along with environmental reports and local hearings, or take some action immediately to prevent loss of lives and property. In some cases, fast tracking decisions are necessary.

Excellent post. Infrastructure projects have long tem gestation period and also long term financing. Truncated tenureship of government and inconsistency as you stated are a bane to long term infrastructure projects. The problem here also extend to the courts who play government and intrude into the legislative wing. People don't understand that infrastructure projects need long term financing and projects have gestation lag before it start to yield revenues. Annual budget is just not suitable for long term financing and doesn't give government chance to negotiate for better loan terms.

People complain about the WFMC exerting dominance. The opposite can happen when projects accommodate too much suggestions and recommendations and nothing can be done. Then whose suggestions and recommendations are you going to accept. So this goes on and on.

The previous government has completed a plan and even detailed down to modules, cost analysis and evaluation. The current administration would do well to review and modify, subject to EIA evaluation but will be foolish and time wasting if they hope to initiate something different and new. I believe the good general has better common sense than anti government activists.

[fab4]

With my company being focused entirely upon flood prevention and water management, having spoken at and attended many flood related conferences and seminars in Thailand, your comment could not be more correct. One of the common problems, in addition to flood prevention and mitigation, is the lack of a long-term consistent government for this country, which has a plan which will be implemented and then not changed due to politically motivated reasons when another gov't takes over. Just look at the number of PMs and gov't's Thailand has had over the last 12+ years. There is no consistency on national policies for floods or other critically important national issues. This is one reason that the last gov't wanted to go outside of the regular Palimentary budget cycle for some mega-projects so the MPs could not kill such budgets based upon a new gov't coming into power. There are floods every year, with different intensities dependent upon many factors, with people suffering and property damage. The current coup gov't can either wait to investigate all factors and contractors for the 350 Billion National Water Management Plan, along with environmental reports and local hearings, or take some action immediately to prevent loss of lives and property. In some cases, fast tracking decisions are necessary.

Excellent post. Infrastructure projects have long tem gestation period and also long term financing. Truncated tenureship of government and inconsistency as you stated are a bane to long term infrastructure projects. The problem here also extend to the courts who play government and intrude into the legislative wing. People don't understand that infrastructure projects need long term financing and projects have gestation lag before it start to yield revenues. Annual budget is just not suitable for long term financing and doesn't give government chance to negotiate for better loan terms.

People complain about the WFMC exerting dominance. The opposite can happen when projects accommodate too much suggestions and recommendations and nothing can be done. Then whose suggestions and recommendations are you going to accept. So this goes on and on.

The previous government has completed a plan and even detailed down to modules, cost analysis and evaluation. The current administration would do well to review and modify, subject to EIA evaluation but will be foolish and time wasting if they hope to initiate something different and new. I believe the good general has better common sense than anti government activists.

A basic breakdown of the former governments proposed flood prevention works and costs involved can be found here http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/19/us-thailand-flood-fb-idUSTRE80I0C320120119

One thing that is usually glossed over in the rush to condemn the spending (calculated to raise the ratio of public debt to GDP by 2-3 percentage points) was the fact that the Flood Agency (in theory at least) pulled together all the disparate agencies concerned with water management in Thailand.

Water retention management in Thailand has to deal with the three demands of Irrigation, Power Generation and Flood Control with all the different agencies and different viewpoints that go along with those disciplines.

Remember the political spat played out between the Flood Agency and the "Democrat" Governor of Bangkok? Now multiply that by 17.

As part of its water management plan, the Government has established a single command center for unified operations in water management. The single command authority is responsible for coordinating water management work, and 17 agencies dealing with water management in the country are now working in the center.

http://thailand.prd.go.th/view_news.php?id=6761&a=2

If the Junta get rid of the Flood Agency on the behest of the EIT the replacement better be able to take on this role. I suspect that the willy waving by the EIT has something to do with the relationship between the Flood Agency and the various other agencies involved - sounds like they didn't like being told what to do after decades of inefficient isolation.

Pramote Maiklad, former director-general of the Royal Irrigation Department, said the NCPO should set up a new organisation to handle water-management issues instead.

According to Suwatana, the WFMC has exerted dominance over relevant government agencies to a point that they become worried about making clear decisions.

"So, we need a new organisation that will encourage joint management, not to constitute interference in the works of existing agencies," Suwatana said.

He said his institute would submit its recommendation - including its proposed solutions to the country's water problems - to the NCPO.

[khunken]

A few points.

In the 2012 floods the FROC totally mismanaged the flooding by refusing to listen or ignoring what some people who had some knowledge of the subject had to say. It was exacerbated by appointing Mr Plod - a buffoon who 'contributed' wacky ideas and tolerated no input from anyone.

The WFMC was then set up with the same idiot in charge. Get the money first by 'urgent' decree, come up with plans and then try to implement those plans with no EIAs, no input from local people and no input from outside experts. It was a disastrous misappropriation of funds. Yes agencies need to be brought together and yes the country needs flood abatement as well as irrigation projects (maybe a conflict there needs resolution) but it needs more than anything to get it right. It is much harder to undo wrongly implemented projects than to start them The Moon river Egat dam comes to mind as a project with very little benefit and an awful lot of hardship to local fisherfolk.

It needs expertise with little or no political interference to gradually implement projects that are accepted by the majority of local people by fully explaining both the benefits and drawbacks - transparency in a nutshell.

Edited June 12, 2014 by khunken

[Eric Loh]

With my company being focused entirely upon flood prevention and water management, having spoken at and attended many flood related conferences and seminars in Thailand, your comment could not be more correct. One of the common problems, in addition to flood prevention and mitigation, is the lack of a long-term consistent government for this country, which has a plan which will be implemented and then not changed due to politically motivated reasons when another gov't takes over. Just look at the number of PMs and gov't's Thailand has had over the last 12+ years. There is no consistency on national policies for floods or other critically important national issues. This is one reason that the last gov't wanted to go outside of the regular Palimentary budget cycle for some mega-projects so the MPs could not kill such budgets based upon a new gov't coming into power. There are floods every year, with different intensities dependent upon many factors, with people suffering and property damage. The current coup gov't can either wait to investigate all factors and contractors for the 350 Billion National Water Management Plan, along with environmental reports and local hearings, or take some action immediately to prevent loss of lives and property. In some cases, fast tracking decisions are necessary.

Excellent post. Infrastructure projects have long tem gestation period and also long term financing. Truncated tenureship of government and inconsistency as you stated are a bane to long term infrastructure projects. The problem here also extend to the courts who play government and intrude into the legislative wing. People don't understand that infrastructure projects need long term financing and projects have gestation lag before it start to yield revenues. Annual budget is just not suitable for long term financing and doesn't give government chance to negotiate for better loan terms.

People complain about the WFMC exerting dominance. The opposite can happen when projects accommodate too much suggestions and recommendations and nothing can be done. Then whose suggestions and recommendations are you going to accept. So this goes on and on.

The previous government has completed a plan and even detailed down to modules, cost analysis and evaluation. The current administration would do well to review and modify, subject to EIA evaluation but will be foolish and time wasting if they hope to initiate something different and new. I believe the good general has better common sense than anti government activists.

A basic breakdown of the former governments proposed flood prevention works and costs involved can be found here http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/19/us-thailand-flood-fb-idUSTRE80I0C320120119

One thing that is usually glossed over in the rush to condemn the spending (calculated to raise the ratio of public debt to GDP by 2-3 percentage points) was the fact that the Flood Agency (in theory at least) pulled together all the disparate agencies concerned with water management in Thailand.

Water retention management in Thailand has to deal with the three demands of Irrigation, Power Generation and Flood Control with all the different agencies and different viewpoints that go along with those disciplines.

Remember the political spat played out between the Flood Agency and the "Democrat" Governor of Bangkok? Now multiply that by 17.

As part of its water management plan, the Government has established a single command center for unified operations in water management. The single command authority is responsible for coordinating water management work, and 17 agencies dealing with water management in the country are now working in the center.

http://thailand.prd.go.th/view_news.php?id=6761&a=2

If the Junta get rid of the Flood Agency on the behest of the EIT the replacement better be able to take on this role. I suspect that the willy waving by the EIT has something to do with the relationship between the Flood Agency and the various other agencies involved - sounds like they didn't like being told what to do after decades of inefficient isolation.

Pramote Maiklad, former director-general of the Royal Irrigation Department, said the NCPO should set up a new organisation to handle water-management issues instead.

According to Suwatana, the WFMC has exerted dominance over relevant government agencies to a point that they become worried about making clear decisions.

"So, we need a new organisation that will encourage joint management, not to constitute interference in the works of existing agencies," Suwatana said.

He said his institute would submit its recommendation - including its proposed solutions to the country's water problems - to the NCPO.

Hope Suwatana will made his recommendation soon as he provide no time frame. Also hope his confidence in getting all the agencies to work together will be realized. For a fact, government agencies never work cohesively in Thailand. As a army man, General Prayuth understand the value of a central command in getting long term, multi facets and coordination done in an efficient and effective way.