Shinawatra-initiated funds under scrutiny

[Robby nz]

There is little doubt that the more disadvantaged villages and the people in them need assistance but the way things are arranged at present only gives opportunity for fraud and corruption.

OK to be positive :

First step is to make all provincial governors elected instead of appointed, that makes them answerable to the people and not politicians. Democracy even.

Then replace the village heads with elected village committees (non or minimum paid). This democracy thing is getting out of hand.

Set up a national village development fund from which the village committees can apply for funding for specific projects under set criteria, for instance education, health, social development ETC.

These projects applications must have a budget and when finished within a set time frame must provide an audit of funds.

Adjacent villages can get together and make applications, for instance where more than one village is serviced by one school or where there is an irrigation or flood prevention scheme that would benefit more than one village.

The development fund would have the ability to call on other Govt departments and agencies for assistance financially or physically, for instance the education ministry in the case of a new school being needed.

The development fund would have an inspection team that would go out and look at all projects applied for and check again when they are completed.

The development fund would be regionally based with a central head office.

This would not only get the village needs addressed but would also get any greater needs or local solutions through to those in authority.

Anyone else want to have a go at positivity ?

[Morch]

The Woman Empowerment presence in our neck of the rice fields manifests as a somewhat rundown shack, untended yard,

tattered poster of Yingluck, and usually a couple ore more old geezers having a drink at the front. If there's any money involved, it's either not a whole lot or long gone before put to any decent use.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Morch

[chotthee]

It will be good to cancel the LTF program, and recover all tax rebate (from Thaksin) given out to the rich.

[ggold]

For those that say this was a vote buying scam, you are totaly wrong. The village funds were set up to give soft loans to the villagers to be able to buy fertilizers or seeds for crops etc, they paid a nominal interest rate and had to pay it back, or they could not get a loan in the future.

[rubl]

The Village Fund was continued and adopted by Ahbisit government. He see value in that fund too.

Or he just did not have the power to stop it, knowing people would rise up.

Now we got someone who is not afraid of red threats and the fund can be really examined. If it is good please keep it.

I bet me and other people on the side of light love reading everyday how all the crap that Taksin did is slowly being destroyed how his power-base gets destroyed so he can never ever come back. The guy overreached.. gambled and blew it all getting his whole clan into trouble (actually the whole country) just for his amnesty.

Don't think that was the reason as the loans only reaches about 30% of all households. I think he allowed the scheme to continue because the fund have been steady and don't need any infusion of government funds. The scheme has been running well as a microcredit financing and is socially correct so why stop as it cost nothing to his government. I have strong believe that the NCPO will continue this scheme which really has won lots of praise from local and international peers.

and because of the Village Fund success the Pheu Thai promised to restock it with another 1,000,000 Baht when they would be elected. Not because the village funds really needed restocking of course

[gemini81]

The Village Fund was continued and adopted by Ahbisit government. He see value in that fund too.

Or he just did not have the power to stop it, knowing people would rise up.

Now we got someone who is not afraid of red threats and the fund can be really examined. If it is good please keep it.

I bet me and other people on the side of light love reading everyday how all the crap that Taksin did is slowly being destroyed how his power-base gets destroyed so he can never ever come back. The guy overreached.. gambled and blew it all getting his whole clan into trouble (actually the whole country) just for his amnesty.

Don't think that was the reason as the loans only reaches about 30% of all households. I think he allowed the scheme to continue because the fund have been steady and don't need any infusion of government funds. The scheme has been running well as a microcredit financing and is socially correct so why stop as it cost nothing to his government. I have strong believe that the NCPO will continue this scheme which really has won lots of praise from local and international peers.

and because of the Village Fund success the Pheu Thai promised to restock it with another 1,000,000 Baht when they would be elected. Not because the village funds really needed restocking of course

Only things they stock up there, as the Army has showed, was collections of outdated weapons in which they're too stupid to even know how to use correctly. Hope some basic needs and education are met, and some programs implemented for rural folk; got a long, long way to go in terms of progress for the poor. When the army is in charge, we see the progress without the interference of self serving fiefdoms which have plagued Thailand for years and years.

Edited June 12, 2014 by gemini81

[Eric Loh]

The Village Fund was continued and adopted by Ahbisit government. He see value in that fund too.

Or he just did not have the power to stop it, knowing people would rise up.

Now we got someone who is not afraid of red threats and the fund can be really examined. If it is good please keep it.

I bet me and other people on the side of light love reading everyday how all the crap that Taksin did is slowly being destroyed how his power-base gets destroyed so he can never ever come back. The guy overreached.. gambled and blew it all getting his whole clan into trouble (actually the whole country) just for his amnesty.

Don't think that was the reason as the loans only reaches about 30% of all households. I think he allowed the scheme to continue because the fund have been steady and don't need any infusion of government funds. The scheme has been running well as a microcredit financing and is socially correct so why stop as it cost nothing to his government. I have strong believe that the NCPO will continue this scheme which really has won lots of praise from local and international peers.

and because of the Village Fund success the Pheu Thai promised to restock it with another 1,000,000 Baht when they would be elected. Not because the village funds really needed restocking of course

You shouldn't not take information out of context. The reason for the additional funding is to enable the funds to expend the memberships and elevate them to become a bank. This fund started as a social project and the elevation to a bank will allow more innovative initiatives to provide to their members. See, sounds much more balance than truncated information.

[pahang]

What could possibly go wrong with a conduit like Nalinee running the show?


Women Empowerment Fund

7.7 Billion Baht

Scheme run by PM's Office Minister Nalinee Taveesin AKA "Crony" of African Strongman Mugabe

http://www.icij.org/offshore/mugabe-crony-among-thai-names-secret-offshore-files

[jaidam]

What could possibly go wrong with a conduit like Nalinee running the show?

Women Empowerment Fund

7.7 Billion Baht

Scheme run by PM's Office Minister Nalinee Taveesin AKA "Crony" of African Strongman Mugabe

http://www.icij.org/offshore/mugabe-crony-among-thai-names-secret-offshore-files

One of the more disgraceful acts of the Shin regime. Cozying up to big Bob Mugabe(and other African dictators), and getting into trouble with the USA for assisting the mugabe's money laundering. I'm surprised. You would not expect a democratic govt that champions justice, no double standards and the lives of the poor to act in such a way as to perpetuate untold suffering of the poor Zimbabweans. Unless of course......

[rubl]

and because of the Village Fund success the Pheu Thai promised to restock it with another 1,000,000 Baht when they would be elected. Not because the village funds really needed restocking of course

You shouldn't not take information out of context. The reason for the additional funding is to enable the funds to expend the memberships and elevate them to become a bank. This fund started as a social project and the elevation to a bank will allow more innovative initiatives to provide to their members. See, sounds much more balance than truncated information.

A bank, yet another State Owned bank? Banking license, Tier I and II capital, Basil I/II/III, etc., etc.?

BTW the village funds didn't start as a social project, but as a Thaksin election gift which was squandered away in many cases.

See, that sound harsher than your BS, but the truth is not always nice

[Eric Loh]

What could possibly go wrong with a conduit like Nalinee running the show?

Women Empowerment Fund

7.7 Billion Baht

Scheme run by PM's Office Minister Nalinee Taveesin AKA "Crony" of African Strongman Mugabe

http://www.icij.org/offshore/mugabe-crony-among-thai-names-secret-offshore-files

Everyone can have a chance to be a born again good guy and walk in the path of righteousness following the fine example of Kamnan Suthep.

[Eric Loh]

and because of the Village Fund success the Pheu Thai promised to restock it with another 1,000,000 Baht when they would be elected. Not because the village funds really needed restocking of course

You shouldn't not take information out of context. The reason for the additional funding is to enable the funds to expend the memberships and elevate them to become a bank. This fund started as a social project and the elevation to a bank will allow more innovative initiatives to provide to their members. See, sounds much more balance than truncated information.

A bank, yet another State Owned bank? Banking license, Tier I and II capital, Basil I/II/III, etc., etc.?

BTW the village funds didn't start as a social project, but as a Thaksin election gift which was squandered away in many cases.

See, that sound harsher than your BS, but the truth is not always nice

Sorry mine was taken out of a newspaper report. Yours was a personal opinion and a BS no doubt.

[rubl]

Sorry mine was taken out of a newspaper report. Yours was a personal opinion and a BS no doubt.

"The reason for the additional funding is to enable the funds to expend the memberships and elevate them to become a bank"

Please provide link to said newspaper report on the intention to turn the village funds into a bank. Thank you

[siampolee]

Eric Loh post # 42

Sorry mine was taken out of a newspaper report. Yours was a personal opinion and a BS no doubt.

So in your eyes and personal opinion Mr Loh another persons personal opinion is B.S. yet a fourth estate opinion is beyond reproach?

You really should think before you post comments.

[Eric Loh]

Eric Loh post # 42

Sorry mine was taken out of a newspaper report. Yours was a personal opinion and a BS no doubt.

So in your eyes and personal opinion Mr Loh another persons personal opinion is B.S. yet a fourth estate opinion is beyond reproach?

You really should think before you post comments.

The BS reference was only my respond to a post directed at me containng the word 'BS". In no way I equate personal opinion as BS. If it sound that way, I apologize.

[Eric Loh]

Sorry mine was taken out of a newspaper report. Yours was a personal opinion and a BS no doubt.

"The reason for the additional funding is to enable the funds to expend the memberships and elevate them to become a bank"

Please provide link to said newspaper report on the intention to turn the village funds into a bank. Thank you

Actually came out in TVF in 2012.

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/593640-yingluck-marks-10-years-of-village-fund/

It is a community bank or a despository institution. Very much independent and for banks who have limited funds.

[Emptyset]

In theory they are probably good ideas. In practice they are steaming Thaksin sh#t piles that are used to steal state money. Reform them or scrap them.

Have you got any evidence that it's as bad as you say? The fund isn't perfect, but what is? Also as it's one of the things that made Thaksin so popular, scrapping it doesn't seem a particularly great idea if the junta wants to retain whatever measure of support it may have in rural areas.

[15Peter20]

If the army's embrace of Thaksinesque populist style policies is to continue, I see the Village Fund changing its name to the People's Happiness Fund and acquiring a new founder - Coupmaster P himself. Apart from that, I predict business as usual on this issue.

[Emptyset]

Don't know about the womans fund but if what has been reported is correct it would seem the village funds have been very effective as a tool in vote gathering.

The reported threat is said to have been that if the village vote goes against a particular party then the fund will be withheld from that village.

Or a rumor is spread that if an opposition party gets in they will scrap the village fund.

Either is a powerful incentive for village heads to ensure the collective village vote goes the correct way.

No need to waste money on vote buying.

"The reported threat" - has there ever been any evidence of this actually happening? Anyway, even if the ruour is used in the way you say, it's not clear that scrapping it would have the effect you want. After all, if they did scrap it (and what you say implies it's very popular or taking it away woudn't be an effective threat), then at a new election, that same party could simply win the votes of that village again by promising to bring it back, couldn't they?

[WhizBang]

if they continue these Path, than don't need pull up my wife ," german politicians should move in to clean up the mess"

Again. In plain english this time.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sorry mine was taken out of a newspaper report. Yours was a personal opinion and a BS no doubt.

"The reason for the additional funding is to enable the funds to expend the memberships and elevate them to become a bank"

Please provide link to said newspaper report on the intention to turn the village funds into a bank. Thank you src="http://2-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/www.thaivisa.com/static.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/wai.gif.pagespeed.ce.ptXUXgG4cA.gif" alt=wai.gif width=20 height=20>

Actually came out in TVF in 2012.


www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/593640-yingluck-marks-10-years-of-village-fund/

It is a community bank or a despository institution. Very much independent and for banks who have limited funds.

"It's a community bank.........."

Maybe true in some villages. But equal access?

Absolutely not true at all in many villages.

[15Peter20]

if they continue these Path, than don't need pull up my wife ," german politicians should move in to clean up the mess"

Again. In plain english this time.

He'd probably get banned if it was in plain English.

[gemini81]

There is no political agenda here or bias. The Thai army is "scrutinizing" these funds.

No there isn't. As for crooked politicians, they got kicked out for all their feudal nepotism, cronyism and swindling. Awesome, ain't it?! Please come visit Israel, the US and the Rothschilds and Rockefellers. Show 'em how it can be done Prayuth. The world is lacking in men who are leaders with courage. Its nice to see some things finally being done without fear of assassination by the Shinawatra cartel (which they have done on many occasions).

Edited June 12, 2014 by gemini81

[Fat Haggis]

But there's absolutely no nepotism or cronyism within the RTA Gemini?

[PhilipCook]

Property taxes for all landowners that cover roads, police and public education. Additional property tax for undeveloped land.

[Bakseeda]

The original intention of the Village Fund was to allow villagers to borrow small amounts of money (generally up to 10,000baht) to start a small local business such as selling food from a hand cart etc.

However village committees handed it oput to anyone without any checks, and whilst it has to be repaid after 1 year, it is immediately re-0applied for and is back in the hanmds of the villagers after a couple of weeks. Invariably they have to borrow the money to repay (at around 10% interest for the 2 weeks)

If the scheme is stopped (which in my opinion it should be as it serves no useful purpose), villagers will have a very hard time paying back what they owe.

Yes , I agree, but it will be much better to have to re-pay the village fund, than to repay the money-lenders... and what if the small business that the borrower started failed.? Is there some sort of Guarantee system built in.. But is what you are saying, people borrowed the funds for many reasons and not all borrowers tried to start-up a business.. In that case they deserve to be punished... for fraud... and the person at the village fund who signed off on this loan should also be punished.. for being an idiot..!

[bangrak]

The Woman Empowerment presence in our neck of the rice fields manifests as a somewhat rundown shack, untended yard,

tattered poster of Yingluck, and usually a couple ore more old geezers having a drink at the front. If there's any money involved, it's either not a whole lot or long gone before put to any decent use.

Ever seen pictures of a meeting of the top ladies running this other Shins' scam, and their names? As 'hi-so' as it can get... And IMO not being there for nothing... It made me think of my country where that organisation with a Swiss flag in reverse, with so many brave volunteers, is lead by a bunch of 'old elites' and 'hi-so's', becoming (not) 'low' wages, generating huge bills with 'expenses', getting free staff, limo's, drivers, free this and free that, and of course showing off as if they do it 'for the good cause'. Not stealing money, 'technically', no, just 'diverting' it from what the organisation was created for...

[djjamie]

That will be openly welcomed by the tax payer and I look forward to the Junta scraping the village fund after they analyze its spectacular failures. Next to the disastrous 30 baht health care scheme the village fund destroyed prosperity, crippled the poor in debt to loan sharks and made thaksin very rich off the back of the poor that he purported to help. In short, the village fund was a rushed program that was implemented to increase Thaksins wealth.

The fund was supposed to be used as a tool to reduce loan sharks. Nevertheless, instead of reducing them, it ended up exacerbating the effect. The need for borrowers to pay back their loans quickly (within a year) to the government after receiving loans from the fund caused borrowers to look to loan sharks for more loans to pay back previous loans. Although most households did pay back loans, they did so by borrowing from other sources. They even borrowed from the fund to pay back other debts by loan sharks which was not its intended purpose.

Household debt had gone up almost 100 percent from 2002 to 2004. It significantly increased from 68,405 Baht in 2000 (before TRT came to power) to 110,133 Baht in the first quarter of 2004.

Another problem was that the duration in which debtors had to pay back loans was too short (one year), and thus borrowers were unable to make use of loans. Especially in impoverished areas, people had limited loans of no more than 20,000 Baht.

Income inequality also got worse after the implementation of the program, due mainly to the manner in which the money was distributed: it was not sent directly to the poor. Around 90% of those receiving loans were categorized as non-poor and the poor had the lowest access to funding in all regions, except Bangkok. Among the poor, 6.53% of the extremely poor had access to the loans.

While the Village Fund program was able to increase household expenditures, households failed to utilize loans they received for investment purposes, which would have helped generate more jobs and incomes. Household expenditure increased from 189,258 Baht to 203,635 Baht or 7.6% increase compared to the period before the program began.

In addition, the program was designed without developing a plan on how the loans should be used by debtors, and as a result, most household expenditures were spent on non-consumption expenditure. The Chamber of Commerce’s findings showed that 40% of the fund was used to repay debt, 20% for luxuries, and 5% for productive investment. Clearly, the majority of people who took loans from the scheme did not use money to invest in their farms or businesses; instead they used loans to buy commodities that were beyond the means of decent subsistence, such as motorcycles, electronic devices, and cell phones. Thaksin being the sole distributor of mobile phones at the time essentially gave tax payers money to the poor who in turn gave it directly back to him!

Households were also not able to increase savings, despite the increase in their income. Savings stayed at the same level of 28.1% of overall expenditure,

Thus, it can be concluded that people did not utilize loans towards investment activities that could help them escape poverty. Which is the common theme in not only Thaksin populism, but populism worldwide. The schemes are supposed to look good, win votes, but keep them poor. If it didn't then the carrot in front of the donkey would disappear and people would vote freely based on strong political credentials, honesty, integrity and transparency. (Which unfortunately are all the things politicians lack!!)

But you get my point…..

[bangrak]

The Village Fund was continued and adopted by Ahbisit government. He see value in that fund too.

This is not 'crochet', this is pure 'lace', artwork! The way you succeed in bending and twisting, adapting, re-inventing, the reality of facts is really 'top'. I would applaud, when it would not be aimed at des-informing people. Are the Shins such great people in your opinion, or do you just do a, good, job for them? I wonder where you studied, you would have made a great penal attorney, why did you choose for this kind of 'things'?

[bangrak]

For those that say this was a vote buying scam, you are totaly wrong. The village funds were set up to give soft loans to the villagers to be able to buy fertilizers or seeds for crops etc, they paid a nominal interest rate and had to pay it back, or they could not get a loan in the future.

Come on, get real, you cannot really think what you write here, yes, it might have been what was said about it when the Shins created it, but the lies were quite transparent: why it was created, and how it was to be used, so, no propaganda, please!