Thailand still very low in English language skills

[PaullyW]

I have just finished teaching an intensive English conversation course to medical students.

It was a 14 day course with no tests whatsoever. Just pure conversation, fun and games.

The students wrote in their evaluations that "they learnt more in the last 14 days, without the pressure of grades, than in the whole semester.

What I mean to say is that the report is correct in many aspects. Thai students have this fear of getting low grades and this probably influences their confidence and learning abilities.

On a side note...They are all potential surgeons but I hope I never have to be operated on by one of them. Even though the course was fun and games the students cheated a lot by texting messages to each other. If they cheat in fun activities what do they do in their academic studies?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Unfortunately for the country rather than actual students the whole system is flawed from the outset.

Cheating isn't really seen as wrong. Remember the incident at Ramkamheng Uni with Mr. Ts son and the comments of the deputy head who said cheating was not a serious matter.

Students don't really have to fear failure as for many and varied reasons not many do unless an outcast and a real nonentity.

Students get passes and qualifications they didn't earn or don't deserve and the country gets landed with all these ' qualified ' people.

The deputy head of Ramkhamhaeng Uni. said cheating is not a serious matter and now it's OK for Thai students to cheat.

Bill Clinton said BJs weren't sex so now very many high school students in the US give oral sex thinking it is not 'real' sex.

It begins with the leadership.

Fairly silly analogy.

The point is not about the school administrator saying it. The point is that most Thais (old and young, educated and not) seem to agree with the idea.

How many Americans agreed with Bill Clinton's idiotic statement?

I shall await your answer.

[cloudhopper]

The key to learning a language is in actually using the language. Thais in general get very little exposure or chance to use the language.

Maybe so, but I have found most Thais are far less willing to make the effort to converse in a foreign language,when given the opportunity, than any other place I have lived.

[anon467367354]

it's just going to get worse. There will be fewer and fewer native speaking teachers to interact with the students.

It doesn't take a certified teacher or a degree to teach someone English, just look at how many bar girls speak

English better than many professors.

Screw the degrees and give those that want to teach an exam to see if they are proficient enough in the language to

teach it and provide a curriculum.

The more and more restrictions placed upon native speakers that won't be able to live here I think is definitely going

to have an impact.

There is a definite shortage of teachers where schools will and do hire people illegally, Those people won't be around

much longer and no one to replace them. Make is easier for people to work and let the schools decide who they want to

hire. The government obviously has not done a very good job at it so far.

[tonypace02]

I have just finished teaching an intensive English conversation course to medical students.

It was a 14 day course with no tests whatsoever. Just pure conversation, fun and games.

The students wrote in their evaluations that "they learnt more in the last 14 days, without the pressure of grades, than in the whole semester.

What I mean to say is that the report is correct in many aspects. Thai students have this fear of getting low grades and this probably influences their confidence and learning abilities.

On a side note...They are all potential surgeons but I hope I never have to be operated on by one of them. Even though the course was fun and games the students cheated a lot by texting messages to each other. If they cheat in fun activities what do they do in their academic studies?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have a degree in English Education from the USA. Having also taught in Thailand, I find that the greatest obstacles to successful education programs are the large class sizes and the ludicrous concept that education should be fun. The best education in Asia is found in Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore. In those countries, dedication and discipline rule in school not fun and games. And the notion that a language program will work in a class of 40 students spread out over 2 hours when a learning curve runs about 50 minutes is unrealistic.

[upena]

First, they have to learn Thai.

[spidermike007]

Apitha called on Thai students to urgently improve their English language skills.

He said the main reasons for the low score included the emphasis on translating English, students lacking clear objectives, a fixed teaching pattern and a fear of failure among students. As a result, he said the academy had introduced the "TOEFL X-CHANGE" tablet, which had eight language-learning applications to allow children to practice English anytime, anywhere.

​I did not see any mention of poor teacher training, or the lack of qualified foreign teachers, being paid a fair living wage. Only the promotion of a tablet. Oh boy. Here we go again. When will these guys learn, that english can only be learned through a creative, hands on approach, taught by qualified teachers, who are well paid?

[ronthai]

How about speaking understandable English when on the phone.

Many times the only clear part is the "Press 9 for English"

After that, no idea what language it is, but sure as hell is not English.

Edited June 13, 2014 by ronthai

[MMarlow]

Thais generally want to learn but many lack the motivation or time…MSG loaded food does not help also

What does a food flavour enhancer have to do with TOEFL scores? This should be good, wait for it.

[kingstonkid]

One of the negatives ,i suppose of never been colonized by Britain,

and they would have had an extensive and working rail system,also

maybe a better system of law.

regards Worgeordie

Yep Look how well British rule is doing in Pakistan, India, Myannmar and Bangladesh.

Wow you guys really got it right there. No stable government women raped at will, every area has it's own laws and the rail system there is to die on.

Give me a break.

also remember i am Canadian so I have the right.

Thailands biggest problem is the corruption. It is the fact that cheating is so well known that it is accepted. It is the fact that jobs are protected. That people for the longest time were only taught enough to be good farmers or soldiers.

English is important but as has been stated there needs to be more use of it.

I teach Pratom students privately and almost all my students come from a private school. The complaint from the parents is that they do not speak enough English in class. too much worry about books and assignments.

At the Toefl level it is completely different. What needs to be done is find out whee the kids with the high marks are studying and then find out how they are getting them. Copy that style and get rid of the mickey mouse companies that promise the world and deliver zip.

[freebyrd]

I would question these figures. I live nd worked for many years in Thailand and couldn't have done my job if I didn't speak Thai. Only a small number of staff spoke even basic English. I am the head of a small local company in Cambodia, 21 employees, only a few don't speak English. No need for me to learn Khmer.

Also, many Tuk Tuk drivers here can go beyond their Thai counterparts "Tuk Tuk, massage......<deleted> you!" approach and speak reasonable English for someone without much in the way of schooling. Actually, in my own experience, it's rare for a TT driver here to be rude at any time.

[MMarlow]

Students get passes and qualifications they didn't earn or don't deserve and the country gets landed with all these ' qualified ' people.

Don't suppose you have anything to back up this allegation and myth that you're promulgating.

[mrblue]

among the last three... but don't forget that in laos they can also speak french as a second language!

[umbanda]

In a country where a foreign need a "work permit" to teach for free in any place, and without interest from most people, even from university students, I cannot see how this problem will have a solution. The Chiang Rai Library offers FREE intensive Saturdays English teaching 9AM to 4PM with a good Thai teacher.....Only 8 students in the class, 4 women married with farang..plus 4 Thai adults. I am retired. I asked in immigration if I can teach for FREE in my temple to its monks. Answer. NO without work permit. Do not make sense. The temple cannot even give any "contract" to get it.

Giving tablets to the kids to take home it is a BIG mistake. Will be used to play games and look in free pornography.....even in the school... and for the time will last before getting broken. I tough for free in a Government village's school for 6 months, years ago very close to my home. I am a non native English speaker, but I was a lot better teacher than the Thai English teachers taking weekend classes to get the Teaching Master Degree. I got tired to complete and correct testings the teachers were doing at the university. I didn't want to do it, but also I didn't want to upset the school teachers recusing to help with that cheating, and get into trouble.

I just quited....and still missing "my" kids.

[MMarlow]

One of the negatives ,i suppose of never been colonized by Britain,

and they would have had an extensive and working rail system,also

maybe a better system of law.

regards Worgeordie

Thailand does have a very extensive rail network that works and a perfectly good legal system as has been shown since the military took over. It's the people that interfere with that system you should be having a go at.

Edited June 13, 2014 by MMarlow

[joshstiles]

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No, the primary reason for poor English skills is an aversion to anything foreign. There is a political and cultural fear that English language skills would wash away Thainess. When the government creates an atmosphere of English language immersion this will be eliminated. But, this is Thailand, and that will never happen.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

hmmm....interesting point of view.....a much nicer way of saying "they're all just plain ignorant"

...but of course you are right.....it will never happen

[joshstiles]

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I have just finished teaching an intensive English conversation course to medical students.

It was a 14 day course with no tests whatsoever. Just pure conversation, fun and games.

The students wrote in their evaluations that "they learnt more in the last 14 days, without the pressure of grades, than in the whole semester.

What I mean to say is that the report is correct in many aspects. Thai students have this fear of getting low grades and this probably influences their confidence and learning abilities.

On a side note...They are all potential surgeons but I hope I never have to be operated on by one of them. Even though the course was fun and games the students cheated a lot by texting messages to each other. If they cheat in fun activities what do they do in their academic studies?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

...aaaahhhh yes.....and now we see the bigger picture...

" the students cheated a lot by texting messages to each other. If they cheat in fun activities what do they do in their academic studies?"

and this is what is reflected in any test scores you see post anywhere...in the schools, in the media, etc.

So the 'dumbification' of Thailand is much worse than we know.

[laurentbkk]

is it because of the Thais themselves ? or because of the teachers ...

[AsiaCheese]

Its a shame that this is the case with Thailand, the English Language has been an International Language for a very long time.

And to see that the Neighbouring countries like Malaysia, Myanmar and Vietnam have very high scores, would indicate that the problem lies in the

Thai culture and the Thai education system in general.

Yes and no... The way I see it, it's the language structure that screws things up. While it's quite easy to translate Western languages more or less word by word, with results usually/often making sense (see: Google Translate), there are so many different meanings to one Thai word in different contexts. Translating between Thai and a Western language is something like a 2-step process: first turning the Thai meaning from a "picture" or "feeling" into a coherent word stream, second translate that... It can't be very easy for Thai people to take those mental curves - and it's not very easy for farangs to do the same, the other way around - when did you last hear a farang speak "good Thai"?

[MMarlow]

I dread to think whats happening in their Air Traffic Control towers then.

Why?

[Seastallion]

No, the primary reason for poor English skills is an aversion to anything foreign. There is a political and cultural fear that English language skills would wash away Thainess. When the government creates an atmosphere of English language immersion this will be eliminated. But, this is Thailand, and that will never happen.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Poppycock!

My wife is Thai and an English teacher at a private college. She has been teaching English for years at various schools. The students are eager, the parents are keen, but the system is arse-about-face. The private schools treat the students as customers and thus insist that "the customer is always right" and "the customer must be kept happy" This results in no discipline and too many fun activities, with very little emphasis on the students learning.

Also, because the students are "customers", they are "passed" when they have learnt little or nothing.

Another reason I think your view is wrong is my own observation. All the kids in my soi have asked me to teach them English, and come to my house every Sunday for informal free lessons, and some of the adults try to engage me in conversation too, to practice or improve their English.

[kamahele]

Being married to a Thai teacher I hear about this non stop. The problem starts with the government / education department and their policies and instructional material. Then there are so many teachers in Thailand who do not know anything about the subject they are teaching. So English teachers can't speak English, math teachers can't perform multiplication etc. and they aren't fired. Parents who don't give a crap about whether their kids learn or not and offer no assistance to their children. He was lucky. While born to parents who only had a fourth grade education themselves, they had a mother who worked with them on their studies and all three kids went to University and two of them earned graduate degrees in the US. Oh, and of course there is the corruption even in the educational system......

[MMarlow]

It's not the students' fault, Apitha, it's the system's fault, and the culture's fault. Fix those - ha! - and the students will learn. So forget about it. Thais will always be hopeless at English. Always. Forever.

"Fix those - ha! - and the students will learn"

"Thais will always be hopeless at English. Always. Forever."

Bit of self-contradiction there, Einstein.

[MMarlow]

How about speaking understandable English when on the phone.

Many times the only clear part is the "Press 9 for English"

After that, no idea what language it is, but sure as hell is not English.

The answer would be for you to enrol on an English language course.

[Gillyflower]

Some years back, the son of friends of mine was given the choice of a 4/5 year 'scholarship' to study I forget what, in either Germany or Turkey. They chose the latter (???). He was a pupil at the Turkish school in CM. The next year I asked how his course was going. He hadn't even started. In Turkey they had assumed that he spoke English, at least High School leaving level. but as he didn't have one word, he couldn't go to the university. They sent him to learn English full time for 1 year or until he was capable of doing further studies.

A few years ago, on a Rome/Bkok flight, I was sitting next to a young Thai going home for holidays. He was also on one of theseinternational education schemes. He was doing engineering. He told me his Italian was good and his English certainly was. He couldn't speak either language before going to Italy.

[nottocus]

Why don't they increase the money and hire some real, properly trained teachers (Westerners) instead.

Too much &lt;deleted&gt; out there.

[Seastallion]

Ignoring the standards of my posts here, which are generally off-the-cuff, I professionally proofread/edit Master's and PhDs for various universities, including Chula and Mahidol, etc. You wouldn't believe the amount of copying from each other, and plagiarism which occurs at even PhD level... and yes, I'm deadly serious.

Only last week, I received a PhD paper from Assumption and I ran a turnit-in scan. It came back with 38% copied and plagiarised from the Internet !!!

That's the level we are looking at with regards to cheating. Yet, and despite that, all students PASS, with a little backhander to their advisors......

Edit: And let's not forget, the majority of the PhD grads become the next advisors, faculty lecturers and Dept. Heads, etc. and so it goes on!

My wife has her masters from PSU, an internationally accredited Uni. Her degree was well-earned, however before she met me and "saw the light" she used to right theses for students for a fee.

After we got together and she told me what she does, I told her my view on the matter. We only had a brief discussion on the long-term disadvantages for Thailand before she very quickly and genuinely changed her view too and now does not condone any cheating. She turns down the envelopes from her student's parents and is saddened for the country at how rife the corruption and cheating is.

BTW, what do you do with plagiarised papers?

[GBK]

I dread to think whats happening in their Air Traffic Control towers then.

Why?

ATC comms are conducted in English...

[tim armstrong]

Ramit.

So very well said. I would only add a comment about Thai world awareness. I once taught a large group of final year university teaching students - who were going out to be English teachers in our province. Most of them had been learning English for about 15 years. Out of 35 I could only have a reasonable conversation with 3. Many of TV previous comments are true. Example: "I want you to tell me if you don't understand' response -"We can't do that - you're the teacher".

I enjoyed teaching them, but struggled with the critical thinking part, and was shocked by their lack of world awareness. ...and they were the best students in the Uni. Predictably the ones who came from better educated families, and who had travelled themselves, were more confident, would ask questions and produced better results. Unfortunately most had absolutey no idea about concepts of learning. Regurgitating a written curriculum was going to be their job. Sad to say but Thailand still has a long way to go in education.

[Chao Lao Beach]

I don't think Thais really consider English an important language in the big picture. The Thai Consulate General in Sydney says Thais in Australia should be learning Thai in Aussie schools.

Yeah, i read that as well, that is a totally W..T...F... attitude isn't.

[inutil]

I have just finished teaching an intensive English conversation course to medical students.

It was a 14 day course with no tests whatsoever. Just pure conversation, fun and games.

The students wrote in their evaluations that "they learnt more in the last 14 days, without the pressure of grades, than in the whole semester.

What I mean to say is that the report is correct in many aspects. Thai students have this fear of getting low grades and this probably influences their confidence and learning abilities.

On a side note...They are all potential surgeons but I hope I never have to be operated on by one of them. Even though the course was fun and games the students cheated a lot by texting messages to each other. If they cheat in fun activities what do they do in their academic studies?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have a degree in English Education from the USA. Having also taught in Thailand, I find that the greatest obstacles to successful education programs are the large class sizes and the ludicrous concept that education should be fun. The best education in Asia is found in Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore. In those countries, dedication and discipline rule in school not fun and games. And the notion that a language program will work in a class of 40 students spread out over 2 hours when a learning curve runs about 50 minutes is unrealistic.

Swings and roundabouts...

Functional English in two of those countries (Korea and Japan) barely exists. It's almost exclusively viewed as an abstract academic subject (like how many of us might view maths). The sole purpose of studying English is to pass tests. These tests have no applied component (spoken and functional English). They teach grammar rules. Students memorise the rules and then apply them to the question. Thus, should you speak to an educated Japanese adult (having gone through no less than 8 years of English education (2 at elementary, 3 at middle school and 3 at high school)), you'll find they struggle to apply this knowledge in a real life situation. On top of this, the focus on testing and accuracy results an a second unintended consequence: if they dont know the answer, they wont try to apply the language or look for alternative strategies to be understood. There is a terrible fear when facing a foreigner of looking foolish. And this doesnt just apply to muddling up grammar. This applies to something as simple as pronunciation and intonation being 'off'. It creates a paralysis in applying English anywhere outside of the safe, comfortable, ordered and rule driven environment of the classroom.

Nothing is more mind boggling being an English teacher in Japan than the moment you are in the corridors in a break between lesson and you ask a student "how are you?" only to see them immediately ask their friends 'what's he saying?

To put this into context... at the start of EVERY SINGLE ENGLISH CLASS THEY HAVE HAD for however many years, the students stand up, greet the teacher and the teacher will run through the basics like the date, the weather, and maybe a quick question on last weeks grammar point). Almost the first question out of the teacher's lips will be "how are you?" and every student will automatically drone "im fine thank you, and you?" (with always a slightly exaggerated lift on 'and YOU?') Ask them this same question in the halls and they blank. It might seem a curious thing. But its really not. It's simply tied into the way students relate to their English class: a class built around a textbook that is entirely built around the next key stage exams which are in turn entirely built around grammatical rules and translation. Its not in any way shape or form built around communication.

So what you end up with is an 18 year old student sitting university entrance exams (that will have most native speakers scratching their heads and thinking "but... both of these are fine!?!?"). And they will murder that test! But they can't use this information in the outside world. Its just a textbook and a bunch of rules. Its suited to its task. But its task is English as an abstract, academic rule governed activity with no practical application to the outside world. It might as well be Latin.

Which isnt exactly wide of the mark as a comparison, since youre really dealing with grammar translation at the end of the day.

Gaijin Da!

It is changing a little. But its been 'changing' since i started teaching there in 2005. There were always rumors that the university entrance exams would finally add in a spoken English component. But outside medicine courses, its still not to be. Your English score (as one the CORE subjects of both middle and high school) is an important part of your application but its all still very much based on the translation and understanding of grammar rules. Now i know plenty of the older cats on here who grew up with exactly this method (and hated it at the time but suddenly find it wonderful for all the learning it instilled in them), will be cheering at the sidelines. But the facts speak for themselves. Go to Japan. Pick anyone between the age of 16 and 30. Try speaking to them in simple English, and see how far you get before "eigo. muri!" (and the shame and embarrassment starts creeping into their face). They will ALL have had between 5 years and 8 years of English education. Id even argue that theyll have completely forgotten what they learned by the time theyre in their 20s if they aren't still studying English because it's simply too abstract and won't have that emotional resonance and success in real life situations that would have helped to keep it fresh.

So what you're really left with is a colossal waste of time and effort for all concerned im afraid. You have millions of Japanese people with very little functional English, and no real interest to use it anyway, because that wasn't the objective. This is probably the objective to be honest.

Swings and roundabouts