NCPO's economic board approves 3 trillion baht infrastructure projects

[HUAHIN62]

Yingluck administration using 2 trillion and putting country in debt for next 50 years = BAD.

NCPO approving 3 trillion = Good.

I'm confused.

The country does need the infrastructure but not the hi-speed train at this point. All the B2.2trn projects apart from the hi-speed train and the double track were in the ministries' long-term plans already. The NCPO has obviously taken what was there already and put it forward minus the hi-speed but plus some other long-term projects. The difference will be that all the projects will be approved over time and in phases in the annual budget acts. That means the number is not set in concrete and future governments can amend or cancel plans for projects that are not ready to start now. I would guess that what will get firm approval from the NCPO for disbursal in 2014-15 will actually be first phases of a small number of projects amounting to no more than B300 billion.

The hi-speed train was B700 bn of the B2.2 trn and was a grand scheme of Thaksin's to please the Chinese and make a huge amount of money from a project that would not generate sufficient economic benefit compared to its cost and would be hugely loss making to the already bankrupt SRT. The Thai Chamber of Commerce says that an average of 30% of all development projects disappears in corruption. Let me think. that would have been a cool US$6 billion for Thaksin & Co. He must spend every waking hour worrying about where his next billion (USD) is going to come from. I hope he can fit it all in his coffin when he goes.

Now its going to be a cool $ 9bn for whom ? Yes we need the infrastructure, but follow the correct procedures, do cost-benefit analyses to determine which projects will be the greatest benefit to the country, then do enviromental impact studies, then consult with the communities that will be effected, then put the checks and balances inplace to make certain the spending will be transparent, then find the funds and then implement the projects on time and with strict quality control. The problem I have is that we have jumped some of the most important steps and are now 6 montha away from spending.

[ginjag]

Maybe it's a good job we have people like you posting, it's kept us on our feet over the 3 years of PTP, happy for you now to support a non functioning regime.

It was the PTP that was devoid of brain cells or we would not be in this predicament. BUT your thinking this way is Habit rather than normal function.

Hypocrisy have always been a problem with some colour orientated people. My point was that the same projects, funded the same way with the same lack of transparency that was shotdown by many of the yellow tinted poster on TV are now seen as the best thing since the light bulb. By the way if you look at my posts over the years you will notice that I atleast tried to be balanced in my views.

Hey, not very balanced if anyone that criticized PTP in your view had to be "Yellow"

When we see the whole package and where the money comes from and accounts to be kept, it will be totally different than PTP JUST borrow attitude.

Even the Dems said do not just borrow get finance from other means. But no they wanted Thailand to be plagued for 50 years of financial problems.

I was never colour orientated, only a critic of the Shin regime. Who said this would have lack of transparency--

Didn't it register to you that this was a project for PTP and the trough ???

Did you have trust in the borrowing ???

To me this is infrastructure that is needed and has been on the cards well before PTP came about.

If you dont have the money, how do you not borrow? Surely even issuing Govt bonds is borrowing as it has to be paid back with interest.

Please tell us how they will get the money? Perhaps they will cut their own budget to help fund it?

You seem to know it will all be done properly, so why dont you enlighten the readership how you know so? After all the military has a fantastic track record of fiscal transparency and prudence.

Private money--same as Thai Airways should be privatized.

I do not know it will be done properly, but it has to be better than the PTP fashion.

Your words like "please enlighten the readership is sick---do you mean you want to know more ??? I couldn't tell you. I only know that the money that PTP wanted I did not trust it to be all used for it's said plan. Going on their past 3 years NO way.

I am not looking for negative governing or I would be crying out for Shins style.

You tell me then Where you would get the money from ??? PTP was going to get it .

[ginjag]

Maybe it's a good job we have people like you posting, it's kept us on our feet over the 3 years of PTP, happy for you now to support a non functioning regime.

It was the PTP that was devoid of brain cells or we would not be in this predicament. BUT your thinking this way is Habit rather than normal function.

Hypocrisy have always been a problem with some colour orientated people. My point was that the same projects, funded the same way with the same lack of transparency that was shotdown by many of the yellow tinted poster on TV are now seen as the best thing since the light bulb. By the way if you look at my posts over the years you will notice that I atleast tried to be balanced in my views.

Hey, not very balanced if anyone that criticized PTP in your view had to be "Yellow"

When we see the whole package and where the money comes from and accounts to be kept, it will be totally different than PTP JUST borrow attitude.

Even the Dems said do not just borrow get finance from other means. But no they wanted Thailand to be plagued for 50 years of financial problems.

I was never colour orientated, only a critic of the Shin regime. Who said this would have lack of transparency--

Didn't it register to you that this was a project for PTP and the trough ???

Did you have trust in the borrowing ???

To me this is infrastructure that is needed and has been on the cards well before PTP came about.

"50 years of financial problems" lol... there you go again. Even if they could get private finance for some of it, the state will still have to pay most. And if we're still talking about the high speed train, it's unlikely private financiers would want to be involved. They wouldn't get involved in the UK for a project they need would cost more than it was supposed to and be subject to constant delays and revisions, so presumably they're even less likely to want to be involved in the Thai HST (although I guess there might be other benefits to being involved in the Thai project).

The private sector doesn't do things out of the goodness of their heart. They want to make profits. All sorts of problems with PFI schemes in the UK. Private contractors pulling out all the time or going bust, state having to pick up the bill. Constant corner cutting. I think governments like PFI because it's actually a good way to finance things "off budget", keeping the costs off the balance sheet, initially at least. Which is exactly what PT were going to do. But in the UK, many of the projects which were supposed to save money by using private finance actually ended up costly the state more (sometimes double) what they would have cost if they were entirely public financed. Personally I think major infrastracture priojects should stay in state hands and that's that, then you know exactly who to hold accountable.

So where are PTP accounts for what they spent, still looking for the rice books.---so much for Thai state run things from previous governments.

The money that would have funded them went into the bottomless pit (corruption)

[Morch]

You anti everything clowns still haven't got it have you.

This is an approval "IN PRINCIPAL"

Now all the relevant agencies must go back and work on then present the detailed plans and budgets.

Plans which the transport ministry have no doubt been working on for quite some time.

The railways certainly have as it was reported that the environmental and health surveys have already been completed for one part of the double tracking and they have only been waiting for the finance to start work.

If this is an approval "in principal", then wouldn't it be prudent to wait for details to come out before pronouncing it a great

deed?

Saying the transport ministry been on it for quite some time is ok - but until very recently, said ministry was under the PTP

control. Somehow was under the impression PTP related plans are not to be trusted, and that the same goes for health and

environmental surveys. Wouldn't know if the ministry had PTP plans/surveys and secret parallel "professional" plans/surveys

made, but the short time since the coup does seem somewhat too short to either formulated new plans or even review the

alternatives.

[MILT]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

What?

[Hawk]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

What?

That's right!

[ginjag]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

What?

That's right!

Keep saying it you will believe it.

[Emptyset]

"50 years of financial problems" lol... there you go again. Even if they could get private finance for some of it, the state will still have to pay most. And if we're still talking about the high speed train, it's unlikely private financiers would want to be involved. They wouldn't get involved in the UK for a project they need would cost more than it was supposed to and be subject to constant delays and revisions, so presumably they're even less likely to want to be involved in the Thai HST (although I guess there might be other benefits to being involved in the Thai project).

The private sector doesn't do things out of the goodness of their heart. They want to make profits. All sorts of problems with PFI schemes in the UK. Private contractors pulling out all the time or going bust, state having to pick up the bill. Constant corner cutting. I think governments like PFI because it's actually a good way to finance things "off budget", keeping the costs off the balance sheet, initially at least. Which is exactly what PT were going to do. But in the UK, many of the projects which were supposed to save money by using private finance actually ended up costly the state more (sometimes double) what they would have cost if they were entirely public financed. Personally I think major infrastracture priojects should stay in state hands and that's that, then you know exactly who to hold accountable.

So where are PTP accounts for what they spent, still looking for the rice books.---so much for Thai state run things from previous governments.

The money that would have funded them went into the bottomless pit (corruption)

Right... I didn't say that PT were transparent, I'd just be very surprised if things improved on that score. Or actually I wasn't even talking about that before. I was saying that to me it makes more sense to borrow 2 trillion over 50 years rather than borrowing it in a shorter time period and getting all sorts of private companies involved. More cooks involved, the less able you are to know which is responsible for ruining your soup. This ACM who's behind this budget btw, obviously can't go into detail here about his history, but the fact that Yingluck thought he could turn THAI around... well you'd think that would count as an anti-recommendation for you. lol.

I note some aviation projects have been added to the three trillion. And they've apparently come up with these in a week... ?

[Hawk]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

What?

That's right!

Keep saying it you will believe it.

I believed it even before I said!

[fab4]

Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open. All in the interests of being able to act quickly (and unaccountably) you understand.

That's one reason why no one trusts them - money vanishes at they won't reveal any details.

So no a government that behaves like that - with some unusual increases in wealth for some of its members is not better at spending money, however they came to power.

"Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open"

Well not quite......................

Transparency and Traceabiliity of the Infrastructure Project

In answering the many concerns that have been raised about transparency and traceability of the finances of the infrastructure projects, the 2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill

includes measures to ensure the examination of projects i.e. approval by the Cabinet must be received at different stages of the projects. Additionally, the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB), the Budget Bureau, and the Finance Ministry will examine the appropriateness of the projects, and will upload the standard reference prices for public viewing on the website www.gprocurement.so.th.

Furthermore, the obligations per the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 will also be enforced to ensure financial discipline, as follows:

1. Prior to taking out loans: issuing debt instruments must be accompanied by announcement of prices, maturity periods, and how the instruments are issued;

2. After taking out loans: public announcement of the source, terms and conditions, currency, amount, exchange rate used to convert the currency to Thai baht, interest rates, commission rates, costs, period, paying back the principal, the purpose for which the loans were taken, the conditions and requirements, including other any other information deemed necessary to be disclosed. Public announcement of this information will be published in the Royal Gazette for the public within 60 days after the loan was made;

3. Within 120 days: the government must report the progress and the results by 120 days after the end of the fiscal year. The evaluation that shows how the project is consistent with the infrastructure project plan and must also be presented to the Parliament and the Senate, as well as allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area (2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill draft, Article 19).

http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf

Your absolutely right there, my dear fabs. Especially the "allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area" was inspiring and confidence building.

Unfortunately the handling of the Blanket Amnesty Bill doesn't really inspire to have much faith in how the Yingluck Administration would 'implement' such article.

The amnesty Bill was not governed by the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 so can hardly be used as a yardstick to compare how The PTP would act with respect to public scrutiny of the Infrastructure Project loan.

I don't see what your opinion of the "handling" of amnesty bill has to do with the loan either.

[ginjag]

That's right!

Keep saying it you will believe it.

I believed it even before I said!

Habit. looking at what you say in your posts

[Hawk]

That's right!

Keep saying it you will believe it.

I believed it even before I said!

Habit. looking at what you say in your posts

If you don't like what I have to say then refrain from reading my uneducated statements in future. Hobbit!

[ginjag]

Keep saying it you will believe it.

I believed it even before I said!

Habit. looking at what you say in your posts

If you don't like what I have to say then refrain from reading my uneducated statements in future. Hobbit!

I would not say uneducated I would say Biased ---name calling me for what ??? did I rattle your cage ?? hit a nerve ??

cool it and why not try to be positive about the happenings.

[Boxclever]

My God, this Junta must be raking it in at the moment!

[khunken]

"Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open"

Well not quite......................

Transparency and Traceabiliity of the Infrastructure Project

In answering the many concerns that have been raised about transparency and traceability of the finances of the infrastructure projects, the 2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill

includes measures to ensure the examination of projects i.e. approval by the Cabinet must be received at different stages of the projects. Additionally, the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB), the Budget Bureau, and the Finance Ministry will examine the appropriateness of the projects, and will upload the standard reference prices for public viewing on the website www.gprocurement.so.th.

Furthermore, the obligations per the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 will also be enforced to ensure financial discipline, as follows:

1. Prior to taking out loans: issuing debt instruments must be accompanied by announcement of prices, maturity periods, and how the instruments are issued;

2. After taking out loans: public announcement of the source, terms and conditions, currency, amount, exchange rate used to convert the currency to Thai baht, interest rates, commission rates, costs, period, paying back the principal, the purpose for which the loans were taken, the conditions and requirements, including other any other information deemed necessary to be disclosed. Public announcement of this information will be published in the Royal Gazette for the public within 60 days after the loan was made;

3. Within 120 days: the government must report the progress and the results by 120 days after the end of the fiscal year. The evaluation that shows how the project is consistent with the infrastructure project plan and must also be presented to the Parliament and the Senate, as well as allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area (2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill draft, Article 19).

http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf

Your absolutely right there, my dear fabs. Especially the "allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area" was inspiring and confidence building.

Unfortunately the handling of the Blanket Amnesty Bill doesn't really inspire to have much faith in how the Yingluck Administration would 'implement' such article.

The amnesty Bill was not governed by the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 so can hardly be used as a yardstick to compare how The PTP would act with respect to public scrutiny of the Infrastructure Project loan.

I don't see what your opinion of the "handling" of amnesty bill has to do with the loan either.

You're right about the amnesty bill - street protests became the scrutiny that was missing.

The Yardstick could be either the Water Management bill or the rice subsidy bill - both ending up in a complete mess. Yingluck was always good at saying what should be done and then doing the complete opposite.

There were a number of high-minded speeches about corruption with absolutely no effort to implement them. Same with 'reconciliation'.

There is absolutely no evidence that PTP would ever comply with the Transparency & Traceability of the infrastructure project. It was always 'gimmie the money first & then we'll look at how to (mis) use it'.

The Op is purely about an initial approval of the infrastructure projects that the country needs minus the HSR which is not a current need but maybe a future one. How will it be implemented? We don't know yet despite all the crystal ball gazing about it in this thread.

It's quite likely that future governments will play a large part in implementing the projects. For now, it's wait and see, but I strongly suspect that the army will endeavour to build far more transparency into the projects than PTP ever did given their anti-corruption drive which has been badly needed.

[khunken]

My God, this Junta must be raking it in at the moment!

Yes they've been raking in truck loads of weapons which militias have been building up for the kill. They've also raked in quite a few alleged killers of protestors & civilians (including children) that the police had 'difficulty' in finding before the coup.

May they continue their raking of deadly weeds.

[moe666]

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

It is called right place at the right time, Thailand was coming out of the International Monetary fiasco which caused the collapse of a few countries economies including Thailand. There was only one way to go and that was up. It is very doubtful Big T came up with any economic policy or program that helped Thailand recover, he did have a few that increased his personal wealth.

[Bpuumike]

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

The army are doing fine and unlike the Shin government they plan to spend the money wisely and for the benefit of Thailand.

And most countries did well economically during the boom years of the first half of the 2000's. It was after the 2007 crisis when Thailand surprisingly outperformed it's rivals but that was under the Democrats.

Soon there well be huge new orders for tanks, blimps and other such rubbish. How will that benefit the nation?

I have read some crap posts but this one beats most.

[Baerboxer]

Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open. All in the interests of being able to act quickly (and unaccountably) you understand.

That's one reason why no one trusts them - money vanishes at they won't reveal any details.

So no a government that behaves like that - with some unusual increases in wealth for some of its members is not better at spending money, however they came to power.

"Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open"

Well not quite......................

Transparency and Traceabiliity of the Infrastructure Project

In answering the many concerns that have been raised about transparency and traceability of the finances of the infrastructure projects, the 2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill

includes measures to ensure the examination of projects i.e. approval by the Cabinet must be received at different stages of the projects. Additionally, the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB), the Budget Bureau, and the Finance Ministry will examine the appropriateness of the projects, and will upload the standard reference prices for public viewing on the website www.gprocurement.so.th.

Furthermore, the obligations per the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 will also be enforced to ensure financial discipline, as follows:

1. Prior to taking out loans: issuing debt instruments must be accompanied by announcement of prices, maturity periods, and how the instruments are issued;

2. After taking out loans: public announcement of the source, terms and conditions, currency, amount, exchange rate used to convert the currency to Thai baht, interest rates, commission rates, costs, period, paying back the principal, the purpose for which the loans were taken, the conditions and requirements, including other any other information deemed necessary to be disclosed. Public annoucement of this information will be published in the Royal Gazette for the public within 60 days after the loan was made;

3. Within 120 days: the government must report the progress and the results by 120 days after the end of the fiscal year. The evaluation that shows how the project is consistent with the infrastructure project plan and must also be presented to the Parliament and the Senate, as well as allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area (2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill draft, Article 19).

http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf

No corruption in the PTP administration - Yingluck said so. Why she was even photographed with her corruption busting poster and team.

No lies in the finance ministry - well, only little white lies that the minister said was o k so long as it made people happy. How thought full.

No figures released or apparently kept that would meet even the most basic accounting requirements on the rice scheme.

Billions unaccounted for, overspend probes like on the infamous clocks, cock ups like the tablets for schools fiasco.

Yes sir, you could surely trust PTP, the party controlled by a convicted fraudster to play by the rules, check everything themselves and then get their relations, friends and those they appointed to do a re-check. Of course, we'd have to take their word for it as some of their "partner" organizations might insist on total secrecy, like the G2G fictitious rice deals now being probed.

The party that said lying was ethical. Trust them - no worries.

[Baerboxer]

Your absolutely right there, my dear fabs. Especially the "allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area" was inspiring and confidence building.

Unfortunately the handling of the Blanket Amnesty Bill doesn't really inspire to have much faith in how the Yingluck Administration would 'implement' such article.

The amnesty Bill was not governed by the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 so can hardly be used as a yardstick to compare how The PTP would act with respect to public scrutiny of the Infrastructure Project loan.

I don't see what your opinion of the "handling" of amnesty bill has to do with the loan either.

Didn't PTP have a history of not following a myriad of laws, rules and procedures? And a track record of doing different to what they said, promised and vowed?

Would that make you think they would honor anything?

[rubl]

I agree the only concern is that the budget deficit is increasing with +- 2% (2013/14 to 2014/15). If they finance it off budget over 20 years the interest payments at 3% would be B 90 bn per annum and for each 1% increase in the interest rate the payment will jump with B 30 bn per annum.

A starting point for savings could be to decrease the number of Generals to be inline with modern armies (Thailand 1400 + and US +-140). They could fire/early retire all the officials in inactive posts. They could sell their share in companies like PTT, with this move they could pay for most of the infrastructure projects cash. They could stop the energy related subsidies and save +- B 200 bn per year and stop the rice scheme and save +- B 170 bn per year. They could sell Thai railways and lease the infrastructure to a private entity at the same amount the repayments are for the railway upgrades.

Brave leaders become heroes and weak ones foot notes in history books, its all about choices in the end.

A lot of assumptions based on ???

Let's wait till we get more info, shall we? I mean even Ms. Yingluck asked for six months to show something or another.

[fab4]

Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open. All in the interests of being able to act quickly (and unaccountably) you understand.

That's one reason why no one trusts them - money vanishes at they won't reveal any details.

So no a government that behaves like that - with some unusual increases in wealth for some of its members is not better at spending money, however they came to power.

"Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open"

Well not quite......................

Transparency and Traceabiliity of the Infrastructure Project

In answering the many concerns that have been raised about transparency and traceability of the finances of the infrastructure projects, the 2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill

includes measures to ensure the examination of projects i.e. approval by the Cabinet must be received at different stages of the projects. Additionally, the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB), the Budget Bureau, and the Finance Ministry will examine the appropriateness of the projects, and will upload the standard reference prices for public viewing on the website www.gprocurement.so.th.

Furthermore, the obligations per the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 will also be enforced to ensure financial discipline, as follows:

1. Prior to taking out loans: issuing debt instruments must be accompanied by announcement of prices, maturity periods, and how the instruments are issued;

2. After taking out loans: public announcement of the source, terms and conditions, currency, amount, exchange rate used to convert the currency to Thai baht, interest rates, commission rates, costs, period, paying back the principal, the purpose for which the loans were taken, the conditions and requirements, including other any other information deemed necessary to be disclosed. Public annoucement of this information will be published in the Royal Gazette for the public within 60 days after the loan was made;

3. Within 120 days: the government must report the progress and the results by 120 days after the end of the fiscal year. The evaluation that shows how the project is consistent with the infrastructure project plan and must also be presented to the Parliament and the Senate, as well as allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area (2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill draft, Article 19).

http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf

No corruption in the PTP administration - Yingluck said so. Why she was even photographed with her corruption busting poster and team.

No lies in the finance ministry - well, only little white lies that the minister said was o k so long as it made people happy. How thought full.

No figures released or apparently kept that would meet even the most basic accounting requirements on the rice scheme.

Billions unaccounted for, overspend probes like on the infamous clocks, cock ups like the tablets for schools fiasco.

Yes sir, you could surely trust PTP, the party controlled by a convicted fraudster to play by the rules, check everything themselves and then get their relations, friends and those they appointed to do a re-check. Of course, we'd have to take their word for it as some of their "partner" organizations might insist on total secrecy, like the G2G fictitious rice deals now being probed.

The party that said lying was ethical. Trust them - no worries.

I was talking about the 2.2 trillion baht loan - if you don't want to believe they would have followed the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548, well, that's up to you. I really am not interested in the rest of your post so let's leave it at that. I shall look forward to the transparent way the junta infrastructure projects are carried out by the unelected, appointed by ? interim government.

Edited June 14, 2014 by fab4

[fab4]

Didn't PTP have a history of not following a myriad of laws, rules and procedures? And a track record of doing different to what they said, promised and vowed?

Would that make you think they would honor anything?

Whereas you're quite happy to put your faith in a near 3 Trillion baht Infrastructure project undertaken by an unelected appointed interim government overseen by an army whose track record of financial acumen in the past has not exactly been stellar. OK.......................

Edited June 14, 2014 by fab4

[rajyindee]

My God, this Junta must be raking it in at the moment!

Yes they've been raking in truck loads of weapons which militias have been building up for the kill.

That'll be down to the excellent performance of the GT200.

[ginjag]

No corruption in the PTP administration - Yingluck said so. Why she was even photographed with her corruption busting poster and team.

No lies in the finance ministry - well, only little white lies that the minister said was o k so long as it made people happy. How thought full.

No figures released or apparently kept that would meet even the most basic accounting requirements on the rice scheme.

Billions unaccounted for, overspend probes like on the infamous clocks, cock ups like the tablets for schools fiasco.

Yes sir, you could surely trust PTP, the party controlled by a convicted fraudster to play by the rules, check everything themselves and then get their relations, friends and those they appointed to do a re-check. Of course, we'd have to take their word for it as some of their "partner" organizations might insist on total secrecy, like the G2G fictitious rice deals now being probed.

The party that said lying was ethical. Trust them - no worries.

I was talking about the 2.2 trillion baht loan - if you don't want to believe they would have followed the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548, well, that's up to you. I really am not interested in the rest of your post so let's leave it at that. I shall look forward to the transparent way the junta infrastructure projects are carried out by the unelected, appointed by ? interim government.

Yes I did take interested in the post, to sum up you do not want to know the truth, you close your eyes to the things that visually stand out (Baerboxers points) and valid.

If you believe accounts and transparency existed within the PTP you must have a medic problem.

Your come back to truth is. junta remarks-unelected-appointed by who-interim government. Just sour grapes. shame. you are not worth getting involved with.

The reason being --we are all trying to get on with the future not Thaksins past and PTP mega mistakes. this is how you survive crawling between posters and countering their encouragement of the temporary cleaner.

[ginjag]

Didn't PTP have a history of not following a myriad of laws, rules and procedures? And a track record of doing different to what they said, promised and vowed?

Would that make you think they would honor anything?

Whereas you're quite happy to put your faith in a near 3 Trillion baht Infrastructure project undertaken by an unelected appointed interim government overseen by an army whose track record of financial acumen in the past has not exactly been stellar. OK.......................

Just to confirm . my post previous sums your track record. Now knocking at everything you can think of. Ha ha again unelected,interim government.

As though PTP were gods gift. denial denial denial.

We have proposals made, nothing finalized properly but moving on nicely thanks.

[Prbkk]

So all the TVF usual suspects screaming and shrieking about unsustainable infrastructure projects are now joining in the conga line in support. Amazing.

[Lakegeneve]

Yingluck administration using 2 trillion and putting country in debt for next 50 years = BAD.

NCPO approving 3 trillion = Good.

I'm confused.

The country does need the infrastructure but not the hi-speed train at this point. All the B2.2trn projects apart from the hi-speed train and the double track were in the ministries' long-term plans already. The NCPO has obviously taken what was there already and put it forward minus the hi-speed but plus some other long-term projects. The difference will be that all the projects will be approved over time and in phases in the annual budget acts. That means the number is not set in concrete and future governments can amend or cancel plans for projects that are not ready to start now. I would guess that what will get firm approval from the NCPO for disbursal in 2014-15 will actually be first phases of a small number of projects amounting to no more than B300 billion.

The hi-speed train was B700 bn of the B2.2 trn and was a grand scheme of Thaksin's to please the Chinese and make a huge amount of money from a project that would not generate sufficient economic benefit compared to its cost and would be hugely loss making to the already bankrupt SRT. The Thai Chamber of Commerce says that an average of 30% of all development projects disappears in corruption. Let me think. that would have been a cool US$6 billion for Thaksin & Co. He must spend every waking hour worrying about where his next billion (USD) is going to come from. I hope he can fit it all in his coffin when he goes.

You are completely wrong here about the origins of HSR aside from the patently obvious fact that politics is involved in all projects as is corruption (hold the press!!).

The HSR lines were first proposed by OTP or MOT in 2009 as a consolidation of previous plans. Here is that plan from August 2009 (does it look familiar??)

They were then endorsed by the Democrats in the previous coalition government in 2010. HSR lines were not new, there having been a few previous proposals. The Rayong line was first proposed in 1996, a southern HSR line in the early 00s and then a Korat HSR line in 2005. It is not like the HSR lines suddenly came out of PTs corruption bag.

Had the Dems been reelected in 2011, they stated that they would have proceeded with construction of the Rayong HSR line by the end of 2011 (realistically that would have been the first half of 2012). PT was elected, and wasted 18 months reviewing the HSR plans and changing their priority to the two northern HSR lines. The first tender was going to be the 86km from Bang Sue to near Ayutthaya (stated to be by the end of 2013).

HSR lines are a policy supported by all of the major parties. The difference was in the priorities of which line got built first and in the PR optics of the program.

[Robby nz]

So all the TVF usual suspects screaming and shrieking about unsustainable infrastructure projects are now joining in the conga line in support. Amazing.

And you cant see the difference between 2.2 trillion borrowed off budget with no scrutiny or transparency.

And agreement in principal to carry out infrastructure projects over 8 years (2015 to 2022) from normal budget expenditures with the normal scrutiny.

[Lakegeneve]

For one I'm glad they put the high speed rail on hold and is instead dual tracking and electrifying the existing meter gauge system. Looking at the success of Malaysia's Electric Train Service, this is all that's needed for now.

I agree with sticking to existing Meter gauge and fix the current tracks and trains. It is then the same guage as Malaysia. Myanmar, Cambodia , Vietnam and the short section into Laos. If Thailand changes then all freight with have to change trains with it's neigbours.

Later if Thailand introduces high speed passenger trains they will need to be on dedicated new railway lines ( can you imagine the crashes if they have slower freight trains running on the same tracks as high speed trains ) and then can be Standard gauge and much easier for passengers to change trains at the borders as they have to go through passport control & customs anyway.

It was always proposed that the HSR lines would be new, completely separate standard gauge lines. It seems that you somehow missed that fundamental point.