Prayuth supports double-track project

[doctorproc156]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

What the hell are you talking about?

He was saying he didn't back 'high speed' electric projects.

Nothing said about they were staying diesel... In fact in the last report he actually said they are backing 10 electric lines.

So your argument is based on nothing more than your terrible ability to read and understand basic English.

Prayuth is doing an amazing job and I would love to see him as a PM on a permanent basis.... he is getting things done at lightening speed.

Can you not read what I said? I said sort of suggests because he said "It's been said that the electric [high-speed] train lines would be built for free. I would like to ask if there is anything free in this world,". In case you have never read a news article before the square brackets are a clarification by the news organization, he sees the high speed and electrification as the same thing, because he is a military general and not a civil engineer. The dual tracking projects have been planned out since the democrat administration and it it has always meant without electrification. There has never been a plan to electrify the meter gauge systems. Perhaps you are the one that needs to brush up on your reading comprehension or perhaps you just can't hold yourself back from blindly bashing when someone even remotely makes a criticism of your great leader.

Edit: The 10 electric lines are the MRT lines in Bangkok

Edited June 13, 2014 by anantha92

[BSJ]

Double track can be beneficial, there is no argument there. Maybe it will be a good thing. It won't break the country financially.

Later on when funds are available they can look at electric locomotives or sets.

The VHST isn't right for now. Putting it on the back burn for reconsideration in 20 years time would be right.

[ginjag]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

What the hell are you talking about?

He was saying he didn't back 'high speed' electric projects.

Nothing said about they were staying diesel... In fact in the last report he actually said they are backing 10 electric lines.

So your argument is based on nothing more than your terrible ability to read and understand basic English.

Prayuth is doing an amazing job and I would love to see him as a PM on a permanent basis.... he is getting things done at lightening speed.

Can you not read what I said? I said sort of suggests because he said "It's been said that the electric [high-speed] train lines would be built for free. I would like to ask if there is anything free in this world,". In case you have never read a news article before the square brackets are a clarification by the news organization, he sees the high speed and electrification as the same thing, because he is a military general and not a civil engineer. The dual tracking projects have been planned out since the democrat administration and it it has always meant without electrification. There has never been a plan to electrify the meter gauge systems. Perhaps you are the one that needs to brush up on your reading comprehension or perhaps you just can't hold yourself back from blindly bashing when someone even remotely makes a criticism of your great leader.

Am I reading you right.

Your vision is the general sat alone at a table with no technical advisors shouting his military orders out and all are having to put up with it ????

No one person can do what he is doing without sound advice, but he is no slouch when it come to common sense and that is every persons dream to have a lot of that, so use a bit EH!!

[ramrod711]

He said the construction of a double-track railway would facilitate both goods and passengers transportation.

Imagine that there was double tracking, imagine that the rail system would not have to be shut down for months while repairs were being made to a single line. I too would like to see standard guage tracks, but if the money isn't there to supply all new rolling stock, what is to be done, nothing? leave it like it is? I don't think so. As for electrification, the infrastructure isn't there. In my village we have frequent power outages, much of the electricity we have is supplied by fossil fuels, I don't see much difference between burning them in a locomotive or a power plant.

[doctorproc156]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

What the hell are you talking about?

He was saying he didn't back 'high speed' electric projects.

Nothing said about they were staying diesel... In fact in the last report he actually said they are backing 10 electric lines.

So your argument is based on nothing more than your terrible ability to read and understand basic English.

Prayuth is doing an amazing job and I would love to see him as a PM on a permanent basis.... he is getting things done at lightening speed.

Can you not read what I said? I said sort of suggests because he said "It's been said that the electric [high-speed] train lines would be built for free. I would like to ask if there is anything free in this world,". In case you have never read a news article before the square brackets are a clarification by the news organization, he sees the high speed and electrification as the same thing, because he is a military general and not a civil engineer. The dual tracking projects have been planned out since the democrat administration and it it has always meant without electrification. There has never been a plan to electrify the meter gauge systems. Perhaps you are the one that needs to brush up on your reading comprehension or perhaps you just can't hold yourself back from blindly bashing when someone even remotely makes a criticism of your great leader.

Am I reading you right.

Your vision is the general sat alone at a table with no technical advisors shouting his military orders out and all are having to put up with it ????

No one person can do what he is doing without sound advice, but he is no slouch when it come to common sense and that is every persons dream to have a lot of that, so use a bit EH!!

Why can't I criticize the NCPOs plans and suggest that they should have included electrification of the meter gauge lines? Electrification of meter gauge lines was never in the plans of the PTP administrations or the Democrat administrations and since this is the new government which just approved a 3 trillion baht plan, I'm making a criticism on how they should have gone about spending their money instead. They are the ruling government after all and all I am saying is that his and his advisors plan is short sighted and that is my opinion. I have personally witnessed the success and benefits of doing both the dual tracking and electrification at the same time just like what Malaysia has just done and I am applying that common sense here.

[tartempion]

He said the construction of a double-track railway would facilitate both goods and passengers transportation.

Yep, in Belgium they thought the same circa 1835.

[DrTuner]

He said the construction of a double-track railway would facilitate both goods and passengers transportation.

Yep, in Belgium they thought the same circa 1835.

Did it work ?

[ginjag]

What the hell are you talking about?

He was saying he didn't back 'high speed' electric projects.

Nothing said about they were staying diesel... In fact in the last report he actually said they are backing 10 electric lines.

So your argument is based on nothing more than your terrible ability to read and understand basic English.

Prayuth is doing an amazing job and I would love to see him as a PM on a permanent basis.... he is getting things done at lightening speed.

Can you not read what I said? I said sort of suggests because he said "It's been said that the electric [high-speed] train lines would be built for free. I would like to ask if there is anything free in this world,". In case you have never read a news article before the square brackets are a clarification by the news organization, he sees the high speed and electrification as the same thing, because he is a military general and not a civil engineer. The dual tracking projects have been planned out since the democrat administration and it it has always meant without electrification. There has never been a plan to electrify the meter gauge systems. Perhaps you are the one that needs to brush up on your reading comprehension or perhaps you just can't hold yourself back from blindly bashing when someone even remotely makes a criticism of your great leader.

Am I reading you right.

Your vision is the general sat alone at a table with no technical advisors shouting his military orders out and all are having to put up with it ????

No one person can do what he is doing without sound advice, but he is no slouch when it come to common sense and that is every persons dream to have a lot of that, so use a bit EH!!

Why can't I criticize the NCPOs plans and suggest that they should have included electrification of the meter gauge lines? Electrification of meter gauge lines was never in the plans of the PTP administrations or the Democrat administrations and since this is the new government which just approved a 3 trillion baht plan, I'm making a criticism on how they should have gone about spending their money instead. They are the ruling government after all and all I am saying is that his and his advisors plan is short sighted and that is my opinion. I have personally witnessed the success and benefits of doing both the dual tracking and electrification at the same time just like what Malaysia has just done and I am applying that common sense here.

Look at your own post -you criticized the general-saying he is army and not an engineer. To make points about different methods is one thing to Knock the man who is doing fantastic in a short space of time is another, He is not a farmer but he is scrapping the rice scheme, He is not a Lawyer but he has told the courts to be fair, he is not all these things you talk about BUT he can get tech advice to what IS needed now not what you think (by the way your suggestions are good) offer your right to argue the points but not to attack the man just because he happens to be the Army boss in charge.

[tingtongteesood]

I don't mind what they do as long as it is paid for over time out of tax payers money as they go along. If it entails taking out ridiculously huge loans and indebting the children and children's children more than they already are, they don't need it....

[doctorproc156]

Am I reading you right.

Your vision is the general sat alone at a table with no technical advisors shouting his military orders out and all are having to put up with it ????

No one person can do what he is doing without sound advice, but he is no slouch when it come to common sense and that is every persons dream to have a lot of that, so use a bit EH!!

Why can't I criticize the NCPOs plans and suggest that they should have included electrification of the meter gauge lines? Electrification of meter gauge lines was never in the plans of the PTP administrations or the Democrat administrations and since this is the new government which just approved a 3 trillion baht plan, I'm making a criticism on how they should have gone about spending their money instead. They are the ruling government after all and all I am saying is that his and his advisors plan is short sighted and that is my opinion. I have personally witnessed the success and benefits of doing both the dual tracking and electrification at the same time just like what Malaysia has just done and I am applying that common sense here.

Look at your own post -you criticized the general-saying he is army and not an engineer. To make points about different methods is one thing to Knock the man who is doing fantastic in a short space of time is another, He is not a farmer but he is scrapping the rice scheme, He is not a Lawyer but he has told the courts to be fair, he is not all these things you talk about BUT he can get tech advice to what IS needed now not what you think (by the way your suggestions are good) offer your right to argue the points but not to attack the man just because he happens to be the Army boss in charge.

I made that comment because he conflated electrification and high speed rail in his statement. In no way am I saying the generals intentions are bad, they are good, but the way his statement was made wasn't clear. But anyway perhaps it is pointless in arguing over the semantics of his statement, we should all just wait and see what the actual plans are later on. His statements today were just preliminary anyway.

[worgeordie]

Thais and electricity is a dangerous combination, better just stick

to Diesel trains,and high speed trains,forget it,pickup driver at

rail crossing, "Yes i can make it over, no bother"

regards worgeordie

[Lakegeneve]

This is one the silly things about the news forum as this is the 3rd thread on the same issue this week. Each time people ask some of the same queries which are often answered in the previous thread....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/732096-five-dual-track-railway-lines-proposed-for-quick-construction-thailand/page-4#entry7945295

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/733728-tdri-proposes-dual-track-railway-project-to-military-junta-for-approval-thailand/#entry7963888

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

The SRT network has been allowed to be run down after 50 years of neglect for political reasons. Hence the reason why there are so many derailments, that so much rolling stock is poor and why ave speeds are so low.

The upgrading program proposed from 10 years ago by OTP/MOT for the whole SRT network planned 3 phases of imporveing the newtowpgrading

1) Network Duplicating (double tracking) and signals upgrading which has been underway for over 10 years - includes the removal of the hundreds of "unofficial crossings" used by locals which contribute to accidents (nearly 50 people are killed a year, mostly motorists attempting to beat trains

2) Gradual electrification of the network based on priority lines (read freight lines)

3) Eventual standardisation of the network (though this is now most unlikely to occur)

Track duplication and signalling upgrades are most urgent (40 yrs overdue). Imagine if a major highway was still a one lane road from 50 years ago! The whole programs would have taken 3-4 decades to implement but the Dems followed by the PT proposed a huge increase in funds in order to implement most works within a 15-20 timeframe. It will allow the SRT to increase ave speeds from 45km/h to around 80-90km/h. Track will have a max operating speed of 120 km/h

The program is currently running around 3-4 years behind schedule. The Dems funded all of these 5 next phases, the money is allocated so the NCPO just had to rubber stamp what has been funded by previous budgets but which were delayed for around 18 months by the previous govt....and then subject to further delay due to political instability. These projects have bipartisan support from all parties.

They are as follows and are fully budgeted under previous budgets;

1) Map Kabao-Jira Junction (132km); 29.855 billion baht

2) Nakhon Pathom-Nong Pladuk-Hua Hin (165km) 20.038 billion baht

3) Lop Buri-Pak Nampo (118km); 24.842 billion baht

4) Nakhon Ratchasima-Khon Kaen (185km); 26.007 billion baht

5) and Prachuap Khiri Khan-Chumphon (167km). 17.292 billion baht

The 106km Kaeng Khoi to Klong 19 to Chanchaengsao line is the next section to be duplicated and is currently under tender. This forms part of the priority Laem Chabang to Kaeng Khoi section. (Laem Chabang to Chachaengsao was completed in 2012)

The previous schedule was this;

The current schedule is basically Phase 1 from 2014-2018

Phase 2 from 2017/18-2022

Phase 3 to be rescheduled upon completion of Phase 1

Whilst the network is being upgrade new line are also proposed to be built

1. Denchai - Chiang Rai - Chiang Khong 326 km, 77 billion Baht (doing EIA)
2. Ban Phai - Mahasarakham - Roi Et- Mukdahan - Nakhon Phanom 347 km, 42 billion Baht

An older thread from last year,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654977-state-railway-of-thailand-bidding-for-dual-tracking-project-soon/

Edited June 13, 2014 by Lakegeneve

[FredNL]

If it comes with track width widening it would be way more comfortable and safer !!!

[doctorproc156]

This is one the silly things about the news forum as this is the 3rd thread on the same issue this week. Each time people ask some of the same queries which are often answered in the previous thread....

So it looks like it will be electrified after all, I was just confused at general Prayuth dismissing the need for electric trains and instead only talking about dual tracking in his statement. Thanks for the info!

Edited June 13, 2014 by anantha92

[ratcatcher]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

What the hell are you talking about?

He was saying he didn't back 'high speed' electric projects.

Nothing said about they were staying diesel... In fact in the last report he actually said they are backing 10 electric lines.

So your argument is based on nothing more than your terrible ability to read and understand basic English.

Prayuth is doing an amazing job and I would love to see him as a PM on a permanent basis.... he is getting things done at lightening speed.

There is a vast difference between "running" the country as head of a military government (with all that entails on the "persuasion" front) and running a country as an elected PM in a true democracy.

You were talking about an elected PM, weren't you, or would this be the "appointed" government?

You seem to have taken a branch line away from the topic fabby. It seems that Gen Prayuth has more idea about how to run a country than many of the preceding PMs, some who were only capable of ruining the country. He seems to have come with a trainload of common sense, a commodity sorely lacking on both sides in parliament over the last few years.. He has the power and will get things done, hopefully without fear or favour. He will certainly be under the scope for any errors. After all, everyone on TVF is watching.

Right now Thailand is in the repair shops and certain actions are necessary for the country to be able to compete with its neighbours

[dru2]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

...'this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified'...

Just how, exactly? What complete nonsense.

[dru2]

Why can't I criticize the NCPOs plans and suggest that they should have included electrification of the meter gauge lines? Electrification of meter gauge lines was never in the plans of the PTP administrations or the Democrat administrations and since this is the new government which just approved a 3 trillion baht plan, I'm making a criticism on how they should have gone about spending their money instead. They are the ruling government after all and all I am saying is that his and his advisors plan is short sighted and that is my opinion. I have personally witnessed the success and benefits of doing both the dual tracking and electrification at the same time just like what Malaysia has just done and I am applying that common sense here.

Your opinion isn't worth anything at all.

[rametindallas]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

All locomotives in the US are Diesel/Electric, meaning diesel powers electric generators to turn electric motors. Expecting electrified lines for freight trains shows that YOU have no idea what you are talking about.

[Cyclist]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

All locomotives in the US are Diesel/Electric, meaning diesel powers electric generators to turn electric motors. Expecting electrified lines for freight trains shows that YOU have no idea what you are talking about.

You're failing to take in to account that the US rail system is one of the most antiquated in the developed world.

[rametindallas]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

All locomotives in the US are Diesel/Electric, meaning diesel powers electric generators to turn electric motors. Expecting electrified lines for freight trains shows that YOU have no idea what you are talking about.

You're failing to take in to account that the US rail system is one of the most antiquated in the developed world.

According to the British news magazine The Economist, "They are universally recognized in the industry as the best in the world." ^[1]Productivity rose 172% between 1981 and 2000, while rates rose 55% (after accounting for inflation). Rail's share of the American freight market rose to 43%, the highest for any rich country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transportation_in_the_United_States

[Globalist]

"You should ask yourselves whether you can accept a 50-year concession that would see more than 100,000 workers being brought to the country and the constructor insisting on land along the route for development."

I suspect this is the real reason. Whenever China does big infrastructure projects in other countries like Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and even African countries they bring in Chinese laborers. Often times these laborers don't return to China and stay put whether they have a visa or not. The General is right to be concerned.

Exactly!

Refreshing to see a leader who says no to Chinese imperialism.

Also, going for double track instead of high-speed seems like better invested money.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Globalist

[Mudcrab]

There is a loss of opportunity here if it isn't done in 1 go, Thailand will lose its competitive edge compared to countries like Malaysia which have already completed their electrification of their systems. Malaysia did the dual tracking and electrification in 1 go and it has been extremely successful for them. This is a mid step and a compromise between high speed rail and a basic dual track train system. Seriously have you seen how slow things are done here, if you are going to wait for the entire double tracking to be done and then wait for the electrification and wait for the electric rolling stock later then countries like Vietnam will swallow Thailand's competitive edge of which it is already seriously lacking.

All good stuff.

But where are you going to get the electric power from? There are power restrictions right now due to lack of generation. Electricity doesn't come out of fresh air. Diesel however can be transported by the prime mover...i.e the train itself.

A couple of 2 gigawatt nuclear power stations might be the answer.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Mudcrab

[bangrak]

So this sort of suggests that the dual tracked lines won't be electrified and they will continue to run diesel train services. This is exactly why we can't have military generals who have no idea what they are talking about from running the country....

Sorry genius, TiT! Have you been thinking about the 'quality' of electric supply here, about the maintenance of the upper lines, not to speak about morons loading trucks above 6m. high, crossing the tracks...? Let's not be backwards though, modern, gas turbine locs seem to be doing a good and clean job, and they are low maintenance (very important here), shall we agree on that, more economical, alternative for the moment?

[Mudcrab]

Look at your own post -you criticized the general-saying he is army and not an engineer. To make points about different methods is one thing to Knock the man who is doing fantastic in a short space of time is another, He is not a farmer but he is scrapping the rice scheme, He is not a Lawyer but he has told the courts to be fair, he is not all these things you talk about BUT he can get tech advice to what IS needed now not what you think (by the way your suggestions are good) offer your right to argue the points but not to attack the man just because he happens to be the Army boss in charge.

If he was running a company we would call him a damn fine MANAGER....no need to be a technical expert in all things but know how to bring the experts together and get the best outcome.

[bangrak]

"The Pheu Thai government, which proposed a high-speed train project, claimed that China would build it for Thailand free of charge."

I don't recall that bit, surely the Chinese were willing to build their High-speed freight-line China-Singapore-via-Thailand, but then PTP decided it should be a passenger-network serving anywhere there were voters, and that Thailand should borrow 50-year loans to pay for it ?

I think you're right, I don't recall the Chinese saying, about the high-speed train, they were going to do it for free, but I remember some high 'government' representative saying the Chinese had agreed to be paid... in rice! LOL (maybe 'for free' here means at the value of rotten unsaleable rice)

[bangrak]

Just two words that I missed in the General's release: STANDARD GAUGE (for us Farangs), or WIDE GAUGE (for Thais), just two words, making all the difference, as when they decide to stick to their antiquated narrow, also called mountain-, gauge, it will be the same catastrophy times 4 (when you have s..t narrow double tracks and a train derails, what does the train coming from the opposite direction do, tu-tuuut, BOING?)

[Lakegeneve]

This is one the silly things about the news forum as this is the 3rd thread on the same issue this week. Each time people ask some of the same queries which are often answered in the previous thread....

So it looks like it will be electrified after all, I was just confused at general Prayuth dismissing the need for electric trains and instead only talking about dual tracking in his statement. Thanks for the info!

I'd suggest that what will happen once most of the Phase 2 part of duplication is completed and ave speeds are around the 100km + mark, is that some of the important freight lines will get electrified first, eg Laem Chabang to Korat and the NE line to Nong Khai. (Nong Khai line needs to be upgraded to make the proposed Laos HSR line viable). The long term efficiency for the SRT will be in being able to move large volumes of freight around the country on a network which is electrified.

Prayuth was dismissing funding the HSR plans at the moment and in the context where PT proposed granting 50 year land concession and large numbers of foreign workers (read Chinese) were going to be involved in the project. Instead Prayuth wants to see the NE line double tracked as a priority and possibly electrified sooner (to be decided).

That makes sense for now given the HSR lines association with PT even though it was in fact originally Democrat coalition govt (with BJT) policy. I've made the point many times that had the Dems been reelected in 2011, that they were ready to start construction of the Rayong HSR by the end of 2011 (realistically the first half of 2012).

PT just wasted time (18 months) by reviewing the HSR plans, politicising them even more by changing their priorities to the two northern lines. That being said, the first part that was to be tendered was 86kms of HSR line from Bang Sue to just past Ayuttahya. That would have been a good start even though the Rayong HSR is the most economically profitable.

Of course, the ironic fact for those who applaud the deferring of PT transport policies under the 2.2 trillion funding package due to corruption, is that the current decision makers are now proposing nearly an extra trillion baht in transport & logistic programs for rail, seaports and air and that is without the 800 billion for HSR lines!! Their program adds up to 3 trillion!!

The Transport Ministry has drawn up the outline of a Bt3-trillion eight-year (2015-22) investment plan for infrastructure projects. Most are in line with the ministry's previous plan that focused on transport and logistics, such as double-track railways, mass-transit trains and improvements of highways and ports.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Construction-stocks-rise-in-anticipation-of-infras-30236203.html

It will be interesting to see if there is any debate in the future on this fact....

The 3 trillion baht plans:

(Note to mods: I'd appreciate allowing this graphic as it really is a good concise picture of exactly what is currently being proposed)

Note: the 2020 date ignores the fact that the double track/duplication program is running 3-4 year behind schedule as noted in my previous post.

Double tracking/duplicating the network and HSR lines are bipartisan policy and make economical, health and environmental sense in a country with a growing middle class and where very expensive, uneconomical motorways/highways cannot keep getting built for ever. The disagreement is over the optics of how various projects have been sold, what to do proceed with first and which political groupings will benefit from the projects that they approve whilst in power.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Lakegeneve

[oldsailor35]

a train that does not derail every other week would be a good start

maybe some education for the drivers & maintenance?

why 100.000 foreign workers , thais to good to build ? why not the army, while they are not at war with anybody, for the benefit of the country...

Running out of Butterworth on the train to Surat Thani recently i settled back in my seat and relaxed, it was such a smooth journey, no rocking n rolling, at least until we passed into Thailand and then the journey became hell.

Clatter bang bang, shaking and rolling, it became an awful journey. The reason , as we were on the same train ?

The answer was the fact that the Malaysian Railways had new concrete sleepers under their track and the Thai Railways were mostly old worn out timber sleepers. Maintenance is what they need to start off with, not new electric trains.

[oldsailor35]

Is'nt Prayuth getting a bit beyond himself, making decisions concerning the railways and the Chinese proposed Kra canal.

Surely he is there to sort the political situation, not planning of the country's logistical future.

[Tomtomtom69]

Apropos trains in ASEAN ...

Haha not yet the case for any of these countries (except for Thailand), but well let's see what the future holds!