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[Asiantravel]

A Thai person has asked me for an unsecured personal loan involving quite a reasonable amount to be repaid in monthly instalments.

I do trust this person will pay me back but I don't want to incur the risk of losing the money through unforeseen circumstances such as death or sickness. I agreed to consider their request subject to this person paying all the costs of obtaining personal loan insurance protection for the loan amount through an insurance company such as AIA.

Has anyone had any experience of this kind of insurance policy?

[Soutpeel]

I don't really see how this could work involving a person to person loan, due to the risk of a fraudulent claim

[Asiantravel]

I don't really see how this could work involving a person to person loan, due to the risk of a fraudulent claim

But how could there be a fraudulent claim? This is only to insure against the borrower not being able to pay back the money as agreed, due to

1. death
2. an illness that is so serious that they are hospitalised or are physically unable to attend work for an extended period of time due to sickness.

[happynthailand]

just remember,

don't anybody any money,you can't afford loss

loan money on an unsecured loan ,you'll never see the money again

[Asiantravel]

just remember,

don't anybody any money,you can't afford loss

loan money on an unsecured loan ,you'll never see the money again

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

[ezzra]

Caution, landing UNSECURED money to Thai people, friends, sweetheart, boss and family is akin

to 80 % you'll never see this money again and if you will it will be long, long time from now and

that after you begged, asked, threatened and swathed bullets and had sleepless night,

get the loan on a legal piece of paper, witnessed, with a lawyer if possible and a guarantee check

in your hand, may than, maybe, you will see you money back, I have been battened so many times

here that I'm gladly worn any one not to believe anything a borrower said, back it us with documents

and collaterals and that you be safe... sort of...

[Soutpeel]

just remember,

don't anybody any money,you can't afford loss

loan money on an unsecured loan ,you'll never see the money again

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

[Asiantravel]

just remember,

don't anybody any money,you can't afford loss

loan money on an unsecured loan ,you'll never see the money again

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Soutpeel]

just remember,

don't anybody any money,you can't afford loss

loan money on an unsecured loan ,you'll never see the money again

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

Based on all this all the more reason to say no IMHO but that's just me

What is it to you if she does or doesn't got to a loan shark, unless you have some "romantic" involvement or you want some

Edited June 15, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Asiantravel]

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

Based on all this all the more reason to say no IMHO but that's just me

What is it to you if she does or doesn't got to a loan shark, unless you have some "romantic" involvement or you want some

lol No, it's not that at all. I respect what you're saying and this is what makes it difficult for me to decide if I should or shouldn't.

like I said I would never ever have considered providing an unsecured loan like this normally but it's only the fact that providing such a loan set off against the future payment of rent ( which has to be paid anyway ) is not such a big deal provided I am protected legally if it helps someone in dire straits.

After all when you're providing this kind of favour to a member of the building management staff, you never know when you might need them to return such a favour

Edited June 15, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Soutpeel]

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

Based on all this all the more reason to say no IMHO but that's just me

What is it to you if she does or doesn't got to a loan shark, unless you have some "romantic" involvement or you want some

lol No, it's not that at all. I respect what you're saying and this is what makes it difficult for me to decide if I should or shouldn't.

like I said I would never ever have considered providing an unsecured loan like this normally but it's only the fact that providing such a loan set off against the future payment of rent ( which has to be paid anyway ) is not such a big deal provided I am protected legally if it helps someone in dire straits.

After all when you're providing this kind of favour to a member of the building management staff, you never know when you might need them to return such a favour

How much are we talking about ?

Ask yourself why have you been approached and none of the other residents ?

If you don't feel comfortable about...don't do it....its your money

Your being pressured into handing over your own money

How can you be legally protected ?.....you give them money they can't pay back, you take them to court, court order to pay money back, they still dont have the money to pay you back...... Result you don't get your money back

If you are going to do this take some collateral off them, gold, motocy etc

Edited June 15, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Asiantravel]

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

Based on all this all the more reason to say no IMHO but that's just me

What is it to you if she does or doesn't got to a loan shark, unless you have some "romantic" involvement or you want some

lol No, it's not that at all. I respect what you're saying and this is what makes it difficult for me to decide if I should or shouldn't.

like I said I would never ever have considered providing an unsecured loan like this normally but it's only the fact that providing such a loan set off against the future payment of rent ( which has to be paid anyway ) is not such a big deal provided I am protected legally if it helps someone in dire straits.

After all when you're providing this kind of favour to a member of the building management staff, you never know when you might need them to return such a favour

How much are we talking about ?

Ask yourself why have you been approached and none of the other residents ?

If you don't feel comfortable about...don't do it....its your money

Your being pressured into handing over your own money

How can you be legally protected ?.....you give them money they can't pay back, you take them to court, court order to pay money back, they still dont have the money to pay you back...... Result you don't get your money back

If you are going to do this take some collateral off them, gold, motocy etc

“ How can you be legally protected ?.....you give them money they can't pay back “

But I don't expect to get the money back? I just expect to be allowed to then live in my apartment rent-free for the amount of time that represents the loan amount. When I say legally protected I'm talking about it being legally recognised that the amount I would be handing over as a loan is to be regarded as nothing other than advance payment of rent. Keeping it in terms of advance rental payment is far better for me than getting involved in tangible collateral which I don't think this person has anyway.

[Soutpeel]

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

Based on all this all the more reason to say no IMHO but that's just me

What is it to you if she does or doesn't got to a loan shark, unless you have some "romantic" involvement or you want some

lol No, it's not that at all. I respect what you're saying and this is what makes it difficult for me to decide if I should or shouldn't.

like I said I would never ever have considered providing an unsecured loan like this normally but it's only the fact that providing such a loan set off against the future payment of rent ( which has to be paid anyway ) is not such a big deal provided I am protected legally if it helps someone in dire straits.

After all when you're providing this kind of favour to a member of the building management staff, you never know when you might need them to return such a favour

How much are we talking about ?

Ask yourself why have you been approached and none of the other residents ?

If you don't feel comfortable about...don't do it....its your money

Your being pressured into handing over your own money

How can you be legally protected ?.....you give them money they can't pay back, you take them to court, court order to pay money back, they still dont have the money to pay you back...... Result you don't get your money back

If you are going to do this take some collateral off them, gold, motocy etc

“ How can you be legally protected ?.....you give them money they can't pay back “

But I don't expect to get the money back? I just expect to be allowed to then live in my apartment rent-free for the amount of time that represents the loan amount. When I say legally protected I'm talking about it being legally recognised that the amount I would be handing over as a loan is to be regarded as nothing other than advance payment of rent. Keeping it in terms of advance rental payment is far better for me than getting involved in tangible collateral which I don't think this person has anyway.

Seems to me you have already convinced yourself your going to hand over this money, so why even post a question on TV ?

Personally if it was me I wouldn't be doing it.....but as they say "up to you"

Is the person your making the loan to the legal owner of the property your renting ? If they are not this argument of advanced payment on rental is moot, the person concerned has no legal right to do this

[Asiantravel]

SoutpeelSeems to me you have already convinced yourself your going to hand over this money, so why even post a question on TV ?

Personally if it was me I wouldn't be doing it.....but as they say "up to you"

Is the person your making the loan to the legal owner of the property your renting ? If they are not this argument of advanced payment on rental is moot, the person concerned has no legal right to do this

No, I haven't at all convinced myself to hand over the money yet and the purpose of raising the original question was regarding insurance protection.

The person I would be loaning the money to if I went ahead is the property manager and her employer is the owner of the entire building. These are not condominiums under separate ownership.

[Soutpeel]

SoutpeelSeems to me you have already convinced yourself your going to hand over this money, so why even post a question on TV ?

Personally if it was me I wouldn't be doing it.....but as they say "up to you"

Is the person your making the loan to the legal owner of the property your renting ? If they are not this argument of advanced payment on rental is moot, the person concerned has no legal right to do this

No, I haven't at all convinced myself to hand over the money yet and the purpose of raising the original question was regarding insurance protection.

The person I would be loaning the money to if I went ahead is the property manager and her employer is the owner of the entire building. These are not condominiums under separate ownership.

Let the employer give her the money then and take it out of her salary then you don't gave to worry about loan protection, which I believe no insurance company will underwrite anyway in this case anyway

Further if your not worried about getting the money back and the money handed over is against future rent, why do you need insurance protection anyway, you wouldn't need it

[worgeordie]

Don't do it.theres a 1000 reasons why not to,would anyone lend you money ?,

anyone i have ever lent money to has never paid it back,they pressure you to

lend it to them,then cannot look you in the eyes after and do everything to

avoid you. just say no. better to loose a pseudo friend than your hard earned

cash

regards worgeordie

[Cloggie]

If you loose your money you can read this thread again and think " why did I not listen to all these people, now my money is gone and they all told me NOT to do it"

Rule number one in Thailand "Never ever lend any money to any person, not even family"

[Asiantravel]

I would just like to conclude by saying I didn't go ahead with the loan after all. I just made some conditions and deliberately made them a bit hard, so the person involved lost interest.

Thank you to everybody for their input

[Cloggie]

A very wise decision!

[Soutpeel]

I would just like to conclude by saying I didn't go ahead with the loan after all. I just made some conditions and deliberately made them a bit hard, so the person involved lost interest.

Thank you to everybody for their input

Good decision I think

[harrry]

just remember,

don't anybody any money,you can't afford loss

loan money on an unsecured loan ,you'll never see the money again

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

No such thing as vicarious liability here. The employer here is not responsible for the performance or actions of any of their employees. Silly but that is the way it is. Only way here is to do business only in small chunks and cash on delivery of each chunk only.

[Asiantravel]

This is my gut feel I have to be honest. I don't feel 100% comfortable with it, but this person is putting incredible pressure on me saying it will avoid sleepless nights etc

I keep asking why they cannot go to a bank? If they went to a bank would the requirements for taking out a personal loan be unduly difficult for them?

Hold on its your money, you don't feel comfortable with it and they are putting pressure on you......I know what my response would be.....No,

if they can't get a loan from the bank, there are loan sharks who will give them the money, my advice don't get involved in this you are surely going to lose some of all your money

If they profess to be a real friend they will understand you saying No....if they keep pressuring you or get angry with you, they are not a real friend and your being used

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

No such thing as vicarious liability here. The employer here is not responsible for the performance or actions of any of their employees. Silly but that is the way it is. Only way here is to do business only in small chunks and cash on delivery of each chunk only.

can I ask where you got this advice/information because I specifically asked this question on the Ask the Lawyer section in this forum on 2 May and Somsak Lawyer said vicarious liability does apply in Thailand?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/723142-vicarious-liability/

[Asiantravel]

I would just like to conclude by saying I didn't go ahead with the loan after all. I just made some conditions and deliberately made them a bit hard, so the person involved lost interest.

Thank you to everybody for their input

Good decision I think

yes

[harrry]

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

No such thing as vicarious liability here. The employer here is not responsible for the performance or actions of any of their employees. Silly but that is the way it is. Only way here is to do business only in small chunks and cash on delivery of each chunk only.

can I ask where you got this advice/information because I specifically asked this question on the Ask the Lawyer section in this forum on 2 May and Somsak Lawyer said vicarious liability does apply in Thailand?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/723142-vicarious-liability/

Section 428. An employer is not liable for damage done by the contractor to a third person in the course of the work, unless the employer was at fault in regard to the word ordered or to his instructions or to the selection of the contractor.

She sounds like a contractor to me and not an employee.

also.

What you have described is not in accordance to her work. You intended to loan her the money and for her to pay your rent. Not something the employer would have authorised.

Even if you paid your rent in advance to her and got a receipt as a contractor the employee could still come after you for any money she has not handed over to him. This is quite common here. Especially with insurance policies where the person finds out even though he has a paper policy it is void as the agent has not paid for it.

Edited June 16, 2014 by harrry

[Asiantravel]

The loan would not be made to a friend but actually to the person who is responsible for collecting rents in the building where I stay. So she is in effect the property manager responsible for collecting and handling all rents and other money.

The reason she has come to me is because her predecessor came to me in a similar way one year ago and I agreed to a smaller loan to her based on a signed agreement which specified the outstanding amount of the loan would be set against my due rental payments each month for a predetermined period until the balance had been paid off.

The written agreement at that time said quite clearly the payment I made to her was for advance payment of rent and I know that it may have been a bit devious me but I banked on the idea that if anything had gone wrong, I could just simply turn round and say her employer had vicarious liability for her actions regarding my money and whatever the scenario that eventually happened, the bottom line was I had paid my rent in advance. Everything worked out with that okay and there were no problems.

This request for a loan from this second person is an emergency on her part but I must admit I don't like being regarded as a source of informal loans just because I am a foreigner. Her employer has agreed to pay a small amount but I keep thinking why is that?

So what about if I agreed to loan to the employer which is then immediately paid to her but with a written agreement between the employer and me which clearly specifies if she does not perform by paying her employer back I would still be in effect protected having paid the rent once again in advance?

I'm only doing this because I don't want her to go to a loan shark.

No such thing as vicarious liability here. The employer here is not responsible for the performance or actions of any of their employees. Silly but that is the way it is. Only way here is to do business only in small chunks and cash on delivery of each chunk only.

can I ask where you got this advice/information because I specifically asked this question on the Ask the Lawyer section in this forum on 2 May and Somsak Lawyer said vicarious liability does apply in Thailand?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/723142-vicarious-liability/

Section 428. An employer is not liable for damage done by the contractor to a third person in the course of the work, unless the employer was at fault in regard to the word ordered or to his instructions or to the selection of the contractor.

She sounds like a contractor to me and not an employee.

also.

What you have described is not in accordance to her work. You intended to loan her the money and for her to pay your rent. Not something the employer would have authorised.

Even if you paid your rent in advance to her and got a receipt as a contractor the employee could still come after you for any money she has not handed over to him. This is quite common here. Especially with insurance policies where the person finds out even though he has a paper policy it is void as the agent has not paid for it.

Well yes when someone is fulfilling a contract there is no employer employee relationship but I can't see anywhere in my posts where I have given the impression that she is a contractor and how you came to that conclusion?

She is most definitely a straightforward employee. She gets a monthly salary,

Anyway bottom line is she is subject to vicarious liability.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Asiantravel

[harrry]

Section 428. An employer is not liable for damage done by the contractor to a third person in the course of the work, unless the employer was at fault in regard to the word ordered or to his instructions or to the selection of the contractor.

She sounds like a contractor to me and not an employee.

also.

What you have described is not in accordance to her work. You intended to loan her the money and for her to pay your rent. Not something the employer would have authorised.

Even if you paid your rent in advance to her and got a receipt as a contractor the employee could still come after you for any money she has not handed over to him. This is quite common here. Especially with insurance policies where the person finds out even though he has a paper policy it is void as the agent has not paid for it.

Well yes when someone is fulfilling a contract there is no employer employee relationship but I can't see anywhere in my posts where I have given the impression that she is a contractor and how you came to that conclusion?

She is most definitely a straightforward employee. She gets a monthly salary,

Anyway bottom line is she is subject to vicarious liability.

in regard to the word ordered or to his instructions

did he instruct her to take the loan?

[Pundi6446]

#1 lesson for Thailand "Do Not Loan Money To Anyone"

[Jip99]

I would just like to conclude by saying I didn't go ahead with the loan after all. I just made some conditions and deliberately made them a bit hard, so the person involved lost interest.

Thank you to everybody for their input

You got there eventually - but then you knew you would, as soon as you made the opening post.

[Asiantravel]

Section 428. An employer is not liable for damage done by the contractor to a third person in the course of the work, unless the employer was at fault in regard to the word ordered or to his instructions or to the selection of the contractor.

She sounds like a contractor to me and not an employee.

also.

What you have described is not in accordance to her work. You intended to loan her the money and for her to pay your rent. Not something the employer would have authorised.

Even if you paid your rent in advance to her and got a receipt as a contractor the employee could still come after you for any money she has not handed over to him. This is quite common here. Especially with insurance policies where the person finds out even though he has a paper policy it is void as the agent has not paid for it.

Well yes when someone is fulfilling a contract there is no employer employee relationship but I can't see anywhere in my posts where I have given the impression that she is a contractor and how you came to that conclusion?

She is most definitely a straightforward employee. She gets a monthly salary,

Anyway bottom line is she is subject to vicarious liability.

in regard to the word ordered or to his instructions

did he instruct her to take the loan?

He didn't have to instruct to take the loan because had I gone ahead with it the document I had prepared made no reference to a loan. The document was clearly headed and explained in several paragraphs the money I was paying over to her would have represented nothing other than advance payment of rent. What she did with that money afterwards had nothing to do with me.

The intention would have been afterwards that she would have paid my monthly rent out of her salary, but there was no reference to this in the document.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Asiantravel