Honda brakes

[ClareQuilty]

Does anyone know if older Hondas are known for rather 'sudden' brakes? I'm considering buying an old Honda City around 2002 model. The car is in excellent condition, well kept, and runs well.

However, it has extremely sensitive brakes - just a light touch causes the car to jerk suddenly to a stop. A very different feel from my Toyota's more 'even' or 'progressive' brakes, and frankly I hate it.

My friend told me that 'older Honda's are like that'. Can anyone comment if this is in fact the case?

[ClutchClark]

I have owned Hondas that span over 15 years but I don't know quite the issue you descriibed. It might be that the brake system is in disrepair? Maybe the brake fluid needs to be to be replaced and the lines bled. Maybe the brakepads are of poor quality and are grabby.

I operate quite alot of different vehicles and it usually just takes a few days until your muscle memory adapts to the new vehicle.

Hondas are a very dependable vehicle. Good luck.

[WarpSpeed]

I think your Toyota is so old it's either not power brakes or a very old generation of power brakes, nothing like a 2002, gonna take some getting used to. Without being able to actually drive it though, not likely able to give an accurate assessment. FYI older fluid will give a spongy feel not a grabby feel.. That's not to say it couldn't use a bleed though.

Edited June 14, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[ClutchClark]

I think your Toyota is so old it's either not power brakes or a very old generation of power brakes, nothing like a 2002, gonna take some getting used to. Without being able to actually drive it though, not likely able to give an accurate assessment. FYI older fluid will give a spongy feel not a grabby feel.. That's not to say it couldn't use a bleed though.

Warp, if the fluid is old then its also more likely for dirt and sediment to have collected in the brake calipers--the end of the line so to speak. This debris can effect the smooth functioning of the caliper and more force at the pedal might be required--since different calipers might have different amounts of contaminant, it can result in a grabbiness.

Although you are correct that old fluid will result in sponginess just like air in the system.

Would you agree?

[WarpSpeed]

So which car are you referring to? The older Toy or the newer Honda? If fluid is bad generally it doesn't have large particles contaminating it as a rule especially not a car that new. Generally the contamination is from moisture or air from fluid reaching high temps (read boiling) but large contaminants are unusual with the filters and such they have now and only moisture or air will create internal damage over time but, it's the primary catalyst for creating that damage so therefore a spongy pedal well before any other pedal problems. Most times what causes hard pedals is the caliper not backing off but that usually isn't an internal contaminant that causes that there is too much pedal force applied for most minor internal contaminants to prevent the pedal from compressing, meaning it's more likely to be an external mechanical problem.

Edited June 14, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[ClutchClark]

So which car are you referring to? The older Toy or the newer Honda? If fluid is bad generally it doesn't have large particles contaminating it as a rule especially not a car that new. Generally the contamination is from moisture or air from fluid reaching high temps (read boiling) but large contaminants are unusual with the filters and such they have now and only moisture or air will create internal damage over time but, it's the primary catalyst for creating that damage so therefore a spongy pedal well before any other pedal problems. Most times what causes hard pedals is the caliper not backing off but that usually isn't an internal contaminant that causes that there is too much pedal force applied for most minor internal contaminants to prevent the pedal from compressing, meaning it's more likely to be an external mechanical problem.

I was really just being polite when I asked if you agreed. I already knew the answer based on my experience.

You respond with terms like "more likely" and "usually" shows you don't disagree.

Your statement about a filter...I am assuming you mean the filter at the fill reservoir? That is for external contaminants but I was referring to the internal sludge that is a result of moisture in the lines causing corrosion. When you bleed brakes you know the rust color of the old fluid and if you drain the fluid into a clear glass jar you can actually see particulants.

Anyway, back to the OP question--are you familiar with Honda of that era having a reputation for or complaints of:

" extremely sensitive brakes - just a light touch causes the car to jerk suddenly to a stop."

Edited June 14, 2014 by ClutchClark

[kartman]

Sorry Clare but it's down to being able to drive.

[Spoonman]

Are the jerky brakes present the whole time or just when they are cold ? The brakes in my Ranger will put you through the windscreen at the slightest touch until they got some heat into them.

[BSJ]

My grandpappy had a 62 Fairlane like that. Power drum brakes all round. After the mechanic had looked at the problem several times he came to the conclusion the biggest problem was the nut behind the wheel!

[stubuzz]

Do the brakes stop you in a straight line, or do they pull you to the side?

[WarpSpeed]

So which car are you referring to? The older Toy or the newer Honda? If fluid is bad generally it doesn't have large particles contaminating it as a rule especially not a car that new. Generally the contamination is from moisture or air from fluid reaching high temps (read boiling) but large contaminants are unusual with the filters and such they have now and only moisture or air will create internal damage over time but, it's the primary catalyst for creating that damage so therefore a spongy pedal well before any other pedal problems. Most times what causes hard pedals is the caliper not backing off but that usually isn't an internal contaminant that causes that there is too much pedal force applied for most minor internal contaminants to prevent the pedal from compressing, meaning it's more likely to be an external mechanical problem.

I was really just being polite when I asked if you agreed. I already knew the answer based on my experience.

You respond with terms like "more likely" and "usually" shows you don't disagree.

Your statement about a filter...I am assuming you mean the filter at the fill reservoir? That is for external contaminants but I was referring to the internal sludge that is a result of moisture in the lines causing corrosion. When you bleed brakes you know the rust color of the old fluid and if you drain the fluid into a clear glass jar you can actually see particulants.

Anyway, back to the OP question--are you familiar with Honda of that era having a reputation for or complaints of:

" extremely sensitive brakes - just a light touch causes the car to jerk suddenly to a stop."

Well thank you for your patronizing and condescending response, too bad you don't actually know from your experience.. A car that new does not 'generally' have the issues with which you speak and I phrase it that way because no matter how versed one may THINK they are? It's nonsense to speak in absolutes, especially when you can't see or drive the car.. It takes a hell of a lot of moisture and a long time sitting idle to cause the problems you mentioned and as a rule a car that new doesn't get that sort of abuse if it's being used daily.. THAT I can say in absolutes and I'm being polite too.

FYI I knew well what contaminants you were referring to and if you were capable of comprehending my post you'd a seen that I addressed that as well.

Edited June 15, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

Change the pads, if it makes no difference eventually your foot will become accustomed to the pedal.

I used to drive heavy goods vehicles with air brakes that were a pain with no load, you get used to it in a short time.

[Ace of Pop]

Just go to Honda and get it fixed.Hondas don't have brake "Their All Like That" problems. That's reserved for Ford Trucks.

[Spoonman]

Just go to Honda and get it fixed.Hondas don't have brake "Their All Like That" problems. That's reserved for Ford Trucks.

You just cannot help yourself can you. constant jibes make you a very tedious poster. please leave.

[sjonburi]

I know it's tempting but just don't feed the troll..

Just go to Honda and get it fixed.Hondas don't have brake "Their All Like That" problems. That's reserved for Ford Trucks.

You just cannot help yourself can you. constant jibes make you a very tedious poster. please leave.

[Ace of Pop]

Yeh, Spooney you just take over the whole lot. Yer Heads Big Enough,and humorless as a service book

[transam]

I know it's tempting but just don't feed the troll..

Just go to Honda and get it fixed.Hondas don't have brake "Their All Like That" problems. That's reserved for Ford Trucks.

You just cannot help yourself can you. constant jibes make you a very tedious poster. please leave.

[Ace of Pop]

No doubt T.A.s comment referred to Ford Trucks, not pickups, they really grabbed.But as usual Mr Insecure jumped in as if all Ford comments are directed at him. I was answering the O.P.s Honda Sudden question.

[transam]

Yeh, Spooney you just take over the whole lot. Yer Heads Big Enough,and humorless as a service book

take over the whole lot ?

Is that more of your humour.... lay of the cans yeah as your humour is not remotely funny and mostly downright insulting and the only one that get's it is your chum transman.... .... maybe you are his alter ego.... and an IP addy check is in order.

Heeeeeeeey, don't bring me into your stuff eh.........I have the ability to understand AoP's stuff, you and perhaps others obviously haven't, so back off.

[culicine]

Check what pads it has got. Are they original honda pads or aftermarket? I don't know about the city, but in my 2004 honda civic the OEM pads have no bite at all. They really do not pull you up fast enough at low speeds (certainly when they are cold). I changed them out for something with more bite. My swift is much more bitey - I really have to adjust when I swap cars. Its something you can adapt too - ease on the brake rather than jumping on it too abruptly. It doesn't sound like something is wrong. I just think that is the characteristic of the pad in that particular (newish?) car. In an older car, I'd probably get it looked at though.

[Woodsie888]

Have someone take a look.

Grabbing brakes are more often than not caused by leaking wheel cylinders on the rear if drum brakes or leaking calliper seals.

Nothing to worry about and a very simple fix.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes, like I said earlier not very likely to be fluid and more likely to be mechanical.. Beyond that, without actually driving and testing all else is mere speculation at best.

[seedy]

Most all disc brake calipers are single acting - the pistons push the brake pads against the rotor from one side only.

To enable this to happen, and for the brakes to fully release, the caliper must be able to move a slight amount. This will ensure that the residual pressure in the disc brake system does not keep the pads pressed against the rotor too much, causing heat buildup and rapid pad and rotor wear.

Check to see if the calipers move. After a few years - or many miles, the crud from the road can seize them so them are stationary.

Never-Seez is used on the parts to ensure movement. Some systems use pins, some a wedge, check with the service manual or a mechanic who knows What the F--- he is doing.

Edited June 15, 2014 by seedy

[ClutchClark]

My grandpappy had a 62 Fairlane like that. Power drum brakes all round. After the mechanic had looked at the problem several times he came to the conclusion the biggest problem was the nut behind the wheel!

Thats great comedy ;-)

I had a '66 Fairlane ragtop with a little 289. Unfortunately it was an automatic.

[ClutchClark]

So which car are you referring to? The older Toy or the newer Honda? If fluid is bad generally it doesn't have large particles contaminating it as a rule especially not a car that new. Generally the contamination is from moisture or air from fluid reaching high temps (read boiling) but large contaminants are unusual with the filters and such they have now and only moisture or air will create internal damage over time but, it's the primary catalyst for creating that damage so therefore a spongy pedal well before any other pedal problems. Most times what causes hard pedals is the caliper not backing off but that usually isn't an internal contaminant that causes that there is too much pedal force applied for most minor internal contaminants to prevent the pedal from compressing, meaning it's more likely to be an external mechanical problem.

I was really just being polite when I asked if you agreed. I already knew the answer based on my experience.

You respond with terms like "more likely" and "usually" shows you don't disagree.

Your statement about a filter...I am assuming you mean the filter at the fill reservoir? That is for external contaminants but I was referring to the internal sludge that is a result of moisture in the lines causing corrosion. When you bleed brakes you know the rust color of the old fluid and if you drain the fluid into a clear glass jar you can actually see particulants.

Anyway, back to the OP question--are you familiar with Honda of that era having a reputation for or complaints of:

" extremely sensitive brakes - just a light touch causes the car to jerk suddenly to a stop."

Well thank you for your patronizing and condescending response, too bad you don't actually know from your experience.. A car that new does not 'generally' have the issues with which you speak and I phrase it that way because no matter how versed one may THINK they are? It's nonsense to speak in absolutes, especially when you can't see or drive the car.. It takes a hell of a lot of moisture and a long time sitting idle to cause the problems you mentioned and as a rule a car that new doesn't get that sort of abuse if it's being used daily.. THAT I can say in absolutes and I'm being polite too.

FYI I knew well what contaminants you were referring to and if you were capable of comprehending my post you'd a seen that I addressed that as well.

Warp, I didn't mean to get you all wound up. I was just trying to say I didn't need a lecture. You obviously know what you are talking about and we just approached the issue from from two different ends just like mechanics will do in a shop a half dozen times a day.

You were the one that seemed to be speaking in absolutes and I the OP was talking about an older Honda with the braking issue and so I was also talking about issues with that vintage vehicle. You are talking about newer cars if I understand your post correctly...but maybe I don't.

No disrespect was intended.

And I still wonder if you have heard of that vintage Honda having a reputation for the brake issue? I did not ask for sake of argument but because you obviously have knowledge.

Edited June 15, 2014 by ClutchClark

[BSJ]

My grandpappy had a 62 Fairlane like that. Power drum brakes all round. After the mechanic had looked at the problem several times he came to the conclusion the biggest problem was the nut behind the wheel!

Thats great comedy ;-)

I had a '66 Fairlane ragtop with a little 289. Unfortunately it was an automatic.

Ah the American's.....they got all the good models out of the local dealership.

A little humour doesn't go astray in some of these threads when the knives come out!

[WarpSpeed]

What vintage Honda?? 2002?? Again you've done it, I didn't give you a lecture, I gave information you obviously needed.. Your PM is basically junk too, it carries the same tone. A 2002 IS considered a newer car.. It's not a classic... It's in the newer era of ABS and other enhancements so that classes it as newer, nothing like the OP's current 80's Toyota..

[ClutchClark]

What vintage Honda?? 2002?? Again you've done it, I didn't give you a lecture, I gave information you obviously needed.. Your PM is basically junk too, it carries the same tone. A 2002 IS considered a newer car.. It's not a classic... It's in the newer era of ABS and other enhancements so that classes it as newer, nothing like the OP's current 80's Toyota..

Warp, I did not mean to insult your ego. I sent you a PM apologizing. Your choose to not accept it and thats your right obviously.

As to the subject, a 2002, which is a 12 year old car, that has never had its brake fluid flushed can and occasionally do suffer contamination build-up in the brakelines and that contamination collects at the furthest distance from the master cylinder--the calipers (or wheel cylinders on a drum brake). That is the subject--12 year old brake fluid, not what constitutes a classic car. Honda recommends brake fluid be changed every 36 months so not hard to figure out what condition 12 year old brake fluid is in.

That is something I have personally experienced so you cannot deny it. All you can say is you have not experienced that and I will surely take you at your word because you obviously have mechanical experience and I take people at their word.

I do not wish to get into some kind of TV vendetta so I will not be responding to you or your posts any longer but I will continue to read them because they are knowledgable.

Caveat: In addition to turning a wrench on Hondas up to model year 2009, I own a 2004 Honda CR-V.

Cheers

Edited June 16, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Lickey]

CQ, Pull the suction pipe out of the brake servo, tape the end over, and go for a steady drive, does it feel better? if so, the diaphram in the servo is contaminated and needs replacing, a weak diaphram will make the brakes grab,,

[Ace of Pop]

That sums it up Lickey., the Rubber/Neoprene gives out after a while.Take the pipe of and it doesn't,just have to stand hard on the pedal.Ford Cargo Trucks were lethal when cold years ago..