Curious, does anyone think it is possible to have a successful relationship with someone who is not of their same educational background and economic status, let alone "class"? The reason I ask is I live on an island. I am very attracted to Thai men, but the majority of them here are either married already or they are just island boys- working in bars, restaurants, on boats, etc. These boys generally have nothing and look to farangs to provide their security.

There are no potential boyfriends in my future right now, but chances are if one appears he will be a Thai man of lower education and economic status than I am.... I already had one boyfriend like this and it was a disaster- he milked me for everything I was worth and then took off. Will it always be that way with guys like this? Cultural differences in general are bad enough. Has anyone managed to have a successful and non-superficial relationship with someone of a lower class? Should I stick to farang men?

Comments?

Thanks

It's a really difficult one to answer as you ARE in a very isolated area geographically & therefore have a limited amount of contact with potential bf's. The idea of class as well is a hard thing to define. Having no education doesn't mean that the person will be a scammer or rip you off or even low class, class isn't about money IMO, manners, attitude & ethics are all a factor.

I know this is a subject covered before & we have often disagreed but I will advise this, a good man with no education/ money will be able to learn & still be a good man but an ###### with a good education & money will still be an ######.

I would also advise that a more vigorous vetting process might be needed when meeting new men.

When I was single, my thai friends would often be used to provide an opinion on any guy I was considering. This was because they would be able to know what was said in thai & also the way things were said. My thai male friends would often no-no a guy as they weren't polite enough or seemed dodgy (n.b. you have to trust your friends judgement implicitly)

Hi GirlX Interesting question.

I suppose I'm in the kind of relationship you mean if we are judging it by level of education. My husband left school at 16 and I'm university educated. His family were probably similar to mine in some ways. 2 out of 5 siblings went to Uni, notably the 2 youngest siblings.

We've been together nearly 10 years, married for 7 and have 2 kids. Lived in Samet and BKK for 3 of those years and in the UK for the rest of the time.

It depends on what your expectations are I guess. I personally believe that I am not going to find all the qualities I ideally want in a person in just 1 man (or anyone for that matter). I just don't believe that anybody can be that perfect. I used to think that way and found myself constantly let down by people.

Some people may describe this as having low or reduced expectations and maybe that's true, personally for me it's realistic. Not saying it would work for everyone.

I can't deny it I do sometimes miss the level of conversation I had with farang men, not meaning my husband and I don't talk, but it is different! My husband is very funny though and makes me laugh all the time. We have a lot of banter, talk about our dreams for the future, our kids etc

It's not superficial but yes it is different to relationships I had with farang men. In some ways this is a disadvantage but in other ways it's better. I find that this relationship is somehow more effortless, less complicated. We just get on with things.

When we lived in Thailand I worked and he didn't which obviously raised a lot of eyebrows that he was only interested in me financially etc

I've mentioned this before, our 2nd child was diagnosed with a severe disability in 2002. I was desperate to stay at home with him although I had previously been the bread winner. My husband worked 2 jobs for nearly 5 years one of which was particularly S****y so I could do so.

So he has definitely proved our critics wrong. It just sometimes makes sense for the woman to be the breadwinner. I have 3 female friends in farang relationships here in the UK and they are all the main earners. It seems to be less unusual these days.

Statistically my relationship should have broken up when you throw in all the things going against it! It hasn't been easy, at times i'm sure either of us could have bailed out but that's normal in any long term relationship.

Sorry I have rambled on

Hope you get to meet a good guy soon, Thai or farang. It isn't easy and I had to take a huge leap of faith when I got involved with my husband. There are good Thai guys out there though. Good Luck

Edited June 22, 200620 yr by Jasmine

I would also advise that a more vigorous vetting process might be needed when meeting new men.

When I was single, my thai friends would often be used to provide an opinion on any guy I was considering. This was because they would be able to know what was said in thai & also the way things were said. My thai male friends would often no-no a guy as they weren't polite enough or seemed dodgy (n.b. you have to trust your friends judgement implicitly)

I'd agree with this. In one of the schools I taught in the female Thai teachers would define good men as ones that liked to stay at home, if they "chawp tiaow" then they seemed to be no good!

Here in the UK my partner has worked with Thai women in restaurants. On several occasions I've had them take my hand and say "your husband is a good man."

I think what this would translate to in English, is like a family man

a good man with no education/ money will be able to learn & still be a good man but an ###### with a good education & money will still be an ######.

ha- so true. the one single guy in my village with money, education, a good family, and good looks just beat the crap out of his (farang) girlfriend and has therefore lost her... whereas there are a couple of guys here who are very much on the lower end of the economic scale who are actually supporting their farang girlfriends here and seem to be pretty loyal so far. i guess it depends on the person, but i would still have a hard time with believing that a thai guy here would be with me for anything other than the financial security i could give him. i didn't have much better luck in farangland either though, just different problems, not less of them.

oh, p.s. boo, what does "vetting" mean?

Edited June 22, 200620 yr by girlx

Vetting i.e. screening process. I view this as lots of dates with no sexy business, going out in a group. daytime dates & actually going somewhere that doesn't involve drinking or load music Lots of questions & getting to know each other. Getting friends to giveopinions & get to know him too.

One of the things I noticed living on samui was how quickly the farang girls would hook up with a guy they hardly knew. Moving in together & being a "couple" after a few weeks. I admit to doing it to (not the living together but still). I knew hubby for 6 months before getitng together & admit we moved in fairly quickly after that but the 6 mnths was a good vetting period & I kind of knew he was a keeper.

ah good point... i moved in pretty quickly with my ex and yes it was a mistake but he was a rebound guy too so i just should have known better all around.

Should I stick to farang men?

Comments?

Thanks

In the light of your other thread, yes I think you probably should. You seem to have seen too many bad Thai-Farang relationships

Even if you did meet a good Thai guy you would probably find it hard to trust him or believe that he wasn't out to rip you off in some way.

Best of Luck

It is entirely possible to have a successful relationship with a person not of the same education or economic status. My wife and I are proof of that as well as the hundreds of other farang married to Thai ladies.

But, I believe, it is different when it is the man who is economically or educationally disadvantaged when compared to the woman. So, it isn't really, I think, a valid comparison. Most of the (decent) men I know (thai and farang) have a very deeply ingrained belief that it is the man's job to take care of the woman -- old fashioned but still, I think deeply held. I know my father was deeply depressed when he lost his job and had to live on my mother's earnings.

My husband's family is far wealthier than my own altho I do have a Uni degree and he doesn't. However, my husband is intelligent and motivated to learn simply for the sake of learning so I feel there is no disparity involved.

Personally, I think it helps if the people involved in the relationship feel equal, at least, its easier for the guy (assuming the guy isn't after a free lunch, that is).

I think you probably should. You seem to have seen too many bad Thai-Farang relationships

true but for what it's worth i have seen a lot of bad farang-farang relationships too.

Agree with the advice re going slower and checking out the guy thoroughly first.

It's important to feel comfortable with yourself and with being single, I sort of get the impression that you feel some urgency about getting into a relationship and that can lead to mistakes in judgement, also guys pick up on that easily and the wrong types will play on it. Don't get into relationships just for the sake of being in one,and if you feel uncomfortable or that it is a failure of some kind to be alone, work on that until you are secure and comfortable with it. Then you'll approach potential relationships from the standpoint of "Why?"rather than "Why not?"and be better able to weight the pros and cons.

I don't think socioec differences need to be a deal breaker, but you do need to clearly identify what traits are most important for you and look carfeully for those.

From my point of view the negative traits that are found more often (but by no means exclusively) in "lower class"guys are 1) lower intelligence; 2) being very materialistic/excessively interested in material things, and 3) being not well read, well informed.

However these are not true of all "lower class"men. Especially in Thailand where there is less chance ofr upward mobility, some lower class guys are quite intelligent. And anyone who is intelligent can become well read and well informed without a university degree. As for the materialism -- that also varies and there are plenty of higher class guys just as bad in that regard.

Look at the brains and the heart, not the class per se.

Look at the brains and the heart, not the class per se.

Good post and excellent conclusion!

Also agree fully with the vetting process. Always, always check how the guy is regarded by the community in general. You can pick up signs quite easily if you're observant.

If he's living away from home, be doubly careful, especially in tourist areas - a lot of guys flock to these places precisely to pick up as many farang girls and as much money as they can, especially as they don't have anyone from home watching them.

Sounds like a lot of the 'local' boys you've been hanging out with may not really be local (to your island) at all...

I think it is possible to have a successful relationship, however in some cases there is likely to be more 'problems' or differences than in a relationship where the two people come from the same country. Obviously, lots of these problems will stem from cultural and language differences but if you really like the person, then you'll work through them. If you can't get past these problems/differences, then it probably wasn't meant to be anyhow.

It's hard to figure out the class aspect. In the grand scheme of things in Thailand, then I guess my b/f comes from a lower social class in that he grew up in a wooden stilt house in a village 'til he was 10 and moved to Samui. His mum's a maid and his Dad's a driver, so I guess that means he is 'lower class'. However, it's very clear that his parents brought him and his siblings up well with high morals and they certainly don't act in the way that I guess some people percieve lower class people to be. When we got together he was studying and has a diploma from an international college in Bangkok so we have similar levels of education, but as far as money goes, I earn at least 10 times more than he has ever been able to earn per month. I would say the money issue has been the single biggest issue in our relationship that seems to resurface a couple of times a year. He finds it really difficult to accept that I'm the main income earner and wishes he could earn and provide more.

Actually ... as it turns out, he's making steps to try and earn more ... awhile ago I posted in a thread that he was looking at jobs overseas for better money/experience ... well he left this afternoon to move to Dubai! It's going to be very strange without him around but at least we (me and our toddler) will see him when we visit in October and in the meantime we will have almost 2 months back in NZ to take our minds off of it.

But, I believe, it is different when it is the man who is economically or educationally disadvantaged when compared to the woman. So, it isn't really, I think, a valid comparison. Most of the (decent) men I know (thai and farang) have a very deeply ingrained belief that it is the man's job to take care of the woman -- old fashioned but still, I think deeply held. I know my father was deeply depressed when he lost his job and had to live on my mother's earnings.

So what you're saying is that it's easier for men being the one with the money and getting with a Thai lady instead of a woman being the one with the money and getting a Thai man? Can you elaborate for me, please?

But, I believe, it is different when it is the man who is economically or educationally disadvantaged when compared to the woman. So, it isn't really, I think, a valid comparison. Most of the (decent) men I know (thai and farang) have a very deeply ingrained belief that it is the man's job to take care of the woman -- old fashioned but still, I think deeply held. I know my father was deeply depressed when he lost his job and had to live on my mother's earnings.

So what you're saying is that it's easier for men being the one with the money and getting with a Thai lady instead of a woman being the one with the money and getting a Thai man? Can you elaborate for me, please?

reread sylvafern's post carefully:

When we got together he was studying and has a diploma from an international college in Bangkok so we have similar levels of education, but as far as money goes, I earn at least 10 times more than he has ever been able to earn per month. I would say the money issue has been the single biggest issue in our relationship that seems to resurface a couple of times a year. He finds it really difficult to accept that I'm the main income earner and wishes he could earn and provide more.

I think that it is true for most men with a more traditional upbringing, either farang or Thai. I think a man with strong traditional cultural values will find it difficult to live off his wife's earnings. I don't think the difficulty lies in "getting the thai man" but in keeping the relationship healthy and on an equal footing when the wife earns far more than the husband. Not saying its impossible and not all men who earn less than their wives are sponging off their wives but I think the relationship has a less difficult time if the man can feel on an equal footing with his wife (and I reiterate, I believe this is true in the West as well).

I hate to admit it but in the interest of not seeing you make the same mistakes I have in the past… I was married, three times in fact to your typical white American beauty queens armed with nothing but a high school diploma and a tube of lipstick. To make a long story short I don’t know what the hel_l I was thinking it didn’t even almost work. Now by the grace of what ever deity you believe in I am married to an educated Thai woman (my own age) and life has been good to us we had our 11th year anniversary on the 17th and have still not had our first argument as we have the level of intelligence to discuss potential problems before they occur and keep peace and happiness in our relationship.

Best wishes and good luck

I sort of get the impression that you feel some urgency about getting into a relationship and that can lead to mistakes in judgement, also guys pick up on that easily and the wrong types will play on it. Don't get into relationships just for the sake of being in one,and if you feel uncomfortable or that it is a failure of some kind to be alone, work on that until you are secure and comfortable with it.

nah not in the least, don't misunderstand me- i have plenty of opportunities to hook up if i want them, and some of them are really nice guys. i have the opposite problem, in fact- i am totally averse to another relationship... i really am loving my space, my life, the chance to be single. this is the first time things are exactly how i like them, so i am happy enough with a little 'kik' for now. ... but i am very analytical so of course i look around me and see tons of failing relationships whether because of cultural differences or class or just the fact that one or the other person is an ######, and wonder if anyone actually succeeds with such odds against them! and like i said, i am very attracted to thai men so if someone does manage to make me lose my head he will most likely be thai.

i guess the biggest thing with the money issue to me is, the man might not want to live off the woman, and he might insist on working and paying at least part of his way. but if for instance, the woman is making 10 times more than him, then she would be able to work less hours, take more holidays, eat at nicer places, go shopping, that sort of thing. so why would the man continue working 12 hours a day for 6000b per month? he wouldn't have time or money to spend with the woman! and wouldn't the woman want to take the man on holiday with her and go out to nice dinners etc.? eventually there has to be some sort of balance struck, but does that mean the partner with the most money should agree that they are the breadwinner and just be cool with that? i have always had very 50/50 relationships in america, where both sides paid their own way. i found it really hard in my last relatonship to be cool with someone living off of me. i don't really see how it could work, but i see people trying all over the place!

Another problem that can occur if the woman is the breadwinner is when you have kids.

I was into my career, and always thought after having a baby I'd happily go back to work. Wasn't expecting to experience the maternal pull so strong.

Doesn't hit every woman in the same way, some of my mates couldn't wait to get back to work after having kids but if it gets you and you're the breadwinner it can be tough financially and emotionally

Edited June 25, 200620 yr by Jasmine

I think that it is true for most men with a more traditional upbringing, either farang or Thai. I think a man with strong traditional cultural values will find it difficult to live off his wife's earnings. I don't think the difficulty lies in "getting the thai man" but in keeping the relationship healthy and on an equal footing when the wife earns far more than the husband. Not saying its impossible and not all men who earn less than their wives are sponging off their wives but I think the relationship has a less difficult time if the man can feel on an equal footing with his wife (and I reiterate, I believe this is true in the West as well).

Ok I re-read the post. So what she is saying is that the Thai man might see it as some sort of blemish on his manhood for the woman to be earning the most money.

This leads me to another question then. For the ladies, if you met a Thai man and fell in love with him but he had no real money to speak of, would you have a problem taking care of the man and being the breadwinner for the household?

I think that it is true for most men with a more traditional upbringing, either farang or Thai. I think a man with strong traditional cultural values will find it difficult to live off his wife's earnings. I don't think the difficulty lies in "getting the thai man" but in keeping the relationship healthy and on an equal footing when the wife earns far more than the husband. Not saying its impossible and not all men who earn less than their wives are sponging off their wives but I think the relationship has a less difficult time if the man can feel on an equal footing with his wife (and I reiterate, I believe this is true in the West as well).

Ok I re-read the post. So what she is saying is that the Thai man might see it as some sort of blemish on his manhood for the woman to be earning the most money.

This leads me to another question then. For the ladies, if you met a Thai man and fell in love with him but he had no real money to speak of, would you have a problem taking care of the man and being the breadwinner for the household?

YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not just a Thai man - but (after spending a few of my lucrative 'earning' years in Thailand - YES! I have a problem with that!)

Seems to me - is too easy for men to sit back and accept "equality" in earning power without matching the effort. Challenge me!

One of my closest and dearest friends is very happilt married, in the US, to an American man who earns virtually nothing while she has a good income. Neither of them have any problem with it and both feel that, love aside, they are both better off in a material sense than they would be apart. Because he is not sitting around being a "kept"man -- he's running all the errands -- with a keen eye towards bargains and ways to cut costs -- making what would otherwise be costly home repairs and improvements himself, changing the oil, making car repairs (and making sure the repair shop charges fairly for what he can't do), keeping the books & paying the bills (in terms of reviewing them, writing the checks etc) , spending hours on hold straightening out overcharges etc, picking up the dry cleaning -- in short taking a big load off her shoulders that she'd have to manage along with work if single. I stay with them every time I'm in the US and have seen for myself how busy he is and how much effort he puts into keeping the household within budget. He also manages all their investments and does it very well, thereby contributing to their joint income.

A lot depends on how one looks at it. If only the tasks that directly earn money are valued, then there is certainly going to be resentment on one side and (if he's a decent guy) shame on the other with an arrangement like this. But if one assigns equal value to things that need to be done (and which you'd otherwise have to pay a fair amount to someone else to do) in order for the family or couple to live comfortably, then there's no problem at all...the tasks are just divided according to each spouse's area of comparative advantage.