CM Fuzz - Let Us Prey

[FolkGuitar]

My not wearing a seatbelt, parking in the right place but facing the wrong direction, or not having a photocopied piece of paper in my car has no bearing whatsoever on your life, or anybody else's life.

You're correct. It doesn't really make that much impact other than a miniscule financial one only important to the bean counters. Certainly not enough to matter to most folks.

Why should you try to deny me that choice by throwing out this 'follow the rules' stuff??

I don't see anyone trying to deny you the choice. I see people, myself included, saying that following the rules makes our lives a lot simpler. Nothing more. You are always free to break what ever rules you wish to. But if you get dinged for breaking them, and get upset about that happening, and don't do 'something' to prevent being upset again and again... well... if it were me, I'd ask myself 'why,' why do I continue to put myself in that situation?

Obviously 'some' vheicular rules have been made for the protection and safety of others, such as not driving on sidewalks or driving while intoxicated, and it's simply selfish to break these, endangering others for our own convenience. But others, such as helmet laws, seatbelt laws, document requirements, etc., are basically bureaurocratic and often offensive. However, they are laws on the books. We have the choice to obey them or break them... and deal with the attendant results. No one is forcing you. You always have the choice.

[masuk]

Too many posters here don't seem to realise that the changes in rules and regulations in Thailand have very little to do with what westerners want. The Thai authorities are merely reaching the same conclusions that other countries, East and West, have made, whether I , you or anyone else here wants it or not. Whether we stay or go won't make any difference. I would imagine that those people who either favour the rules, or just accept them, are more likely to stay, so to see if the Thai authorities do indeed care what we think, let's see what happens when the westerners that don't like the changes leave.

Just to check if they are listening to us, we could all come on Thaivisa and complain about the necessity of making 90 day reports to immigration and see where that leads. I'll get the ball rolling........

Why do we need to make reports to immigration every 90 days? It's a waste of time, it serves no purpose and sometimes involves me missing a set or two of tennis. Scrap it now please.

Angry of Tunbridge Wells (best not to use my real name)

Great post. Up until you mistakenly said you had to report every 90 days. You can do it every 76 days if you like.

Aha! that Tunbridge Wells guy has arisen! Takes me back to the BBC comedies on the steam radio.

I agree we should grumble more about the 90 days malarky. Imagine the fuss if all Thais had to do this in Western countries.

[CMHomeboy78]

My first experience with extortion masquerading as law-enforcement came as a child in the 1950s travelling with my family from New England to Florida.

In those days, before the Interstate highway system was completed, main roads south passed through or near little towns in the Carolinas and Georgia.

The redneck sheriffs in many of those places would set up speed-traps with absurdly low limits - often 30 MPH.

The potential for "revenue enhancement" soon became obvious, and the deplorable practice quickly spread to other states. The introduction of seatbelt and motorcycle helmet laws in the '60s really got the gravy-train rolling.

This is one of the many things I was glad to leave behind long ago.

Now it has come to Chiang Mai along with the kind of people who so willingly bend over backward to justify it.

[FolkGuitar]

...........(SNIP for Brevity)......... Now it has come to Chiang Mai along with the kind of people who so willingly bend over backward to justify it.

Could you be so kind as to link to a post that tries to justify it?

Frankly, I haven't been able to find one. I see several that say 'learn to live with it,' several that say 'I'm not going to comply. I'd rather break the law and then whinge about it when I get caught,' but none that say it's right, it's OK, or that it's even needed. Please, which one is the justification post?

[femi fan]

Why is it when i pop to 7/11 and come back drinking a beer and driving on the pavement or against the traffic, the only askance looks i get are from farangs..........

Thai people could not care less and many times I have passed cops when driving like this.

How could that be ?

Bearing in mind this is a place for opinions and therefore disagreement will always be there, this post comes so close to being a hand of 4 Aces in poker. I don't believe, within the context of the thread title and OP, that anybody can beat this hand!

Absoluetely touche.

Follow the laws. Such a stupid mantra anywhere in the world if the laws are an ass. But in thailand it's an even stupider mantra considering so many of the local people just ignore a law when it's a nuisance. Many of us farang love thailand for this.

Just follow the laws, don't complain, do more work, have less play, don't be middle-class. There's a great book out called How to be Idle, or something like that. The author comes up with two kinds of people in life: the idlers and the botherers. The latter cannot abide the idlers and spend their entire lives trying to stop the idler people being 'lazy'.

These threads seem to have their fair share of these 'botherers'. I mean, they don't even want you to be here complaining if you want to be complaining; nothing better to do they say. And when you complain about the decimation of elephants or whales or tigers, then you become a middle-class citizen with too much luxury and not enough work time. Stop complaining, let the murder continue. And don't let a man complain about having to wear a seatbelt due to a ridiculous man-made law made by botherers.

Mad.

[northernjohn]

i honestly can't believe people are complaining about having to have a driver's license, insurance, wearing a seat belt or a helmet and keeping a copy of the book in the glove box. those are the rules. driving is a privilege. unlicensed, uninsured drivers are a danger to society. follow the rules and you won't have to pay a fine. simple. just like in any other country. what's the big deal? 3 pages? i don't get it.

Follow the rules mantra again.

Idiocy.

My not wearing a seatbelt, parking in the right place but facing the wrong direction, or not having a photocopied piece of paper in my car has no bearing whatsoever on your life, or anybody else's life.

Furthermore, i want the choice to wear my seatbelt or not, to wear a helmet or not.

Why should you try to deny me that choice by throwing out this 'follow the rules' stuff??

Maybe you don't get it because it's not a problem to you. I bet you have some problems with life that i don't, and they would look strange to me?

We are all faced with the same rules as you.

Why is it a problem to you and not most of us?

I realize it is a problem if you don't have the papers or your sear belt is unfastened. Or no drivers license or helmet on.

Come to think of it if you were injured in an accident and not wearing seat belts would your insurance cover your medical?

[northernjohn]

Why is it when i pop to 7/11 and come back drinking a beer and driving on the pavement or against the traffic, the only askance looks i get are from farangs..........

Thai people could not care less and many times I have passed cops when driving like this.

How could that be ?

Bearing in mind this is a place for opinions and therefore disagreement will always be there, this post comes so close to being a hand of 4 Aces in poker. I don't believe, within the context of the thread title and OP, that anybody can beat this hand!

Absoluetely touche.

Follow the laws. Such a stupid mantra anywhere in the world if the laws are an ass. But in thailand it's an even stupider mantra considering so many of the local people just ignore a law when it's a nuisance. Many of us farang love thailand for this.

Just follow the laws, don't complain, do more work, have less play, don't be middle-class. There's a great book out called How to be Idle, or something like that. The author comes up with two kinds of people in life: the idlers and the botherers. The latter cannot abide the idlers and spend their entire lives trying to stop the idler people being 'lazy'.

These threads seem to have their fair share of these 'botherers'. I mean, they don't even want you to be here complaining if you want to be complaining; nothing better to do they say. And when you complain about the decimation of elephants or whales or tigers, then you become a middle-class citizen with too much luxury and not enough work time. Stop complaining, let the murder continue. And don't let a man complain about having to wear a seatbelt due to a ridiculous man-made law made by botherers.

Mad.

Well I have to agree with part of your post.

"But in Thailand it's an even stupider mantra considering so many of the local people just ignore a law when it's a nuisance. Many of us farang love thailand for this."

That is one of the reasons I like it here in Thailand.

But I do not use the Thai's do it so I will as an excuse to do stupid things.

the wife will do stupid things and say I Thai. I tell her in English that is not an excuse to be stupid.

I don't dare say it in Thai That would be stupid of me.

[jjczap]

in the US I would probably be classified as a Libertarian - belief in limited Gov , individual freedom, accountability for one's actions , basically knock yourself out as long as you don't effect the lives of the people around you - sooo if you chose not to wear a helmet , no seatbelt , no medical ins , no car/cycle ins , driving the wrong way ECT do you also expect someone to pick you broken body off the road and take care of you??!!

[femi fan]

We are all faced with the same rules as you.

Why is it a problem to you and not most of us?

I realize it is a problem if you don't have the papers or your sear belt is unfastened. Or no drivers license or helmet on.

Come to think of it if you were injured in an accident and not wearing seat belts would your insurance cover your medical?

We are not, however, all the same! I hate wearing my seatbelt and hated it equally before i moved to thailand. There is also a real sense of freedom riding around country roads on a motorbike with the wind flowing through the hair. I will wear a helmet around town because i don't want a cracked head if i come off, but if i'm out of town with little traffic then i won't. Freedom can be dangerous sometimes, but it's a magical feeling.

My aunt had a car crash many many years ago in england. She was not wearing a seatbelt. I can't remember the details, but she went through the windscreen and survived rather nicely; had she not been wearing one, she would have been dead. It is not guaranteed that a seatbelt will be the safer option.

But the real point is, why should the state mandate me to wear a seatbelt? It is MY choice! Why should they take my hard-earned money for not following their dictatorial rules? Of course, they don't, i wear the belt whenever i think i'm coming near a checkpoint. At least in orwellian britain they would not fine me, they would just wave me on my way. Mind, that was two decades ago, not sure what they would do now.

[femi fan]

Well I have to agree with part of your post.

"But in Thailand it's an even stupider mantra considering so many of the local people just ignore a law when it's a nuisance. Many of us farang love thailand for this."

That is one of the reasons I like it here in Thailand.

But I do not use the Thai's do it so I will as an excuse to do stupid things.

the wife will do stupid things and say I Thai. I tell her in English that is not an excuse to be stupid.

I don't dare say it in Thai That would be stupid of me.

Nor do i use that as any excuse. I take full responsibility for my own life, including whether i wear a belt or not. When i have to wear one, i manage to accept this intrusion into my life by seeing the whole thing as a game. Then i'm okay!

But one of the reasons for me being on this thread is seeing that idiotic mantra where farangs tell other farangs to 'follow the law and everything will be alright'. I used to hear this garbage in britain when i lived there. Since i left, and during one prime minister's rule (blair) the government passed 10,000 new laws, which was about three per day every day for a decade or so. How does one keep inside the law eh??!!!

State madness. It's a citizen's birthright to break any law he or she sees fit so long as no harm is caused to other people. Indirectly this is even enshrined in the UN declaration of human rights. I stand up for my rights wherever possible.

[femi fan]

and, northernjohn, you asked me why it was a problem for me, but not most of you...

i) nothing wrong with being in a minority, that's freedom for you

ii) how have you managed to work out that you're even in the majority of farang road-users in chiang mai?

[femi fan]

in the US I would probably be classified as a Libertarian - belief in limited Gov , individual freedom, accountability for one's actions , basically knock yourself out as long as you don't effect the lives of the people around you - sooo if you chose not to wear a helmet , no seatbelt , no medical ins , no car/cycle ins , driving the wrong way ECT do you also expect someone to pick you broken body off the road and take care of you??!!

I'm not sure from your post which side you are on, but...

cigarette smokers?

sugar eaters?

drug takers?

booze drinkers?

prescribed pill takers?

There's plenty of ways to get your body broken or done in whereby you will need help.

[jjczap]

Femi Fan I enjoy your sense of freedom and enjoyment - you sound like a libertarian - but do you expect everyone else to pick up your broken body and pay if something happens??!!

[jjczap]

in the US I would probably be classified as a Libertarian - belief in limited Gov , individual freedom, accountability for one's actions , basically knock yourself out as long as you don't effect the lives of the people around you - sooo if you chose not to wear a helmet , no seatbelt , no medical ins , no car/cycle ins , driving the wrong way ECT do you also expect someone to pick you broken body off the road and take care of you??!!

I'm not sure from your post which side you are on, but...

cigarette smokers?

sugar eaters?

drug takers?

booze drinkers?

prescribed pill takers?

There's plenty of ways to get your body broken or done in whereby you will need help.

I guess you don't get the point - so do you expect society to pick up the costs of your personal decisions of your actions ? I want to be free but when the s--t hits the fan please every one take care of me !! this is the point of the Libertarian YOU are responsible for your own actions - sure people at some point will need help to get out of the hole but if you don't step up to the plate to take responsibility for your own actions to move forward - your problem pal

[femi fan]

Femi Fan I enjoy your sense of freedom and enjoyment - you sound like a libertarian - but do you expect everyone else to pick up your broken body and pay if something happens??!!

No, i don't expect anything. But i help out wherever and whenever i can in life, and i will leave it to the law of karma as to whether anybody will help me in my own time of need!

So far, in 32 years of driving, touch wood, nobody's had to pick up my body, broken or otherwise.

But look, humans have devised many many ways of poisoning and damaging themselves, and yet we all live together somehow. We have to help each other, even when we often can't help ourselves.

I'm not a libertarian, if i'm any kind of _ian or _ist, file me under the anarchist label. But i'm not even one of those really, but we do like labels…! Abiding by the UN declaration of human rights, allied with the mantra 'cause no harm' will do it for me. If i see the state, through its operatives and agents, causing harm to the citizens i do whatever i can to redress that harm. Usually that's very little without getting myself jailed or bumped off, but we do what little we can eh!!

[femi fan]

I guess you don't get the point - so do you expect society to pick up the costs of your personal decisions of your actions ? I want to be free but when the s--t hits the fan please every one take care of me !! this is the point of the Libertarian YOU are responsible for your own actions - sure people at some point will need help to get out of the hole but if you don't step up to the plate to take responsibility for your own actions to move forward - your problem pal

Oh dear! You've confused what i'm saying on a thread with who i am as a person.

Just to clear things up. I don't expect anybody to do anything for me. I take full responsibility for my own life and decisions which in my experience and understanding is the best way to enjoying freedom in life. I try to control no-one, and i try not to be controlled by anyone else. It's much easier to do the latter, but with skill one can learn the former and undo all their formative years of conditioning.

If i do get a broken bone while driving about the i leave it to karma as to whether i've done enough good to get some come back to me. I am not a monk or a saint or anybody perfect, but we are all humans and we are all in it together, and people do silly things, but there's always someone to help. You don't need to, you can sit on the sidelines shaking your head and wagging your finger at femi fan who has broken himself by not wearing a seatbelt and should therefore not be helped!!

I listed lots of other ways people do things to themselves which then lead onto them needing the help of others. Self-harm leading to the need for others to pick up the tab when the s..t hits the fan as you say. That's us humans.

[Oscar2]

i honestly can't believe people are complaining about having to have a driver's license, insurance, wearing a seat belt or a helmet and keeping a copy of the book in the glove box. those are the rules. driving is a privilege. unlicensed, uninsured drivers are a danger to society. follow the rules and you won't have to pay a fine. simple. just like in any other country. what's the big deal? 3 pages? i don't get it.

Follow the rules mantra again.

Idiocy.

My not wearing a seatbelt, parking in the right place but facing the wrong direction, or not having a photocopied piece of paper in my car has no bearing whatsoever on your life, or anybody else's life.

Furthermore, i want the choice to wear my seatbelt or not, to wear a helmet or not.

Why should you try to deny me that choice by throwing out this 'follow the rules' stuff??

Maybe you don't get it because it's not a problem to you. I bet you have some problems with life that i don't, and they would look strange to me?

your fantasy of living in a society without rules will not work in modern civilization. there would be complete chaos and mayhem. people would be armed with guns, etc. i'm not sure where you came from but there are rules in Europe, America, Canada, Australia, Japan, etc. it's not so difficult to follow some simple rules here and/or abide by the laws. the most that can happen here is that you are fined a small amount of money if YOU CHOOSE to break the law. in some of the other countries mentioned, failure to follow the rules or breaking the law will result in large fines, loss of driving license, jail time, or even assault by law enforcement officers. you are obviously an intelligent guy but have a real chip on your shoulder about following the rules.

i'm not denying you the choice of anything. i'm certainly not making any rules. and FYI i absolutely hate the police in some countries...like America. but i still follow the rules.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Oscar2

[femi fan]

oscar 2

I don't have the fantasy you describe.

I'm talking about seatbelts and helmets and parking in the right place facing the wrong way. Absolute chaos!!

[limegreenpatato]

Are you serious? Every since the army backed off over the last 2 weeks. There have been at least triple the normal amount. They are on the North side of the moat daily in the afternoon and almost daily in the morning, which in the last 5 years i have never seen.

They are at the south west corner of the moat almost daily. They are at the inside corner too a few times a week.

They are in front of the old stadium near Rajabaht uni. FIrst time i've seen them there. Granted i don't usually go that way.

That's just the ones i see daily. I see them in other places too quite frequently

[northernjohn]

Too many posters here don't seem to realise that the changes in rules and regulations in Thailand have very little to do with what westerners want. The Thai authorities are merely reaching the same conclusions that other countries, East and West, have made, whether I , you or anyone else here wants it or not. Whether we stay or go won't make any difference. I would imagine that those people who either favour the rules, or just accept them, are more likely to stay, so to see if the Thai authorities do indeed care what we think, let's see what happens when the westerners that don't like the changes leave.

Just to check if they are listening to us, we could all come on Thaivisa and complain about the necessity of making 90 day reports to immigration and see where that leads. I'll get the ball rolling........

Why do we need to make reports to immigration every 90 days? It's a waste of time, it serves no purpose and sometimes involves me missing a set or two of tennis. Scrap it now please.

Angry of Tunbridge Wells (best not to use my real name)

Great post. Up until you mistakenly said you had to report every 90 days. You can do it every 76 days if you like.

Aha! that Tunbridge Wells guy has arisen! Takes me back to the BBC comedies on the steam radio.

I agree we should grumble more about the 90 days malarky. Imagine the fuss if all Thais had to do this in Western countries.

To be honest with you if it was as easy to take my wife back to the States as it is for me to come here she would welcome it. Unfortunately it is not that easy to take her back there.

It is in my opinion a stupid thing I think they had a valid reason if they were connected by internet and just used the bar codes it would help them keep track of where people are. Not that I see much sense in that any how but it would be at least a feeble excuse.

If they did that they could actually fix it so you could do your 90 day at the 7/11.

The wonderful world of if.

Thanks for the complement on 76 days. I was also thinking 97 days but I never was good at choices.

Except for calling Thailand home that was a perfect one for me.

Not sure about others from the tone of their posts.

[northernjohn]

We are all faced with the same rules as you.

Why is it a problem to you and not most of us?

I realize it is a problem if you don't have the papers or your sear belt is unfastened. Or no drivers license or helmet on.

Come to think of it if you were injured in an accident and not wearing seat belts would your insurance cover your medical?

We are not, however, all the same! I hate wearing my seatbelt and hated it equally before i moved to thailand. There is also a real sense of freedom riding around country roads on a motorbike with the wind flowing through the hair. I will wear a helmet around town because i don't want a cracked head if i come off, but if i'm out of town with little traffic then i won't. Freedom can be dangerous sometimes, but it's a magical feeling.

My aunt had a car crash many many years ago in england. She was not wearing a seatbelt. I can't remember the details, but she went through the windscreen and survived rather nicely; had she not been wearing one, she would have been dead. It is not guaranteed that a seatbelt will be the safer option.

But the real point is, why should the state mandate me to wear a seatbelt? It is MY choice! Why should they take my hard-earned money for not following their dictatorial rules? Of course, they don't, i wear the belt whenever i think i'm coming near a checkpoint. At least in orwellian britain they would not fine me, they would just wave me on my way. Mind, that was two decades ago, not sure what they would do now.

Yes I rolled a station wagon and got thrown out. I went back to the vehicle and laying right where my head would have been if I was buckled in was a transmission I had in the rear end. It is a game of statistics your aunt and I won. I put them on automatically now. It just takes a little getting used to and then you don't notice it if you stop fighting it.

It would be nice to ride with the wind blowing through your hair.

How ever back in Sturgis North Dakota ( I believe that is the correct name) once a year they have a big biker rally people come from all over the United States and probably a lot from Canada for it. I was traveling in Montana where helmets are not necessary. I saw a lot of bikers on their way home and I would venture a guess that 60% of them had helmet's on. Now I am talking about hard core bikers. They don't just take their little 450 for a ride in the country every so often. If they see the wisdom in it and it makes sense to me good enough for me. Mind you their are a lot of places in Montana where you are at least an hour away from a hospital if some one is there to take you.

Edit

I don't know am I?

Makes no difference to me if I am or am not. I am more concerned with my own welfare.

By the way you wouldn't like it in Canada or the States. They are both for the most part Nanny countries.

There are exceptions. I was cruising through Montana at 75 miles per hour when a Montana State Patrolman passed me up like I was standing still.

Edited June 27, 2014 by northernjohn

[true blue]

good topic so nice to see so many rebels on tv,long may they last fighting for the cause of civil disobedience,even though every other citizen is knowingly,or unknowingly doing it.

[northernjohn]

Fed up with the well in a civilized country or where I come from posters.

It is indeed a sad thing to see Thai culture slowly turning into a western culture.

Can never figure out why those whiners bother to stay here.

If people want a nanny country to the best of my understanding their are air flights every day. What is the problem.

Maybe they are not wanted there. Or on the other hand are wanted there.

Because they for sure want what is there here.

It seems like the whiners on this occasion are the people that don't want the new rules. If people really want all these rules, and I very much doubt it, what would they have to whine about if the rules are being introduced? The whiners are the ones that don't want the rules, or their enforcement to be more precise, surely? Unfortunately, I don't fall into either category, I don't want most of the rules, but I can see that they are inevitable, so don't see the point in moaning or finding an imaginary scapegoat - nasty westerners that force the government to change the rules.

Your reactions are totally understandable, and I sympathise, but the reality is that things change, and when you reach a certain age, your tolerance and acceptance of change diminishes. If you're not careful, you become unhappy and end up being a classic miserable old bugger. Most of us don't want to be tied down by rules and regulations, but they will come whether we like it or not and whether Westerners want them or not, or whether Thais want them or not. How you handle that, is your choice.

Like every thing else I do I run against the norm. The older I get the more I enjoy Thailand and it's culture regardless of the law breaking. In a way I kind of enjoy that. I am responsible now if I get hit crossing the street when the light is red no one else. I failed to look and see if it was all clear. I enjoy what we would call jay walking back home it is legal here but even if it was illegal I would still do it. Not excited about trying to walk on the side walks but not complaining I just walk in the street.

As for the nasty westerners forcing them to change the rules. No opinion on that. I am against them trying to change the culture from a family orientated one to a materialistic one.

The point I am stating is if I know it is illegal and I do it and get fined I will not complain. I am totally responsible for myself. I got a package from the states today they charged me 490 baht on $79 of pills I had ordered. This was the first time in 4 shipments I am not complaining about it. I always knew there was the danger of going through customs. This time I am not sure what it was. They said it was a tax. At any rate I am not complaining about it and will order from the same company again when I run out. I take responsibility when I break a law even if it is a stupid one.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Fed up with the well in a civilized country or where I come from posters.

It is indeed a sad thing to see Thai culture slowly turning into a western culture.

Can never figure out why those whiners bother to stay here.

If people want a nanny country to the best of my understanding their are air flights every day. What is the problem.

Maybe they are not wanted there. Or on the other hand are wanted there.

Because they for sure want what is there here.

It seems like the whiners on this occasion are the people that don't want the new rules. If people really want all these rules, and I very much doubt it, what would they have to whine about if the rules are being introduced? The whiners are the ones that don't want the rules, or their enforcement to be more precise, surely? Unfortunately, I don't fall into either category, I don't want most of the rules, but I can see that they are inevitable, so don't see the point in moaning or finding an imaginary scapegoat - nasty westerners that force the government to change the rules.

Your reactions are totally understandable, and I sympathise, but the reality is that things change, and when you reach a certain age, your tolerance and acceptance of change diminishes. If you're not careful, you become unhappy and end up being a classic miserable old bugger. Most of us don't want to be tied down by rules and regulations, but they will come whether we like it or not and whether Westerners want them or not, or whether Thais want them or not. How you handle that, is your choice.

Like every thing else I do I run against the norm. The older I get the more I enjoy Thailand and it's culture regardless of the law breaking. In a way I kind of enjoy that. I am responsible now if I get hit crossing the street when the light is red no one else. I failed to look and see if it was all clear. I enjoy what we would call jay walking back home it is legal here but even if it was illegal I would still do it. Not excited about trying to walk on the side walks but not complaining I just walk in the street.

As for the nasty westerners forcing them to change the rules. No opinion on that. I am against them trying to change the culture from a family orientated one to a materialistic one.

The point I am stating is if I know it is illegal and I do it and get fined I will not complain. I am totally responsible for myself. I got a package from the states today they charged me 490 baht on $79 of pills I had ordered. This was the first time in 4 shipments I am not complaining about it. I always knew there was the danger of going through customs. This time I am not sure what it was. They said it was a tax. At any rate I am not complaining about it and will order from the same company again when I run out. I take responsibility when I break a law even if it is a stupid one.

I agree except "the nasty western foreigners forcing them to change the rules". Who are you referring to? Presumably, you're not referring to expats because I can't think of any instance of them ever listening to us. Were you referring to western governmental pressures, maybe?

[Chiengmaijoe]

good topic so nice to see so many rebels on tv,long may they last fighting for the cause of civil disobedience,even though every other citizen is knowingly,or unknowingly doing it.

I ate a sandwich in public today. With intent.

[Sparkles]

Too many posters here don't seem to realise that the changes in rules and regulations in Thailand have very little to do with what westerners want. The Thai authorities are merely reaching the same conclusions that other countries, East and West, have made, whether I , you or anyone else here wants it or not. Whether we stay or go won't make any difference. I would imagine that those people who either favour the rules, or just accept them, are more likely to stay, so to see if the Thai authorities do indeed care what we think, let's see what happens when the westerners that don't like the changes leave.

Just to check if they are listening to us, we could all come on Thaivisa and complain about the necessity of making 90 day reports to immigration and see where that leads. I'll get the ball rolling........

Why do we need to make reports to immigration every 90 days? It's a waste of time, it serves no purpose and sometimes involves me missing a set or two of tennis. Scrap it now please.

Angry of Tunbridge Wells (best not to use my real name)

Great post. Up until you mistakenly said you had to report every 90 days. You can do it every 76 days if you like.

Aha! that Tunbridge Wells guy has arisen! Takes me back to the BBC comedies on the steam radio.

I agree we should grumble more about the 90 days malarky. Imagine the fuss if all Thais had to do this in Western countries.

If Thais had to do 90 day reporting in western countries you know what would happen they would do it without blinking and not whine about it.

Haven't you noticed how patient they are lining up at a bank or a Government Hospital where they might have to wait all day to see a Doctor.

I have always admired their tolerance to waiting, unlike Westerners, and I admit to be being impatient myself.

[femi fan]

I don't know am I?

Makes no difference to me if I am or am not. I am more concerned with my own welfare.

By the way you wouldn't like it in Canada or the States. They are both for the most part Nanny countries.

There are exceptions. I was cruising through Montana at 75 miles per hour when a Montana State Patrolman passed me up like I was standing still.

No, i would not like the US from what i've read in recent years. I did like it a lot back in the late 80s when i visited, and Canada. But it sounds rather similar to the UK and many of the cooler climate european nations in terms of its nanny outlook on life. I always think england is bad enough, but german friends who spend time in england say that germany is much more controlled and nanny-like!! Amazing.

[femi fan]

good topic so nice to see so many rebels on tv,long may they last fighting for the cause of civil disobedience,even though every other citizen is knowingly,or unknowingly doing it.

I once read to rebel is to keep one's sanity...

Ahh, that most excellent term, 'civil disobedience'. Brings tears of joy to the eyes! Can't do it to much extent in thailand, although not much need. Yet. Changes are in air though. If my life wasn't so good here i'd be back to england in a shot to practise as much civil disobedience as i could. It's needed to stop the rampant rape of our lands by western corporations. Eg fracking, just for one.

Can't do it here, we'd be on the first plane home, or bumped off! But, the trick is to do whatever one can within the context.

[femi fan]

good topic so nice to see so many rebels on tv,long may they last fighting for the cause of civil disobedience,even though every other citizen is knowingly,or unknowingly doing it.

I ate a sandwich in public today. With intent.

Steady on there CMJ… you might get a ticket.

[hml367]

Fed up with the well in a civilized country or where I come from posters.

It is indeed a sad thing to see Thai culture slowly turning into a western culture.

Can never figure out why those whiners bother to stay here.

If people want a nanny country to the best of my understanding their are air flights every day. What is the problem.

Maybe they are not wanted there. Or on the other hand are wanted there.

Because they for sure want what is there here.

It seems like the whiners on this occasion are the people that don't want the new rules. If people really want all these rules, and I very much doubt it, what would they have to whine about if the rules are being introduced? The whiners are the ones that don't want the rules, or their enforcement to be more precise, surely? Unfortunately, I don't fall into either category, I don't want most of the rules, but I can see that they are inevitable, so don't see the point in moaning or finding an imaginary scapegoat - nasty westerners that force the government to change the rules.

Your reactions are totally understandable, and I sympathise, but the reality is that things change, and when you reach a certain age, your tolerance and acceptance of change diminishes. If you're not careful, you become unhappy and end up being a classic miserable old bugger. Most of us don't want to be tied down by rules and regulations, but they will come whether we like it or not and whether Westerners want them or not, or whether Thais want them or not. How you handle that, is your choice.

Like every thing else I do I run against the norm. The older I get the more I enjoy Thailand and it's culture regardless of the law breaking. In a way I kind of enjoy that. I am responsible now if I get hit crossing the street when the light is red no one else. I failed to look and see if it was all clear. I enjoy what we would call jay walking back home it is legal here but even if it was illegal I would still do it. Not excited about trying to walk on the side walks but not complaining I just walk in the street.

As for the nasty westerners forcing them to change the rules. No opinion on that. I am against them trying to change the culture from a family orientated one to a materialistic one.

The point I am stating is if I know it is illegal and I do it and get fined I will not complain. I am totally responsible for myself. I got a package from the states today they charged me 490 baht on $79 of pills I had ordered. This was the first time in 4 shipments I am not complaining about it. I always knew there was the danger of going through customs. This time I am not sure what it was. They said it was a tax. At any rate I am not complaining about it and will order from the same company again when I run out. I take responsibility when I break a law even if it is a stupid one.

HelloJohn,

Where did you get the information that jaywalking is legal here?