US executive who fled to Thailand to avoid paying child support goes to prison

[chuckd]

The US government keeps a listing of Dead Beat Dads and all their embassies have access to these lists.

A few years ago I sent one of my employee's passport to the US Embassy in Riyadh to get some pages added to it. A few days later, I received a phone call from the Embassy telling me the employee had outstanding child support payments in Virginia and they would be holding his passport until the situation was resolved.

They informed me that if he should be required to return to the US to solve his problem, they would provide him with a specific travel document only and would not issue another passport until the courts released the hold.

I called the guy in and told him of the problem. He acknowledged the problem but tried to give me justification for his actions. All I could do was refer him to the contact at the Embassy and tell him to solve the problem through them or go home and solve it.

He solved the problem through the Embassy, using friends in Virginia to pay the arrears directly to the court..

The court released the hold and the Embassy released his passport, with pages added, some six weeks after it all started.

My best guess is this is how the guy in the OP got caught to begin with. He applied for some service at the US Embassy and, when they got their hands on his passport, the game was over.

[capcc76]

How will he keep up with the payments in prison ? Sounds counter productive to me.

First they'll seize all of his assets wherever they are. Sounds like he had a good job.

Then because if they let him loose he's a flight risk, they make an example out of him to others.

If the mother and child have been destitute because of this, they have been receiving cash, housing and food benefits.

The mother and child are living in Utah. Few go hungry in Utah which is the center for Mormons. Mormons are big on food warehousing and providing free or cheap food even for non members. (Not endorsing Mormons.)

Leave judgement to God, clown.

To God? Is that a twisted way to say one has the right to be a degenerate loser and break the law without judgment or consequences because only God can judge.

Haha, I a nut bag in a venire that was positioned in a jury seat early during voir dire in a civil case I was defending. This guy said did not matter what his beliefs or bias may be because only God could judge or punish a wrong doer. Even though I was defendant and would never keep an unpredictable nut bag, though it was tempting, I made plaintiff use one of last strikes to get him off the jury. I remember Plaintiff's counsel looking at me saying, you really going to leave this guy on there. I was like, heck yeah. He won't find against me no matter because that is God's duty to punish not his . . .

[capcc76]

The US government keeps a listing of Dead Beat Dads and all their embassies have access to these lists.

A few years ago I sent one of my employee's passport to the US Embassy in Riyadh to get some pages added to it. A few days later, I received a phone call from the Embassy telling me the employee had outstanding child support payments in Virginia and they would be holding his passport until the situation was resolved.

They informed me that if he should be required to return to the US to solve his problem, they would provide him with a specific travel document only and would not issue another passport until the courts released the hold.

I called the guy in and told him of the problem. He acknowledged the problem but tried to give me justification for his actions. All I could do was refer him to the contact at the Embassy and tell him to solve the problem through them or go home and solve it.

He solved the problem through the Embassy, using friends in Virginia to pay the arrears directly to the court..

The court released the hold and the Embassy released his passport, with pages added, some six weeks after it all started.

My best guess is this is how the guy in the OP got caught to begin with. He applied for some service at the US Embassy and, when they got their hands on his passport, the game was over.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/passport-denial-failure-pay-child-support.html

Even being a U.S. citizen is not, however, enough in some cases. Under a program called Passport Denial, authorized by a 1997 amendment to a law called the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA), any person who owes child support in an amount greater than $2,500 will be denied a U.S. passport until the matter is cleared up. (At one time, the threshold was $5,000, but it was lowered to $2,500 in 2007.)

[Confuscious]

$1500 a month in child support is absurd, especially in 1996. No wonder the poor sod left the country.

Support payments are largely based on the earnings of the two people. If he was hit with $1500 pm he was making very good money.

Child support will often be painful. There's anger toward the ex, and supporting kids is expensive even when married.

But what the adults do isn't the kids' fault, and having a child is one decision that's irreversible.

From 2004 to 2008 everybody at the factory where I was employed was holding a strike against the closure of our factory.

Although many of us wanted to get to work or close the factory and get Welfare money, the Unions were not allowing any of these solutions and were organizing the strikes.

We received no money from the employer because we were on strike, and we received no money from the Union because they rejected the strike.

Many families broke up because of this.

My family also.

At the court, I was sentenced to pay to my ex-wife 250 USD per month for the children although I did not receive a penny from my employer or from the Union.

Trials for child/woman allowance are fair?

Think twice.

My a...

The Western system is a rotten system.

[jimbeam1]

U.S. child support is one of those debts that one can never escape. Child support and student loans are debts that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. The amount of child support is made on formula that uses (1) percentage of custody (2) gross monthly income. So if you make alot of money, your payments will be more than someone who is broke, and yes the monthly child support can be more than what is actually needed.

What bothers me about the system is that it is the state who is getting a cut of it. Local district attorneys have programs to recover child support. The district attorney's office for the county then gets a cut of whatever is recovered. And compound interest is added to what isn't paid. So while you argue that there's some deadbeat dad out there, keep in mind that what is really going on is that the government is making osure it gets its money.

Yes that is how it works in the UK.

It is the biggest violation to the rights of what they call absent parents.

The CSA was formed purely to add to the government coffers. It was never about children. I was caught up in it. Never paid into it (never assessed) never allowed my children to suffer. As was the intention of their mother and the government. I joined an orgination fighting the CAS, you wouldn't believe the horror stories. More than 40 so called absent parents committed suicide in the first few years.

If anyone is really interested, try googling CSA UK.

jb1

[submaniac]

My friend (an intellectual property lawyer, btw, if it matters) had left California for Thailand. He is in his late 50's, went through a nasty divorce in the states (Falang woman, if it matters) and, basically wanted a fresh start. Moved to Thailand to start again. I'm friends with him on Facebook, and was checking out his photos. Every week new photos. It seemed like every week he was with a new (younger) girl, 20-30 years his junior. He had taken up a job teaching English. His reviews by the students at the high school level were great (he was really loved by the students). He got a job teaching at a major university in Thailand. I checked his profile, and saw him posting that he was going home. Now this made no sense to me because it looked like he was really enjoying life. (And let's face facts, living in Thailand and going out with young girls is alot better than living in the states and going out with girls your own age). So I finally spoke to him when he got back, and then he explained it to me. His ex wife had been complaining because, while he was making a good enough living to be in Thailand, it was not enough to pay off his child support and his alimony. His passport was gonna get pulled unless he came back to the states, which he did. Now he works a shit job in the states and dreams of being back in Thailand.

[SanSaiExPat]

Good for them.

"Project Save Our Children is a multi-agency law enforcement initiative that investigates and prosecutes the most egregious child support cases. Its members include investigative analysts from the Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Inspector General, the Administration for Children and Families (ACF) Office of Child Support Enforcement (OCSE), the U.S. Marshals Service, U.S. Attorneys' offices, and the Department of Justice, along with child support agencies across the United States. These entities identify, investigate, and prosecute noncustodial parents who knowingly fail to pay support obligations and meet the criteria for federal prosecution under the Deadbeat Parents Punishment Act. More information about federal child support enforcement is available at http://oig.hhs."

While possibly good intentioned, at one time, and although the name, "Project Save Our Children" sounds wonderfully wholesome and harmless these agencies, DHHS, OCSE, have become nothing more than a tyrannical and abusive long arm of Big Government. These agencies are used, along with the Internal Revenue Service to track and prosecute individuals who in many cases have done nothing more than fled from a court decision or ruling that disenfranchised them from contact with their children and ordered them to pay unjustifiable and confiscatory fees for support of their children after they have been disenfranchised from having contact with them. And what is even more ironic and disturbing as it relates to Thailand there is no reciprocity. If a Thai father or mother kidnaps or refuses to pay support for your Thai/Farang child. Go to the US State Department web site and search on what the US Government will do for you if your child is abducted by your Thai husband or wife. You will find that Thailand is not a party to the Hague Abduction Convention and that there are no US or Thai laws that will help or assist you in finding or recovering your child. For that reason alone I find it incredibly "rich" and misleading in this case where Thai authorities have cooperated with US authorities to apprehend this individual. If it was a Thai national "Project Save Our Children" were looking for there would be no such cooperation by Thai authorities. (Disclaimer: The author of this post has never been involved in a litigious child custody case, does not owe child support and has no personal axe to grind regarding child support.). My only intention for this post is to raise a cautionary flag. All these benevolent sounding government agencies and the "stories" they and their willing accomplices in main stream media propagate around the world are not necessarily what they purport to be. I love my country, I fear my government.

[Nemesis7]

Wonder if such strict child support rule were imposed n Thailand , would here be so many ladies working the bars?! Just wondering......

[SanSaiExPat]

My friend (an intellectual property lawyer, btw, if it matters) had left California for Thailand. He is in his late 50's, went through a nasty divorce in the states (Falang woman, if it matters) and, basically wanted a fresh start. Moved to Thailand to start again. I'm friends with him on Facebook, and was checking out his photos. Every week new photos. It seemed like every week he was with a new (younger) girl, 20-30 years his junior. He had taken up a job teaching English. His reviews by the students at the high school level were great (he was really loved by the students). He got a job teaching at a major university in Thailand. I checked his profile, and saw him posting that he was going home. Now this made no sense to me because it looked like he was really enjoying life. (And let's face facts, living in Thailand and going out with young girls is alot better than living in the states and going out with girls your own age). So I finally spoke to him when he got back, and then he explained it to me. His ex wife had been complaining because, while he was making a good enough living to be in Thailand, it was not enough to pay off his child support and his alimony. His passport was gonna get pulled unless he came back to the states, which he did. Now he works a shit job in the states and dreams of being back in Thailand.

I agree 100%. See my post below on this topic.

[capcc76]

My friend (an intellectual property lawyer, btw, if it matters) had left California for Thailand. He is in his late 50's, went through a nasty divorce in the states (Falang woman, if it matters) and, basically wanted a fresh start. Moved to Thailand to start again. I'm friends with him on Facebook, and was checking out his photos. Every week new photos. It seemed like every week he was with a new (younger) girl, 20-30 years his junior. He had taken up a job teaching English. His reviews by the students at the high school level were great (he was really loved by the students). He got a job teaching at a major university in Thailand. I checked his profile, and saw him posting that he was going home. Now this made no sense to me because it looked like he was really enjoying life. (And let's face facts, living in Thailand and going out with young girls is alot better than living in the states and going out with girls your own age). So I finally spoke to him when he got back, and then he explained it to me. His ex wife had been complaining because, while he was making a good enough living to be in Thailand, it was not enough to pay off his child support and his alimony. His passport was gonna get pulled unless he came back to the states, which he did. Now he works a shit job in the states and dreams of being back in Thailand.

I agree 100%. See my post below on this topic.

You agree that some old dude being able post pictures of girls he is banging 1/2 his age on Facebook is more important than taking care of his child or children. He quit his job as an IP lawyer and became underemployed voluntarily so he could run away to Thailand and bang younger women. Cool. He can do that all he wants after his child is 18 or provided he can still provide the same support after voluntarily making himself underemployed.

The sad part is running away and not spending time with his child.

Submaniac may not be telling complete story here. His child support would have been calculated based on the child spending X number of days with him. If he took off to Thailand and child not spending X days with him, child support obligations would increase. Perhaps he simply could not afford the increased amount, but he should have never left if he could not afford to pay his debt after leaving.

[manarak]

amazing how many people judge, but we don't know any facts?

for example, maybe he initially paid and then saw that the money he paid to the mother was not spent for the benefit of the child.

in this case, I would see that I pay the bills directly whereever possible, for example the school.

i don't know much about US alimony and support laws, but in Switzerland the burden is shared between parents and when the children are past a certain age, the law assumes the mother to be working and pay her share. This is applied regardless of whether she has a job or not, if she is unemployed she gets benefits from the state which she has to use to pay her share of costs.

This means if she wants more money, she needs to get a job.

A good system from my point of view.

[SanSaiExPat]

Funny, but sad how this topic brings out the dead beat losers with a chip on their shoulder spouting ridiculous crap that child support benefits government, reimburses government or social security.

Child support is not to screw with dads. It applies to women equally that are noncustodial parents. It is about the child and has nothing to do with men, women, government, social security or etc.

I have been a lawyer for over 20 years and I can say unequivocally that the current child support guidelines and how it is calculated is extremely fair and reasonable. The current laws are in place because so many dead beat dads skipped out in their children.

The formula is an objective formula where you plug in incomes of both parents and days spent with both parents. If you want to reduce child support obligation, spend more days with your child. Court will give father and mother equal time provided neither parent is an extreme loser, drug addict or abussive person.

Hopefully, people like the guy that said a women only needs a $150 a month to care for a child does not and will not have any children. $150??? Cheap, pathetic and selfish or absolutely no clue what it takes to be a real man and a real father.

Fault in divorce is not a child support issue. You picked the women, you did her, you had a baby with her and you probably ran her off because you were selfish or a loser and that is not attractive to woman. It's not your child's fault it's yours causes by your decisions and your actions. Pay up suckers.

A lawyer, after all, is an "officer of the court". Given your background, your defense of "current child support guidelines" is understandable, but certainly not unbiased. I have found it amusing to see how the courts enjoy awarding confiscatory amounts of child support from individuals but when the government itself must pay for support of a child (social security, or welfare) they use a different calculator and are much less liberal.in their awards.

Sadly you appear to be another one of these "self hating" males who strangely think they are benevolent and righteous. You would have us believe you care for women and children but your language betrays you, "you did her", (What kind of idiot uses phrases like "you did her"? How misogynistic can you get! How juvenile! or "you ran her off because you were selfish or a loser" this language betrays your own self guilt and possibly failed relationships. You claim to have practiced law for 20 years. How many times in 20 years did you practice law? Once? Twice? It's not apparent from your post that you have a clue about family law. You can't even spell the word "abusive". If you're really a lawyer I pity the men you may have represented over 20 years in the family law courts.

[submaniac]

You agree that some old dude being able post pictures of girls he is banging 1/2 his age on Facebook is more important than taking care of his child or children. He quit his job as an IP lawyer and became underemployed voluntarily so he could run away to Thailand and bang younger women. Cool. He can do that all he wants after his child is 18 or provided he can still provide the same support after voluntarily making himself underemployed.

The sad part is running away and not spending time with his child.

Submaniac may not be telling complete story here. His child support would have been calculated based on the child spending X number of days with him. If he took off to Thailand and child not spending X days with him, child support obligations would increase. Perhaps he simply could not afford the increased amount, but he should have never left if he could not afford to pay his debt after leaving.

Actually, after the divorce (he lost custody of his kids, and the wife basically alienated his kids from him), he went through a serious bout of depression. His practice languished, and he was facing discipline for the state bar for not being able to account for client funds. He actually is still on suspension and not able to practice until restitution was paid. He's basically working as a paralegal in a small family law firm in Ventura. (That is my idea of hell). It is a very common practice for one parent to alienate the kids from the other parent.

You seem awfully judgmental, and it is apparently easy for you to pass judgment. But he was going through real hard times, and was really going through some depression issues, and if I were him, I probably would have been depressed too. He lost his house, all his property in the divorce. He had precious little left. He was unable to work in the states due to his bar suspension. Yes, I would have been depressed. I mean what do you want him to do, kill himself? A friend had a place in Bangkok, and he managed to find good paying work at an honorable profession. It was just being able to teach which he loved.

"He should never have left if he could not afford to pay his debt after leaving"? A lot of people will never be able to pay off the debt. If someone goes through a hard time (and yes, I consider depression to be a legitimate thing if you have lost everything in your life), what are you going to do? How are you going to pay off hundreds of thousands of dollars? If the debt is not immediately paid, you now have compound interest on the debt. You really won't be able to pay it off.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

How will he keep up with the payments in prison ? Sounds counter productive to me.

First they'll seize all of his assets wherever they are. Sounds like he had a good job.

Then because if they let him loose he's a flight risk, they make an example out of him to others.

If the mother and child have been destitute because of this, they have been receiving cash, housing and food benefits.

The mother and child are living in Utah. Few go hungry in Utah which is the center for Mormons. Mormons are big on food warehousing and providing free or cheap food even for non members. (Not endorsing Mormons.)

Normally, she would already have all his assets (from the divorce settlement).

$1,500 a month is more than most people in the US earn!

If she was destitute, I guess the mother might have considered getting a job.

No sympathy for her.

Sympathy for him.

OOps, jus read Sub's post, good on yer Subs!

Edited July 1, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AnotherOneAmerican]

U.S. child support is one of those debts that one can never escape. Child support and student loans are debts that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. The amount of child support is made on formula that uses (1) percentage of custody (2) gross monthly income. So if you make alot of money, your payments will be more than someone who is broke, and yes the monthly child support can be more than what is actually needed.

What bothers me about the system is that it is the state who is getting a cut of it. Local district attorneys have programs to recover child support. The district attorney's office for the county then gets a cut of whatever is recovered. And compound interest is added to what isn't paid. So while you argue that there's some deadbeat dad out there, keep in mind that what is really going on is that the government is making osure it gets its money.

Yes that is how it works in the UK.

It is the biggest violation to the rights of what they call absent

parents.

The CSA was formed purely to add to the government coffers. It was never about children.

I was caught up in it. Never paid into it (never assessed) never allowed my children to suffer. As was the intention of their mother and the government.

I joined an orgination fighting the CAS, you wouldn't believe the horror stories. More than 40 so called absent parents committed suicide in the first few years.

If anyone is really interested, try googling CSA UK.

jb1

Not how it works in the UK,

In the UK you can retire, no child support can be deducted or awarded from savings or pension income.

US is a bit harder, but still avoidable, if Subs post was correct, the man couldn't have been a very good lawyer, or he would have known how to avoid it.

[NoshowJones]

Just a blanket, the father must pay, may not always be just.

If for instance the wife leaves for no good reason and against the wishes of the father and moves in with another man should the father still have to pay.

This could be a real travesty if for instance the father is denied access to the child.

In this case he took off with the intention of withholding payments but what were the circumstances of the breakup.

I personally know of one case where a mother has moved out with children to live with another man and she and that man (unemployed) are living off Govt benefits while money is being is deducted from the fathers income to cover those benefits.

I presume this is in the UK, does America also do this?

[NoshowJones]

Good, he should of been man enough in the first place and took responsibility for his actions.

Didn't you read the previous post? You don't know the circumstances behind the break up. If I had a wife who left me for another man and took my kids, I would not pay anything unless I had regular access to my kids.

[parmo2]

Child support is collected by government, spiteful wives deliberately stop fathers from seeing their own kids and the government then takes as much as it can from the father to stop him defending himself. Many women also allege domestic violence to gain advantage . Domestic violence is usually made up under the advice of local wimmins groups or legal workers. These allegations range from economic violence (stopping her from spending 50% of budget on shoes) to "being scared of you" and "arguing in front of kids". In Europe and western countries outside USA she also receives free house, legal advice, but he may have to attend anti domestic violence classes due to the false allegations. Typically she also stops him from seeing kids but he will be jailed in USA the first short payment.

Why are the laws so anti male and unjust ?

It is all extension of chivalry , giving feminists lots of rights but never holding females responsible for their actions.

If these laws affect you or Your sons you would never write such sh## attacking men

[thaibeachlovers]

I'm so glad I never had kids.

I concur. Too often women use children against the sperm donor to gouge every last penny they can out of them.

[parmo2]

No wonder feminists have been able to do so much damage to male interests with all these unsympathetic white knight men writing here.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

No wonder feminists have been able to do so much damage to male interests with all these unsympathetic white knight men writing here.

If I may correct you here Sir,

No feminist would accept any money from a man, being his equal (or better) she would demand the right to earn all her own money, and support all her children without help from a man.

Women who accept, divorce settlement, alimony, child support are not feminists.

Edited July 1, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[sumtingwong]

No wonder feminists have been able to do so much damage to male interests with all these unsympathetic white knight men writing here.

If I may correct you here Sir,

No feminist would accept any money from a man, being his equal (or better) she would demand the right to earn all her own money, and support all her children without help from a man.

Women who accept, divorce settlement, alimony, child support are not feminists.

There must not be any feminists then.

[sumtingwong]

No American male should ever get married. If you want children, better to hire a surrogate. At least then you get to keep the children you pay for and you will know they are yours.

[sumtingwong]

This reminds me of the movie Divorce American Style (1967) - IMDb

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061581/

[AnotherOneAmerican]

No American male should ever get married. If you want children, better to hire a surrogate. At least then you get to keep the children you pay for and you will know they are yours.

And you get to keep your home and pension.

[parmo2]

Men and boys will have to wait until the "male pill" for a change in this unstinting assault on maleness by the state using our own taxes (70-75% of taxes paid by men, largely spent on women).

Why the male pill is taking so long is another discussion entirely, it is as if it has been banned by the oligarchs that rule us

[hereforgood]

I never missed a support payment in 15 years he must own up can not sympathize with him

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[AnotherOneAmerican]

I never missed a support payment in 15 years he must own up can not sympathize with him

But to be fair, were your payments $1,500 a month, and you unemployed because of mental health issues?

[Basil B]

There is a tight fisted mentality among some fathers which make me sick.

They run away from their responsibilities, and think buying beer and sex more important than supporting their off spring, I think these guys should have their nuts cut off.

[hereforgood]

I never missed a support payment in 15 years he must own up can not sympathize with him

But to be fair, were your payments $1,500 a month, and you unemployed because of mental health issues?

no and no but he did work for a big hotel while in Asia so mental health issues I would question

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