Is the Pattaya housing/condo bubble about to burst?

[Basil B]

Forget condo's/flats noisy concrete box living.

They are 10 a penny now in Thailand, fact: you have no control over the land that it is built on, and if it is decided to demolish the block for whatever reason you will have very little say in the matter.

If you are planning long term living in Thailand: Stretch your budget a little if you can, and invest in a house you may not make millions but you will never loose your investment if you do your homework and buy in the right area.

I have been buying and selling houses in the UK for the last 30 years and my parents before me; never lost a penny.

I have been buying and selling houses in Thailand for the last 10 years; never lost a Baht.

"Forget condo's/flats noisy concrete box living." From time to time there are condos being refurbished but in a well managed condominium there are rules that normally restrict the hours and days upon which working is allowed, as I recall where I had a condo there was no refurbishment allowed for about 3 weeks over Songkran, same for Christmas, New Year and Chinese New Year.

"They are 10 a penny now in Thailand, fact: you have no control over the land that it is built on, and if it is decided to demolish the block for whatever reason you will have very little say in the matter.", If you own a condo then you own a proportion of the condominiums common property including the land, the property is governed by a committee elected by the co-owners and many decisions have to be voted on at a meeting (AGM or EGM) open to all co-owners, I can not see any co-owner voting to demolish the building unless some developer had offered a lot more money than it was worth an all co-owners would benefit equally.

"If you are planning long term living in Thailand: Stretch your budget a little if you can, and invest in a house you may not make millions but you will never loose your investment if you do your homework and buy in the right area." Rubbish, as an alien you can not own the land it is built on.

please do not make posts that are total rubbish as you doing a total disservice to Pattaya's honourable dishonourable real estate agents who are more capable of putting the same misleading information more convincingly when it suites their interest.

[KittenKong]

Assuming your condo was a cheap one of about 5,000,000 baht, the car 1,000,000 baht, your net worth is about US $11 million.

My condo was less than that. My car was a bit less than that (and probably worth even less now). But above all your definition of "a few %" probably doesn't coincide with mine.

What I was trying to explain was that my exposure to Thailand is no more than I can lose without worrying (unduly) about it. The actual figures are not relevant at all and so I didn't mention them. This is the important part of the discussion, I think.

[KittenKong]

Only 80 baht for a bottle of water? In Myxx disco it's 160 baht.

Thankfully that's not a problem for me: I've never been there and never will. If there is one sort of place I absolutely detest it is discos.

[KittenKong]

so let me get this right.......there are 29 people on a waiting list to buy re-sale on a condo development and another bloke rocks up and is interested, only to be told that there is nothing available - but so desperate he adds his name to the list......

the place is so brilliant so no one ever sells and people towards the end of the list may never get a look in.....

It's more unusual than that. The building is so brilliant that there is a 30-name 3-year waiting list to buy, but when a unit becomes available it is sold to the first person on the list rather than just being put on the open market and sold to whoever offers the most.

That is indeed a new one on me and something I have never seen happen anywhere in the world.

[whitethai]

Forget condo's/flats noisy concrete box living.

They are 10 a penny now in Thailand, fact: you have no control over the land that it is built on, and if it is decided to demolish the block for whatever reason you will have very little say in the matter.

If you are planning long term living in Thailand: Stretch your budget a little if you can, and invest in a house you may not make millions but you will never loose your investment if you do your homework and buy in the right area.

I have been buying and selling houses in the UK for the last 30 years and my parents before me; never lost a penny.

I have been buying and selling houses in Thailand for the last 10 years; never lost a Baht.

Can we own houses 100 percent foreigner owned?

[Pattaya Lous]

fact: you have no control over the land that it is built on, and if it is decided to demolish the block for whatever reason you will have very little say in the matter.

That's absolutely wrong! There is not 1 owner of the land (who could sell it) but every apartment owner is also owner of the land in the same proportion than his apartment in the condo, as written on the chanote. Every decision about the land itself must be taken in AGM by owners and require a majority of 3/4. Risk is 0.000001%

There is a risk.

Check the deed for the land.

The land is owned normally by a Thai Company and the condo owners only own their interior space.

Owners cannot change the building in any way.

The owners can hold as many AGM's as they like but if it is decided to demolish the block there is little that owners can do as percentage owners.

[ThaiBob]

fact: you have no control over the land that it is built on, and if it is decided to demolish the block for whatever reason you will have very little say in the matter.

That's absolutely wrong! There is not 1 owner of the land (who could sell it) but every apartment owner is also owner of the land in the same proportion than his apartment in the condo, as written on the chanote. Every decision about the land itself must be taken in AGM by owners and require a majority of 3/4. Risk is 0.000001%

There is a risk.

Check the deed for the land.

The land is owned normally by a Thai Company and the condo owners only own their interior space.

Owners cannot change the building in any way.

The owners can hold as many AGM's as they like but if it is decided to demolish the block there is little that owners can do as percentage owners.

You are really confused as we are discussing freehold condominiums and not leasehold condominiums as in the case of many condo projects in Bangkok.

[Pattaya Lous]

Forget condo's/flats noisy concrete box living.

They are 10 a penny now in Thailand, fact: you have no control over the land that it is built on, and if it is decided to demolish the block for whatever reason you will have very little say in the matter.

If you are planning long term living in Thailand: Stretch your budget a little if you can, and invest in a house you may not make millions but you will never loose your investment if you do your homework and buy in the right area.

I have been buying and selling houses in the UK for the last 30 years and my parents before me; never lost a penny.

I have been buying and selling houses in Thailand for the last 10 years; never lost a Baht.

"Forget condo's/flats noisy concrete box living." From time to time there are condos being refurbished but in a well managed condominium there are rules that normally restrict the hours and days upon which working is allowed, as I recall where I had a condo there was no refurbishment allowed for about 3 weeks over Songkran, same for Christmas, New Year and Chinese New Year.

"They are 10 a penny now in Thailand, fact: you have no control over the land that it is built on, and if it is decided to demolish the block for whatever reason you will have very little say in the matter.", If you own a condo then you own a proportion of the condominiums common property including the land, the property is governed by a committee elected by the co-owners and many decisions have to be voted on at a meeting (AGM or EGM) open to all co-owners, I can not see any co-owner voting to demolish the building unless some developer had offered a lot more money than it was worth an all co-owners would benefit equally.

"If you are planning long term living in Thailand: Stretch your budget a little if you can, and invest in a house you may not make millions but you will never loose your investment if you do your homework and buy in the right area." Rubbish, as an alien you can not own the land it is built on.

please do not make posts that are total rubbish as you doing a total disservice to Pattaya's honourable dishonourable real estate agents who are more capable of putting the same misleading information more convincingly when it suites their interest.

I could go into much greater detail but trying to keep it simple.

your first point noise - did those rules include screaming kids and bad neighbours? Noisy water systems and banging doors? Cars and Motor Bikes pulling up at all hours?

Second point owners own a very small proportion of common property.

Three; as the director of the company that owns the land you have the controlling interest in law.

[whitethai]

Can foreign house buyers buy houses 100 percent foreigner owned?

[chiang mai]

Can foreign house buyers buy houses 100 percent foreigner owned?

No, you might be able to own the house in some way but never the land.

[tropo]

Only 80 baht for a bottle of water? In Myxx disco it's 160 baht.

Thankfully that's not a problem for me: I've never been there and never will. If there is one sort of place I absolutely detest it is discos.

My wife likes to go there occasionally (the "benefits" of a young wife), so indirectly these water prices affect me.

They used to charge 180 baht for a bottle of water (or Coke etc) in the old Tonys (white palace) disco.

You really should consider these prices as prices for entertainment, not water.

[tropo]

Assuming your condo was a cheap one of about 5,000,000 baht, the car 1,000,000 baht, your net worth is about US $11 million.

My condo was less than that. My car was a bit less than that (and probably worth even less now). But above all your definition of "a few %" probably doesn't coincide with mine.

What I was trying to explain was that my exposure to Thailand is no more than I can lose without worrying (unduly) about it. The actual figures are not relevant at all and so I didn't mention them. This is the important part of the discussion, I think.

Even if "a few" means 3% in your case, you're still sitting pretty. It would be nice to be wealthy enough to be able to kiss off "a few" million baht without much thought.

You're still a multi-millionaire (dollars). I wouldn't be living here if I had your kind of money.

[Pralaad]

My 2 cents worth.

Recent trend I noticed is new smaller developments with prices around 1.2 million.

There are 3-4 in south Pattaya.

I am in the market for a house or townhouse, and all new developments in the same area are about double of what it should be .

The other day, 4 semi detached houses, in the end of dead end soi , hardly any land and 100% no view , I mean literally all your views are next door houses . 2 bed, 2 bath, 1 car space , no pool, no security and try to guess the price????

Do not fall off your chairs, 5 million.

The development has the outer shell and all empty and abandoned .

I think well priced units will continue to sell well, but over priced will either turn to rust or they will reduce the price.

Buyers are getting smart and do shop around

[Rimmer]

All of the off topic bickering and flames have been removed, I think I got them all.

Back on topic please, thanks

[i claudius]

All of the off topic bickering and flames have been removed, I think I got them all.

Back on topic please, thanks

You missed Naam acusing me of earning black money on page two whats "black" money in Thailand ,i assume he means illegal , well i paid taxes so it must have been white.

P S my dads bigger than his dad.

Edited July 6, 2014 by i claudius

[KittenKong]

They used to charge 180 baht for a bottle of water (or Coke etc) in the old Tonys (white palace) disco.

You really should consider these prices as prices for entertainment, not water.

Absolutely. I have no problems with that. I'll even stretch to paying over the odds for a drink if I get a high-floor sunset view to enjoy with it.

But last time I looked Dicey Reilly's offered neither a view nor any particular entertainment worth mentioning. It's just an ordinary pub-restaurant with drinks prices that are way out of kilter with the cost of its meals and also with its local competition.

[KittenKong]

I wouldn't be living here if I had your kind of money.

For me one of the big advantages of being retired in Thailand is that I can avoid paying any income tax anywhere, quite legally. Another advantage is the easy and cheap retirement visa extension. Add to that the availability of tasty and varied food, pleasant weather (if a bit too hot), a big international airport an hour or so's drive away, fairly reliable infrastructure and fairly low prices when you look at the bottom line of all expenditure.

There you have nearly all my reasons for living in Pattaya. I know a fair few other people who have similar reasons for living here (quite a few are under 50 and work in offshore oil etc, and others are retired like me).

Most other countries I looked at don't offer all of these advantages, and other places in Thailand don't quite cut it either for various reasons.

[masterpasser]

I wouldn't be living here if I had your kind of money.

For me one of the big advantages of being retired in Thailand is that I can avoid paying any income tax anywhere, quite legally. Another advantage is the easy and cheap retirement visa extension. Add to that the availability of tasty and varied food, pleasant weather (if a bit too hot), a big international airport an hour or so's drive away, fairly reliable infrastructure and fairly low prices when you look at the bottom line of all expenditure.

There you have nearly all my reasons for living in Pattaya. I know a fair few other people who have similar reasons for living here (quite a few are under 50 and work in offshore oil etc, and others are retired like me).

Most other countries I looked at don't offer all of these advantages, and other places in Thailand don't quite cut it either for various reasons.

Monaco would offer most of what you have here and more - with your wedge well affordable

Easy residents visa

No income tax

Weather

Quality food

Infrastructure

International airport

Europe on doorstep

Downside - High living costs But remember you can't take it with you.

Politically stable

[smedly]

condo prices will remain high as long as there are stupid falangs being duped into paying inflated prices by scrupulous realters - then you have those that got duped and realised their error also talking prices up so they don't feel so stupid

That is the Pattaya market right there

[Naam]

I wouldn't be living here if I had your kind of money.

For me one of the big advantages of being retired in Thailand is that I can avoid paying any income tax anywhere, quite legally. Another advantage is the easy and cheap retirement visa extension. Add to that the availability of tasty and varied food, pleasant weather (if a bit too hot), a big international airport an hour or so's drive away, fairly reliable infrastructure and fairly low prices when you look at the bottom line of all expenditure.

There you have nearly all my reasons for living in Pattaya. I know a fair few other people who have similar reasons for living here (quite a few are under 50 and work in offshore oil etc, and others are retired like me).

Most other countries I looked at don't offer all of these advantages, and other places in Thailand don't quite cut it either for various reasons.

Monaco would offer most of what you have here and more - with your wedge well affordable

Easy residents visa

No income tax

Weather

Quality food

Infrastructure

International airport

Europe on doorstep

Downside - High living costs But remember you can't take it with you.

Politically stable

if you had the slightest idea of Monaco's real estate prices and rents you wouldn't have posted that "recommendation".

[KittenKong]

Monaco would offer most of what you have here and more - with your wedge well affordable

.....

I know Monaco quite well as I used to live a few hours drive from there and have some friends who lived between there and Nice. Housing costs (and general living costs like eating out) are best described as astronomical there. The price I paid for my condo here might get me a walk-in closet in Monaco, but the clothes-hangers would be extra. So yes I could buy somewhere to live there but from then on I would probably be begging for food.

Besides which having lived in Europe for many years I fancied being somewhere else for my retirement. Some south- and central American countries were quite high on my list too.

Downside - High living costs But remember you can't take it with you.

No, but it has to last me till I go which may be some time.

[whitethai]

You mean KittenKong is a multi millionaire and here is me trying to get back to Thailand past 7 years and even applied for Kitchen Porrter jobs with Hilton Hotels who never employ foreigners because of the thai laws and KittenKong cannot employ me somehow?

LOL

Sometimes I think there is not a God

[lapd]

The current developers must know something we don't.

Lol...that's funny. Just look at history if you want to know how wrong that assumption is. They are the ones that create the bubbles in the first place. It's nothing but pure greed and herd mentality.

Edited July 7, 2014 by lapd

[Naam]

The current developers must know something we don't.

Lol...that's funny. Just look at history if you want to know how wrong that assumption is. They are the ones that create the bubbles in the first place. It's nothing but pure greed and herd mentality.

are they all wrong because they are raking in millions and millions?

[morrobay]

With binoculars , for the last 3 months it looks like about two people are working at the very tall unfinished Centric Sea Pattaya condo.

Twin structures East of Second rd in line with Hard Rock.

Edited July 8, 2014 by morrobay

[KittenKong]

..... here is me trying to get back to Thailand past 7 years and even applied for Kitchen Porrter jobs with Hilton Hotels who never employ foreigners because of the thai laws ....

Hilton Pattaya do have several farang staff. The F&B dept has at least a couple of farang guys and there is also a farang woman who does the PR/marketing (I think they are German, or maybe Swiss or Austrian). I dare say they have other farang management people on the hotel side also but I never come into contact with them.

Cant see them taking on farangs for jobs below management level though. The Thai waitresses/waiters I have chatted with there all seemed to be educated to degree level.

[KittenKong]

With binoculars , for the last 3 months it looks like about two people are working at the very tall unfinished Centric Sea Pattaya condo.

I think that on their day off those two guys are also painting the outside of Movenpick in Na Jomtien.

[JesseFrank]

With binoculars , for the last 3 months it looks like about two people are working at the very tall unfinished Centric Sea Pattaya condo.

I think that on their day off those two guys are also painting the outside of Movenpick in Na Jomtien.

I have from a reliable source that they split their off days between Movenpick, Suan Sawarn, The Park and are considering to add a few to their list in the near future.

[tropo]

condo prices will remain high as long as there are stupid falangs being duped into paying inflated prices by scrupulous realters - then you have those that got duped and realised their error also talking prices up so they don't feel so stupid

That is the Pattaya market right there

This is not quite how it works. If there weren't "stupid falangs" paying the prices they are paying, we wouldn't be having this conversation because the condos would not exist in the first place. A high percentage of most good developments are sold before ground breaking. The developers in my area (Pratumnak Hill) start a new building before the previous one is complete, so business is brisk.

Sure, the realtors keep the whole "dream" alive by selling them high, but isn't that the nature of real estate and any business? ... getting the best possible price.

[whitethai]

Well that is exactly it matey. Low jobs are only for Thais unless you have high job or degree but unfortunately I dont.

I am working on an Iphone app no a coder I just hire people with what money I can afford maybe it will take off and I join yo for drink one day

..... here is me trying to get back to Thailand past 7 years and even applied for Kitchen Porrter jobs with Hilton Hotels who never employ foreigners because of the thai laws ....

Hilton Pattaya do have several farang staff. The F&B dept has at least a couple of farang guys and there is also a farang woman who does the PR/marketing (I think they are German, or maybe Swiss or Austrian). I dare say they have other farang management people on the hotel side also but I never come into contact with them.

Cant see them taking on farangs for jobs below management level though. The Thai waitresses/waiters I have chatted with there all seemed to be educated to degree level.