Massive overhaul to australian disability pensions.......no more thai

[MK1]

This is just another freedom barrier imposed upon those with a disability that have no way of voicing their concerns fairly and equally other than at the election box.

I guess what the government is more concerned about is the amount of DSP claimants on the horizon, projected to be one-million in the next decade, due to the rise of an aging population carrying a significant amount of health risks.

Those conscientious enough to be living in Thailand, in comparison to those DSP battlers doing it hard in OZ unable to afford a Latte, Beer & smokes, seems like a convenient beat up to divide a few silent die-hards in favor of winning few votes at the next election.

No doubt the majority of 800,000 DSP recipients (The Sunday Telegraph, 22/12/2013) perhaps did not entirely support the Abbott government at the last election. Also given the shock and awe of the recent budget handed down inclusive of recent sacking of the Disability Discrimination Commissioner- Graeme Innes, in light of this, it is highly-unlikely they'll win the hearts and minds of the remaining people on the DSP scheme too. So better pack your bags as well 'Mr Abbott'.

Edited July 5, 2014 by MK1

[MrWorldwide]

Lets just face it the Australian government is taking away our way of life and is colluding with big business for their own benefit after politics.

That maybe the reality as you see ... I don't see it the same way.

Nor do I - the Australian taxpayer doesn't owe me a cent. If they're happy for aged pensioners to live exist on a pittance in Sydney and Melbourne, why should they (taxpayers) pay for the disabled to camp out in SEA ?

[coconutbar]

Lets just face it the Australian government is taking away our way of life and is colluding with big business for their own benefit after politics.

That maybe the reality as you see ... I don't see it the same way.

Nor do I - the Australian taxpayer doesn't owe me a cent. If they're happy for aged pensioners to live exist on a pittance in Sydney and Melbourne, why should they (taxpayers) pay for the disabled to camp out in SEA ?

Umm check your facts my friend age pensioners have this thing caled unlimited portability .........

These northshore pollies have no idea how it is not been born with a silver spoon in mouth and as soon as they see the less fortunate getting a taste of a life above ten bed dorms and homeless free feeds they wanna take it away.

Goto snookyvile and see how the disabled are treated there you would like see disabled begging for a buck in the street just like abbott , feel good about yourself then probly....

[Poompui]

Great...just when I am thinking of going for disability......COPD.....etc.

The last 10 years have been working in mining,paying between $1,000 to $2,000 a week tax...

Still gonna quit my job and get the hell out of Australia while I still have some money left.

And health.....

Sorry,it just gets to me that I finally earn some good money and all the Govt does is take it from me......

[samran]

Great...just when I am thinking of going for disability......COPD.....etc.

The last 10 years have been working in mining,paying between $1,000 to $2,000 a week tax...

Still gonna quit my job and get the hell out of Australia while I still have some money left.

And health.....

Sorry,it just gets to me that I finally earn some good money and all the Govt does is take it from me......

Just as long as Gina and Twiggy get their diesel fuel rebate, pay no mining tax and can now thanks to Mathias Cormann can now offset exploration losses against income (which was part of Rudds mining tax mark one proposal but you won't hear London born boat arrival Tony tell you that) then the rest of us can go get stuffed.

Don't understand why people thought they'd do anything different when they voted for this mob in...

Edited July 5, 2014 by samran

[MrWorldwide]

Great...just when I am thinking of going for disability......COPD.....etc.

The last 10 years have been working in mining,paying between $1,000 to $2,000 a week tax...

Still gonna quit my job and get the hell out of Australia while I still have some money left.

And health.....

Sorry,it just gets to me that I finally earn some good money and all the Govt does is take it from me......

OK and the money you earned before they deducted your tax ? The tax concessions you would have been eligible for working in remote areas etc ? To pay that kind of tax you would have earned well over 150K a year with a take-home pay north of 100K even with the medicare levy. Right now, thats over 3 million baht - how many here would kill to be on that kind of money ?

No argument that miners do it tough but I dont hear the FIFO guys complaining about the fact that they have enough money AND the time off to be able to enjoy Thailand and Bali on a regular basis when most of us spent years sitting in that bloody departure lounge knowing it would be 6-9 months before we could get back to Thailand. I worked in Rocky when Mackay had the biggest HSV dealership in the country and real estate agents across the region had a field day. If you were paying a 1-2K a week in tax you should have hired a creative accountant to minimise that figure - whatever your physical issues now, you had 10 years in an industry where employers were happy to keep throwing money at you - surely you had to know that wouldn't last forever. My advice is to be happy with what you've got.

Australian tax rates:

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/income-and-deductions/how-much-income-tax-you-pay/individual-income-tax-rates/

[MrWorldwide]

Goto snookyvile and see how the disabled are treated there you would like see disabled begging for a buck in the street just like abbott , feel good about yourself then probly....

I dont have to go to Cambodia to see that, and I can assure you that it doesnt make me feel good about myself. No nanny state here.

[tifino]

the current gubberment is weening out all those DSPers who became such during the Labor years.

Labor cooked the Unemployment figures, by having the Assessment Procedures enable the transferring of substantial numbers of unemployed, over to the DSP.

This then reduced the Unemployment figures.

Abbott's getting this corrected finally...

The restriction of DSP o'seas travel is gunna hurt, yes!

But, as one these recipients, who qualified for DSP back 12 years ago, I have no scare of having to go through the Medical process again.

When I went through the initial long process, I was assessed against the 15 hours/week benchmark.

In my situation, I was assessed against a more stringent 8 hours/week ex-military disability retirement procedure, so the DSP test is nothing for this little black duck to worry about (next time round)

The re-assessments are going to become a very effective means of weening out the:

1. 'fake' DSP recipients.

2. Doctors who were in on the Labor scam

[Lizard2010]

the current gubberment is weening out all those DSPers who became such during the Labor years.

Labor cooked the Unemployment figures, by having the Assessment Procedures enable the transferring of substantial numbers of unemployed, over to the DSP.

This then reduced the Unemployment figures.

Abbott's getting this corrected finally...

The restriction of DSP o'seas travel is gunna hurt, yes!

But, as one these recipients, who qualified for DSP back 12 years ago, I have no scare of having to go through the Medical process again.

When I went through the initial long process, I was assessed against the 15 hours/week benchmark.

In my situation, I was assessed against a more stringent 8 hours/week ex-military disability retirement procedure, so the DSP test is nothing for this little black duck to worry about (next time round)

The re-assessments are going to become a very effective means of weening out the:

1. 'fake' DSP recipients.

2. Doctors who were in on the Labor scam

Obviously you do not know all.

It was actually the Liberals with John Howard who started it in his last term.

Then he tried to get as many off DSP as he could.

He did the damage and then labour got the blame.

All this happen in 2005

Edited July 6, 2014 by Lizard2010

[mcfish]

A large majority of the population strongly believe that the DSP is a scam and a rort, right up until they are hit by a bus or suffer a stroke. Those people then cry its not fair! why cant I just live in Thailand where I can be cared for by a Thai lady and perhaps even have a chance to find love?

Then there is the throw away line 'If ya fit ta fly then ya to fit for the DSP" any one notice wheelchairs and and priority access? No one died from because they sat down for 8 hours.

The same idiots who think its a rort and that people on DSP should NOT be allowed to live O/S dont understand how the huge strain on welfare including medicare, rent assistance effects the economy.

Now here is the thing, these legit people on DSP who have suddenly lost access to their wives and children and will now start the process of bringing them back to OZ. What do you think that will do ?

Yes bring them all back that is the clever thing..

Edited July 6, 2014 by mcfish

[Sherry Ayittey]

the way forward if you think you have been hard done by is the http://www.aat.gov.au/

last i looked it was free and quite simple to lodge appeals and the irresponsible department has lost similar cases in the past. start now and hit em hard.

[Poompui]

Great...just when I am thinking of going for disability......COPD.....etc.

The last 10 years have been working in mining,paying between $1,000 to $2,000 a week tax...

Still gonna quit my job and get the hell out of Australia while I still have some money left.

And health.....

Sorry,it just gets to me that I finally earn some good money and all the Govt does is take it from me......

OK and the money you earned before they deducted your tax ? The tax concessions you would have been eligible for working in remote areas etc ? To pay that kind of tax you would have earned well over 150K a year with a take-home pay north of 100K even with the medicare levy. Right now, thats over 3 million baht - how many here would kill to be on that kind of money ?

No argument that miners do it tough but I dont hear the FIFO guys complaining about the fact that they have enough money AND the time off to be able to enjoy Thailand and Bali on a regular basis when most of us spent years sitting in that bloody departure lounge knowing it would be 6-9 months before we could get back to Thailand. I worked in Rocky when Mackay had the biggest HSV dealership in the country and real estate agents across the region had a field day. If you were paying a 1-2K a week in tax you should have hired a creative accountant to minimise that figure - whatever your physical issues now, you had 10 years in an industry where employers were happy to keep throwing money at you - surely you had to know that wouldn't last forever. My advice is to be happy with what you've got.

Australian tax rates:

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/income-and-deductions/how-much-income-tax-you-pay/individual-income-tax-rates/

3rd wife......starting from scratch $0 in the bank 10 years ago.

Never said I wasn't happy,but get annoyed when Govt keeps moving the goal posts and imposes extra taxes on people who work hard and aren't a drain on the system.

Extra taxes like the "bring the budget back on track" levy,the "disability support" levy,Medicare levy...and lets raise the retirement age to 70 while we are at it....

As if I'll live that long.

Anyway,enjoy life.......

[coconutbar]

Great...just when I am thinking of going for disability......COPD.....etc.

The last 10 years have been working in mining,paying between $1,000 to $2,000 a week tax...

Still gonna quit my job and get the hell out of Australia while I still have some money left.

And health.....

Sorry,it just gets to me that I finally earn some good money and all the Govt does is take it from me......

OK and the money you earned before they deducted your tax ? The tax concessions you would have been eligible for working in remote areas etc ? To pay that kind of tax you would have earned well over 150K a year with a take-home pay north of 100K even with the medicare levy. Right now, thats over 3 million baht - how many here would kill to be on that kind of money ?

No argument that miners do it tough but I dont hear the FIFO guys complaining about the fact that they have enough money AND the time off to be able to enjoy Thailand and Bali on a regular basis when most of us spent years sitting in that bloody departure lounge knowing it would be 6-9 months before we could get back to Thailand. I worked in Rocky when Mackay had the biggest HSV dealership in the country and real estate agents across the region had a field day. If you were paying a 1-2K a week in tax you should have hired a creative accountant to minimise that figure - whatever your physical issues now, you had 10 years in an industry where employers were happy to keep throwing money at you - surely you had to know that wouldn't last forever. My advice is to be happy with what you've got.

Australian tax rates:

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/income-and-deductions/how-much-income-tax-you-pay/individual-income-tax-rates/

3rd wife......starting from scratch $0 in the bank 10 years ago.

Never said I wasn't happy,but get annoyed when Govt keeps moving the goal posts and imposes extra taxes on people who work hard and aren't a drain on the system.

Extra taxes like the "bring the budget back on track" levy,the "disability support" levy,Medicare levy...and lets raise the retirement age to 70 while we are at it....

As if I'll live that long.

Anyway,enjoy life.......

Enjoy life .......

Try telling abbott that , his idea of r and r is a cup water and a slice of bread for dipping , him and his churchy mates frown upon anything hedonistic .

[Aussieroaming]

I'm not saying don't stop the mugs who rip off the system. No one likes a bludger.

But don't throw a blanket over the whole issue to weed out the rubbish.

Many people deserve their pensions.

A bloke I worked with was living in Asia and had declared non residency for tax purposes for a few years while he was away. In the Vietnam war era he was a digger in Vietnam doing it tough for the country. When he wanted to return to Australia he found out that he was no longer eligible for a veterans pension.. In my view that's crap..that bloke already put his life on the line for his country, more than Abbott would ever do.

Abbott will have his pension ++ for life. He's the real scumbag, not the digger.

[cdnvic]

Trashed a few comments that were off topic and barely readable.

This is a forum, not an SMS message. Please use old fashioned capitalization, punctuation, and such so that others can read it without getting a headache.

[neverdie]

I'm not saying don't stop the mugs who rip off the system. No one likes a bludger.

But don't throw a blanket over the whole issue to weed out the rubbish.

Many people deserve their pensions.

A bloke I worked with was living in Asia and had declared non residency for tax purposes for a few years while he was away. In the Vietnam war era he was a digger in Vietnam doing it tough for the country. When he wanted to return to Australia he found out that he was no longer eligible for a veterans pension.. In my view that's crap..that bloke already put his life on the line for his country, more than Abbott would ever do.

Abbott will have his pension ++ for life. He's the real scumbag, not the digger.

Sorry to hear that so done like your brother will suffer again at Policy like this one.

It's the disparity between s c u m sucker pollies and the rest of the Australian society that upsets so many.

If Tony Abbotts legs were crushed while in a little party trip, he'd have solid gold mechanical wheels installed and he'd be whisked around on a feather bed by 36000 vestal virgins.

There will be people caught up in this net that will suffer greatly. Sadly there's not a decent politician in Australia, not one.

[neverdie]

I think the day of the dole bludger vanished starting in the mid 90s onwards. While not ungenerous Australia's welfare system is one of the most targeted in the world and still one of the most modest.

For me this move is simply another measure you'd expect from one of the most ideological right wing conservative governments in a generation and kicking the most needy when they are down in part and parcel of what they do.

And I'm an economist and that is saying a lot, cause I am a genuine economic conservative.

Where costs have blown out in Australia is the middle class welfare stuff. Why government needs to subsidise the private health insurance industry to the tune of 30% of premiums is beyond me. Why we need to subsidise diesel fuel for mining companies is perplexing.

Moves like this disability pension restriction is going to pay for paid maternity leave schemes for mums earning $150k.

Again, this is simply another low blow from our current government.

Samran,

I rarely lean forward and slap you, no need, your normally right on the mark

HOWEVER, I wish to officially lodge an objection to your assumption about 'bludgers' in Oz.

You don't have to travel far past certain Australian costal towns and other areas of Oz to see no shortage of Doll bludgers.

In many places they congregate together in crappy little rented homes, a dozen paying $300 a week and spending the rest, surfing, boozing and playing the system. The rules have changed yet there's no shortage of board players in town.

Anyway, it's not a biggy, but the bludgers are still out there. I don't think the Abbott govt is jumping at shadows, but they are certainly going about this the wrong way. At a time when they should be increasing funding to the necessary depts to catch out cheats, they go the opposite way at the detriment of genuine disable people.

The Australian people are in the streets, hopefully they won't just lynch Abbott but round the entire populous of pompous pollies up and gut the lot of them. I'd imagine it would take a am mamoth effort to gut that useless git Clive palmer. Geeze he's got a set of guts on him.

[Douggie Style]

On the figures from the article about 1 in 24 Australians are on a DSP.. that means 1 in every 24 is not working and getting a support payment because, according to the criteria, they are too disabled to work.

It would be interesting to compare this to figures from another first world country.

Personally I know of a gent who has been on this payment or the predecessor for decades..

It started after he left his wife and two kids to fend for themselves in a messy breakup, he boasted to all and sundry she would not see a cent and he would go on the dole to circumvent any payment, which he promptly did.

He was a panel beater and claimed his hands hurt from the constant battering so then went onto a DSP.

We saw him the other day, he told us he has a house provided by the government, was riding a bicycle towing a large boat (boat trailer made by him) and his current project is restoring a car...he looks strong and healthy

Again a civilized society and my personal belief and I think most people is we have to look after the genuinely disabled.

BTW the super guarantee is a minimum, government workers get paid 15%, Samran's right the Aust super system is effectively privatizing the pension, this strengthens the whole economy and deals with the boomer bulge, the figures of 40 years and 20% are highly arbitrary based on an average, each case is different.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Douggie Style

[David48]

On the figures from the article about 1 in 24 Australians are on a DSP.. that means 1 in every 24 is not working and getting a support payment because, according to the criteria, they are too disabled to work.

A subtle change ... not 'all' Australians ... but potential working Australians.

(To my knowledge)

[samran]

I think the day of the dole bludger vanished starting in the mid 90s onwards. While not ungenerous Australia's welfare system is one of the most targeted in the world and still one of the most modest.

For me this move is simply another measure you'd expect from one of the most ideological right wing conservative governments in a generation and kicking the most needy when they are down in part and parcel of what they do.

And I'm an economist and that is saying a lot, cause I am a genuine economic conservative.

Where costs have blown out in Australia is the middle class welfare stuff. Why government needs to subsidise the private health insurance industry to the tune of 30% of premiums is beyond me. Why we need to subsidise diesel fuel for mining companies is perplexing.

Moves like this disability pension restriction is going to pay for paid maternity leave schemes for mums earning $150k.

Again, this is simply another low blow from our current government.

Samran,

I rarely lean forward and slap you, no need, your normally right on the mark

HOWEVER, I wish to officially lodge an objection to your assumption about 'bludgers' in Oz.

You don't have to travel far past certain Australian costal towns and other areas of Oz to see no shortage of Doll bludgers.

In many places they congregate together in crappy little rented homes, a dozen paying $300 a week and spending the rest, surfing, boozing and playing the system. The rules have changed yet there's no shortage of board players in town.

Anyway, it's not a biggy, but the bludgers are still out there. I don't think the Abbott govt is jumping at shadows, but they are certainly going about this the wrong way. At a time when they should be increasing funding to the necessary depts to catch out cheats, they go the opposite way at the detriment of genuine disable people.

The Australian people are in the streets, hopefully they won't just lynch Abbott but round the entire populous of pompous pollies up and gut the lot of them. I'd imagine it would take a am mamoth effort to gut that useless git Clive palmer. Geeze he's got a set of guts on him.

Fair point and I guess there will always be those you describe no matter how you design a system. With any system there is going to be a point where you are effectively taxed at a high effective rate of 75% where the government takes away $3 of benefit for every $1 you might earn from paid employment. No doubt these people live in that little netherworld where there is little incentive to work and I don't doubt many are happy to.

I guess my main point was the system is highly targeted already, and the payments modest on a global scale. I had to drop everything a few years back to take care of a sick relative and qualified for carers payment for a while as a result and became a centrelink expert. While the careers payment was one of the mode generous around, it still wasn't very much so I struggle to see how much bludging can be really done these days.

For me the issues of long term unemployment are more important. The longer you are out of the workforce the less employable you become. Given this a big issue it just pisses me off to see the government using the least able to defend themselves as a political punching bag.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[mcfish]

On the figures from the article about 1 in 24 Australians are on a DSP.. that means 1 in every 24 is not working and getting a support payment because, according to the criteria, they are too disabled to work.

It would be interesting to compare this to figures from another first world country.

Personally I know of a gent who has been on this payment or the predecessor for decades..

It started after he left his wife and two kids to fend for themselves in a messy breakup, he boasted to all and sundry she would not see a cent and he would go on the dole to circumvent any payment, which he promptly did.

He was a panel beater and claimed his hands hurt from the constant battering so then went onto a DSP.

We saw him the other day, he told us he has a house provided by the government, was riding a bicycle towing a large boat (boat trailer made by him) and his current project is restoring a car...he looks strong and healthy

Again a civilized society and my personal belief and I think most people is we have to look after the genuinely disabled.

BTW the super guarantee is a minimum, government workers get paid 15%, Samran's right the Aust super system is effectively privatizing the pension, this strengthens the whole economy and deals with the boomer bulge, the figures of 40 years and 20% are highly arbitrary based on an average, each case is different.

Charming fellow, I assume your not close friends the way you describe him. Having said that its a big mistake to judge from afar. It could well be he has a mental illness as well and his not going to shout that from the roof tops for sure although It may explain why he is towing a large boat with a bicycle

However having said that ,Mental illness got the chop in the Budget as well, something like 250,000 will be turfed onto newstart. Thats going to make for some interesting job applications

[coconutbar]

250000 extraon new start hope abbott is prepared for night of the living dead in surry hills, northbridge, kings cross, st kilda. Dubbo. The valley, etcetcetc

[aarn]

I've been living in LoS guest houses for most of the past four years. Australian 50yo+ males on the DSP are the least endearing cohabitants, having recently surpassed young brits in this regard.

This antipodean cohort talks incessantly at high volume, principally of their boorish sexual exploits and their beloved homeland. They whinge about the perceived paucity of their pension, and how unfair the new regulations concerning in-country time will be. Despite the national pastime of accusing brits of being reluctant bathers, members of this tribe frequently luxuriate in personal fetidness.

If the Abbott government were able to incise Bali and Phuket (as opposed to the excision of Christmas Island etc) to the Australian mainland, then perhaps these DSPers could continue their fervent frolicking in such island (non-)paradises and leave LoS for others to enjoy.

Your correspondent was born in Sydney, has aussie passport, living in LoS (after reasonably strenuous working life and occupation-associated orthopaedic insults) on retirement extension, via meagre savings rather than benefits

[David48]

I've been living in LoS guest houses for most of the past four years. Australian 50yo+ males on the DSP are the least endearing cohabitants, having recently surpassed young brits in this regard.

This antipodean cohort talks incessantly at high volume, principally of their boorish sexual exploits and their beloved homeland. They whinge about the perceived paucity of their pension, and how unfair the new regulations concerning in-country time will be. Despite the national pastime of accusing brits of being reluctant bathers, members of this tribe frequently luxuriate in personal fetidness.

If the Abbott government were able to incise Bali and Phuket (as opposed to the excision of Christmas Island etc) to the Australian mainland, then perhaps these DSPers could continue their fervent frolicking in such island (non-)paradises and leave LoS for others to enjoy.

Your correspondent was born in Sydney, has aussie passport, living in LoS (after reasonably strenuous working life and occupation-associated orthopaedic insults) on retirement extension, via meagre savings rather than benefits

Not having livid your current life, nor shared your accommodations over said year ... I did raise a smile as your descriptive elegance on how you have found your neighbours ...

.