Two female Thai students brutally killed at a flea market

[simple1]

Why we don't hear/read about these killings and the conflict that's been going on in foreign media? The way we know about it in Mindanao-Basilan-Jolo in the Philippines, for example? Are there travel advisories in effect from foreign governments?

Once again, Thailand proves to be the 'teflon country", no matter what, sweep it under the rug, tourists will come.

The deep South conflict has been covered on a number of occassions by mainstream foreign media such as BBC, CNN & Time Magazine. Guess right now more focus on events in M.E.

Yes, Western governments do have advisory for deep South provinces and have had for a number of years e.g.

Southern provinces - Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat and Songkhla: We strongly advise you not to travel at this time to the southern provinces of Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat and Songkhla, or overland to and from the Malaysian border through these provinces due to high levels of ongoing violence in these regions. This includes travel by train between Thailand and Malaysia.

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Thailand

Thanks.

The US state dept makes no mention of the southern provinces in its equivalent "travel alert":

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/thailand-travel-alert.html

Dig deeper, examples...

Violence in Southern Thailand - Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla: The deep south of Thailand has experienced almost daily incidents of criminally and politically motivated violence for several years, including acts attributed to armed local separatist groups. Although the separatist groups have primarily targeted security officials and Thai government interests in the southern provinces, they sometimes target public and commercial areas, including railways and areas where foreigners may congregate.

The U.S. Embassy prohibits its personnel from traveling to the far south of Thailand – specifically, Narathiwat, Pattani, and Yala provinces -- without prior approval, and Embassy personnel may go there only on work-essential travel. U.S. Embassy and Consulate personnel must provide advance notification of travel to Songkhla province, and they are advised to use hotels outside Hat Yai’s central business district. The Department of State urges you to defer non-emergency travel to these areas.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/thailand.html

[Bluespunk]

the quran say 'moslem cannot coexist with the infedel'.

i suspect a thousand years from now, no moslem will exist on this planet.

There is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clear from error" (Sura 2.256).

Apologists for Islam often quote this verse, and most Westerners, unfamiliar with the Koran and imagining that it must obey the same theological logic as the Christian Bible, assume that Islamic scripture mandates religious toleration toward non-Muslims. That assumption is inaccurate.

The Koran includes many abrogated verses, called mansukh, and abrogating verses, nasikh; the latter cancel the former, rendering them invalid, though they nevertheless remain in the Koran and are deceptively quoted, for Western consumption, as though they still represented genuine Islamic beliefs.

I'm no apologist. I'm an aetheist. I just find mindless religious bigotry from all sides as being the real cancer in society.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Bluespunk

[transam]

Some of us would like the tools to deal with these scrotes am sure. This stuff really brings home the true meaning of "cowards"..

[Bluespunk]

There is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256)

Christ! On a thread about two young women murdered by Islamic terrorists, with have an apologist quoting the Koran at us. How low can you get?

This isn't Islamic

It's so Islamic. To anyone who hasn't got his head buried in the sand, that is.

Oh, and not every Muslim is a terrorist.

Right, right. Try showing these non-terrorist Muslims a cartoon of Mohammed and see the reaction

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

Really I'm low am I? Yet you neglect to include the quote I was countering.

How low can you get?

As low as it takes to spread your bigotry I suspect.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Bluespunk

[monkeycountry]

Thailand should deal with this whilst the Coup is on! It will be too late afterwards. Many countries have the same problem, but Thailand has an ideal opportunity to cleanse itself of these people - as well as the other long list of things that need to be addressed.

When certain dictators decided to conduct some ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe, most onlookers condemned them - maybe rightly so at that time, but we hadn't had 9/11 then and did not know so much about the terrorists that we were facing. We know a lot more now and I wouldn't be so quick to condemn new ethnic cleansing because these cold blooded killers are targeting people like me - who doesn't want to be converted to their religion I - or any religion for that matter. I take each day as it comes, without any religion - so why should I fear for my life ?

Unbelievable - someone actually thinks that ethnic cleansing is a viable policy??

Do you think that all those murdered people in the ethnic cleansing programs that followed the break up of Yugoslavia were rabid religious fanatics? All sides had been slaughtering one another for hundreds of years. The Nazi Catholic Croats butchered orthodox Serbs during WW2 with a cruelty that even the SS didn't match. Note, not Moslems but Catholics. I knew people who were there at that time and they forecast the country would erupt again when Tito died, which it did. But really, ethnic cleansing as an answer - come on.

Using your logic the British should have ethnically cleansed Northern Ireland and kicked all the Catholics out. That would have stopped the IRA then. Or the Spanish should eradicate the Basques, etc etc.

You're not serious, are you?

No - I don't suppose I am serious with ethnic cleansing, just very p*ssed off......but I will tell you that the world must react very strongly to Muslim Extremists and stop pussy footing around with excuses for not nailing it ! In my home country, no one can even mention the word " Muslim and Terrorist " together without being called a " racist " or being accused of spreading hate, yet we have Muslims standing on the busy high streets in all the major cities spreading hate through the leaflets that they hand out and the speeches that they give both in public and in the mosques. The government and media are frightened to death to say anything wrong about these people, yet they are the single biggest enemy we face on our own soil. Ok - I will take back " ethnic cleansing " - but the governments around the world need to stop pussying around with this lot. Don't forget, you are not able to travel safely or freely these days because of the terror and fear that Muslim Extremists have caused in this world - I can put up with a few accidental deaths if that is what it takes to clean them out !

Ethnic cleansing? Accidental deaths?

You mean indiscrimnate religious or ethnic based murders to ensure your way of life is the victor.

How is that different from the terrorist scum who murder in the name of religion?

I think it is important to remember that Islam is not just a religion, it is also a political ideology like democracy, communism etc. And it is an ideology that needs to be fought by all means, as it promotes pretty much the direct opposite of democracy and the modern way of life much of the world has fought very hard for over the past few hundred years.

Christianity was very similar 500 or so years ago, and caused lots of harm all over the world. I am quite sure most people today are thankful that we eventually got smarter, and that christianity today is just a "hobby" to most people. Unfortunately it seems many muslims still have 500 years to go.

[Udoth]

There is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256)

Christ! On a thread about two young women murdered by Islamic terrorists, with have an apologist quoting the Koran at us. How low can you get?

This isn't Islamic

It's so Islamic. To anyone who hasn't got his head buried in the sand, that is.

Oh, and not every Muslim is a terrorist.

Right, right. Try showing these non-terrorist Muslims a cartoon of Mohammed and see the reaction

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

Poor you. Can you see who is a muslim and who not when you are walking on the street in Bangkok? What do you do when you know someone is a muslim? Torture him or run away, are you scared?

Do you have some perverted feelings, perhaps tingles, when you show a muslim a cartoon of their Holy Prophet? Or do you enjoy to provoke people.

How about them showing you a cartoon of your naked mother? Perhaps you would like that too.

You are some weirdo, calling 2.000.000.000(two billion) people in the World terrorists. Why don't you go live in Myanmar instead? They're likeminded.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Udoth

[monkeycountry]

4re these two women Muslim or Thai?

You can be Thai and Muslim you know.

Oh, and not every Muslim is a terrorist.

Just in case you were wondering.

True, but almost every terrorist is a muslim

[bigbamboo]

Would Allah really welcome these shits into his paradise?

[Bluespunk]

@monkeycountry

You

I think it is important to remember that Islam is not just a religion, it is also a political ideology like democracy, communism etc. And it is an ideology that needs to be fought by all means, as it promotes pretty much the direct opposite of democracy and the modern way of life much of the world has fought very hard for over the past few hundred years.

Christianity was very similar 500 or so years ago, and caused lots of harm all over the world. I am quite sure most people today are thankful that we eventually got smarter, and that christianity today is just a "hobby" to most people. Unfortunately it seems many muslims still have 500 years to go.

Me

All creeds and ideologies have sects and splinter groups. The followers of the ideology/creed should not all be judged by the actions of a sect/splinter group.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Bluespunk

[bander]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thailand should deal with this whilst the Coup is on! It will be too late afterwards. Many countries have the same problem, but Thailand has an ideal opportunity to cleanse itself of these people - as well as the other long list of things that need to be addressed.
When certain dictators decided to conduct some ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe, most onlookers condemned them - maybe rightly so at that time, but we hadn't had 9/11 then and did not know so much about the terrorists that we were facing. We know a lot more now and I wouldn't be so quick to condemn new ethnic cleansing because these cold blooded killers are targeting people like me - who doesn't want to be converted to their religion I - or any religion for that matter. I take each day as it comes, without any religion - so why should I fear for my life ?

I hope I never wake to see a world that does not condem ethnic cleansing (genocidal indiscriminate mass murder).

Where do you think the hate comes from that leads scum like these two to murder in the name of religion?

I hope the scum who murdered these two women are caught and punished, but to justify mass killings based on religion or ethnicity because of their barbaric actions is ridiculous and utterly devoid of any semblance of human feeling or understanding of the horror that the words "ethnic cleansing" represent.

Right! And very often such things are inside jobs - even back in the Wild West, whites would dress up as Sioux or whatever to attack a settler's village of which they knew that the men were out in the fields or hunting, killed women, children and the elderly before they would burn down the place to blame it on the indians. Revenge came swiftly and we know where it all went from there.

I still believe that the majority of muslim people wants nothing but peace and is not interested in forcing their believe on others. These people (for their own sake) should help to fight and expose such culprits, extremists and separatists if they don't want to be pulled under along with them...

"I still believe that the majority of muslim people wants nothing but peace and is not interested in forcing their believe on others."

Do you believe in Santa clause too?

[bangrak]

i really wonder whats going on, in south thailand. What can push thai people to commit this senseless killing of innocent victims?

The murdering scum may not be Thai.

Those are not Thai people. They are in what once was the sultanate of Pattani.

During the reign of Rhamkhanmen, it was annexed by force and became part of Thailand. All the inhabitants of Pattani were, and are, Muslims, with customs and language different from Thai. That is the genesis of the violence in the South.

Even if technically they are Thai by birth they do not consider themselves Thai.

That violence is nothing new. Nowadays in this Media saturated world we hear more frequently about it.

It cannot end nor be attenuated until Thainess morphs and becomes less nationalistic and accepts compromise over the stubbornness of losing face.

Sort of: business is bad in the store: let's raise the prices!

Who are the ''real'' Thais that you allude to?

Sent from my GT-S7270 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Your are the one who introduced the qualifier "real".

If you know Thai history encompassing the last 900 hundred years, you would know the answer. Do your own research and find the answer. Why ask me?

I never wrote real: you did.

I did not qualify at all. You seem to miss the point-''Those are not Thai people'' is a qualification. Using your reasoning process (a period of 900 years): No Americans are American, no Aussies are Australian and we could go on ad infinitum

IMO, and in theory, the people called today Americans and Australians shouldn't indeed be allowed to bear the name, as they are, for 95%+ of them, not part of the 'indigenous' population (american indians, aborigenals). The, violent, murderous, 'conquest' of both territories by unscrupulous and greedy invaders, and the wild settlement-occupation-elimination-assimilation, that followed, are some of the darkest pages of the History of mankind, and are way younger than 900years too, isn't it? And when 900years would be too long a time in your opinion, you should stay in your logic, and go explain to the world that the state of Israel has no legitimacy, as the claim on that side dates back to the start of the diaspora, about 2,000years ago...!

[anon676545345]

Poor you. Can you see who is a muslim and who not when you are walking on the street in Bangkok? What do you do when you know someone is a muslim? Torture him or run away, are you scared?

Do you have some perverted feelings, perhaps tingles, when you show a muslim a cartoon of their Holy Prophet? Or do you enjoy to provoke people.

How about them showing you a cartoon of your naked mother? Perhaps you would like that too.

You are some weirdo, calling 2.000.000.000(two billion) people in the World terrorists. Why don't you go live in Myanmar instead? They're likeminded.

The supposedly moderate majority of Muslims show their tacit support of their extremist brethren through their silence if they don't ostracize the people who commit offences such as these then they are by definition complicit. Unfortunately for genuinely moderate Muslims the actions of the terrorists in their midst such as executing unarmed women, crucifixions, beheadings, "honor killings" and trying to enforce sharia law galvanize opinion it's hard not to have an opinion when faced with such sub human atrocities.

[jacky54]

@monkeycountry

You

I think it is important to remember that Islam is not just a religion, it is also a political ideology like democracy, communism etc. And it is an ideology that needs to be fought by all means, as it promotes pretty much the direct opposite of democracy and the modern way of life much of the world has fought very hard for over the past few hundred years.

Christianity was very similar 500 or so years ago, and caused lots of harm all over the world. I am quite sure most people today are thankful that we eventually got smarter, and that christianity today is just a "hobby" to most people. Unfortunately it seems many muslims still have 500 years to go.

Me

All creeds and ideologies have sects and splinter groups. The followers of the ideology/creed should not all be judged by the actions of a sect/splinter group.

So Nazism and communism were not so bad then as they had splinter groups and some of them were moderates? Makes no difference, the fact is that Islam is a divisive, hateful and retrograde force in the world responsible for much death and misery. Islam should be judged on what it preaches and what the results are, just be thankful most are too apathetic to carry out it's beliefs and the commands of the Koran.

Edited July 10, 2014 by jacky54

[Albertosez]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thailand should deal with this whilst the Coup is on! It will be too late afterwards. Many countries have the same problem, but Thailand has an ideal opportunity to cleanse itself of these people - as well as the other long list of things that need to be addressed.

When certain dictators decided to conduct some ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe, most onlookers condemned them - maybe rightly so at that time, but we hadn't had 9/11 then and did not know so much about the terrorists that we were facing. We know a lot more now and I wouldn't be so quick to condemn new ethnic cleansing because these cold blooded killers are targeting people like me - who doesn't want to be converted to their religion I - or any religion for that matter. I take each day as it comes, without any religion - so why should I fear for my life ?

I hope I never wake to see a world that does not condem ethnic cleansing (genocidal indiscriminate mass murder).

Where do you think the hate comes from that leads scum like these two to murder in the name of religion?

I hope the scum who murdered these two women are caught and punished, but to justify mass killings based on religion or ethnicity because of their barbaric actions is ridiculous and utterly devoid of any semblance of human feeling or understanding of the horror that the words "ethnic cleansing" represent.

Right! And very often such things are inside jobs - even back in the Wild West, whites would dress up as Sioux or whatever to attack a settler's village of which they knew that the men were out in the fields or hunting, killed women, children and the elderly before they would burn down the place to blame it on the indians. Revenge came swiftly and we know where it all went from there.

I still believe that the majority of muslim people wants nothing but peace and is not interested in forcing their believe on others. These people (for their own sake) should help to fight and expose such culprits, extremists and separatists if they don't want to be pulled under along with them...

"I still believe that the majority of muslim people wants nothing but peace and is not interested in forcing their believe on others."

Do you believe in Santa clause too?

No - but maybe you do ! A minority of 2 Billion people is still a lot of people !

[transam]

Poor you. Can you see who is a muslim and who not when you are walking on the street in Bangkok? What do you do when you know someone is a muslim? Torture him or run away, are you scared?

Do you have some perverted feelings, perhaps tingles, when you show a muslim a cartoon of their Holy Prophet? Or do you enjoy to provoke people.

How about them showing you a cartoon of your naked mother? Perhaps you would like that too.

You are some weirdo, calling 2.000.000.000(two billion) people in the World terrorists. Why don't you go live in Myanmar instead? They're likeminded.

The supposedly moderate majority of Muslims show their tacit support of their extremist brethren through their silence if they don't ostracize the people who commit offences such as these then they are by definition complicit. Unfortunately for genuinely moderate Muslims the actions of the terrorists in their midst such as executing unarmed women, crucifixions, beheadings, "honor killings" and trying to enforce sharia law galvanize opinion it's hard not to have an opinion when faced with such sub human atrocities.

So it is time for the moderates to revolt, to shut down the walking brain dead.

[jacky54]

Some of us would like the tools to deal with these scrotes am sure. This stuff really brings home the true meaning of "cowards"..

Pershing had the right way to deal with Islamists in the philippines, something to do with pigs!

[simple1]

Would Allah really welcome these shits into his paradise?

Not if the words of the Koran are Allah's or indeed if such a being exists. However, I degress, the Koran forbids the killing of women and children, even in time of war.

People will jump up and down and say no, not true you're an apologist, but terrorism is also forbidden; examples:

Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”

http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/islamic-forbids-terrorism.html

[monkeycountry]

This isn't Islamic

It's so Islamic. To anyone who hasn't got his head buried in the sand, that is.

Oh, and not every Muslim is a terrorist.

Right, right. Try showing these non-terrorist Muslims a cartoon of Mohammed and see the reaction

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

Poor you. Can you see who is a muslim and who not when you are walking on the street in Bangkok? What do you do when you know someone is a muslim? Torture him or run away, are you scared?

Do you have some perverted feelings, perhaps tingles, when you show a muslim a cartoon of their Holy Prophet? Or do you enjoy to provoke people.

How about them showing you a cartoon of your naked mother? Perhaps you would like that too.

You are some weirdo, calling 2.000.000.000(two billion) people in the World terrorists. Why don't you go live in Myanmar instead? They're likeminded.

Many, if not most muslims will get very upset, some even violent, when seeing a cartoon of Mohammad, especially a negative one - recent history has proven that I believe. I bet you will be hard pressed to find a christian or buddhist who will get upset if shown a cartoon of god, jesus or buddha negatively depicted - which by the way happens quite frequently in most western newspapers.

Arab newspapers could depict jesus naked with a bomb on his head and a dildo in his ass on the front page every day for a year, and the "story" would barely make the back pages of western newspapers.

[jacky54]

Would Allah really welcome these shits into his paradise?

Not if the words of the Koran are Allah's or indeed if such a being exists. However, I degress, the Koran forbids the killing of women and children, even in time of war.

from the religionofpiece.com the koran encourages killing

Summary Answer:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

The Quran:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

There are many more suras that call for death and violence and more in the Hadith, just see the news any day for the fruits of this

Edited July 10, 2014 by jacky54

[Chicog]

I'm glad they worked out the suspects' motives without any kind of investigation.

Because no-one ever gets killed in Thailand over domestic or business disputes, do they?

[simple1]

Some of us would like the tools to deal with these scrotes am sure. This stuff really brings home the true meaning of "cowards"..

Pershing had the right way to deal with Islamists in the philippines, something to do with pigs!

This myth has been refuted many times, but some people perpetuate the falsehood.

[monkeycountry]

@monkeycountry

You

I think it is important to remember that Islam is not just a religion, it is also a political ideology like democracy, communism etc. And it is an ideology that needs to be fought by all means, as it promotes pretty much the direct opposite of democracy and the modern way of life much of the world has fought very hard for over the past few hundred years.

Christianity was very similar 500 or so years ago, and caused lots of harm all over the world. I am quite sure most people today are thankful that we eventually got smarter, and that christianity today is just a "hobby" to most people. Unfortunately it seems many muslims still have 500 years to go.

Me

All creeds and ideologies have sects and splinter groups. The followers of the ideology/creed should not all be judged by the actions of a sect/splinter group.

I think you will find that many if not most muslims generally follow the "laws" of Islam, it is not just a splinter group - and even worse, unlike ordinary laws, many muslims follow those laws blindly, without even asking themselves why they do it. At least ordinary laws are open to debate and can be changed if the general populace does not agree with them. Try going into the local mosque and suggest changing some of Allahs rules, and see what happens

[Udoth]

Many, if not most muslims will get very upset, some even violent, when seeing a cartoon of Mohammad, especially a negative one - recent history has proven that I believe. I bet you will be hard pressed to find a christian or buddhist who will get upset if shown a cartoon of god, jesus or buddha negatively depicted - which by the way happens quite frequently in most western newspapers.

Arab newspapers could depict jesus naked with a bomb on his head and a dildo in his ass on the front page every day for a year, and the "story" would barely make the back pages of western newspapers.

My advise would be not to show a buddhist degratory cartoons about buddha, you might end up with a bullet if not kicked inside the hospital. Two years ago a German was shot by a Thai for only giving a middle finger.

Christians > genocides, crusades. Just combine Iraq and Vietnam, more than muslims killed throughout the whole history of Islam already.

Atheists are not really good with society either, things they do to children is well known but a taboo to talk about. How about China, North Korea?

So... your point went down the drain.

Just stop being against whole groups of people, even though its very difficult to do. Every person is unique by themselves.

[Bluespunk]

@jacky54

You

So Nazism and communism were not so bad then as they had splinter groups and some of them were moderates? Makes no difference, the fact is that Islam is a divisive, hateful and retrograde force in the world responsible for much death and misery. Islam should be judged on what it preaches and what the results are, just be thankful most are too apathetic to carry out it's beliefs and the commands of the Koran.

Me

Oh dear.

Nazism was an ideology based on nationalism and racist views of racial superiority which was blended with bastardised ideas of socialism. It was nothing but a philosophy of hate which only came about because of the economic crisis of the 1920s and 30s. It was however a splinter from mainstream nationalism, not a unique Philosophy. It had its own belief system but none of it was coherent or made any sense.

Communism, is a term used to cover a wide range of philosophies and political movements. Just as Christianity covers a wide range of sects. Communism has many interpretations, it all depends on the communist.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Bluespunk

[a99az]

Now would be a great time for the Army to purge the south of its Muslims. Turn the tables and take the war to them now while you can.

[monkeycountry]

I'm glad they worked out the suspects' motives without any kind of investigation.

Because no-one ever gets killed in Thailand over domestic or business disputes, do they?

No, I do not think 2 innocent schoolgirls have ever been killed outside their home over a domestic or business dispute in Thailand. If it has indeed happened, I bet it is an extremely rare occurence. On the other hand, innocent schoolgirls killed in the name of Islam happens daily in this world. Check out Nigeria if in doubt.

Edited July 10, 2014 by monkeycountry

[Bluespunk]

@monkeycountry

You

I think you will find that many if not most muslims generally follow the "laws" of Islam, it is not just a splinter group - and even worse, unlike ordinary laws, many muslims follow those laws blindly, without even asking themselves why they do it. At least ordinary laws are open to debate and can be changed if the general populace does not agree with them. Try going into the local mosque and suggest changing some of Allahs rules, and see what happens

Me

My point was that those who use violence to further their warped views are not followers of mainstream Islam but splinter groups.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Bluespunk

[monkeycountry]

Many, if not most muslims will get very upset, some even violent, when seeing a cartoon of Mohammad, especially a negative one - recent history has proven that I believe. I bet you will be hard pressed to find a christian or buddhist who will get upset if shown a cartoon of god, jesus or buddha negatively depicted - which by the way happens quite frequently in most western newspapers.

Arab newspapers could depict jesus naked with a bomb on his head and a dildo in his ass on the front page every day for a year, and the "story" would barely make the back pages of western newspapers.

My advise would be not to show a buddhist degratory cartoons about buddha, you might end up with a bullet if not kicked inside the hospital. Two years ago a German was shot by a Thai for only giving a middle finger.

Christians > genocides, crusades. Just combine Iraq and Vietnam, more than muslims killed throughout the whole history of Islam already.

Atheists are not really good with society either, things they do to children is well known but a taboo to talk about. How about China, North Korea?

So... your point went down the drain.

Just stop being against whole groups of people, even though its very difficult to do. Every person is unique by themselves.

There are plenty of negative buddhist cartoons around, google is your friend - noone seems to be fighting over them though.

You seem to have a problem distinguishing general attacks with individual face to face attacks. If someone gives someone else the middle finger on the street, then obviously there is trouble those 2 between, same goes if you say something bad about someones mother to his face, I do not understand the comparison.

I agree, as I have already mentioned in another post in this thread, that christianity caused lots of trouble in the past, such as the crusades and lots of other stuff. Fortunately we, at least in the western world, became wiser over the past 500 years or so.

I was not aware the wars in Vietnam and Iraq were related to christianity, please enlighten me?

I am unaware of what atheists do to children, that everyone else does not do too, again, please enlighten me?

Anyway, I do not support christianity, but christianity is no longer a threat, as it has very little if any influence on anything today. Christianity will eventually vanish completely once more and more people become properly educated.

[Udoth]

from the religionofpiece.com the koran encourages killing

religionofpiece.com is a hatesite made by jews and twisted all Quranic verses, or 'forgot' to mention the contexts or subjects, just a few examples:

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

2:216 Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.

This is followed by saying something about expulsion of muslims.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

This is about Allah giving His punishment and not telling a muslim to hurt anyone.

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

The translation is different; We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.

For example, you are associating terrorism with Allah, terror is (to be) casted into your hearts by Allah, not by muslims.

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

They’re being a liar by leaving out the point, named in Quran (4:75)

And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?"

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Again they are leaving out things to make their false point.

This verse is followed by 4:90: Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people.

Just stop taking stuff from hatesites.

[Udoth]

1. Fortunately we, at least in the western world, became wiser over the past 500 years or so.

2. I was not aware the wars in Vietnam and Iraq were related to christianity, please enlighten me?

1. Tell that to the millions of families the Western world destroyed in the last 50 years, I'm pretty sure they will disagree.

2. I was not aware that the Thai seperatist movements attacks were related to islam, please enlighten me?