Second man charged in train murder

[ClutchClark]

Is being drunk on the job generally accepted? There was an elderly teacher who reeked of booze at 8 am. Seems everyone, students and staff knew about it.

Is this how that's handled over here?

Banning the sale of beer will likely cost a lot of jobs. Will those who like to have a beer bring it onto the trains in brown paper bags?

Instead, they should hunt down Meth dealers. The crazed murderer was not just drunk but also high on Meth, wasn't he?!?

If sniffer dogs were taken aboard to do a 'walk through' before the train left, they would have found these drug taking crew members.

Yes and about 100 other positive users as well...

[mrdome]

Am I the only one wondering why this post hasn't brought out 'the usual comments' that foreigners and an underage victim tend to do?

What a terrible thing to happen! Not much worse than to discover the total disregard for another person's life suddenly arise against you. Thankfully, most of us know not to go there.

IMHO, strict supervision of the staff is the only real long term solution. The "women only" carriages may prove unpopular over time again after a while.

Edited July 12, 2014 by mrdome

[oldsailor35]

Is being drunk on the job generally accepted? There was an elderly teacher who reeked of booze at 8 am. Seems everyone, students and staff knew about it.

Is this how that's handled over here?

Banning the sale of beer will likely cost a lot of jobs. Will those who like to have a beer bring it onto the trains in brown paper bags?

Instead, they should hunt down Meth dealers. The crazed murderer was not just drunk but also high on Meth, wasn't he?!?

If sniffer dogs were taken aboard to do a 'walk through' before the train left, they would have found these drug taking crew members.

Yes and about 100 other positive users as well...

I daresay you are right. This is the purpose of the exercise is'nt it. They should then be taken off the train and off to jail.

[wabothai]

Measures to have women carriages only and forbidden sale of beer is very bad PR for an already battered tourism. (Daily nighttains to north and south with many farang tourists).

There are plenty of other ways to garantee safety.

They were employees weren't they ?

May be we have to take the bus now.

[davidmann]

they did have soldiers on the overnight trains in 1970 ,trains are about the only thing that has not changed in time in thailand ,about time they did ,

[louse1953]

How about hiring someone to be on every car whose duty it is to make sure all passengers are safe from violence? How about screening everyone they hire to make sure they don't have a criminal background? How about random drug testing for employees? .

CCTV is also a good option. Most public transport in Europe has it, even on the buses.

Tv has never stopped a crime,just helps in capture.

[Skywalker69]

I hope this second accused does not get placed in with the general population in prison. He'd last about twenty minutes before they ate him alive.

I hope this second accused does not get placed in with the general population in prison....Better.

[Robby nz]

We've all seen the pics of him... not exactly Arnie is he?

I think it's clearly cut that in no way, alone, could he have lifted a cadaver. He had to have been helped.

DNA screeing needs to be done in-depth (to excuse the Freudian) on this young lady's body, to trace all the culprits. I believe the whole lot will be caught up in this scheme, and indeed partook in it.

The windows are almost the full length of the bottom bunk with the sill not that high above the bunk. He would not have had to have lifted the body, only the head and shoulders or feet and legs then pushed her body over the sill, she was only 13 remember.

What would you think forensics would be looking for in the case of a rape victim ? I doubt they need anyone to tell them their job.

Well in BKK the chief of forensics identified that a spanner found in the pocket of a victim suggested he was a mechanic. Remember that one?

I believe they need a lot of help, in all honesty.

Only aged 13 has nothing to do with cadaver weight (believe me, a dead body is very heavy - re morgue experience), especially when taking into consideration that 2 other members of the family were 'asleep' in the same compartment, alledgedly! No noise? No shuffling? No breeze?

You have very obviously never been in one of these 2nd class sleeper carriages have you, nor have you read the OP,s properly.

You can believe all you want but until you actually go into one the carriages and one of the bottom bunks then you will never know how easy it would be to push the recently killed pliable body of a young girl out the window.

In the original OP he is recorded as saying he opened the window to cover any noise, but as you have never travelled in one of these trains you would not know how much noise or breeze there is with the window open.

I have travelled on these trains many times in both the top and bottom bunk on different trips and can tell you there are no compartments only a single carriage with seats on both sides that convert into bunks for sleeping.

Her older sister was sleeping in the top bunk above her no allegedly about it.

[FangFerang]

This story is profoundly sad. Profoundly.

I am short on compassion for these men. Actually, I have almost none.

How can a sane man respond to this--anger? vindication? revenge?

I feel sorry for the girl, her last thoughts must have been unequivocal despair...

I am short on compassion for these men.

Sorrow on sorrow....

fools.

Edited July 12, 2014 by FangFerang

[Jeremy50]

We've all seen the pics of him... not exactly Arnie is he?

I think it's clearly cut that in no way, alone, could he have lifted a cadaver. He had to have been helped.

DNA screeing needs to be done in-depth (to excuse the Freudian) on this young lady's body, to trace all the culprits. I believe the whole lot will be caught up in this scheme, and indeed partook in it.

The windows are almost the full length of the bottom bunk with the sill not that high above the bunk. He would not have had to have lifted the body, only the head and shoulders or feet and legs then pushed her body over the sill, she was only 13 remember.

What would you think forensics would be looking for in the case of a rape victim ? I doubt they need anyone to tell them their job.

Well in BKK the chief of forensics identified that a spanner found in the pocket of a victim suggested he was a mechanic. Remember that one?

I believe they need a lot of help, in all honesty.

Only aged 13 has nothing to do with cadaver weight (believe me, a dead body is very heavy - re morgue experience), especially when taking into consideration that 2 other members of the family were 'asleep' in the same compartment, alledgedly! No noise? No shuffling? No breeze?

You have very obviously never been in one of these 2nd class sleeper carriages have you, nor have you read the OP,s properly.

You can believe all you want but until you actually go into one the carriages and one of the bottom bunks then you will never know how easy it would be to push the recently killed pliable body of a young girl out the window.

In the original OP he is recorded as saying he opened the window to cover any noise, but as you have never travelled in one of these trains you would not know how much noise or breeze there is with the window open.

I have travelled on these trains many times in both the top and bottom bunk on different trips and can tell you there are no compartments only a single carriage with seats on both sides that convert into bunks for sleeping.

Her older sister was sleeping in the top bunk above her no allegedly about it.

It would have been quite possible. The lower bunk is also more spacious than the upper, and has lights that can be turned off, and the window can be opened. There is complete privacy when the curtain is pulled across. The smaller upper bunk is lit by a ceiling light that can't be turned off, and there is no window. The noise of the train would have muffled sounds. If the girl had been on the top bunk, this atrocious crime would not have been possible.

[easton]

So they use a women only car, will that really help? The person (or persons) responsible for this crime were employees of the train company and not regular passengers so they would have access to that car, conceivably for a number of legitimate reasons. Unless they are only going to allow women employees to work that car it will not solve the problem IMHP.

[ClutchClark]

they did have soldiers on the overnight trains in 1970 ,trains are about the only thing that has not changed in time in thailand ,about time they did ,

Can anyone tell me how this violent crime was going to avoided by having soldiers or police on the train?

The assailant had a right to be on the train.

The assailant had a right to be in the carriage.

Are all of you suggesting that a soldier or police officer patrol up and down the aisles in each carriage and constantly observe every passenger?

And all of you think thats going to help encourage people to ride the train?

[joejai]

Once again it's the usual Thai reaction to a horrific and disgraceful act of inhumanity. A 13 year old girl had her life snuffed out by a low life individual - and it's..... "ban this and ban that time again." Where were the train staff? I find it hard to believe no body on board the train heard a thing. Get the proper security on board the trains - that's what needs to be done.

[tomyummer]

Wife says that many Thais who kill others believe that they are giving them a better life when they are reborn.

Explains a lot as to why life is cheap here.

I'm guilty as sin myself then. All the corrupt and greedy Thai politicians are my fault. I killed many cockroaches over my lifetime.

[surangw]

15 days to print up women only signs for the over night cars ?

[96tehtarp]

Can anyone tell me how this violent crime was going to avoided by having soldiers or police on the train?

The assailant had a right to be on the train.

The assailant had a right to be in the carriage.

Are all of you suggesting that a soldier or police officer patrol up and down the aisles in each carriage and constantly observe every passenger?

Police patrols on the train would hopefully make it more difficult for the crew to consume alcohol and use methamphetamine. Staff, although it is their duty to be on the train and in the carriage, don't have a right to get drunk and stoned while on duty.

Drunkenness is quite easy to spot and alcohol has an easily recognizable odor. Once someone has come into contact with a speed user who is high and seen what their eyes look like and how they behave, that too is easy to spot. These two things are part of police basic training. They all get it.They all come into contact on a nearly daily basis with drunk people and people who are tweaked out on meth and know what somebody high on ya ba looks like. (At least I'd like to think so).

The confession made by the alleged murderer included the details that he had already taken three speed tablets by the time the train had reached Surat Thani. He would have been bouncing off the walls and ceiling, high as a kite, and drunk too. A cop should have been able to spot that. (Wishful thinking, I'll admit it).

The railway police are supposed to be on every train anyway. It's not new. Nothing has been said yet AFAIK, as to why there were none on the night concerned.

[ClutchClark]

Can anyone tell me how this violent crime was going to avoided by having soldiers or police on the train?

The assailant had a right to be on the train.

The assailant had a right to be in the carriage.

Are all of you suggesting that a soldier or police officer patrol up and down the aisles in each carriage and constantly observe every passenger?

Police patrols on the train would hopefully make it more difficult for the crew to consume alcohol and use methamphetamine. Staff, although it is their duty to be on the train and in the carriage, don't have a right to get drunk and stoned while on duty.

Drunkenness is quite easy to spot and alcohol has an easily recognizable odor. Once someone has come into contact with a speed user who is high and seen what their eyes look like and how they behave, that too is easy to spot. These two things are part of police basic training. They all get it.They all come into contact on a nearly daily basis with drunk people and people who are tweaked out on meth and know what somebody high on ya ba looks like. (At least I'd like to think so).

The confession made by the alleged murderer included the details that he had already taken three speed tablets by the time the train had reached Surat Thani. He would have been bouncing off the walls and ceiling, high as a kite, and drunk too. A cop should have been able to spot that. (Wishful thinking, I'll admit it).

The railway police are supposed to be on every train anyway. It's not new. Nothing has been said yet AFAIK, as to why there were none on the night concerned.

I have not read any explanation released as to why Railway Police were not onboard the train that night when they were scheduled to be. It would be even more interesting to see if the assigned officer attempted to claim wages for a shift he was not covering.

I understand fully the abilities of a police officer in recognizing drug and alcohol abuse. What you are suggesting is that every employee of the train be inspected regularly during the 12-18 hour shift and subject to a drug/alcohol test at any time a railway police officer is suspicious. I have seen people on yaba. I have seen people on several cans of Red Bull and I have seen people that have consumed several espressos. It is not so easy to differentiate the reason for an anxious state as you suggest. And as any chronic alcoholic on TV will tell you, there are alcohols that will not emit the smell of beer and are more difficult to detect.

However, I would agree that a railway police officer would be able to deter SRT personnel from loitering in the Dining Car and drinking. Unfortunately, who is going to keep the police officer from their typical habit of sitting in the Dining Car and drinking? Or turning a blind eye for a few Baht?

These are all good ideas on the surface; however, they are not as easy to execute as they first appear.

Personally, I am in no way convinced this assailant would not have committed this criminal act had he not been drunk or stoned. He was a serial rapist.

[techboy]

Wife says that many Thais who kill others believe that they are giving them a better life when they are reborn.

Explains a lot as to why life is cheap here.

Not to be rude but Somebody get a stage hook or something! get this guy outta' here!!!

[fish fingers]

It cd well be that this 19 yr old who was drinking with his colleague really thought it was all talk and didn't think it was serious - he's suddenly gone from being a useful witness to being implicated and charged.

I hope he has a good lawyer

[tonyboy33]

'Women only cars'? What a joke. The murderer/rapist was an employee, and drunk. So the brilliant management decides to solve the problem by segregating women and disallowing alcohol or beer consumption by passengers on trains. I see nothing about having 'women only maintenance staff' for the 'women only cars'! They might consider that.

I'm glad, however, that the head of Thai Rail has been removed from his job by the Army. Hopefully he'll be replaced, as will others, by people who are not so clueless and can focus on real solutions, real HR policies, real employee training and supervision.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

How can a sane man respond to this--anger? vindication? revenge?

When a child has been killed, burning with those emotions won't bring the child back. They will be why the next child dies. They distract from what matters. There has never been warrant for revenge. There has never been need for justice (revenge, by another name). There's no reason for reprisals, punishment or deterrence because there is no profit in Crimes of Passion. To punish what is insane is insane. It only serves to confuse broken humans, making them imagine killing children is sane.

By definition, Crimes of Passion are fuelled by corrupted / confused passion. Rage, madness, fury, hate; we are emotionally degraded and we're degrading our children during early childhood (their formative years). Unless you intend to argue that killing children is in the killer's best interests, you must concede insanity is to blame. Actions which do not serve our interests can only be conducted when we're out of our minds (to varying degrees, we are all out of our minds almost all of the time; no one is acting in their best interests).

Killers of children must be assisted to the next stage of their existence as a humane act, conducted not with vindictive outrage, fury, anger or piety but with sombre apology, remorse, regret and sadness. The truth Society doesn't want to accept but cannot refute is this:

When a product of Society kills, Society did the killing. We are all to blame every time.

When one hurts the collective, they hurt themselves. One only betrays themselves when the collective has betrayed them. When children die, everyone pays the price...twice. Two (2) victims, the killer and the killed. In a world of denial, limited liability and blame avoidance, Society always blames its victims for Society's crimes.

Children are not born insane. No child dreams of being a killer, rapist, paedophile or priest one day. Every Society deserves the monsters they create. We imagine we're oh-so-shrewd with our lies, shame, violence and neglect. We use children as poison containers for our emotional waste. We dump all our shit on them. But what doesn't kill children doesn't make them stronger.

It makes them killers. We make them kill us.

Edited July 15, 2014 by TheyCallmeScooter