Foreigners urged to convey 'better understanding' of Thai politics

[jcisco]

I formulated a post of some length to reply to the OP, and decided to delete it. frack it....

How to explain to the world that thailand has a weak police force, that fails to protect the people and the peace and uphold the laws fo the nation, leading to an open door policy with the Army to step in..... It will happen again and again and again, so get used to, and understand its not a coup its a hostile takeover of upper management.

I wish everyone all the best in this hostile job market

The job application didn't quite work out as you had hoped? Retire,its so much easier.

Mate, i'm there already, However that part i was talking figuratively, gah redundant and superfluous, sorry.

[soalbundy]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent people who are thinking of awful people they've observed. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of those people here who talk about the 'undesirables', are in Thailand thsmselves because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. That they don't admit it here, means nothing. It is a statistical FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while claiming routinely that they, themselves are somehow 'vicitimized' by these young people - that these young people 'only want your money' - to be profoundly immoral. Of course they 'only want your money' - that's called their survival, and the only option they have.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! But that would be a huge threat to most of these voices . That would empower those people who are prayed upon here. I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? NO. Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people as soon as possible? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak moral excuse, to say the least. And at best, most of you represent the worst a western society could offer in that way.

Those of us here who are retired and they are many here,have worked hard and long all our lives and now you want us to cry tears of blood for the injustices done here that started way before our time. We have no power here to change things nor the means to do so,we play the system that's in place. I don't see how i am living a life style at the expense of anyone,in fact if it wasn't for my income a lot of people in my family would be in dire poverty instead of getting a university education,motorbikes,air-con bedrooms,good food and generally a decent life style.

[Emster23]

"My country,U.S.A. only supports countries that are a democracy."

I am an American, born and bred. Is this a troll bait? Does this guy only watch Fox? That belief is pure horse poop, historically and currently. Best example now is US support of thugs in Egypt. Far, far worse than anything the junta has done here. No comparison.

I would also guess that foreigners know more about (or could know more about) real Thai situation because of free press and junta not yet censoring English/foreign media feeds. Thais just don't seem to understand that we don't suck up to our supposed "superiors", nod our heads in agreement to whatever line they hand out that day, then turn off our minds.

[John1thru10]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of them are here because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. This is a FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while making negative remarks about all those people, claiming constantly that they are 'vicitimized' by Thai people if they happen to have a discrepancy over a few baht or the like, to be profoundly immoral.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak excuse, to say the least, in order to avoid any type of self reflection or honesty from most voices here.

" I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine," prove it. These are easy words for you to say, but can you back it up. In what area of "work" are you talking about. I know many western police that work harder than Thai police, pollies who work harder than thais, farmers who work hard etc.... in fact, I think many readers could give examples of "lazy" thai workers.

You're utterly blind to say you need 'proof' of that. They are working all around you, every day. They are your maids, the gardeners who manicure your environment, your security guard, the people reparing houses across the soi, cooking your food, bringing you your beer....I could go on and on. Sociopathic of you, in fact, to not have noticed their struggles behind those smiles by now. Or, do you actually believe they find it a pleasure to serve you?

When you characterize 'lazy Thai people', is speaks to your racism. And is a justification you make for taking advantage. And, you conveniently overlook the salary aspect, I notice. Let me guess, you blame the poor for their own low salaries, as well.

Racism would be "IF" I said "ALL" Thais, I did not say ALL, get it right. I agree Thais do work...what I commented on was you saying "who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine" which is utter BS, it is you sir, who seems to be "blind". All those occupations you mentioned are also done by many western people in their own country. As for "salary" well it is the Thai government's policy not to encourage paying higher, otherwise it will start a, "local" wage war... we as foreigners do not set national wages. I suggest if you are going to debate, make sure you are smart enough to back up what you say, there are many readers who read these posts.

Here come all the typical excuses now, relying on the dissection of your semantics, in order to avoid. As if your original statement were nuanced somehow, which is was not. You also purposely overlooked the majority of the statement, and chose to focus instead on one word - arguing it to death. Another typical display of those who seek to avoid an idea rather than dealing with it. Sorry if that upsets you.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[soalbundy]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of them are here because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. This is a FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while making negative remarks about all those people, claiming constantly that they are 'vicitimized' by Thai people if they happen to have a discrepancy over a few baht or the like, to be profoundly immoral.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak excuse, to say the least, in order to avoid any type of self reflection or honesty from most voices here.

" I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine," prove it. These are easy words for you to say, but can you back it up. In what area of "work" are you talking about. I know many western police that work harder than Thai police, pollies who work harder than thais, farmers who work hard etc.... in fact, I think many readers could give examples of "lazy" thai workers.

You're utterly blind to say you need 'proof' of that. They are working all around you, every day. They are your maids, the gardeners who manicure your environment, your security guard, the people reparing houses across the soi, cooking your food, bringing you your beer....I could go on and on. Sociopathic of you, in fact, to not have noticed their struggles behind those smiles by now. Or, do you actually believe they find it a pleasure to serve you?

When you characterize 'lazy Thai people', is speaks to your racism. And is a justification you make for taking advantage. And, you conveniently overlook the salary aspect, I notice. Let me guess, you blame the poor for their own low salaries, as well.

OK, we recognize how poor they are and how hard they work, now what do you want us to do? Believing in Jesus is one thing,wanting his job is another. Stop bringing out the racist card,it's racist this, racist that, these days,who cares some people are racist,some people ultra liberal, get over it. Who are you to decide if someone is a sociopath ( There is no such word as sociopathic,get your maid to bring you over a dictionery)

[wabothai]

Mr.Tang i tried, but my government is not interested in my opinion,

Neither is the thai government.

[jcisco]

I formulated a post of some length to reply to the OP, and decided to delete it. frack it....

How to explain to the world that thailand has a weak police force, that fails to protect the people and the peace and uphold the laws fo the nation, leading to an open door policy with the Army to step in..... It will happen again and again and again, so get used to, and understand its not a coup its a hostile takeover of upper management.

I wish everyone all the best in this hostile job market

I totally and utterly disagree with your comments and others voiced here. It is true that there are many things that ought to be corrected and put in order in Thailand, which can make this beautiful country one of the "pearls of the east". It is practically self sufficient, has many skilled people, and offers a lot of opportunities for people abiding the laws. However, many things, including plundring this country, misusing and not abiding the laws, distorting the educational system and others, that the present Military rulers are now trying to correct. Some of the positive actions are already visible and one can only hope that they will continue with their positive efforts until such time as this society is healed from some of its ills and can return to a democracy. Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended in order to replace chaos by a properly functioning democracy. I do believe that this is what is happening in Thailand now.

So to be totally clear: You utterly disagree with my comments regarding the RTP. The police were so on top of doing their duty, the army came out to help and take over due to all the issues at hand violence protests etc etc. for which the RTP is duty bound to be on top of.

Basically the reasons given for the coup are a really directly linked to a dereliction by the police to their duty. So the situation got to look so bad, the amry came in, and rather than point figures at the real reason they did what did, everyone is focusing on bleating on about corruption and Positive Visible actions that DO NOT rectify a systemic failure of a key part of the community and therefore the social contract between everyone else being worthless.

I dunno maybe I am aiming way way way over your head on this, I can barely be bothered to type on it. its hard to be succinct, when anything more complex than VISIBLE actions require spelling it out.

Anyways, you guys keep rocking the positive actions and the like that is just such a change, and revolutionary in thai politics. its a damn circle jerk, In reality its a really simple problem. and it aint being addressed.

bleh.... magic of politics still appears confuse the farangs as much as the poor Thai people, who need to be told how its gonna go..

bah i'm done.

[John1thru10]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent people who are thinking of awful people they've observed. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of those people here who talk about the 'undesirables', are in Thailand thsmselves because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. That they don't admit it here, means nothing. It is a statistical FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while claiming routinely that they, themselves are somehow 'vicitimized' by these young people - that these young people 'only want your money' - to be profoundly immoral. Of course they 'only want your money' - that's called their survival, and the only option they have.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! But that would be a huge threat to most of these voices . That would empower those people who are prayed upon here. I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? NO. Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people as soon as possible? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak moral excuse, to say the least. And at best, most of you represent the worst a western society could offer in that way.

Those of us here who are retired and they are many here,have worked hard and long all our lives and now you want us to cry tears of blood for the injustices done here that started way before our time. We have no power here to change things nor the means to do so,we play the system that's in place. I don't see how i am living a life style at the expense of anyone,in fact if it wasn't for my income a lot of people in my family would be in dire poverty instead of getting a university education,motorbikes,air-con bedrooms,good food and generally a decent life style.

"Those of us here who are retired and they are many here,have worked hard and long all our lives and now you want us to cry tears of blood for the injustices done here that started way before our time." - I see. Did you work 'long and hard' for 5k baht a month? No. If a poor Thai person works as hard as you over their lives, are they then afforded a chance to go retire in your home country? No. And did you ignore every other aspect of what I said, and focus instead on finding justifications for the suffering of others, and express an utter lack of concern for others as well? Yes.

i don't care if you worked hard or not, because you state directly that what you have 'earned', is the right to ignore the suffering of others, and that is not a respectable attitude. You can't even take a moment to address the most important aspects of what I mentioned, and focus only on justifying yourself. And - most importantly - IF you are a person who actually tries to support the idea that the actions of the Junta are to improve things for most Thai people, harping on those memes as if they really addressed any of the problems that Thai people face every day - which most people here do each and every day - then you are being purposely blind to your surroundings. And no, I don't respect that. It's not that you should 'cry tears of blood'. That's laughable. It's that you should focus more on the real problems that the people around you face, instead of just congratulating yourself. I guess that basic principle remains beyond you, however. You can't even take a moment to acknowledge it.

I just came home after speaking to a woman who - on her own, after the death of her husband a decade ago - is trying to put two children through universities, on the salarie she makes from working at a food stand. When I said 'Universitry expensive'...the look on her face said it all. Do you really believe that woman's main problem is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? And, if you had to put those kids through unversities by doing what she is forced to, I tell you what...THAT's when you'd be crying tears of blood, buddy.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[soalbundy]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent people who are thinking of awful people they've observed. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of those people here who talk about the 'undesirables', are in Thailand thsmselves because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. That they don't admit it here, means nothing. It is a statistical FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while claiming routinely that they, themselves are somehow 'vicitimized' by these young people - that these young people 'only want your money' - to be profoundly immoral. Of course they 'only want your money' - that's called their survival, and the only option they have.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! But that would be a huge threat to most of these voices . That would empower those people who are prayed upon here. I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? NO. Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people as soon as possible? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak moral excuse, to say the least. And at best, most of you represent the worst a western society could offer in that way.

Those of us here who are retired and they are many here,have worked hard and long all our lives and now you want us to cry tears of blood for the injustices done here that started way before our time. We have no power here to change things nor the means to do so,we play the system that's in place. I don't see how i am living a life style at the expense of anyone,in fact if it wasn't for my income a lot of people in my family would be in dire poverty instead of getting a university education,motorbikes,air-con bedrooms,good food and generally a decent life style.

"Those of us here who are retired and they are many here,have worked hard and long all our lives and now you want us to cry tears of blood for the injustices done here that started way before our time." - I see. Did you work 'long and hard' for 5k baht a month? No. If a poor Thai person works as hard as you over their lives, are they then afforded a chance to go retire in your home country? No. And did you ignore every other aspect of what I said, and focus instead on finding justifications for the suffering of others, and express an utter lack of concern for others as well? Yes.

i don't care if you worked hard or not. You view Thailand only in terms of something you've (supposedly) 'earned' - You state directly that you have 'earned' the right to ignore the suffering of others, and that is a horrible attitude. And - most importantly in my statement, and the part you chose to ignore - IF you are a person who actually tries to support the idea that the actions are to improve things for most Thai people, harping on those memes as if they really addressed any of the problems that Thai people face every day - which most people here do each and every day - then you are being purposely blind to your surroundings. And no, I don't respect that. It's not that you should 'cry tears of blood'. That's laughable. It's that you should focus more on the real problems that the people around you face, instead of just congratulating yourself for having come from more privilege. I'll guess that's beyond you.

Why should i contemplate the suffering when i can do nothing about it? My Thai family,especially my two step daughters have a new world opened up to them since 8 years,my oldest goes to university paid for by me of course, their Thai father has deserted them. I do what i can within my capabilities without expecting anything back and without crying crocodile tears all over TV as you seem to like to do. What have you personally done to alleviate the suffering of the down trodden poor ? Nothing except open your bleeding heart.

I didn't work for 5k a month because my forefathers fought for social justice at risk to life and limb but that isn't very Thai is it,get an amulet and pray for the lottery numbers. No farang owes any obligation to the Thai poor.

[Thai at Heart]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent people who are thinking of awful people they've observed. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of those people here who talk about the 'undesirables', are in Thailand thsmselves because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. That they don't admit it here, means nothing. It is a statistical FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while claiming routinely that they, themselves are somehow 'vicitimized' by these young people - that these young people 'only want your money' - to be profoundly immoral. Of course they 'only want your money' - that's called their survival, and the only option they have.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! But that would be a huge threat to most of these voices . That would empower those people who are prayed upon here. I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? NO. Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people as soon as possible? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak moral excuse, to say the least. And at best, most of you represent the worst a western society could offer in that way.

Indeed. Thailand is one of the most divided societies there is, and it does only survive by putting people in their place and making them stay here.

I note the continuous story of the rice mess as a perfect example of where this has gone wrong.

The rice industry history was that up until 1950 or so Thailand was not a massive producer of rice. But with the advent of modern government (partially) and the interests of development, they decided to chase the rice crop as something that could earn the country an awful lot of wonga. Money was put in, investments made by (Thai chinese) companies and the production grew. But all exports had a tax placed on them, and this wedge was used to build the country. There was a natural synergy of progress recognising the contribution of the farmers. This tax was removed in the 80's and the true free commercialisation of rice progressed, and Thailand proudly took over the mantle of largest rice exporter in the world by a couple of decades ago.

To who's benefit? It is written here there and everywhere that Thailand must be so proud of this fact. It is apparently a point of national honor. And yet, there are still to this day, millions of rice farmers in poverty. Who precisely did this benefit? Which end of society got anything out of this deverlopment? So now they are faced with actually, reducing what they grow. But alas, the money has not flowed down into the villages, it has been concentrated into the hands of the few (who sit atop the list of wealthiest "thais"), whilst many lilve in poverty. it is one thing to build an empire. it is another thing to do it when your main employees live on the bread line. How much profit have these companies squeezed out of this rice export buisiness for nearly 2 decades now?

Without this enormous poor workforce, none of the wealth in that one industry would have ever occurred. And when the villages finally die, I am sure these so called Thai agribusiness companies will buy up all the land, and continue to export, all in the name of Thai natioanl pride. Yuck.....

[Paulzed]

i think they know already that the full political system in thailand is corrupt

Is there any Country on this planet that the political system isn't?

[John1thru10]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of them are here because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. This is a FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while making negative remarks about all those people, claiming constantly that they are 'vicitimized' by Thai people if they happen to have a discrepancy over a few baht or the like, to be profoundly immoral.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak excuse, to say the least, in order to avoid any type of self reflection or honesty from most voices here.

" I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine," prove it. These are easy words for you to say, but can you back it up. In what area of "work" are you talking about. I know many western police that work harder than Thai police, pollies who work harder than thais, farmers who work hard etc.... in fact, I think many readers could give examples of "lazy" thai workers.

You're utterly blind to say you need 'proof' of that. They are working all around you, every day. They are your maids, the gardeners who manicure your environment, your security guard, the people reparing houses across the soi, cooking your food, bringing you your beer....I could go on and on. Sociopathic of you, in fact, to not have noticed their struggles behind those smiles by now. Or, do you actually believe they find it a pleasure to serve you?

When you characterize 'lazy Thai people', is speaks to your racism. And is a justification you make for taking advantage. And, you conveniently overlook the salary aspect, I notice. Let me guess, you blame the poor for their own low salaries, as well.

OK, we recognize how poor they are and how hard they work, now what do you want us to do? Believing in Jesus is one thing,wanting his job is another. Stop bringing out the racist card,it's racist this, racist that, these days,who cares some people are racist,some people ultra liberal, get over it. Who are you to decide if someone is a sociopath ( There is no such word as sociopathic,get your maid to bring you over a dictionery)

That aspect - the racism aspect - is what defensive responders focused on. They IGNORED the larger points, which I think says a lot. My post was largely about the sex industry being utterly ignored (which is something that truly destroys lives), and how education is utterly ignored as well (which is the only solution to the first problem). I did notice, that no one thought to comment about that. Instead, they literally came back with statements about how 'lazy' Thai people are - and yeah, that does smack of racism.

My point, was that the actions of the Junta do not address Thailand's real problems. And to answer your question, what people could DO here, which is at least one small step, is to stop buying the empty propaganda that what people need in Thailand, is to crack down on English teachers who only have a tourist visa. The way people here go on and on about it everyday, it's as if they actually believe that that is some kind of national emergency - and YES, they DO ignore the real problems by doing that. THAT is your answer, right there. You make mocking statements about Jesus, to avoid looking at it. And, I don't find it intelligent or admirable.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[soalbundy]

I don't avoid looking at anything,i am dispassionate about the whole thing. As for the sex industry,it is supply and demand.The girls in the bar that i used to know,and i am still on friendly terms with many ( my nickname for them is jai dee if that's of interest ) seem perfectly happy and many tell me their life is one party,better than working for a living. Get real,this is Thailand not Summerset.

I don't even bleed for my own country,i'm sure not going to bleed for an apathetic nation like Thailand

Edited July 16, 2014 by soalbundy

[soalbundy]

John1thru10...You still haven't said what you do to alleviate suffering, i'm doing my bit, what are you doing besides shouting about social injustice from the roof tops

[John1thru10]

I don't avoid looking at anything,i am dispassionate about the whole thing. As for the sex industry,it is supply and demand.The girls in the bar that i used to know,and i am still on friendly terms with many ( my nickname for them is jai dee if that's of interest ) seem perfectly happy and many tell me their life is one party,better than working for a living. Get real,this is Thailand not Summerset.

I don't even bleed for my own country,i'm sure not going to bleed for an apathetic nation like Thailand

You sound an unobservant person. And incidentally, it's 'supply and demand' based on lack of education and opportunities. Don't use aspects like that in order to delude yourself.

[Rorri]

John1thru10...You still haven't said what you do to alleviate suffering, i'm doing my bit, what are you doing besides shouting about social injustice from the roof tops

He can't answer you because he doesn't do anything but whinge with arguments that don't stand any test.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Rorri

[soalbundy]

I don't avoid looking at anything,i am dispassionate about the whole thing. As for the sex industry,it is supply and demand.The girls in the bar that i used to know,and i am still on friendly terms with many ( my nickname for them is jai dee if that's of interest ) seem perfectly happy and many tell me their life is one party,better than working for a living. Get real,this is Thailand not Summerset.

I don't even bleed for my own country,i'm sure not going to bleed for an apathetic nation like Thailand

You sound an unobservant person. And incidentally, it's 'supply and demand' based on lack of education and opportunities. Don't use aspects like that in order to delude yourself.

And what do you do to alleviate suffering,you wont answer will you

[John1thru10]

I don't avoid looking at anything,i am dispassionate about the whole thing. As for the sex industry,it is supply and demand.The girls in the bar that i used to know,and i am still on friendly terms with many ( my nickname for them is jai dee if that's of interest ) seem perfectly happy and many tell me their life is one party,better than working for a living. Get real,this is Thailand not Summerset.

I don't even bleed for my own country,i'm sure not going to bleed for an apathetic nation like Thailand

You sound like a particularly unobservant person. Didn't notice those thousands of others who you ignored, because they were a couple years over their expiration limit? Oh that's right, a brilliant career is waiting for them at that point - is that your observation? Yes, in your experience (staring only at what you choose to). And incidentally, it's 'supply and demand' based on lack of education and opportunities. Don't use aspects like that in order to delude yourself. If they had a real choice, you would find it more difficult. And that's why you have no problem with it. Your lack of concern for people, is not a justifaction for your lack of concern for people.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[Eurojomtien]

Mr 'John1thru10'... do you think you could perhaps take the time to write shorter posts ? Do you also realize that long-winded, overheated comments and reactions on your part actually weaken your messages ? You have all but hijacked this thread and some of the points you make are sensible, others seem to me far fetched, incomplete or too partisan, but the interesting points are kind of drowned in your verbal excesses.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Eurojomtien

[lvr181]

Farang who is supposed not to understand "thainess" is now suddenly an expert to explain to other farangs outside of the country? Wow! What a turnaround.

[soalbundy]

I don't avoid looking at anything,i am dispassionate about the whole thing. As for the sex industry,it is supply and demand.The girls in the bar that i used to know,and i am still on friendly terms with many ( my nickname for them is jai dee if that's of interest ) seem perfectly happy and many tell me their life is one party,better than working for a living. Get real,this is Thailand not Summerset.

I don't even bleed for my own country,i'm sure not going to bleed for an apathetic nation like Thailand

You sound like a particularly unobservant person. Didn't notice those hundreds of others who you ignored, because they were a couple years over their expiration limit? Oh that's right, a brilliant career is waiting for them at that point - is that your observation? Yes, in your experience (staring only at what you choose to, in order to avoid the far darker side). And incidentally, it's 'supply and demand' based on lack of education and opportunities. Don't use aspects like that in order to delude yourself. If they had a real choice, you would find it more difficult. And that's why you have no problem with it. Your lack of concern for people, is not a justifaction for your lack of concern for people.

They usually have a farang to look after them,or have cheated so many that they have a nice little stock pile somewhere.

WHAT DO YOU DO TO ALLEVIATE THE SUFFERING OF THESE POOR PEOPLE

Edited July 16, 2014 by soalbundy

[John1thru10]

Mr 'John1thru10'... do you think you could perhaps take the time to write shorter posts ? Do you also realize that long-winded, overheated comments and reactions on your part actually weaken your messages ? You have all but hijacked this thread and some of the points you make are sensible, others seem to me far fetched, incomplete or too partisan, but the interesting points are kind of drowned in your verbal excesses.

I'll limit my posts, when I see people limiting their posts about who should be in Thailand or not, while they ignore the real problems that Thaialnd is facing.

[soalbundy]

Mr 'John1thru10'... do you think you could perhaps take the time to write shorter posts ? Do you also realize that long-winded, overheated comments and reactions on your part actually weaken your messages ? You have all but hijacked this thread and some of the points you make are sensible, others seem to me far fetched, incomplete or too partisan, but the interesting points are kind of drowned in your verbal excesses.

I'll limit my posts, when I see people limiting their posts about who should be in Thailand or not, while they ignore the real problems that Thaialnd is facing.

He has probably had a near death experience and knows it all John ought to be in the government. I wish i could be so certain of one thing as he is about everything

[Local Drunk]

The biggest problem in Thailand isn't corruption or a coup; it's greng jai.

[kevozman1]

I honestly do not understand the typists on this message and on thaivisa generally.

Only two of the 23 comments I read were vaguely ok with Thailand; the rest were profoundly dissatisfied and had lots of ideas how it is bad.

Can those typists tell me why, if they dislike Thailand so much, why do they have anything to do with it? Especially why want to live here? And, with every complaint about Thailand faults there are concomitantly a similar number complaining that the visa rules will not allow them to stay here.

It seems more than a little wacky strongly to complain about a place and also to complain that rules keep them from living here. Saying, "Thailand, you are a terrible place and also terrible for keeping me out of Thailand."

Usually, asserting that kind of contradiction inside the same brain is called madness. I could be wrong.

I know that venting is helpful sometimes, but venting as a way of life seems strange.

The problem you are having in understanding that, is because you try to see Thailand as if were a single person. Your assumption which causes your misunderstanding, is that because two people are Thai they both have the same feelings and goals - and in essence, that reflects a type of racism on your part. If you cannot regognize the different aspects of Thailand, and the reasons behind them, then you should not be shaming others for doing so.

Sheesh, why does everything these days you say get deemed 'racist' Is it the hip new trend? Nothing he mentioned is racist. Guess some are still watching too much CNN or FOX???

Oh the war on racism is a very popular trend in many western countries. Not so much to protect the feelings of people from certain ethnic groups but more to create an inferiority complex into the minds of certain races. Typical brainwashing and social engineering, standard shit but with a very powerful tool in television.

[MrY]

That aspect - the racism aspect - is what defensive responders focused on. They IGNORED the larger points, which I think says a lot. My post was largely about the sex industry being utterly ignored (which is something that truly destroys lives), and how education is utterly ignored as well (which is the only solution to the first problem). I did notice, that no one thought to comment about that. Instead, they literally came back with statements about how 'lazy' Thai people are - and yeah, that does smack of racism.

My point, was that the actions of the Junta do not address Thailand's real problems. And to answer your question, what people could DO here, which is at least one small step, is to stop buying the empty propaganda that what people need in Thailand, is to crack down on English teachers who only have a tourist visa. The way people here go on and on about it everyday, it's as if they actually believe that that is some kind of national emergency - and YES, they DO ignore the real problems by doing that. THAT is your answer, right there. You make mocking statements about Jesus, to avoid looking at it. And, I don't find it intelligent or admirable.

John1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10, I don't even know you, but take a chill pill! You've already resorted to calling people "racist" and "sociopathic" for no good reason. I don't know which John you are today, but it's not working real well for you.

[Thaddeus]

The biggest problem in Thailand isn't corruption or a coup; it's greng jai.

Especially when it is undeserved.

[wwest5829]

My country,U.S.A. only supports countries that are a democracy. Thailand is not currently a democracy.

The U.S.A does not support any country that permits slavery. Thailand permits slavery.

What's left to explain?

Oh yeah...come to Thailand and spend your money...but good luck getting a visa!!!!!!!!!!!!

Careful stating what the USA will support. There are, in fact, too many instances in US history where we have and continue to support both non democratic nations/ leaders and countries involved in slavery. I agree that the USA should state its support for restoring a semblance of democracy in Thailand and it's opposition to continued human trafficking in Thailand. Anyone having a halfway decent education knows this.

[wwest5829]

"They certainly want Thailand to move forward to democracy but stability and consistent policy are much more important for doing business," he said.

In other words, money trumps democracy. It couldn't be clearer.

Sounds like home!

[Exsexyman]

My country,U.S.A. only supports countries that are a democracy. Thailand is not currently a democracy.

The U.S.A does not support any country that permits slavery. Thailand permits slavery.

What's left to explain?

Oh yeah...come to Thailand and spend your money...but good luck getting a visa!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean those fine upstanding democracies like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Qatar where the slave labourers building the World Cup stadiums are dropping like flies? Give us a break!