Will the crackdown on Tourist Visas render other visa classes unworkable?

Chaichara · July 17, 2014

There seems to be a lot of speculation in this thread. It remains to be seen from the experience of members who will have gone through the process at Thai consulates to obtain various forms of Non-Imm visa.

That process has certainly also been sharpened up and Non-Imm visa applications in the UK, for example, will now first be submitted by the local consulate to the Thai embassy in London for approval. As a consequence, such applications will no longer be processed while you wait (which used to take only 10 minutes in Birmingham). Visa B applications, whether for working or non-working commercial purposes now need to be supported by a whole host of corporate documents.

See Thai Cosulate, Birmingham.

Pattaya Pat · July 17, 2014

Thailand has been kind enough to enable tourists to enjoy their country for reasonable periods of time,

without onerous amounts of paperwork. The US is not nearly as generous.

Perhaps the media could assist by printing the current rules,

as enforced, instead of the dramatic human interest stories.

It would be beneficial to see the rules and regulations for all visa clases, in a concise and accurate form.

Yes, how kind of them to let tourists in and spend their money. Amazing Thailand indeed.

biggles45 · July 17, 2014

"Why were you denied an entry on your tourist visa and given a visa a 15 day visa exempt entry instead.. I suspect your visa had expired."

And why do you assume that the fault was with the poster and not due to some capricious decision/error of the IO, the bureacracy here is a long way from perfect.

I came into BKK on Sunday night with a 60 day tourist visa obtained in Manila. When I checked he had only given me 30 days, even though the visa number was on the arrival card. I was very polite in pointing out the mistake but he didnt want to admit that he,was wrong!! He changed it, reluctantly, but,I,have always checked after friends have had the same problem

Suradit69 · July 17, 2014

Nope, not me. Never did any of the things in the OP,

Believe it or not, this is not a serious problem. It is certainly not a SERIOUS problem.

No laws have been changed either. But there is a new sheriff in town,

His name is not Barney Fife.

Agree. I used the tourist visa or visa exempt entries when I visited Thailand for short periods as a tourist. When I was ready to retire I got a Non-imm O-A (sometimes incorrectly called the "retirement visa"). Since then I've done the annual extensions of stay. I don't know of anyone else who has had to play games with visa categories to tide them over, although it's not a topic I spend much time discussing with others. I don't think I know anyone who has done visa/border runs to keep renewing their "tourist" status.

I agree with JT that there may be some instances when someone may entirely innocently gets caught up in a Catch-22, but I'm pretty sure many of those situations could have been avoided by a little better understanding of what is needed and some planning ahead. And if you have not been misusing the system I think there are still some work-arounds available. Let's face it, reading some of the threads on TV, there are a lot of people who don't even know the difference between a visa, a visa exempt entry, permission or extension of stay or which applies to them. If it's too much trouble to understand something that basic ...

But it still remains true that the laws were designed to serve Thailand's interests first and not necessarily every possible inconvenience that might be caused to foreigners and more importantly, a lot of the recent crackdowns are a consequence of abuse of the system by some of the same people complaining the loudest now ... as well as others who are now paying for the misbehavior of others.

Pattaya Pat · July 17, 2014

"Why were you denied an entry on your tourist visa and given a visa a 15 day visa exempt entry instead.. I suspect your visa had expired."

And why do you assume that the fault was with the poster and not due to some capricious decision/error of the IO, the bureacracy here is a long way from perfect.

I came into BKK on Sunday night with a 60 day tourist visa obtained in Manila. When I checked he had only given me 30 days, even though the visa number was on the arrival card. I was very polite in pointing out the mistake but he didnt want to admit that he,was wrong!! He changed it, reluctantly, but,I,have always checked after friends have had the same problem

Why is there this theory that you always have to be 'very polite' to immigration bods? You have done nothing wrong and they are not God. Did you call him Sir?

Time Traveller · July 17, 2014

Instead, as per their public statements, the crack-down is to reduce those working illegally in Thailand.

You are mistaken. Their intention is to stop people who are not genuine tourists from entering and living here on visa free or tourist visa entry.

The Labor Dept is responsible for regulating illegal workers and it's their responsibility to raid business that employ people working illegally.

So if people "work offshore" and spend a large proportion of time in thailand by entering and exiting frequently, then yes immigration has these people targeted also.

justjoined · July 17, 2014

I've been here 20 years, previously on Non B and WP, over the last 10 yrs it's been WP and marriage Non O 1 yr extension. The longer I've been married, the harder the extenstions get I find it humiliating presenting photos showing the two of us in our bedroom. There is no need to change laws to make things harder, it's just up to the officer. As I understand it they can refuse without giving a reason. The first year I got the marriage extension it was easy, after a quick interview in Thai, they smiled and gave the visa. In the last 3 years we've been knocked back twice on very small technicalities.

There has been growing resentment of farang since 97, conservative elements would like all of us to leave, whether we are supporting families or employing Thais is irrelevant. A friend was given custody of his Thai son, however there is no longer a provision to grant a non O based on supporting Thai offspring.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not optimistic.

SDM0712 · July 17, 2014

Nope, not me. Never did any of the things in the OP,

Believe it or not, this is not a serious problem. It is certainly not a SERIOUS problem.

No laws have been changed either. But there is a new sheriff in town,

His name is not Barney Fife.

No me either, not once. If ever there was a void between visas due to me needing to get more paperwork etc Immigration always gave me a four week extension to sort it all out. Let's face if most Western countries would behave in a similar way. A tourist visa is intended to be used by a genuine tourist, and nothing else.

SDM

TaoNow · July 17, 2014

_{Time Traveller: The following is from the thread started by George ("out-in"):}

"On May 13, the then-national head of Immigration, Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon explained to The Phuket News, 'Lots of nationalities come to Thailand on tourist visas but they come to work. I really want them to do the right thing, not to try to dodge around the law and evade taxes.'"

NoshowJones · July 17, 2014

Thailand has been kind enough to enable tourists to enjoy their country for reasonable periods of time,

without onerous amounts of paperwork. The US is not nearly as generous.

Perhaps the media could assist by printing the current rules,

as enforced, instead of the dramatic human interest stories.

It would be beneficial to see the rules and regulations for all visa clases, in a concise and accurate form.

That would be a complete waste of time unless the Thai government insisted that all Immigration offices go by the same rules. That is far from the case just now, some IOs will allow this, and some won't, etc etc

A lot also depends on a IOs's mood, what side of the bed he/she got out of that morning. In short, IO's will have to stop having the authority to make up their own rules, and that is never going to happen.

justjoined · July 17, 2014

"Why were you denied an entry on your tourist visa and given a visa a 15 day visa exempt entry instead.. I suspect your visa had expired."

And why do you assume that the fault was with the poster and not due to some capricious decision/error of the IO, the bureacracy here is a long way from perfect.

I came into BKK on Sunday night with a 60 day tourist visa obtained in Manila. When I checked he had only given me 30 days, even though the visa number was on the arrival card. I was very polite in pointing out the mistake but he didnt want to admit that he,was wrong!! He changed it, reluctantly, but,I,have always checked after friends have had the same problem

Why is there this theory that you always have to be 'very polite' to immigration bods? You have done nothing wrong and they are not God. Did you call him Sir?

It's not a theory, being impolite could see them refuse for no reason - they are allowed to. In this guys case even though he was correct the officer was reluctant to change, if he hadn't been polite then he may not have changed it at all.

Pattaya Pat · July 17, 2014

I've been here 20 years, previously on Non B and WP, over the last 10 yrs it's been WP and marriage Non O 1 yr extension. The longer I've been married, the harder the extenstions get I find it humiliating presenting photos showing the two of us in our bedroom. There is no need to change laws to make things harder, it's just up to the officer. As I understand it they can refuse without giving a reason. The first year I got the marriage extension it was easy, after a quick interview in Thai, they smiled and gave the visa. In the last 3 years we've been knocked back twice on very small technicalities.

There has been growing resentment of farang since 97, conservative elements would like all of us to leave, whether we are supporting families or employing Thais is irrelevant. A friend was given custody of his Thai son, however there is no longer a provision to grant a non O based on supporting Thai offspring.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not optimistic.

Not good to hear that it isn't just a formality to extend your marriage visa even when everything is in order.

Are you 50 yet? If so, maybe switching to retirement is the better option.

Suradit69 · July 17, 2014

"Why were you denied an entry on your tourist visa and given a visa a 15 day visa exempt entry instead.. I suspect your visa had expired."

And why do you assume that the fault was with the poster and not due to some capricious decision/error of the IO, the bureacracy here is a long way from perfect.

I came into BKK on Sunday night with a 60 day tourist visa obtained in Manila. When I checked he had only given me 30 days, even though the visa number was on the arrival card. I was very polite in pointing out the mistake but he didnt want to admit that he,was wrong!! He changed it, reluctantly, but,I,have always checked after friends have had the same problem

Why is there this theory that you always have to be 'very polite' to immigration bods? You have done nothing wrong and they are not God. Did you call him Sir?

Because for some people acting politely to any authority figure and/or any Thai person and especially a Thai authority figure, amounts to a horrendous loss of face.

So for most normal people, you just act as politely to immigrations officers as you would with anyone else. It's not a newsworthy event. But for some people whose egos are on shaky ground most of the time, it's such an alien concept that they feel out of their comfort zone and think they're doing something extraordinary just by being civil.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Suradit69

Living in a cartoon · July 17, 2014

I came on a dual entry tourist visa from the US, intending to take the time to get married to my girlfriend and get everything ready for a marriage visa.I was denied the 2nd part of the 'dual' entry at Mesai border getting instead a 15 day stamp (that gave me a in/out stamp) then had too little time to get everything together, so had to go to Loas to get a tourist visa..then back again to get my type 'O'... my advance planning all would have worked fine, except the border immigration control can do as they please and you have no recourse ... it worked out for me although I did end up with an in/out which would now be a problem inder the new strict enforcement. Proper planning assumes you know what rules will be applied to you.Currently some have been penalised for previous in/out visa runs (which were fine and legal) and denied entry after getting a proper tourist visa, something no one here would have predicted.

Go ahead and figure out what you need to take your TGF to the US on a K1 visa. It is quite complicated, time-consuming and expensive, but she will appreciate it.

If you are serious about her .Otherwise, just marry her in Thailand, simpler and cheaper. Then you and her can put all that behind you.

It's called figuring out your life. Strategic, not tactical.

What is your objective?

Not meant to be anything but helpful, and good luck.

,

Pattaya Pat · July 17, 2014

"Why were you denied an entry on your tourist visa and given a visa a 15 day visa exempt entry instead.. I suspect your visa had expired."

And why do you assume that the fault was with the poster and not due to some capricious decision/error of the IO, the bureacracy here is a long way from perfect.

I came into BKK on Sunday night with a 60 day tourist visa obtained in Manila. When I checked he had only given me 30 days, even though the visa number was on the arrival card. I was very polite in pointing out the mistake but he didnt want to admit that he,was wrong!! He changed it, reluctantly, but,I,have always checked after friends have had the same problem

Why is there this theory that you always have to be 'very polite' to immigration bods? You have done nothing wrong and they are not God. Did you call him Sir?

It's not a theory, being impolite could see them refuse for no reason - they are allowed to. In this guys case even though he was correct the officer was reluctant to change, if he hadn't been polite then he may not have changed it at all.

Where did I say anything about being impolite???

Just behave normally, no need to treat them like Gods, and believe me if you are coming across like a right limp wristed vegetable they will not give you any respect back.

justjoined · July 17, 2014

I've been here 20 years, previously on Non B and WP, over the last 10 yrs it's been WP and marriage Non O 1 yr extension. The longer I've been married, the harder the extenstions get I find it humiliating presenting photos showing the two of us in our bedroom. There is no need to change laws to make things harder, it's just up to the officer. As I understand it they can refuse without giving a reason. The first year I got the marriage extension it was easy, after a quick interview in Thai, they smiled and gave the visa. In the last 3 years we've been knocked back twice on very small technicalities.

There has been growing resentment of farang since 97, conservative elements would like all of us to leave, whether we are supporting families or employing Thais is irrelevant. A friend was given custody of his Thai son, however there is no longer a provision to grant a non O based on supporting Thai offspring.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not optimistic.

Not good to hear that it isn't just a formality to extend your marriage visa even when everything is in order.

Are you 50 yet? If so, maybe switching to retirement is the better option.

I'm not 50, but am hearing the same stories for retirement visas. In one case the guy was denied because he had updated his bank book the day before, he had to rush back to the bank and update on the same day as the interview.

justjoined · July 17, 2014

"Why were you denied an entry on your tourist visa and given a visa a 15 day visa exempt entry instead.. I suspect your visa had expired."

And why do you assume that the fault was with the poster and not due to some capricious decision/error of the IO, the bureacracy here is a long way from perfect.

I came into BKK on Sunday night with a 60 day tourist visa obtained in Manila. When I checked he had only given me 30 days, even though the visa number was on the arrival card. I was very polite in pointing out the mistake but he didnt want to admit that he,was wrong!! He changed it, reluctantly, but,I,have always checked after friends have had the same problem

Why is there this theory that you always have to be 'very polite' to immigration bods? You have done nothing wrong and they are not God. Did you call him Sir?

It's not a theory, being impolite could see them refuse for no reason - they are allowed to. In this guys case even though he was correct the officer was reluctant to change, if he hadn't been polite then he may not have changed it at all.

Where did I say anything about being impolite???

Just behave normally, no need to treat them like Gods, and believe me if you are coming across like a right limp wristed vegetable they will not give you any respect back.

Where did I say you said anything about being impolite?

Suradit69 · July 17, 2014

I've been here 20 years, previously on Non B and WP, over the last 10 yrs it's been WP and marriage Non O 1 yr extension. The longer I've been married, the harder the extenstions get I find it humiliating presenting photos showing the two of us in our bedroom. There is no need to change laws to make things harder, it's just up to the officer. As I understand it they can refuse without giving a reason. The first year I got the marriage extension it was easy, after a quick interview in Thai, they smiled and gave the visa. In the last 3 years we've been knocked back twice on very small technicalities.

There has been growing resentment of farang since 97, conservative elements would like all of us to leave, whether we are supporting families or employing Thais is irrelevant. A friend was given custody of his Thai son, however there is no longer a provision to grant a non O based on supporting Thai offspring.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not optimistic.

Not good to hear that it isn't just a formality to extend your marriage visa even when everything is in order.

Are you 50 yet? If so, maybe switching to retirement is the better option.

"Not good to hear that it isn't just a formality to extend your marriage visa even when everything is in order."

You can't extend a visa ... ever. He's talking about extensions of stay. If he feels its humiliating complying with the law, it's another case of farang obsessing about loss of face. After twenty years of doing the same thing, it probably just has begun to seem more difficult and of course all the applicants who have been gaming the system make immigrations officers more distrustful of applicants with a negative attitude.

elzach · July 17, 2014

Instead, as per their public statements, the crack-down is to reduce those working illegally in Thailand.

You are mistaken. Their intention is to stop people who are not genuine tourists from entering and living here on visa free or tourist visa entry.

The Labor Dept is responsible for regulating illegal workers and it's their responsibility to raid business that employ people working illegally.

So if people "work offshore" and spend a large proportion of time in thailand by entering and exiting frequently, then yes immigration has these people targeted also.

So let's see, people who "work offshore" and spend "their money in Thailand". Yes, let's target those (!)

I think this is not going to end well for...Thailand frankly, if it goes on.

Btw, any idea anyone what's going to happen to the "farang-intended" condo project values in Pattaya, certain parts of BKK etc? I'm sure many real estate brokers and developers must be elated now.

ubonjoe · July 17, 2014

,<snip>

. A friend was given custody of his Thai son, however there is no longer a provision to grant a non O based on supporting Thai offspring.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not optimistic.

That is not correct. A legal parent of Thai child can get a one year extension stay at immigration, See clause 2.18 of police order 777/2551.

There are also 60 day extensions for visitng a child with just the fathers name on the birth certificate for any type of entry.

Single entry non-s visa are possible for all fathers. If the legal father multiple entry visas are possible.

Pattaya Pat · July 17, 2014

Instead, as per their public statements, the crack-down is to reduce those working illegally in Thailand.

You are mistaken. Their intention is to stop people who are not genuine tourists from entering and living here on visa free or tourist visa entry.

The Labor Dept is responsible for regulating illegal workers and it's their responsibility to raid business that employ people working illegally.

So if people "work offshore" and spend a large proportion of time in thailand by entering and exiting frequently, then yes immigration has these people targeted also.

So let's see, people who "work offshore" and spend "their money in Thailand". Yes, let's target those (!)

I think this is not going to end well for...Thailand frankly, if it goes on.

Btw, any idea anyone what's going to happen to the "farang-intended" condo project values in Pattaya, certain parts of BKK etc? I'm sure many real estate brokers and developers must be elated now.

You have to love the word 'target' it really has gone massively hysterical on here now to the point of you're almost a criminal if you want to come to Thailand a few times a year.

What I'd like to know is what happens if you get turned away?? Where do you go? You would obviously need to go and collect your luggage, so they would have to at least let you into the baggage area, then what? March you through to departures like a small time criminal and make you buy a ticket out of the country even though you are a genuine visitor?? There will be a lot of people who will NOT go quitely, then what? throw you in the monkey house? Imagine it once the world press get hold of it, 'tourists being turned away from Thailand' the countries reputation, what it has left of one, will be a mess.

It's going to be an absolute car crash. In a sick kind of way I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how this all pans out.

thaibeachlovers · July 17, 2014

Nope, not me. Never did any of the things in the OP,

Believe it or not, this is not a serious problem. It is certainly not a SERIOUS problem.

No laws have been changed either. But there is a new sheriff in town,

His name is not Barney Fife.

IMO the problem isn't the enforcement of the visa laws, but that they are barking to begin with. If Malaysia, Cambodia and Laos ( apparently ) can have sane immigration for long stay visitors, why can't Thailand?

It's not that long ago that I could get back to back 90 day visa exempt entries as long as I wanted and the country didn't fall apart. If the problem is people working illegally, deal with that and don't penalise everyone else that isn't breaking any laws.

Certainly they need to introduce a long stay visa for those under 50 with enough funds to stay.

Shazdeb · July 17, 2014

Can anyone help. have been coming here for 3 1/2 yrs staying most of the year on a TR 60 day double entry, with 2 30 day extensions it gave me 6 mths here and then forced me to go home ( Australia ) and catch up with family for a month or so, wrong thing to do apparently but in all the times I applied for these visas NO ONE ever pointed out that this was wrong. Yes before you say it I could have applied for a retirement visa but doing it this way suited me as It made me go home, with out the need I doubt I would ever leave this beautiful country and see my ageing parents, I never at any time meant to do the wrong thing. Any way I am now buying a small hotel so have started the process to get my work permit needed to own the company my problem stems from the fact that my son and his long time girlfriend live here with me also, not for as long periods as me they have spend a lot more time in Australia than me, I will get a work permit for my son as he will help me but don't really want to do one for his girlfriend as she is a dependent of his and will not work with us, what do I do about her ?? I like to do things lawfully, even though apparently I wasn't do so but just didn't realize. Any ideas would be appreciated

Pattaya Pat · July 17, 2014

,<snip>

. A friend was given custody of his Thai son, however there is no longer a provision to grant a non O based on supporting Thai offspring.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not optimistic.

That is not correct. A legal parent of Thai child can get a one year extension stay at immigration, See clause 2.18 of police order 777/2551.

There are also 60 day extensions for visitng a child with just the fathers name on the birth certificate for any type of entry.

Single entry non-s visa are possible for all fathers. If the legal father multiple entry visas are possible.

Joe - Realistically, you use the correct term in 'visiting' but if you have say a non -o' based on marriage and are here all year round will you be able to keep getting the 60 day extension after each 90 day entry based on having a wife, or even a chid with your wife (or both) or are they likely to tell you that that is what not the non 'o' is intended for and you should be on an extension of stay, could they therefore say no more extensions or more likely will it just come down to how the officer feels on the day?

mikemellow · July 17, 2014

Can anyone help. have been coming here for 3 1/2 yrs staying most of the year on a TR 60 day double entry, with 2 30 day extensions it gave me 6 mths here and then forced me to go home ( Australia ) and catch up with family for a month or so, wrong thing to do apparently but in all the times I applied for these visas NO ONE ever pointed out that this was wrong. Yes before you say it I could have applied for a retirement visa but doing it this way suited me as It made me go home, with out the need I doubt I would ever leave this beautiful country and see my ageing parents, I never at any time meant to do the wrong thing. Any way I am now buying a small hotel so have started the process to get my work permit needed to own the company my problem stems from the fact that my son and his long time girlfriend live here with me also, not for as long periods as me they have spend a lot more time in Australia than me, I will get a work permit for my son as he will help me but don't really want to do one for his girlfriend as she is a dependent of his and will not work with us, what do I do about her ?? I like to do things lawfully, even though apparently I wasn't do so but just didn't realize. Any ideas would be appreciated

You might want to rethink buying the hotel at this time. Thai tourism should be in the dumps for as long as they keep blocking so many farang from entering and staying in the country. If Thailand loses 30000 baht per month each from thousands of farang at some point it will hurt the economy and add up to some real losses for those in the hotel/restaurant business.

larsjohnsson · July 17, 2014

There is another thread about teachers in a similar position. Some were refused entry and ended up going home. I think it will depend on how previous entries you have had.

But this only happen to teachers that work illegally

simon43 · July 17, 2014

A quick comment about reference to my situation, (not wanting to take the post off-topic):

Your experience may differ...

When I first came to live in Thailand in 2002, it was very easy for me to get a 1-year B visa from Hull consulate (UK), on the basis that I owned a business in Thailand, but was not working in that business.

That all changed after the 2006 coup, when my applications were rejected on the basis that they would only issue me a B visa if I was actually working in that business with a WP