THAI reroutes Europe flights to avoid Ukraine airspace

[hawker9000]

Before all the facts are in I find it interesting that the western media has already laid the blame on Russia on the Malaysia flight MH17 being hit with a missile & the deaths of 298 innocent people,without producing any real evidence.

The real question first I would ask was why did Malaysia flight MH17 fly this particular route over a "war zone" when so many other airlines didn't.

There's also a report that Malaysia flight MH17 was diverted to this flight path from normal flight paths south of the Donetsk region that cross the zone above the Sea of Azov.

it was only this flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk through restricted airspace.

Aviation authorities knew that this was a dangerous area as Federal Aviation Administration notice the prohibiting of “American pilots, airlines, charter carriers, and everyone else over whom the FAA has direct jurisdiction, from flying over parts of Ukraine” on April 23. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/the-faas-notice-prohibiting-airline-flights-over-ukraine/374622/

Well, what I find interesting is that the rebels are preventing access to the crash site, the black boxes have allegedly been sent to Russia (they have or they haven't; we'll know soon enough), and Putin has anything to say about this. It wasn't a Russian aircraft; the passenger list being reported contains no Russian nationals, and the flight went down in non-Russian, Ukrainian territory. Russia should have nothing, absolutely nothing, to say about the investigation, and yet Putin HAS been sticking his nose into it. Why is that, unless he's worried about something getting out that's....shall we say..........unhelpful?

It's obvious. Rebel forces fired off an SA-11, possibly under Russian supervision, but definitely either obtained from Russia or captured from the Ukrainian armed forces, from territory they control, and brought down MH17 thinking it was another Ukrainian military transport. (Worst case, it was actually a Russian-fired S-300...) Access to the crash site would provide conclusive evidence of all this, but of course the Russian-sponsored rebels aren't letting that happen (I'm sure they're working frantically to try & remove any & all such trace evidence before they let anyone in).

[trainman34014]

What type of aircraft is the Thai Airlines plane shown in the photo ?

Looks a bit like an old DC 10 ?

MD 11

I guess some of you are not old enough to remember this aircraft as a McDonnell Douglass DC10, or perhaps Freddie Laker who had a whole fleet of them. It was the best wide bodied aircraft if its day during the 80's and i flew in them many times. Sadly they had a bad reputation for crashes owing mainly to poor maintenance and i've stood in queue's around the world at check-ins where people would turn away when they were told what type of aircraft was on the route. I flew on the inaugural Laker Airways flight from Gatwick to Tampa with Freddie on board and had a good chat with him about the DC10 asking him about his views on reliability. He told me the first thing you do when you take delivery of a DC10 is throw away the McDonnell Douglass servicing manuals and let your staff go about maintenance in their proven ways. His final words were ''If you follow the MD guidelines on maintenance all of your aircraft will fall out of the sky ''. British Caledonian also flew this aircraft and they had similar views.

In response partly to it's accident track record and due to many modifications to update the aircraft the model number was changed during the 1990's to MD11. From memory i seem to recall that the last DC10 was sold to Nigerian Airways and flew until around 2006/7.

Anyone remember the DC9 or DC 9 stretch ?

[tomyummer]

Hopefully all airlines will avoid Ukrainian airspace from today

as they all fly over there when travelling to and from Asia and Europe.

P.S Iraq airspace should also be avoided.

P.P.S. and Syrian, Israeli and Palestine airspace as well....and the Indian Ocean where airliners tend to disappear with no trace.

[iphad]

Before all the facts are in I find it interesting that the western media has already laid the blame on Russia on the Malaysia flight MH17 being hit with a missile & the deaths of 298 innocent people,without producing any real evidence.

The real question first I would ask was why did Malaysia flight MH17 fly this particular route over a "war zone" when so many other airlines didn't.

There's also a report that Malaysia flight MH17 was diverted to this flight path from normal flight paths south of the Donetsk region that cross the zone above the Sea of Azov.

it was only this flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk through restricted airspace.

Aviation authorities knew that this was a dangerous area as Federal Aviation Administration notice the prohibiting of “American pilots, airlines, charter carriers, and everyone else over whom the FAA has direct jurisdiction, from flying over parts of Ukraine” on April 23. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/the-faas-notice-prohibiting-airline-flights-over-ukraine/374622/

Well, what I find interesting is that the rebels are preventing access to the crash site, the black boxes have allegedly been sent to Russia (they have or they haven't; we'll know soon enough), and Putin has anything to say about this. It wasn't a Russian aircraft; the passenger list being reported contains no Russian nationals, and the flight went down in non-Russian, Ukrainian territory. Russia should have nothing, absolutely nothing, to say about the investigation, and yet Putin HAS been sticking his nose into it. Why is that, unless he's worried about something getting out that's....shall we say..........unhelpful?

It's obvious. Rebel forces fired off an SA-11, possibly under Russian supervision, but definitely either obtained from Russia or captured from the Ukrainian armed forces, from territory they control, and brought down MH17 thinking it was another Ukrainian military transport. (Worst case, it was actually a Russian-fired S-300...) Access to the crash site would provide conclusive evidence of all this, but of course the Russian-sponsored rebels aren't letting that happen (I'm sure they're working frantically to try & remove any & all such trace evidence before they let anyone in).

It might be obvious to you...but not to me...too many unanswered questions & unfortunately you are repeating the same rhetoric that western media is propagating.

According to Dr. Paul Craig Roberts : http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/

"Washington’s propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing the facts that we do have.

One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it.

Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia.

Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet.

The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner."

If the Ukraine military had a Buk anti aircraft missile systems in the area..why?..the Ukraine separatists don't have planes & this expensive weapon could be captured.

Was the recording that Ukraine government produced soon after the air disaster of a rebel & Russian re. just shooting the plane down real or a fake?

Was Malaysian MH17 directed on that flight path by Ukraine traffic controllers?

Where is the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17? something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370,

I presume from the OP that Thai flights were not on this same flight path over "restricted airspace" but now they have decided to avoid the Ukraine airspace altogether.

[simondan]

It is not often that a SAM missile capable of hitting a very high altitidue target such as a commercial airliner falls into the hands of "rebel" groups. Unlike the smaller shoulder fired SAMs with limited range and altitude, these are not the types of weapon systems casually available on the black market being sold to non-state entities. But the fact that such a system was allowed to fall into the hands of a rebel group with the full knowledge, and apparently but not yet verified full support, of a state entity is indeed a very serious development. Putin, the KGB thug, has become a global danger.

'Allowed to fall into the hands of rebels' or actively supplied to them? After all, these are highly technical weapons systems that require extensive training and technical support. I doubt you can operate such a system without technical support for long. Certainly beyond your average revolting Ukrainian peasant without a lot of handholding from Big Brother. I wonder what sort of target ID/recognition training the Russians gave them?

Even if the Russians didnt fire the missile, by encouraging and exacerbating this ridiculous conflict they have the blood of these innocents on their hands. Putin is indeed a dangerous thug.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ginjag]

What type of aircraft is the Thai Airlines plane shown in the photo ?

Looks a bit like an old DC 10 ?

MD 11

I guess some of you are not old enough to remember this aircraft as a McDonnell Douglass DC10, or perhaps Freddie Laker who had a whole fleet of them. It was the best wide bodied aircraft if its day during the 80's and i flew in them many times. Sadly they had a bad reputation for crashes owing mainly to poor maintenance and i've stood in queue's around the world at check-ins where people would turn away when they were told what type of aircraft was on the route. I flew on the inaugural Laker Airways flight from Gatwick to Tampa with Freddie on board and had a good chat with him about the DC10 asking him about his views on reliability. He told me the first thing you do when you take delivery of a DC10 is throw away the McDonnell Douglass servicing manuals and let your staff go about maintenance in their proven ways. His final words were ''If you follow the MD guidelines on maintenance all of your aircraft will fall out of the sky ''. British Caledonian also flew this aircraft and they had similar views.

In response partly to it's accident track record and due to many modifications to update the aircraft the model number was changed during the 1990's to MD11. From memory i seem to recall that the last DC10 was sold to Nigerian Airways and flew until around 2006/7.

Anyone remember the DC9 or DC 9 stretch ?

Air Ferry Manston to Basle DC6, brilliant. Nairobi DC8 Milindi, Dakota DC4, reliable. DC9-trident-carravelle-BAC1-11, Laker from Gatwick to G.Canary. Boeing 727-Dan air-Manchester-Tenerife. Think I tried the lot, Memorable was Court line, first wide bodied, 3 they had---halcyon breeze/days/?----pink-blue-yellow. to Tunisia.

Sorry for off topic but brill days they were

[risky11]

Clearly the rebels, but I doubt they could have fired these missiles without the assistance of the Russians, but there again the Russians do have a habit of shooting down civilian planes.

Obviously all Russian air space should be avoided...

Dispersing the media fog: There is only one power on earth who routinely perpetrates senseless acts of terror: The Illuminati-Jewish banking cartel that runs Kiev, NATO and the West. http://henrymakow.com/2014/07/Airliner-Atrocity-is-Illuminati-False-Flag.html

Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

Edited July 24, 2014 by risky11

[hawker9000]

Clearly the rebels, but I doubt they could have fired these missiles without the assistance of the Russians, but there again the Russians do have a habit of shooting down civilian planes.

Obviously all Russian air space should be avoided...

Dispersing the media fog: There is only one power on earth who routinely perpetrates senseless acts of terror: The Illuminati-Jewish banking cartel that runs Kiev, NATO and the West. http://henrymakow.com/2014/07/Airliner-Atrocity-is-Illuminati-False-Flag.html

Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

RT.com. All you need to know.

[tifino]

...hmmm, Ukraine sends tuffies up the ATC tower to have the Malaysian flight re-routed. I'd say there had been plenty of research into finding what flights did not have any (ukrainians) onboard.

MH17 didn't have any, so they made the top of the short list of targets to acquire.

As MH17 approaches the target area, there are two ukraini jets waiting...

SAM fired by ukrainis' on the ground, not the rebels..

Jets are standing by, circling, to finish the job in case the SAM fails. Whether or not they were eventually needed for that - we may never know for sure? (but I see new photos now display shrapnel damage to the 777 fuselage near the Captain's wiondow, characteristic of a SAM strike, so I guess not!)

Anyhow - Fighter Jets heading back to Base after their mission, but shot down...I'd say the Ukrainis did & deliberately shoot down their own Fighters, to add to their smokescreen (who'd shoot their own planes down eh!), so this helps them add weight to the 'blame the Russians'

[ginjag]

...hmmm, Ukraine sends tuffies up the ATC tower to have the Malaysian flight re-routed. I'd say there had been plenty of research into finding what flights did not have any (ukrainians) onboard.

MH17 didn't have any, so they made the top of the short list of targets to acquire.

As MH17 approaches the target area, there are two ukraini jets waiting...

SAM fired by ukrainis' on the ground, not the rebels..

Jets are standing by, circling, to finish the job in case the SAM fails. Whether or not they were eventually needed for that - we may never know for sure? (but I see new photos now display shrapnel damage to the 777 fuselage near the Captain's wiondow, characteristic of a SAM strike, so I guess not!)

Anyhow - Fighter Jets heading back to Base after their mission, but shot down...I'd say the Ukrainis did & deliberately shoot down their own Fighters, to add to their smokescreen (who'd shoot their own planes down eh!), so this helps them add weight to the 'blame the Russians'

WOW, do you have a Russian travel agency in Jomptien ?? Sams reach 32,000ft.??? Ukraine shot down it's own fighters ??

[iphad]

...hmmm, Ukraine sends tuffies up the ATC tower to have the Malaysian flight re-routed. I'd say there had been plenty of research into finding what flights did not have any (ukrainians) onboard.

MH17 didn't have any, so they made the top of the short list of targets to acquire.

As MH17 approaches the target area, there are two ukraini jets waiting...

SAM fired by ukrainis' on the ground, not the rebels..

Jets are standing by, circling, to finish the job in case the SAM fails. Whether or not they were eventually needed for that - we may never know for sure? (but I see new photos now display shrapnel damage to the 777 fuselage near the Captain's wiondow, characteristic of a SAM strike, so I guess not!)

Anyhow - Fighter Jets heading back to Base after their mission, but shot down...I'd say the Ukrainis did & deliberately shoot down their own Fighters, to add to their smokescreen (who'd shoot their own planes down eh!), so this helps them add weight to the 'blame the Russians'

WOW, do you have a Russian travel agency in Jomptien ?? Sams reach 32,000ft.??? Ukraine shot down it's own fighters ??

yeah probably not a Sam..I haven't heard the theory that maybe it was Ukraine shooting it's own military planes down as a smokescreen as tifino offered as an opinion..but I also wouldn't be surprised either.

Unfortunately little facts have been forthcoming...but in the western media & from the US State Department it is obvious that it was the rebels with Russia in control of the shooting down the Malaysian passenger plane with a Buk missile system.

Yet except for fake voice recording by rebels bragging of the shooting,fake photo showing a truck with a Buk missile missing & social media there is no factual evidence that the rebels or Russia were behind it.

But I have to give the US government credit & using the western media for fooling most of the people in the West that it was Putin's fault..using emotional,hysterical,scare tactics & drumming up hate against Putin/Russia and to say"trust us..we know"

But what I did see..

Ukraine traffic controllers changed the Malaysian plane flightpath & lowered it's elevation to 33,000 ft above a war zone.

There has been no release of the traffic controllers & pilot voice recording from Ukraine government yet.

No satellite images from the US proving their case.

Then I have to think..What's the motive?

Russia has no motive.Putin has actually been the grown up in this Ukraine conflict..calling for peace negotiations many times but then the Ukraine nazi government breaks their agreement..with US backing & continues the slaughter on civilians in eastern Ukraine.Putin should have invaded the Eastern Ukraine months ago..but he hasn't...waiting for peace with the west..but that's not the US's agenda.

The west..or US has all the motive to escalate sanctions.forcing the EU to get on with the gameplan.....

or war against Russia..or at least leave the eastern part of the Ukraine for the US's puppet fascist Ukraine government in Kiev to continue their policy of genocide against the Russian speaking people living there.

The US government has lied many times before with their so called evidence..Invasion of Iraq..chemical weapons in Syria..Iranian nukes & many more.

If I was to make a guess...before all the evidence is in...it was the Ukraine military that did it..with US backing.

and No I do not own a Russian travel agency in Jomtien or traveled anywhere near Russia.

But I do study History & Politics as a hobby...

People can have an opinion...but to say an opinion is a fact is not productive.

Facts are facts..Show me the evidence.

Thailand is very wise...to reroute all Thai flights & avoid the Ukraine altogether.

Edited July 25, 2014 by iphad

[JoePai]

Just returned from Paris with TG - outward via Moscow and return via the Gulf States according to the map on the screens - all very safe and very good flights/service on the 380

[ginjag]

Just returned from Paris with TG - outward via Moscow and return via the Gulf States according to the map on the screens - all very safe and very good flights/service on the 380

Just to be nosey with Thai being on the hit list and my up to date prices I already submitted, how much on the A380 return Paris-BKK, just to compare with all the other info gathered. If you were satisfied all well and good. But everyone are all of the same mind on this OVER priced.

[ginjag]

...hmmm, Ukraine sends tuffies up the ATC tower to have the Malaysian flight re-routed. I'd say there had been plenty of research into finding what flights did not have any (ukrainians) onboard.

MH17 didn't have any, so they made the top of the short list of targets to acquire.

As MH17 approaches the target area, there are two ukraini jets waiting...

SAM fired by ukrainis' on the ground, not the rebels..

Jets are standing by, circling, to finish the job in case the SAM fails. Whether or not they were eventually needed for that - we may never know for sure? (but I see new photos now display shrapnel damage to the 777 fuselage near the Captain's wiondow, characteristic of a SAM strike, so I guess not!)

Anyhow - Fighter Jets heading back to Base after their mission, but shot down...I'd say the Ukrainis did & deliberately shoot down their own Fighters, to add to their smokescreen (who'd shoot their own planes down eh!), so this helps them add weight to the 'blame the Russians'

WOW, do you have a Russian travel agency in Jomptien ?? Sams reach 32,000ft.??? Ukraine shot down it's own fighters ??

yeah probably not a Sam..I haven't heard the theory that maybe it was Ukraine shooting it's own military planes down as a smokescreen as tifino offered as an opinion..but I also wouldn't be surprised either.

Unfortunately little facts have been forthcoming...but in the western media & from the US State Department it is obvious that it was the rebels with Russia in control of the shooting down the Malaysian passenger plane with a Buk missile system.

Yet except for fake voice recording by rebels bragging of the shooting,fake photo showing a truck with a Buk missile missing & social media there is no factual evidence that the rebels or Russia were behind it.

But I have to give the US government credit & using the western media for fooling most of the people in the West that it was Putin's fault..using emotional,hysterical,scare tactics & drumming up hate against Putin/Russia and to say"trust us..we know"

But what I did see..

Ukraine traffic controllers changed the Malaysian plane flightpath & lowered it's elevation to 33,000 ft above a war zone.

There has been no release of the traffic controllers & pilot voice recording from Ukraine government yet.

No satellite images from the US proving their case.

Then I have to think..What's the motive?

Russia has no motive.Putin has actually been the grown up in this Ukraine conflict..calling for peace negotiations many times but then the Ukraine nazi government breaks their agreement..with US backing & continues the slaughter on civilians in eastern Ukraine.Putin should have invaded the Eastern Ukraine months ago..but he hasn't...waiting for peace with the west..but that's not the US's agenda.

The west..or US has all the motive to escalate sanctions.forcing the EU to get on with the gameplan.....

or war against Russia..or at least leave the eastern part of the Ukraine for the US's puppet fascist Ukraine government in Kiev to continue their policy of genocide against the Russian speaking people living there.

The US government has lied many times before with their so called evidence..Invasion of Iraq..chemical weapons in Syria..Iranian nukes & many more.

If I was to make a guess...before all the evidence is in...it was the Ukraine military that did it..with US backing.

and No I do not own a Russian travel agency in Jomtien or traveled anywhere near Russia.

But I do study History & Politics as a hobby...

People can have an opinion...but to say an opinion is a fact is not productive.

Facts are facts..Show me the evidence.

Thailand is very wise...to reroute all Thai flights & avoid the Ukraine altogether.

Whoever had access to this complicated weapon system must have had extensive training to set it up for firing. If rebels held the system Russians would have had to be involved in firing.

If the Ukraine had the system they would have had to have expert training by the Russians. Your theory re Ukraine, no. rebels firing with Russians in attendance yes.--that's my take, but even if it was off course you intercept to force land---NOT fire out of the sky a nationality livery painted airline--sick are the shooters./firers.

[tifino]

...well when I typed 'SAM', I thought the general assumption was that a BUK is being named with the intent as a SAM - aint it? If a BUK is instead a ground launched missile solely for bombing a terrestrial target, then a 'BUK' missile wouldn't be a suspect.

Anyhow - the Ukrainis' temporarily place a 'SAM' at that since-spotted-satellite-spotted location, which happens to be nearby the rebels.

Whether the battery was overtaken by rebels (conveniently for the Ukrainis), or whether the Ukrainis physically pushed the button (or buttons for the 3 jets) themselves - is what no-one will probably be able to prove for some time to come, if ever!

Flaming 2 of their own jets would have been simple collateral damage.

The theory of the Ukraini 2 jet downing smokescreen, hasn't been voiced anywhere on the News - that was one of mine (must be from having those 24 years of military-narrow-mindedness drilled into me head)

[iphad]

...well when I typed 'SAM', I thought the general assumption was that a BUK is being named with the intent as a SAM - aint it? If a BUK is instead a ground launched missile solely for bombing a terrestrial target, then a 'BUK' missile wouldn't be a suspect.

Anyhow - the Ukrainis' temporarily place a 'SAM' at that since-spotted-satellite-spotted location, which happens to be nearby the rebels.

Whether the battery was overtaken by rebels (conveniently for the Ukrainis), or whether the Ukrainis physically pushed the button (or buttons for the 3 jets) themselves - is what no-one will probably be able to prove for some time to come, if ever!

Flaming 2 of their own jets would have been simple collateral damage.

The theory of the Ukraini 2 jet downing smokescreen, hasn't been voiced anywhere on the News - that was one of mine (must be from having those 24 years of military-narrow-mindedness drilled into me head)

You are quite correct..as I did more research on this I was ignorantly thinking a SAM was a shoulder held missile..whereas a BUK was not a SAM...now I realize the BUK Missile launcher is in fact a SAM

"The Buk is a mobile, radar-guided surface to air missile (SAM) missile system with all four main components — acquisition and targeting radars, a command element, missile launchers, and a logistics element — mounted on tracked vehicles. This allows the system to move with other military forces and relocate to make it a more difficult target to find than a fixed SAM system." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system