Anatomy of a long term tourist

[Sortapundit]

In the current climate, and with the repeated, empathy-free advice to 'get legal or get out', I wanted to give an example of a legitimate long term tourist who might be caught out by the newly tightened regulations.

My partner and I are nomadic. She can't live in my country long term and I can't live in hers, so instead we live on the road in whatever countries will have us. I'm an author living on royalties, but I haven't published anything in a year and don't plan to any time soon, so I'm pretty much retired.

I flipped through my last three passports (it doesn't take long to fill 48 pages as a nomad) spanning the three years we've been visiting Thailand, and added up our visits. Feel free to skim over the stats to the text. I only bothered to add up all our visits to satisfy my own curiosity:

2011:

Enter 21/01/11

Exit 06/02/11

Visa waiver

16 days

Out for 8 days

Enter 14/02/11

Exit 22/02/11

Visa waiver

8 days

Out for four months

Enter 22/06/11

Exit 20/07/11

Visa waiver

28 days

Out for 10 days

Enter 30/07/11

Exit 24/10/11

Tourist visa

86 days

Out for 3 months

2011 total - 138 days

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In 2011 we visited Thailand for a little over four months, with side trips to Cambodia and Laos. After a brief initial visit on visa waivers - our first to Thailand - we left for several months before returning for a longer stay on a tourist visa.

------------------------------

2012:

Enter 13/01/12

Exit 11/02/12

Visa waiver

29 days

Out for 7 days

Enter 18/02/12

Exit 17/04/12

Tourist visa

52 days

Back same day

Enter 17/04/12

Exit 11/07/12

Tourist visa + extension

85 days

Out for 2 months

Enter 16/09/12

Exit 7/10/12

Visa waiver

3 weeks

Out for 1 month

Enter 17/11/12

Exit 20/12/12

Visa waiver + 3 day overstay

33 days

Out for one month

2012 total - 220 days

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We came to love the country, and in 2012 decided to make Thailand our base for trips around the region. We moved out of the hostels and hotels we'd previously used and into a Bangkok apartment that offered a month by month lease, to help save money. 2012 was by far the year we spent the most amount of time here - a little over 7 months - interspersed with long holidays in Vietnam and India. 2012 was also the only year we used a double entry tourist visa (though no back to backs).

--------------------------------------

2013:

Enter 08/01/13

Exit 29/01/13

Visa waiver

21 days

Out for 2 days

Enter 31/01/13

Exit 01/04/13

Tourist visa

60 days

Out for 4 months

Enter 26/07/13

Exit 19/08/13

Visa waiver

24 days

Out for 3 days

Enter 21/08/13

Exit 13/10/13

Tourist visa

54 days

Out for 6 months

2013 total - 159 days

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In 2013 we used one tourist visa for a two month stay at the start of the year, before heading to my partner's country to apply for a Schengen visa for a tour of Europe. The application took the whole summer, and before leaving for Europe we returned to Thailand for another three months before flying to Paris.

------------------------------------------

2014:

Enter 16/04/14

Exit 15/05/14

Visa waiver

29 days

Out for 1 day

Enter 16/05/14

Planned Exit 03/08/14

Tourist visa + extension

79 days

2014 running total - 108 days

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After a 6 month tour of Europe we returned to Thailand on a visa waiver in April before heading to Laos for a double entry tourist visa. We then planned a month long trip to my partner's country, so we will not be using the second entry. At the end of August we plan to return to Thailand for another stay of a few months.

------------------------------------------

You see the problem. Without using back to back visas or abusing the O-I visa waiver system we've racked up an average of 172 days a year (not counting the 2014 running total) in Thailand - just 10 days under six months a year. We know we're tourists, we know we don't work here, and we're pretty certain this new, stricter interpretation of the rules wasn't designed to oust us from the country. The problem is that without clear and firm guidelines there's no way to tell if an immigration officer with his own interpretation of the law will recognise that we're tourists. Without a clear 'you can stay here on tourist visas for this long, and no longer' there's no way of knowing which exit will be our last.

The point is to answer those here who advise people like us to get the appropriate visa. The tourist visa is the appropriate visa, and for many long term tourists like us - people who are here legally, but for longer periods than the average tourist - this is a very worrying time.

[glegolo]

I do NOT feel that tourist-VISA is the appropriate visa actually for you guys.... There are other VISA that much better can fullfill your special needs...

Just start to read about them, and let it sink in a bit, and than you will be just fine...

Glegolo

[Soutpeel]

to me the easiest rule to apply as to whether someone is a tourist or not is to apply the 180 day rule, more than 180 days per year...your not a tourist, your resident

less you are.

The easy solution for Thailand is to impose a 180 day rule on "tourists" if your here more than 180 days in 1 year, bugger off and come back next year...it will make people get the proper visa's for long term stay

[paddyjenkins]

The best thing would be to obtain a work permit and a business visa permit. That way, just in case immigration decide you may be working, it will be okay because you have a work permit. And in case they think you might not be working but are in fact running a business then also have a business visa. The only problem i then see Is if they suspect you are actually a tourist then they may deny you entry. So maybe also obtain a tourist visa.

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[gray42]

The best thing would be to obtain a work permit and a business visa permit. That way, just in case immigration decide you may be working, it will be okay because you have a work permit. And in case they think you might not be working but are in fact running a business then also have a business visa. The only problem i then see Is if they suspect you are actually a tourist then they may deny you entry. So maybe also obtain a tourist visa.

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You say "obtain a work permit" like it's something you just apply for. How do you expect him to get a work permit as a self employed author? He would have to start a company or be employed by a company.

[squarethecircle]

They'll have to clarify this, I myself was in the Kingdom for well over 180 days out of a 365 day period during 2011/2012 (touring around all parts of the country and hopping in and out of Laos Myanmar and Malaysia for various periods of time) but immigration officer didn't even flip through my passport when I got stamped in last Saturday in Chiang Khong, just saw I had been in other countries for the past few months and applied the 30 day visa-free stamp. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens with folks like you as I really can't see the "mai pen lai" immigration authorities cracking down with people who aren't clearly abusing the system.

[JLCrab]

The situation is complicated since the the OP has a non-spousal partner but the following extension of stay and WP would be possibly available to a published author -- From Police Order 777/2551

2.12 In the case of mass media function:

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the Public Relations Department or the Information Department attached to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Also note: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/Guidanceforforeignpress.pdf

Edited July 18, 2014 by JLCrab

[enuff said]

.

OP, you are missing the whole point. It's BACK TO BACK NEVER GO ANYWHERE ELSE visa abusers they are weaning off the Thailand teat, so to speak. You are plainly touring. As long as you keep that up, I don't think they will be adding up your total days.

You MIGHT have to amend your plans a WEE bit in the "come and go as you bloody well please" department, but after all, it's not your country of origin.

'nuff said

~

[Sortapundit]

The situation is complicated since the the OP has a non-spousal partner but the following extension of stay and WP would be possibly available to a published author -- From Police Order 777/2551

2.12 In the case of mass media function:

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the Public Relations Department or the Information Department attached to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

I haven't looked into it, but I'm guessing this would be the media (Non-imm M) visa? If so, from the information I've seen it seems to be exclusively aimed at press (journalists, photographers, cameramen, etc.). The media visa requires a letter from a news agency and 'At least three examples of published news reports or other forms of news reports, especially those related to Thailand, that has been done in the past by the journalist in English (if it is not in English, the translation in English is necessary).' To further complicate matters I'm self published, so I couldn't rely on a publisher for any documentation of my job, and I doubt the authorities would be all that interested in a print out of my product pages on Amazon and a screenshot of my incoming royalties. It'd be a nice visa to have, but I don't think I qualify.

[JLCrab]

Life can really suck sometimes, can't it?

[Sortapundit]

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The best thing would be to obtain a work permit and a business visa permit. That way, just in case immigration decide you may be working, it will be okay because you have a work permit. And in case they think you might not be working but are in fact running a business then also have a business visa. The only problem i then see Is if they suspect you are actually a tourist then they may deny you entry. So maybe also obtain a tourist visa.


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This would be an inappropriate visa for our situation, as I don't work. In effect I'd be moving from one visa that underserves me to another that overserves me, with neither truly being the correct visa. It is also, surely, against the law to enter a country on a business visa if you intend to do no business. I'd just be breaking the law in the other direction.

.

OP, you are missing the whole point. It's BACK TO BACK NEVER GO ANYWHERE ELSE visa abusers they are weaning off the Thailand teat, so to speak. You are plainly touring. As long as you keep that up, I don't think they will be adding up your total days.

You MIGHT have to amend your plans a WEE bit in the "come and go as you bloody well please" department, but after all, it's not your country of origin.

'nuff said.

No, I see the point. My argument is that it would be useful to see some official guidelines, because as it stands long term, regular tourists like me and my partner run the risk of being caught in the dragnet designed to get rid of people who stay year round.

They'll have to clarify this...

Yep. Most countries have hard and fast rules that dictate how long a person in any given situation is legally allowed to stay (even countries as... casual about organisation as Thailand). It isn't too much to ask for clarification.

[Pattszero]

^^ OP - have a look at writing articles for, lets say Huff Post, and the other more amenable English language magazine's and newspapers that are always hungry for high quality content, especially if it's free. Contact the editors and offer up pre-prepared articles so they can quickly scan the subject, relevance and quality.

With a little bit of application you should be able to rack up the three published article requirement quickly. Then you may be able to go for a freelancer media visa -

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/Guidanceforforeignpress.pdf

Edited July 18, 2014 by Pattszero

[Sortapundit]

It's a nice idea, but I'm not a journalist. I write romance novels, and I'm entirely unqualified to write news or opinion. Novelists and journalists use the same alphabet, but we jumble it up in entirely different ways

[JLCrab]

... and here I thought you would be writing suspense thrillers but if you write romance novels (which would maybe explain why 50 books at age 32) maybe you could get a job at the TV Thai soaps or lakhon thorathat

[paddyjenkins]

Sortapundit...I see your point. Best to get the most appropriate visa. Is there an author visa? I suggest you get that one. But that may mean you wouldn't be permitted to also engage in more touristy activities. You could take a risk, but if you did get the author visa then I'd still suggest you get a tourist visa at the same time, just in case immigration decide you aren't really an author, but more of a tourist, and decide to deny you entry.

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[Pattszero]

It's a nice idea, but I'm not a journalist. I write romance novels, and I'm entirely unqualified to write news or opinion. Novelists and journalists use the same alphabet, but we jumble it up in entirely different ways

Well write a few Thai love short-stories and get them published in the English media local rags.

Man, for a novelist you're seriously short on imagination.

[Sortapundit]

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... and here I thought you would be writing suspense thrillers but if you write romance novels (which would maybe explain why 50 books at age 32) maybe you could get a job at the TV Thai soaps or lakhon thorathat

It's a nice idea, but I'm not a journalist. I write romance novels, and I'm entirely unqualified to write news or opinion. Novelists and journalists use the same alphabet, but we jumble it up in entirely different ways alt=tongue.png>

Well write a few Thai love short-stories and get them published in the English media local rags.

Man, for a novelist you're seriously short on imagination. alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

Ha! There's a reason I call myself retired. If I have to write one more bloody love story I'll lose my mind

[JLCrab]

Hey some guys on here are hoping that the retirement extension age is raised from 50 to 60 or 65 (That'll fix those mean old geezers) and some are hoping it gets lowered to 27.

[Maestro]

The OP's travel pattern clearly shows him to be a genuine tourist.

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