Ad nauseum topic i know BUT..gasohol vs benzine again

[illy]

Ok so we have discussed this in sooooo much detail already but I am still not convinced that gasohol is anywhere near as suitable for high performance machines a benzene is.

However after reading that a lot of you guys with High end bikes such as ducatis and BMWs have mentioned that you run on shell V power gasohol [shell sells ONLY gasohol in most stations] I thought I would give it a try...

Over the last two months I have run all my 'machines' on both gasohol and benzene [a month at a time]

here's what I have found:

Kawasaki ninja 650R. after a month of running on gasohol [shell V power 95]:

#backfires when under deceleration and misfires when picking up the throttle, such as, after going down a hill using engine braking.

# slightly hard to start after being idle for 4 days

#rough idle

# doesn't feel 'sharp or responsive"

Yamaha FX SHO PWC ["jetski" for want of a better word] after a month of running on V power 95 gasohol:

# power delivery not smooth

# more difficult to start after being idle for 5 days

# tends to foul the spark plugs and runs roughly on 3 rather 4 cylinders

# will not reach same top speed

# gets water in the catchment bottle/filter WAY more quickly

Scooter...Honda airblade: after a month of running on 'whatever brand gasohol they sell in bottles on the road side]

# very difficult to start after being idle for a few days

# wont rev above idle after starting as above

# fuel seems to evaporate very quickly when not used

# runs ok if started regularly

Now when ALL the machines are run on benzine 95 [Caltex] or in the case of the scooter on benzine 91, they ALL do not have these problems at all especially in regard to difficult starting

.

Just my two cents on the matter

illy

[properperson]

Over the last two months I have run all my 'machines' on both gasohol and benzene [a month at a time]

here's what I have found:

what colour anorak were you wearing ?

[Bung]

If your airblade is non efi then it won't like gasohol, the fuel lines are not made for it and will deteriorate over time and carbed (non efi) ones are notoriously hard to start after left a few days. They all do it.

I use benzine 95 in my efi classic triumph as it is just better and don't care about the added cost as I don't use it much. It will sit idle better and has a performance gain. If I used it everyday I would probably just use gasohol 95.

[SDM0712]

I have a Ninja 650 and am sure the bike runs better and faster on 95 Octance pure petrol then any if the gasohol mixes. It might be in my mind, I don't know, more expensive = better. Really not sure and I'm a million miles away from being a petrochemical engineer.

SDM

[SDM0712]

Over the last two months I have run all my 'machines' on both gasohol and benzene [a month at a time]

here's what I have found:

what colour anorak were you wearing ?

It does sound like something Brains from Thunderbirds would say, still I don't suppose they have a Caltex on Tracey Island.

SDM

Edited July 20, 2014 by SDM0712

[ll2]

I have no such problems with shell v power.

Of course it runs better with caltex 95 but no need for that expense for my daily rides all the time.

Track days, I use pure 95 benzene.

[Shurup]

a lot of you guys with High end bikes such as ducatis and BMWs have mentioned that you run on shell V power gasohol

Ducati shouldn't be run on gasohol with their plastic tanks.

Now when ALL the machines are run on benzine 95 [Caltex] or in the case of the scooter on benzine 91

Benzine 91 is no longer available in Thailand.

[Marcel1]

many stations not have benzene so my bikes go on gasohol 95, easy and if it wasnt ok it wouldnt be there.

for my ninja 300 I guess benzine would be better but it runs fine and like said, sometimes difficult to find

[nikster]

Meh - if you're so much into testing, do a blind test. Then I'll believe you. Until then, I didn't see any difference before on the Kawasaki Versys, and I don't see any difference on the Hypermotard.

Ducati recommends getting Benzene so I do that most of the time, but 95 is just as wheelie-friendly...

Send the wife or a friend to the gas station with your bike, and tell her to get either gasohol or benzene, write it down, but not tell you. Then you get rid of the mind-difference. If there still is a difference, it's legit.

I'm definitely not going to let the Duc sit for long periods with gasohol in it. The Honda Wave of course sits for months with gasohol 91 in the tank, and always fires up first try... on an 8 year old battery. So I am inclined to believe that if a bike has trouble starting up when it sits for a while, it's the bike, not the gasoline

I've heard that all gasoline in Europe is gasohol... FWIW.

Edited July 20, 2014 by nikster

[Shurup]

...

Ducati recommends getting Benzene so I do that most of the time, but 95 is just as wheelie-friendly...

...

I've heard that all gasoline in Europe is gasohol... FWIW.

Here's what I know:

For occasional fill 95 gasohol is fine, but should be filled with benzine again at the 1st opportunity. There's been many cases with Ducati plastic tanks getting destroyed by the alcohol if used too frequently or let sit in the tank for prolonged period of time. Have read there's even some special kits you can get to put a coat on the inside of the tank to make it alcohol resistant.

On my latest trip back to Canada I talked to Ducati dealer and was told that some newer models Ducati now come with Steel tanks. Monster 796 that I'm considering buying in Thailand is unfortunately still plastic. To my surprise he said that the largest petrol manufacturers in Canada only sell benzine in higher octane. I was surprised because most of the pumps have the small print mentioning that the fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol...

[brfsa2]

I've stopped wasting money on the rip-off Benzine (50Baht) and started using Gasohol-95 at 43Baht.

I get the exact same mileage and performance, there is absolutely no difference whatsoever regarding the before mentioned.

ps: I have been able to score 32.20 KM/litre using Gasohol 95 on my touring weekends. normally I get the avg. 24Km/L on the city on ether benzine or gasohol.

2013 CB500F

Edited July 20, 2014 by brfsa2

[brfsa2]

Also note that Ethanol can deliver a bit more power than pure gasoline, it has has a higher compression ratio than gasoline.

if the ECU is designed to work with with Gasohol, I don't see why not use it.

For example, a 1.4 Flex Chev car in Brazil running on 100% ethanol can deliver 97HP, but only 89HP on Gasoline.

also, gasoline starts building up carbons inside the engine reducing the power on the long term.

[thehelmsman]

Dealership told me Benzine no longer available in thailand. Is this the case???

[ktm jeff]

Ethanol will ONLY give same or slight increase in power IF - and only IF - the vehicle is specialy tuned / adapted via the ECU ect , to run on it , ie flex-fuel cars.Ethanol provides LESS energy than Gasoline , per liter or KG. MPG or KPL will be significantly lower (worsen) on Flex-fuel cars by up to 20%. Any combustion engine or process will produce contaminates (carbon). This is why it is important to use well refined fuel that contain "fuel system cleaners". It is claimed the enviremental cost of refining and transporting this ethanol ,at the expense of planting food crops , far outways any claimed benefit.

[VocalNeal]

Dealership told me Benzine no longer available in thailand. Is this the case???

No. It IS available in some gas stations. If the price board at the gas station has anything for 48.75 - 49.25 it is Benzene 95.

Be careful at Shell stations they have V-power 95 which is higher price than "normal" 95 but is still 10% alcohol.

[Bung]

My new subaru gets about 1 klm per 100km better economy using gasohol 95 compared to e20. Not ure if that adds up to better value for money though as I can't be bothered to work it out.

[ll2]

funny, fuel economy for me is worst with pure benzene, i am not sure why. Maybe i ride is faster with it.

Normally, gasohol 10 95 has to give 5 percent less economy than pure benzene. Also gasohol 10 95 does not give extra power than pure petrol.

[illy]

Overall then it seems like everyone has a differing view/experience on the subject but as before in previous forums, most seem in agreement that leaving gasohol in the tank for long periods of time unused/not being ridden is not a good idea.

When I don't run the bike for a long time I always use benzene and put in a stabilizing product called "stabil" which does seem to help.

I also have a Honda CBR600RR back in Australia that I only get to use twice a year. I run that always on 98 benzene or at least 95...it does not perform well at all on 91 benzene. gasohol/ethanol is clearly labelled as E10 or E20 there but I am sure shell V power there is benzene. but not 100% sure

illy

Edited July 21, 2014 by illy

[ktm jeff]

I think Shell Nitro V-power is just 5% ethanol in Thailand and England and costs 43 Baht/L(not in England , its equal to 76 Baht/L). Depending on your bike (and its condition/state of tune) , and maybe your riding style/conditions , it may run better on E10 rather than Benzine. As a guide , the higher the state of tune of the engine , the higher the required octane rating. Regular use of E10 on "regular" bikes with fuel injction , is fine. E20 is a NO-NO in most bikes , and Benzine onlr required in old bikes or modern high performance bikes.

[Shurup]

I think Shell Nitro V-power is just 5% ethanol in Thailand and England and costs 43 Baht/L(not in England , its equal to 76 Baht/L). Depending on your bike (and its condition/state of tune) , and maybe your riding style/conditions , it may run better on E10 rather than Benzine. As a guide , the higher the state of tune of the engine , the higher the required octane rating. Regular use of E10 on "regular" bikes with fuel injction , is fine. E20 is a NO-NO in most bikes , and Benzine onlr required in old bikes or modern high performance bikes.

"its condition and state of tune"??? "riding style/condition"??? - nothing to do with what type of fuel to run. I think you're confused.

AS A GUIDE, the higher the compression ratio - the higher octane rating is required.

Fuel injectors or carburetors have nothing to do with with alcohol content either. Any bike can be made to run on any fuel starting from pure benzine and all the way up to E20 or higher if they were available here. One condition that has to be met - there can't be any plastic/rubber materials in the fuel system. Replace those parts with alcohol resistant parts and you can have carb bike running on E20.

[macknife]

I've been putting Gasohol 91 in a 'carbed' Honda Airblade for 6 years now. It wasn't built for gasohol yet there are no fuel system issues at all. No damaged seals nothing(yet). Never had any starting problems ever, apart from the one time I needed to buy a new battery. Even when the battery was gone, 1-2 kicks on the kickstarter and away you go. I've tried 95, Vpower etc and I can't really notice any difference in performance or fuel consumption, except for Vpower which costs me more money to fill it.

My conclusion(for scooters anyway) is that some of the things we hear about are just old wives tales and imagination.

[illy]

I've been putting Gasohol 91 in a 'carbed' Honda Airblade for 6 years now. It wasn't built for gasohol yet there are no fuel system issues at all. No damaged seals nothing(yet). Never had any starting problems ever, apart from the one time I needed to buy a new battery. Even when the battery was gone, 1-2 kicks on the kickstarter and away you go. I've tried 95, Vpower etc and I can't really notice any difference in performance or fuel consumption, except for Vpower which costs me more money to fill it.

My conclusion(for scooters anyway) is that some of the things we hear about are just old wives tales and imagination.

I tend to agree re the scooters they pretty much run on anything..but they sure seem to have starting issues when left for a few days I guess from fuel evaporation....why would you use the kick starter on the airblade when it has electric start?