Schengen visa France & Luxembourg for Thai wife and daughter from uk

[Danart69]

Hi we my Thai wife and her daughter have just successfully obtained a 2 year extension for settlement uk FLR(M) visa with the new biometric credit card thing...now want to go camping for a week in France and Luxembourg with our british born daughter and my 2 sons from a previous marriage whilst in half term period..Is it just a case of filling in the 2 page application and send it to the French embassy in London and make an appointment take all our paperwork and wait.. Does our Thai marriage certificate already translated into English need to be changed to French?? And are there any other important issues we need to consider before travel?? I have read so much but am still unsure of this procedure

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[Danart69]

My wife's best friend from school has lived in Luxembourg for 10 years does she need to write a letter of invitation

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[Basil B]

If the biometric card you describe counts as a EEA Residence Card, your wife may travel freely within the schengen area if accompanied by a EU family member (you) without the need for a Schengen Visa.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Basil B

[7by7]

Assuming you are British, or another EEA nationality, the process is very simple and free.

Most of the requirements wont apply, including a letter of invitation.

See under "I am a family member (spouse, child) of an EU/EEA citizen" at Schengen visa FAQ.

Yes, an English translation of your Thai marriage certificate and your step daughters birth certificate is ok; no need to get French ones.

However, for a Schengen visa translations must be certified correct by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

If you did not do this whilst in Thailand, you can get it done at the Thai embassy.

[7by7]

If the biometric card you describe counts as a EEA Residence Card, your wife may travel freely within the schengen area if accompanied by a EU family member (you) without the need for a Schengen Visa.

Unfortunately a biometric residence card issued under the UK immigration rules doesn't count as an EEA residence card..

[Danart69]

<photo removed due to personal details being visible>

Hi is this the card you say will be ok to travel by ferry Dover to Calais with out going down the sch even route?


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[Danart69]

I didn't think so

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[7by7]

The EEA freedom of movement regulations only apply to non EEA nationals who are travelling with or to join their EEA national family member.

To be able to use a residence card instead of a visa it must name the EEA national family member so it can then be linked to the accompanying EEA national's passport.

Cards issued under the UK immigration rules don't do this so cannot be used.

You could turn up at French immigration and they should, according to the regulations, let you all in; provided you can prove that your wife and step daughter are indeed your qualifying family members.

See "Arriving at the border without an entry visa" on this page from the EU website.

But you may very well be subject to a lengthy delay while they check everything.

Assuming your carrier let them board without a visa.

As that page says, better to get the visa beforehand.

Edited July 27, 2014 by 7by7

[Basil B]

As far as I know reading other forums the Biometric Residence Card (BRP) has been used without a visa on many occasions.

But best to apply for a visa they are free, but I seem to recall some posts of them being refused probably because they are not needed.

7x7 said "To be able to use a residence card instead of a visa it must name the EEA national family member so it can then be linked to the accompanying EEA national's passport." I think this is incorrect because a non EEA national could have many qualifying EEA national family members.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Basil B

[Danart69]

The residence card of my wife displays my family name but her daughter my step daughters surname is her fathers surname would that cause a problem could we connect her with paperwork from he school in uk ??also daughters birth cert is only in Thai..

The biggest hassle and expense is going to London for a French embassy appointment

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[7by7]

My understanding is:-

For the residence card to be used instead of a visa it needs to say "Family member of an EU/EEA national" or similar and it needs to name that EU/EEA national.

UK residence cards issued under the EEA regulations do say this, and so can be used.

UK residence cards issued under the immigration rules don't; so can't.

As said above this page from the EU says

Arriving at the border without an entry visa

It is always best for your non-EU family members to be well informed in advance and have all the necessary documents before starting their journey.

However, if they arrive at the border without an entry visa, the border authorities should give them the opportunity to prove by other means that they are your family members. If they manage to prove it, they should be issued with an entry visa on the spot.

Up to you if you want to risk the delay at French immigration while you do this and the possible refusal by your carrier to carry them as they don't have a visa.

Your step daughter does count as a family member, but you will need to show this. Her birth certificate naming her mother and your marriage certificate showing her mother is married to you will suffice.

As said above, all documents not in an EEA language must be accompanied by a translation; English is fine. But the Schengen states require the translation to be certified as correct by the Thai MFA. Either at their office in Bangkok or a Thai embassy; London in your case.

You will need to do this whether you apply for visas for them or opt to try visa less entry.

As I say, that is my understanding, but I am prepared to be proven wrong from an official source.

[Danart69]

Hi would my thai step daughters birth certificate translated by AA global language services ltd be sufficient certified proof needed towards our schengen French holiday

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[Donutz]

If you got it certified by the Thai authorities (MoFA) then it should be enough provided you also show your passports (to establish family relation and ID you) and a correctly filled in application form (reason for travel: other, traveling with my British parent(s) to France).

[bigyin]

I have been reading about Schengen visas and there was a previous thread where it was stated that in addition to the translations being certified by MOFA in Bangkok they also had to be stamped by the Embassy of the EU national spouse (in my case the British Embassy). That thread was in 2013 but this thread suggests that the MOFA certification is enough. Can anyone with recent experience categorically state what is required for, say, getting a visa from the French Embassy?

[Donutz]

Technically no stamps are required, unless necessary to verify that the document is legit. So in practise legalisation is often asked. Just a MoFA stamp should be enough, legalisation of the embassy of your own country really adds nothing to verify that the embassy you are applying add is dealing with a legit, official marriage. Registration (if even possible) in the EU nationals country is most certainly not a requirement but this too can make things easier as it's even less reason to doubt the legitimacy of the marriage. Infact you should be able to apply without marital papers if for some reason you cannot produce this but can make evident by any other means that you are married.

The EU handbook has this to say:

3.6. Supporting documents
In order to prove that the applicant has the right to be issued with an entry visa under the Directive, he must establish that he is a
beneficiary of the Directive. This is done by presenting documents relevant for the purposes of the three questions referred to above, i.e. proving that:
• there is an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any rights;
• the visa applicant is a family member (e.g. a marriage certificate, birthcertificate, proof of dependency, serious health grounds,
durability of partnerships ...) and his identity (passport); and
• the visa applicant accompanies or joins an EU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU
citizen already resides in the host Member State or a confirmation that the EU
citizen will travel to the host Member State).

It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have
the right of choice of the documentary evidence by which they wish to prove that they are
covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency ...) . Member States may,
however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the
existence of marriage), but should not refuse other means of proof.

For further information in relation to the documentation, see Commission Communication
COM (2009) 313 final 22.

3.7. Burden of proof
The burden of proof applicable in the framework of the visa application under the Directive is
twofold:
Firstly, it is up to the visa applicant to prove that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. He must
be able to provide documentary evidence foreseen above as he must be able to present evidence to support his claim.

If he fails to provide such evidence, the consulate can conclude that the applicant is not
entitled to the specific treatment under the Directive. Additional documents may not be required regarding the purpose of travel and means of subsistence (e.g. proof of accommodation, proof of cost of travelling),which is reflected in the exemption for family members of EU citizens from filling in the following fields of the visa application form: (...)"

How difficult or easy going an embassy is depends on the one you are applying add, from what I can tell shared on these and other forums the Dutch are pretty relaxed, the Spanish are one of the worst to deal with and the French are a bit difficult aswell.

In practise, the more fancy stamps, the smoother the process as the embassy has less things to make an issue about. Same so with evidence of your spouse joining you on your trip. In theory they only need to verify that you are (such as a statement by you and your spouse) but in practise many embassies ask for transport and/or accommodation reservation/bookings of some sort to verify this even though such questions need not be answered (marked with an * on the application form and more importantly not part of the requirements as explained in Directive 2004/38).

In theory Directive 2004/38 applications to any EU/EEA states should be smooth sailing: passports, marital paper and a statement from the EU and non-EU spouse about their travel plans should be enough for a free, swiftly issued visa to any EU nation except the one you are a national of. Sadly this most often is not the case for many Schengen countries or the UK for that matter.

IMHO For country specific experience I'd post in a topic of the country that will be your main destination. Should be topics around for the most popular nations, but if such topics are over a year or more old you may wish to start a new, dedicated topic.