Visit Visa For Thai Boyfriend - How To Overcome Problems

[gbswales]

We recently applied for my Thai boyfriend to visit me in the UK we debated between an education visa and a visitor visa because I had signed him up for an english summer school at my university for which he had been accepted. I was sponsoring him fully but because we were told it was difficult decided to use an agency (which I will not name here). The agency advised applying for a visitor visa with the course as part of the visit. This on the basis that the MAIN purpose of the trip was to spend time with me. I would mention here that we intended (intend) one day to apply for a civil partnership visa but because of our big age gap and the difficulty I have in spending much time in Thailand I felt it responsible to give him a chance to stay with me for a longer period than than a holiday. He has learnt very good english, in under a year, from self study and a part time course that he attends and I believed that the short full-time course would have benefited him greatly. He has an excellent character and has never been involved in the sex trade or anything like that - in fact he wont even go to a bar! I have good finances and was able to fully sponsor his trip and we had even booked a return ticket for him to show intent. STILL they turned it down- without even an interview. The grounds were that he did not have academic qualifications to show he could follow the course of study, even though the university had no entry requirements and even though this was not the MAIN reason for the visit. Secondly becuase they felt he could not prove that he intended to return to Thailand after the visit.

The poor young man (aged 20) is now in a catch 22 situation - he currently lives at home and helps his mother in her food shop while he studies english 3 days a week - if he finds a job - to prove stabillity then A- he must give up his english studies and B- he would not be able to get the time off work to come for more than a week or two.

We are minded to make another application for later in the year (without any educational ellement so for a shorter period of about 6 weeks) Any helpful advice would be most welcomed, especially from anyone who has overcome the "no collateral" in Thailand problem. (Flames about older and younger relationships will be ignored - our love is right for US and he is as committed as I am- and this is not the basis of the refusal)

[Jockstar]

I'm sure scouse will be able to help you more. But one of the main things the embassy look for is reason to return. If he has no job etc. Then they will look at it as if he has no plans to return. Thats all i can add to this topic. But scouse will be able top tell you more. Sorry i cant be of more help.

[gbswales]

I'm sure scouse will be able to help you more. But one of the main things the embassy look for is reason to return. If he has no job etc. Then they will look at it as if he has no plans to return. Thats all i can add to this topic. But scouse will be able top tell you more. Sorry i cant be of more help.

Thanks for your reply - I know this - but what Thai job would give him, 3 mornings a week off to study english and 10 weeks off to visit me and do a course in the UK? It is prejudice against poor people - plain and simple as I see it. If he had come here he would have been better equipped to get a job on his return.

This is the problem with the UK I am all for controlling people who overstay without permission but the way to do that is to keep a track of where visitors are and police it! If Thai organisation can manage to do this I am sure our police force and immigration could do likewise.

Maybe they should just ask the sponsor to put up a financial bond to the government to cover the eventuallity that they need to track him down.

The most iniquitous thing is that they have no representation or right of appeal!!

[atlastaname]

gbswales, i think we have corresponded on this months ago , but if i'm wrong accept my apologies. The story rings a bell. I think i said at the time i felt you had little if any chance of success and was roundly pannned by the optimists on here for being negative. Accurate but negative.

I have always said that i think (common sense, just have to look at the visa system)its government policy that "ordinary" Thais are really not welcome here and that is why they make it so difficult for those without property (majority of Thais i would guess) and /or without a long-standing good job (white collar type of thing) or without large funds OF THEIR OWN , to get a visa. They know that a large number of relationships are struck up each year and they also know that many of them will stand the test of time and will lead to the couple settling in the UK. I don't believe they like this thought much (why i can't imagine)and they do what they can to frustrate such relationships although they know in the end the genuine couple will always win.

You are unfortunately at the start of this process. You have the genuine relationship, the govt says we don't approve so we'll refuse it because it doesn't meet OUR criteria of genuine . Of course you will win in the end but you have to go through this seemingly compulsory period of misery where the govt makes your life hel_l in return for which they know you will find a way through eventually. A Civil Partnership visa is one answer although it comes with repercussions you need to give serious thought to. Its quite easy to get and , importantly , quite hard for them to refuse. Obviously you don't have to show reason to return as its not applicable , and you don't have to show any period of co-habitation. You only need to show you "have met" , plus all the usual financial and accomodation criteria. Importantly you have to show you intend to live together and this is the subjective bit that you will need to start planning for . If you do choose this route as your only option (and it may be your only option) then think how you will address this bit as its your only weak point.

Its all very well applying again for a shorter vv , but if you couldn't address reason to return before what will have changed in 6 months time? Why not contact a lawyer (h2o law are very hot on this..nichola carter) in the UK and get their opinion on your next best step. I believe they won't charge you for replying to an initial e-mail giving all the factual details . You can find many lawyers on the Lesbian and Gay immigration group website.

Keep us posted and Chok Dee !!

[the scouser]

It is going to be difficult as with a visit second application you are going to have to demonstrate that your boyfriend's circumstances are materially different to the first. However, stating an intention to visit for a shorter period, whilst not being enough to guarantee the visa is issued, will improve the acceptability of the application. Additionally, by the time of a subsequent application, you will have known each other for that extra bit of time which should assist in going some way to assuage the visa officer's doubts.

Whether you like it or not, the age difference is going to be a factor in the decision, and you should endeavour to present as much evidence as possible that your relationship is genuine.

Scouse.

[brunodog]

Unfortunately when you are having to document a relationship is genuine you will have to present personal information to the embassy. After we were declined the first time I took a far more structured approach to documenting/recording our relationship e.g. keeping fully itemised bills, screen prints of low cost dial numbers being used as they change, all postal receipts. It is a really brutal thing to have to do, but the end result is what you want.

Has your BF got any graduation ceremonies or presentations which may give another reason for him to return to Thailand after a holiday here?

Another possible reason to return is that overstaing a visa would make it impossible for your BF return to the UK if you ever did get married.

I think atlastaname made a couple of good points, in terms of approach try to think of this as the first step in a long process and you will win through in the end. The advice about civil partnerships I am not qualified to speak about but I believe that there are businesses which claim a 100% success rate for these applications, how true I don't know.

[atlastaname]

Unfortunately when you are having to document a relationship is genuine you will have to present personal information to the embassy. After we were declined the first time I took a far more structured approach to documenting/recording our relationship e.g. keeping fully itemised bills, screen prints of low cost dial numbers being used as they change, all postal receipts. It is a really brutal thing to have to do, but the end result is what you want.

Has your BF got any graduation ceremonies or presentations which may give another reason for him to return to Thailand after a holiday here?

Another possible reason to return is that overstaing a visa would make it impossible for your BF return to the UK if you ever did get married.

I think atlastaname made a couple of good points, in terms of approach try to think of this as the first step in a long process and you will win through in the end. The advice about civil partnerships I am not qualified to speak about but I believe that there are businesses which claim a 100% success rate for these applications, how true I don't know.

Basically this is good advise, although overstaying a visa (which is totally NOT reccommended!!) will not make it IMPOSSIBLE for him to come to the UK in future , but it will make it much much more difficult.

As all visa applications are dealt with by the visa officers at the BE Bangkok , no firm can offer 100% guarantees or indeed any guarantees at all. In the OP's case it may be worth getting advise but it will be without guarantees.

[GU22]

The grounds were that he did not have academic qualifications to show he could follow the course of study, even though the university had no entry requirements and even though this was not the MAIN reason for the visit. Secondly becuase they felt he could not prove that he intended to return to Thailand after the visit.

A lot here depends, I think, on how you presented the case. Did he say why he wanted/needed to come to the UK to study English, what his future plans were and how English qualifications would help him? Did he say why he needed to study in England when there are many well run English schools in Thailand that could have given him the same qualifications at a fraction of the cost?

What about the relationship with you? What evidence was provided? Phone bills, letters, e-mails, photographs etc.? Did you write a sponsors letter outlining the history of your relationship, the reason for visiting at this time (not to study, as you have said this was not the main reason) and what your future plans are together?

You may have provided all this, you may not. As the visa section is endeavouring to decide as many non settlement applications as possible on the documents alone (i.e. without an interview) then the documents have to cover all the angles. You cannot afford to assume something can be explained at the interview, because it's unlikely that you will get one.

If you are going to apply for another visit visa, you must make sure that all the objections raised in the refusal are covered, otherwise they will only refuse again.

The bright side to this is that your relationship is now on file at the embassy, which should make it easier to prove once you do decide to apply for a civil partnership visa.

[gbswales]

First i would like to say thank you for a lot of positive comment.

The advice about civil partnership is noted - my concern is that he should have the opportunity to live with me for longer than a short holiday, and in the UK, before he makes what is a very big committment. The problems with the last application were to some extent caused by the visa agency (no it was not one promising 100% success!) changing their minds at the last minute about the type of visa to go for. I had originally thought the visitor visa was the correct one but they advised education so all of my sponsorship letter was written that way. Unfortuntely we were up against a ticking clock - at the last moment they said that it would be better to apply as a visitor but to do the course as part of a visit. Fine - but then the visa receiving office made my b/f change it back to education again which made it look as though we were trying to pull the wool over the ECO's eyes. All very unfortunate however they do as somoene has said now have evidence of a realtionship, with photos an phone bills etc, and I do think a better case can be made - albeit based around a longer term intention to apply for a civil partnership visa.

I read on here time and again about the heartache caused by embassy decisions and all of it because they simply cant be bothered to police how long people stay in the UK - I have read here that the Thai authorities seem to manage this quite well.

I shall be visiting again in September (alas two weeks only) but as you say hopefully this will strengthen the case.

[atlastaname]

So what are you saying.. you will apply again in September for another vv or go for the CP one ??

[gbswales]

So what are you saying.. you will apply again in September for another vv or go for the CP one ??

The plan is to go for another visit visa in September - I think we can present a better argument that we did this time. I would still like him to be able to visit here and stay with me before making a bigger committment.

There is one fact we did not really bring out and that is the impossibility of my living in Thailand or staying there for more than about 6-8 weeks a year in total. I been from birth a hemophiliac which means that I can only get limited travel insurance for up to 30 days at a time and it would be totally impossible for me to get long term private health insurance - and with, even occasional, treatments costing anything up to £5,000 a time I could not afford health care there. My circumstances were not brought into the first application because the agency we used told us "we had a strong case" - ha!

I wish now I had stuck to going it alone with advice from here - would have saved 25,000 THB if nothing else.