Expectations?

[Jason DPC]

I have a Bachelor's Degree in English Language Learner Studies from an accredited U.S. university, but no previous classroom experience.  I've always been quite professional in all aspects of employment (not a slacker) and am not looking for a job, but rather a career.  My previous career (law enforcement) was cut short due to sustaining injuries that will no longer allow me to meet the physical requirements.

 

Part of me thinks I can expect a good job in a private school due to the degree I have (it's my understanding most English teachers in Thailand only have a TEFL certificate), and the other part of me thinks I can expect a government school job due to not having any previous classroom experience.  Perhaps I should mention I've been an instructor many times throughout my life, but it was in a professional capacity rather than in a grade school.

 

I would not mind cutting my teeth in a government school for a year or two in an effort to obtain some classroom experience before moving onto a private school.  But I don't know if that is something I should expect, or if I should aim higher.

[Yooyung]

You are right, there are many teachers here that do not have a degree. This means that in theory they cannot get legal to teach here.....ok there are other ways to go about working legally here, such as if the employer is willing to change your title at work to something like 'assistant teacher' BUT you wouldnt want to rely on it. Basically Thailand is get pretty strict about the enforcement of this whole needing a degree thingy. I would say out of all the farang  I know teaching here MOST of them dont have any kind of degree at all. Sure they have a lot of experience and a lot of them do a damn good job. However, life for them is going to to increasingly more difficult as time passes. I think what we are gradually going to see is less and less native speakers in the classrooms. The ones that are left MAY be in a god position, as long as they are willing to dance to the tune that the Thai Teachers Council is playing.

 

I am now enrolling in a Masters degree program. I am doing this partly because they are requiring it (my degree is NOT in education) and partly because I want to do it. Its going to cost me, and I am going to need to work on it part time for a while. In the long run it will benefit me to have this level of qualification regardless of where I am in the world. If you come here fresh off the plane you will have time up your sleeve to work out if Thailand is somewhere you want to stay for an extended period. IF you come to the conclusion, as I did many years ago that you like living here, and want to stay you will need to get verified if your degree is enough by the lovely people at Karusapah (the Thai teachers council) You may get lucky, if your degree is the equivalent of a Bachelor of education you will get the golden ticket. If not, you will need to do further study in order to satisfy them. If you need to do further study you need to ask yourself if its worth it.

 

As far as 'cutting your teeth' in a government school is concerned.......well, just stay away. If you can get a cushy little job in a private, well run primary school then do it. I have worked at both. A lot of  Thai government schools are an absolute joke. You have to teach perhaps 50 kids in a non airconditioned classroom, you may be lucky and actually have fans that work....there may be ten kids at the front of the room that are actually interested. This situation is ok as long as your expectations arent too high. Personally, I am sick of it. I like to see progress sometimes. I also teach in what is called an 'IEP' (Intensive English Program) within a government school. This program is slightly better, but the level of English that my students have (many cannot read even basic English even at 14 years old) makes teaching even basic role plays a REAL challenge. Basically there are HUGE gaps in learining at government schools. If a kid has not been taught to read basic English by the time they are in the first year of high school........My advice, if you are good with younger kids you will be better off teaching them CORRECTLY when they are at primary school level.

 

Thailand is changing more now than I have seen since first coming here back in 2001. Its getting harder to teach here without the right qualifications. I dont see this changing now. For people who can get legal though, such as yourself with a REAL degree from a REAL university...and not from Kao Sarn road, life here can be pretty good. You may have more hoops to jump through like I have but, I am prepared to do it. I thank god that I chose to go back home and get a degree back in 2007 when things started tightening up. I had friends at that time laugh at me and tell me  I was overreacting. Now those people are getting rather nervous and I am the one that is laughing. I still have work to do to meet the requirements but I am at a comfortable place right now.

 

Give it a go. You have a degree, you are a native speaker. Thailand can be a really great place to live inspite of what all the old (and young) codgers say on here. I love living here and want to stay. Get on a plane, get some nice clothes, polish your shoes, make a presentable CV brush your teeth, learn some Thai and hit the streets. A lot of jobs are not advertised, just get a map of the area you want to stay in and go to ALL the schools.  

 

Good luck

[Jason DPC]

Thanks for the replay.

 

You've confirmed my suspicions regarding government schools.  It's unfortunate, but such is life.  I'm not going to Thailand to attempt the impossible, like change their education system or teach the unteachable, and it would be dumb of me to try.   Preferably I'd like to teach in an English Program at a private school, but there are qualifications needing to be met first.

 

Although I already have a Bachelor's degree specifically for teaching English, I'm in a Master's of Arts in Education with a specialization in English Language Learner Studies.  I am doing this, one, to ensure my qualifications for being a teacher pass with flying colors in the eyes of the Thai government, and two, because as I stated before I want this to be my career and not just a job.

 

I'll continue working towards my Master's degree so when I get my feet on the ground in Thailand, I'll at least stand a better chance of being successful, despite my lack of classroom experience, which will improve with time.

[Yooyung]

To be honest....NOTHING will prepare you for the chaos that is working in the Thai education system! Just come here, get your feet wet, dont stress the small stuff. To be able to live here successfully you kind of mmmmm....how do I put this...need to dumb yourself down a little. If you expect things to work in a logical way like in the west you will get frustrated very easily. People have a strange way of going about doing things here. I am used to it but some people just cant handle it and eventually leave. If you are expecting 'German efficiency' as a workmate of mine once did.....you may as well not come. Thai's can be alot of fun to work with as long as you just go with the flow. Let them screw up and sit back and marvel at how....somehow, eventually things get done!

[Jason DPC]

Having previously lived in Thailand for a few years, and being married to a Thai woman, I'm quite aware of the laid back style of Thais…it's one reason we are moving back there.  There's nothing wrong with efficiency, but sometimes it's nice to do things a different way.  I'm adaptable to my situation and surroundings.

[Yooyung]

Being married to a Thai is a good advantage to have. My wife is a teacher and often accompanies me when I have to deal with Thai bureaucracy. It doesnt matter how well you learn to speak Thai, its handy to have a Thai person with you at times, someone who genuinelly has your best interests at heart.

 

By the sounds of it you are in a very good position to come here. You tick a lot of boxes that employers will be looking for, minus the experience. Dont forget language schools as a place to get your feet wet. Some are really shoddy, but some are pretty good.

[Jason DPC]

Thanks…I've not ruled anything out when it comes to gaining experience, to include language schools, or even spending a year teaching English in a less than desirable place such as the Middle East.

[Kf6vci]

You should find a job pdq. and you can save the money for a TEFL certificate. Go for it, hope you will like it.

Schools are crying out for NES and many now add "or Europeans".

[simon43]

The ones that are left MAY be in a god position

 

Is that a typo or not?

Edited August 7, 2014 by simon43

[benj005]

What's the big deal about needing a degree to teach?  It will raise the bar and weed out the bad teachers. I don't see anything wrong with it. I've read that there are a lot of people here who don't even have a college degree. I've also read that a lot of criminals come to Thailand to teach because the Thai system is lacking. This could never happen in other countries.  

 

I taught in South Korea for 2 years The process to get a working visa is a long one, and it takes many months. I needed a comprehensive FBI background check, my bachelors degree notarized and apostilled, an updated passport, and an unopened college transcript. My degree is in education so I guess I'm not your normal ESL teacher. 

 

If you want to teach you will do what's necessary and get the correct paperwork. 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2014 by benj005

[Yooyung]

 

The ones that are left MAY be in a god position

 

Is that a typo or not?

 

 

Not at all my friend....why I am floating on my cloud as I write this......

[aarontendo]

I've just a few questions and points to make, and if it comes across the wrong way then please feel free to tell me so...

 

What the heck is a bachelors degree in English langauge learner studies?  Is it attached to something like a linguistics department?  Just professional curiousity!

 

Also, is the degree you're looking for in specific Masters of Arts in Education?  Do you have an option for an M.Ed instead? I think that *may* be a little easier to fly by...though to be honest you may be better off doing a one year intensive teaching license and masters program if you're still back home. 

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that Masters of Education in X may look better than Masters of Arts in Education. If your degree reads as "Master of Arts in English Language Learner Studies" then I think it may still not be what TCT is looking for...

[benj005]

A bachelors degree doesn't cut it anymore? I have a bachelors in special education with certs in kindergarten. Do all teachers need master degrees?

In Korea any degree will do as long as you have your TEFL. It doesn't have to be in education. Obviously if you have a degree in education you're going to stand out and be in a much better position. Its not a requirement unless you want yo go the international route. Heck, I have a buddy in South Korea and he landed a position at a Christian International School and he doesn't even have a teachers license. His degree is in photography.

[Yooyung]

I've just a few questions and points to make, and if it comes across the wrong way then please feel free to tell me so...

 

What the heck is a bachelors degree in English langauge learner studies?  Is it attached to something like a linguistics department?  Just professional curiousity!

 

Also, is the degree you're looking for in specific Masters of Arts in Education?  Do you have an option for an M.Ed instead? I think that *may* be a little easier to fly by...though to be honest you may be better off doing a one year intensive teaching license and masters program if you're still back home. 

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that Masters of Education in X may look better than Masters of Arts in Education. If your degree reads as "Master of Arts in English Language Learner Studies" then I think it may still not be what TCT is looking for...

I think you may well be right about that. There is the sticking point. I think it needs to be an Masters in Education.....in something. I dont know if Karusapah will accept the Master of Arts. I know, I know...its dumb but there it is! I am 99.9 % sure that I am going to start the Masters in Education technology from Assumption. This course is completely online AND apparently its ok with those lovely people at the teachers council. You need to investigate thoroughly before starting ANY course in effort to get a teaching licence. The information is sketchy at the moment BUT a Masters in Education in ________ should be what they are after.

[aarontendo]

Yeah, get's even worse when you throw a M.A.T into the mix...which in my humble opinion is the purest masters degree there is in teaching...

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

 

[Kitbaikitmah]

To be honest....NOTHING will prepare you for the chaos that is working in the Thai education system! Just come here, get your feet wet, dont stress the small stuff. To be able to live here successfully you kind of mmmmm....how do I put this...need to dumb yourself down a little. If you expect things to work in a logical way like in the west you will get frustrated very easily. People have a strange way of going about doing things here. I am used to it but some people just cant handle it and eventually leave. If you are expecting 'German efficiency' as a workmate of mine once did.....you may as well not come. Thai's can be alot of fun to work with as long as you just go with the flow. Let them screw up and sit back and marvel at how....somehow, eventually things get done!

Utterly agree. Reading the above post will save you many wasted hours searching.
Prep....arrive....then survive thinging on your feet

[KhnomKhnom]

NES I talk to got a teaching job the day they applied, degree or not, skills or not.  I don't know if they got a Work Permit.

 

The demand for NES is so high, a guy with your degree should be TEACHING TEACHERS.  The really bad thing about all Thailand education is the fact that teaching is an art and a skill.  Knowing how to weld and effectively teaching welding are two different things.  Walk-in NES hired in desperation to get a warm body is not hiring a TEACHER necessarily.

 

Further, I think I could sustain the argument that teaching Thai people is very different from teaching Americans.  The differences do necessitate a change in many techniques that need to be learned, ideally, prior to entering a classroom.

[Doc46]

It does not matter what degree or paper you have got if you don't speak Thai you can't teach  a Thai person English,,,,You can't explain and they don't understand,,,That is the main reason that Thai students know F<A< English.

[benj005]

It does not matter what degree or paper you have got if you don't speak Thai you can't teach  a Thai person English,,,,You can't explain and they don't understand,,,That is the main reason that Thai students know F

This is totally untrue. I've worked in a public school setting with s real ESL teacher who had a real degree and she didn't speak Spanish.

I've taught in South Korea for 2 years and I didn't speak Korean.

[zeichen]

"In Korea any degree will do as long as you have your TEFL. It doesn't have to be in education. Obviously if you have a degree in education you're going to stand out and be in a much better position. Its not a requirement unless you want yo go the international route. Heck, I have a buddy in South Korea and he landed a position at a Christian International School and he doesn't even have a teachers license. His degree is in photography."

 

First of all Korea doesn't require a TEFL for the visa. If you were one of the masses who got hired for the public school jobs between 2006-2012 a TEFL gave you a higher salary but wasn't originally a requirement It became mandatory for public school jobs in 2010 if you didn't have other credentials.

 

Thailand has made it mandatory to have a degree in education as a requirement for the teacher's license.

 

"I've read that there are a lot of people here who don't even have a college degree. I've also read that a lot of criminals come to Thailand to teach because the Thai system is lacking. This could never happen in other countries."

 

HAHA of course it happens in other countries. Why do you think that Korea made it mandatory to have an FBI check back in 2008? There were a few major arrests in 2007-2008.

 

Korea though goes to the extreme and any record at all prohibits you from getting a job. In my opinion getting arrested for an OUI or a minor offense back in college/high school really shouldn't keep you from being a teacher but in Korea it does.

 

Thailand requires a CBC but state checks are accepted. China also requires a CBC now but they never used to in the past. 

 

 

Having a degree in education isn't enough to get an international school job anymore. You need to have experience, license and ability.

 

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Jason DPC;

 

Go for it. The rewards (internal accomplishment) you will receive from making a difference in the life of even one motivated student will outweigh all the BS you will wade through.

 

Good luck.

[Maroon Watcher]

I also was informed that Korea could be "armchair" teaching.

 

There was also a guy on Youtube that broadcast that
"he was not actually expected to teach [professionally], just to keep the students happy and let them enjoy themselves"

 

I was given similar instructions here...but I actually 'force' (push) them to learn basic English (They are aged 16-20)

 

I try to help them construct basic sentences, give them an insight to grammar and tenses -

 

without just spouting text for them to copy into their text books.

 

If you have no experience, a TEFL is somewhat useful.

 

 

A bachelors degree doesn't cut it anymore? I have a bachelors in special education with certs in kindergarten. Do all teachers need master degrees?

In Korea any degree will do as long as you have your TEFL. It doesn't have to be in education. Obviously if you have a degree in education you're going to stand out and be in a much better position. Its not a requirement unless you want yo go the international route. Heck, I have a buddy in South Korea and he landed a position at a Christian International School and he doesn't even have a teachers license. His degree is in photography.

 

[Suradit69]

I have a Bachelor's Degree in English Language Learner Studies from an accredited U.S. university, but no previous classroom experience.

 

 

So if you feel you academically prepared to do a good job teaching English, why not teach in the US for a couple of years? If you get hired and are obliged to do a good job there while on probation, you'll be better prepared to teach and be better able to sell yourself to a school here with the glowing testimonials you'll bring with you. If you can't get hired or fall on your face there, why inflict yourself on students here?

[Jason DPC]

It does not matter what degree or paper you have got if you don't speak Thai you can't teach  a Thai person English,,,,You can't explain and they don't understand,,,That is the main reason that Thai students know F<A< English.

Seriously?  You're obviously not a teacher or have never studied education if you think a teacher must be able to speak a student's native language before they can teach them English.  I didn't speak my son's native language (baby babble) when he was young, yet I was successful in teaching him English. 

[Jason DPC]

 

I have a Bachelor's Degree in English Language Learner Studies from an accredited U.S. university, but no previous classroom experience.

 

 

So if you feel you academically prepared to do a good job teaching English, why not teach in the US for a couple of years? If you get hired and are obliged to do a good job there while on probation, you'll be better prepared to teach and be better able to sell yourself to a school here with the glowing testimonials you'll bring with you. If you can't get hired or fall on your face there, why inflict yourself on students here?

 

I guess I could flip that around and say, why should I subject American students to my teaching when I can first try it out on Thai students?  Why should those who graduate from a university in X state go to Y state to subject students to their teaching when they should just stay in X state to do so?

 

Go back under your bridge troll.  Nothing for you to see here.

[Jason DPC]

I've just a few questions and points to make, and if it comes across the wrong way then please feel free to tell me so...

 

What the heck is a bachelors degree in English langauge learner studies?  Is it attached to something like a linguistics department?  Just professional curiousity!

 

Also, is the degree you're looking for in specific Masters of Arts in Education?  Do you have an option for an M.Ed instead? I think that *may* be a little easier to fly by...though to be honest you may be better off doing a one year intensive teaching license and masters program if you're still back home. 

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that Masters of Education in X may look better than Masters of Arts in Education. If your degree reads as "Master of Arts in English Language Learner Studies" then I think it may still not be what TCT is looking for...

An English language learner is a student learning English.  English Language Learner Studies is the study of those learning English.  There are many combinations of words to describe this area of study (TEFL, ESL, etc), and ELL is just one of them.

 

I'm confused about the "Master's of Education" wording requirement.  In the States, and we all know America is the only place that really matters  , it is referred to as a Master's of Arts in Education.  Some areas of study fall under the sciences (Master's of Science in Such and Such) and some fall under the Arts.  But the reference of "Arts" has nothing to do with finger painting. 

 

My current degree reads, "Master of Arts in English Language Learner Studies."  The Master's degree will read, "Master of Arts in Education."

[benj005]

"In Korea any degree will do as long as you have your TEFL. It doesn't have to be in education. Obviously if you have a degree in education you're going to stand out and be in a much better position. Its not a requirement unless you want yo go the international route. Heck, I have a buddy in South Korea and he landed a position at a Christian International School and he doesn't even have a teachers license. His degree is in photography."

 

First of all Korea doesn't require a TEFL for the visa. If you were one of the masses who got hired for the public school jobs between 2006-2012 a TEFL gave you a higher salary but wasn't originally a requirement It became mandatory for public school jobs in 2010 if you didn't have other credentials.

 

Thailand has made it mandatory to have a degree in education as a requirement for the teacher's license.

 

"I've read that there are a lot of people here who don't even have a college degree. I've also read that a lot of criminals come to Thailand to teach because the Thai system is lacking. This could never happen in other countries."

 

HAHA of course it happens in other countries. Why do you think that Korea made it mandatory to have an FBI check back in 2008? There were a few major arrests in 2007-2008.

 

Korea though goes to the extreme and any record at all prohibits you from getting a job. In my opinion getting arrested for an OUI or a minor offense back in college/high school really shouldn't keep you from being a teacher but in Korea it does.

 

Thailand requires a CBC but state checks are accepted. China also requires a CBC now but they never used to in the past. 

 

 

Having a degree in education isn't enough to get an international school job anymore. You need to have experience, license and ability.

 

 

True, South Korea doesn't require a TEFL for a working visa. I still think this is true in hagwons. I've met a few people who didn't have their TEFL certificates and they were teaching. This was in 2012. 

 

The comprehensive FBI background check was mandatory because pedophiles were crossing state lines, claiming residency and applying for teaching positions in South Korea. If someone committed a crime in  New Jersey they could simply go into Pennsylvania and claim residency. When a background check was completed they would have a clean record. In reality, they should never have been around young children. I shouldn't have said that it would never happen in other countries. My fault.

 

About International Schools...

 

It depends on the international school. If the school is a top tier International school it's going to be difficult to secure a position unless you have the track record plus the many certs that they are looking for. On the other hand there are a lot of 3rd tier International Schools who become a bit desperate and their requirements are less strict. My buddy doesn't even have a teacher's license, and he has only taught in hagwons. He has never taught in a public school in America. I know most International schools want at least 2 years experience from a western accredited school. Hagwons normally don't count. I have another buddy who has taught mainly in hagwons, and he's teaching in an International school in China. You never know.   

[NoshowJones]

It does not matter what degree or paper you have got if you don't speak Thai you can't teach  a Thai person English,,,,You can't explain and they don't understand,,,That is the main reason that Thai students know F<A< English.

 

What utter nonsense.
 

[aarontendo]

 

I've just a few questions and points to make, and if it comes across the wrong way then please feel free to tell me so...

 

What the heck is a bachelors degree in English langauge learner studies?  Is it attached to something like a linguistics department?  Just professional curiousity!

 

Also, is the degree you're looking for in specific Masters of Arts in Education?  Do you have an option for an M.Ed instead? I think that *may* be a little easier to fly by...though to be honest you may be better off doing a one year intensive teaching license and masters program if you're still back home. 

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that Masters of Education in X may look better than Masters of Arts in Education. If your degree reads as "Master of Arts in English Language Learner Studies" then I think it may still not be what TCT is looking for...

An English language learner is a student learning English.  English Language Learner Studies is the study of those learning English.  There are many combinations of words to describe this area of study (TEFL, ESL, etc), and ELL is just one of them.

 

I'm confused about the "Master's of Education" wording requirement.  In the States, and we all know America is the only place that really matters  , it is referred to as a Master's of Arts in Education.  Some areas of study fall under the sciences (Master's of Science in Such and Such) and some fall under the Arts.  But the reference of "Arts" has nothing to do with finger painting. 

 

My current degree reads, "Master of Arts in English Language Learner Studies."  The Master's degree will read, "Master of Arts in Education."

 

Ah gotcha thanks for the info, yeah I've not heard about English Language Learner Studies, but TEFL ESL EFL etc. for sure. I was wondering it the program took a more socio-linguistics approach to it's course.

 

Well, there are a few major ways of wording it back home in America, hence why I bring it up.  The three that come to mind immediately:

 

Masters of Education (M.Ed) with some sort of subject.  For example, mine reads as an M.Ed TESOL

Masters of Teaching (M.A.T) with some sort of subject.  For example, MAT Elementary Education

Masters of Arts (MA) with various accompanying subjects.

 

I'd love to hear someone else chime in, but from what I've heard from others I've worked with unless your degree says "education" it in very specifically it causes a problem for TCT and teaching licenses.  So, if your degree reads "Masters of Arts: Education" you'd probably be ok and not have to jump the exam hoops for a teaching license in Thailand. If it reads "Masters of Arts in English Language Learner Studies" it gets more difficult...

 

For what it's worth, I've heard that even MAT degrees dont cut it, again I don't knowhow true that is just sort of office talk.