Ukraine crisis: Putin orders retaliatory sanctions

[Harsh Jones]

I am Dutch. There are just as many people blaming the US for meddling in forign countries affairs. Which is what started it all.

There's a huge difference between "meddling" in foreign affairs and invading and annexing a sovergen country's territory. Huge difference. I guarantee Russia is meddling also in several countries foreign affairs. Like Syria. And let's not forget Georgia.

Don't be so one sided. This could all have been avoided easily. No invasion would equal no current crisis. Blame is fully on Putin for this one. Impossible to place blame anywhere else.

American was in the wrong for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia is in the wrong for invading Ukraine.

Russia moved into Crimea to protect its military assets which Russia had a lease on.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kharkiv_Pact Then a referendum was called and the people voted to separate and join back to Russia.

If the US did not aid in toppling the government in Ukraine, the Crimea (Russian territory in 1953) referendum would not have happened. The meddling in Ukraine was the first act and it was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum.

This is the exact process that the US endorsed in Kosovo in the 90's. Except the US bombed the region and Putin didn't bomb anything.

[Harsh Jones]

From ZeroHedge

Russia is by far Europe's largest net export partner for food.. and that highlighted column is about to disappear through Russian sanctions, likely pressing Europe into a trade deficit.

Source: Eurostat

[lovetotravel]

I am Dutch. There are just as many people blaming the US for meddling in forign countries affairs. Which is what started it all.

There's a huge difference between "meddling" in foreign affairs and invading and annexing a sovergen country's territory. Huge difference. I guarantee Russia is meddling also in several countries foreign affairs. Like Syria. And let's not forget Georgia.

Don't be so one sided. This could all have been avoided easily. No invasion would equal no current crisis. Blame is fully on Putin for this one. Impossible to place blame anywhere else.

American was in the wrong for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia is in the wrong for invading Ukraine.

Russia moved into Crimea to protect its military assets which Russia had a lease on.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kharkiv_Pact Then a referendum was called and the people voted to separate and join back to Russia.

If the US did not aid in toppling the government in Ukraine, the Crimea (Russian territory in 1953) referendum would not have happened. The meddling in Ukraine was the first act and it was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum.

This is the exact process that the US endorsed in Kosovo in the 90's. Except the US bombed the region and Putin didn't bomb anything.

Understood. But if the lease goes south, you just move your assets out. Many countries have done this over the years. And many didn't resort to an invasion to protect their assets which are actually located in another country's sovereign territory. That is a violation of international law.

The referendum is highly contested internationally. It should have been done according to the Ukraine's laws.

[Harsh Jones]

I am Dutch. There are just as many people blaming the US for meddling in forign countries affairs. Which is what started it all.

There's a huge difference between "meddling" in foreign affairs and invading and annexing a sovergen country's territory. Huge difference. I guarantee Russia is meddling also in several countries foreign affairs. Like Syria. And let's not forget Georgia.

Don't be so one sided. This could all have been avoided easily. No invasion would equal no current crisis. Blame is fully on Putin for this one. Impossible to place blame anywhere else.

American was in the wrong for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia is in the wrong for invading Ukraine.

Russia moved into Crimea to protect its military assets which Russia had a lease on.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kharkiv_Pact Then a referendum was called and the people voted to separate and join back to Russia.

If the US did not aid in toppling the government in Ukraine, the Crimea (Russian territory in 1953) referendum would not have happened. The meddling in Ukraine was the first act and it was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum.

This is the exact process that the US endorsed in Kosovo in the 90's. Except the US bombed the region and Putin didn't bomb anything.

Understood. But if the lease goes south, you just move your assets out. Many countries have done this over the years. And many didn't resort to an invasion to protect their assets which are actually located in another country's sovereign territory. That is a violation of international law.

The referendum is highly contested internationally. It should have been done according to the Ukraine's laws.

Under Ukrainian law, Crimea is considered an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine,^[5] which is governed by the Constitution of Crimea.

Imagine Putin was meddling in Mexico and then suddenly the pro US government fell there. And the US had a military lease on Baja California. To think that the US would walk away is just not possible.

And just imagine the Baja in place of Crimea when you read this:

The modern history of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783. In 1921 the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created. This republic was dissolved in 1945, and the Crimea became a province first of the Russian SSR (1945-1954) and then the Ukrainian SSR (1954-1991). Since 1991 it has had the status of an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine.

[h90]

I am Dutch. There are just as many people blaming the US for meddling in forign countries affairs. Which is what started it all.

There's a huge difference between "meddling" in foreign affairs and invading and annexing a sovergen country's territory. Huge difference. I guarantee Russia is meddling also in several countries foreign affairs. Like Syria. And let's not forget Georgia.

Don't be so one sided. This could all have been avoided easily. No invasion would equal no current crisis. Blame is fully on Putin for this one. Impossible to place blame anywhere else.

American was in the wrong for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia is in the wrong for invading Ukraine.

Russia moved into Crimea to protect its military assets which Russia had a lease on.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kharkiv_Pact Then a referendum was called and the people voted to separate and join back to Russia.

If the US did not aid in toppling the government in Ukraine, the Crimea (Russian territory in 1953) referendum would not have happened. The meddling in Ukraine was the first act and it was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum.

This is the exact process that the US endorsed in Kosovo in the 90's. Except the US bombed the region and Putin didn't bomb anything.

Understood. But if the lease goes south, you just move your assets out. Many countries have done this over the years. And many didn't resort to an invasion to protect their assets which are actually located in another country's sovereign territory. That is a violation of international law.

The referendum is highly contested internationally. It should have been done according to the Ukraine's laws.

So you seriously think that the Ukraine who just decided to ban Russian language would have allowed a referendum and let them go?

The results were overwhelming and also the minorities voted for Russia. What the people want (=Democracy) is more important than if the process isn't according to the law. The law is to support the people not to suppress them.

[lovetotravel]

So you seriously think that the Ukraine who just decided to ban Russian language would have allowed a referendum and let them go?

The results were overwhelming and also the minorities voted for Russia. What the people want (=Democracy) is more important than if the process isn't according to the law. The law is to support the people not to suppress them.

Absolutely not! Just like your country probably wouldn't let a small area secede unless put to a full national referendum. Right????

I lived in the state of Michigan for several years. There were many attempts by the upper peninsula residents to get themselves setup as a separate state, not part of the state of Michigan. I saw t-shirts, campaign posters, etc. They never got enough support, but they sure tried. Now, what if Canada had helped them? Gave them money, weapons, military support, etc. Would that be OK then? Again, absolutely not.

It's got to be done like it is in Scotland. Or Puerto Rico. I'm actually amazed at how many countries are dealing with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession

[Publicus]

So you truely think that this proxy war in Ukraine is simply because Putin is a bad man ? That wasn't elected democratically enough ?

The question is juvenile.

NATO was the one in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum. So your claims that Russia is simply on a war path for more land and resources is what is juvenile. As is your claims that the biggest oil energy companies in the world being in Russia, poses no threat to petrodollar hegemony. You went so far as to say that the US could release oil from it's strategic reserves to take down the price of oil. If Russia is of no threat to petrodollar hegemony , why would the US even consider this ?

Diplomats are trained to see things from both sides. I see very little of that going on in this thread.

it seemed to me things really started ratcheting up just after the announcement of the BRICS development bank - 43 percent of the world’s population, $4.4 trillion in currency reserves, and generally a healthier economic growth than Europe or the U.S

Your point is well taken.......

.....However.....

The BRICS are falling.

They are Bricks without mortar.

The BRICS can only compete poorly against the IMF and the World Bank.

And where are the BRICS when Putin needs them, as in now.

The BRICS are piling up and currently are lying low, all for good reason.

BRICS Without Mortar

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-fall-of-the-brics-cm251955#ixzz38poAFqXS

The Fall of the BRICs?

Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/why-brics-will-not-work-by-joseph-s--nye#8B28IzqUOHwIC11K.99

The EU-US TransAtlantic Partnership free trade agreement currently being negotiated will join economies that account for almost 50% of global GDP, the vast amount of the world's wealth creation and a third of global trade.

The TransPacific Partnership free trade agreement involving 12 Pacific Rim countries excluding the CCP-PRC is in its final stages of negotiations and will integrate economies totaling more than $24 trillion.

EU-US Free Trade Agreement: End of the Asian Century?

http://thediplomat.com/2013/02/eu-us-free-trade-agreement-end-of-the-asian-century/

Japan says Pacific trade talks agree broadly on labor, health issues

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-07-12/news/sns-rt-us-trade-pacific-20140705_1_pacific-trade-talks-tpp-talks-trans-pacific-partnership

The BRICS cannot compete against this global integration of market economics, democratic systems, the rule of law.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Publicus

[lovetotravel]

Under Ukrainian law, Crimea is considered an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine,^[5] which is governed by the Constitution of Crimea.

Imagine Putin was meddling in Mexico and then suddenly the pro US government fell there. And the US had a military lease on Baja California. To think that the US would walk away is just not possible.

And just imagine the Baja in place of Crimea when you read this:

The modern history of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783. In 1921 the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created. This republic was dissolved in 1945, and the Crimea became a province first of the Russian SSR (1945-1954) and then the Ukrainian SSR (1954-1991). Since 1991 it has had the status of an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine.

Wait. I'm confused. The Crimea invasion is nothing like what you describe in the Baja. Completely different.

The US has walked away from various leases. The Philippines is a biggie. No invasion.

[Publicus]

There's a huge difference between "meddling" in foreign affairs and invading and annexing a sovergen country's territory. Huge difference. I guarantee Russia is meddling also in several countries foreign affairs. Like Syria. And let's not forget Georgia.

Don't be so one sided. This could all have been avoided easily. No invasion would equal no current crisis. Blame is fully on Putin for this one. Impossible to place blame anywhere else.

American was in the wrong for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia is in the wrong for invading Ukraine.

Russia moved into Crimea to protect its military assets which Russia had a lease on.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kharkiv_Pact Then a referendum was called and the people voted to separate and join back to Russia.

If the US did not aid in toppling the government in Ukraine, the Crimea (Russian territory in 1953) referendum would not have happened. The meddling in Ukraine was the first act and it was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum.

This is the exact process that the US endorsed in Kosovo in the 90's. Except the US bombed the region and Putin didn't bomb anything.

Understood. But if the lease goes south, you just move your assets out. Many countries have done this over the years. And many didn't resort to an invasion to protect their assets which are actually located in another country's sovereign territory. That is a violation of international law.

The referendum is highly contested internationally. It should have been done according to the Ukraine's laws.

Under Ukrainian law, Crimea is considered an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine,^[5] which is governed by the Constitution of Crimea.

Imagine Putin was meddling in Mexico and then suddenly the pro US government fell there. And the US had a military lease on Baja California. To think that the US would walk away is just not possible.

And just imagine the Baja in place of Crimea when you read this:

The modern history of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783. In 1921 the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created. This republic was dissolved in 1945, and the Crimea became a province first of the Russian SSR (1945-1954) and then the Ukrainian SSR (1954-1991). Since 1991 it has had the status of an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine.

The vehicles of the 29 battalions of Russian combat troops poised at the border of eastern Ukraine already have "Peacekeeper" painted on them.

Moscow has already recognized the two cities of Donetsk as the "Republic of Donetsk" with its own Moscow installed "prime minister" and Luhansk as the "Republic of Luhansk" and its Moscow installed "prime minister." The fact is each city remains a city of Ukraine. The Baltic states have officially called the new pro-Moscow regime in each city "terrorists."

The fear at Nato is that Moscow is ready to enter eastern Ukraine with 20,000 troops in its best divisions of infantry, armor, artillery, air forces on the pretext the new "prime ministers" of the two new "republics" have asked for assistance and to protect Russians in the cities and the region.

And yes, the Russian Empire annexed Crimea in 1783. It was one of dozens or regions from Eurasia to the Pacific annexed by the Russian Empire.

The Crimea referendum was conducted without voter lists or rolls, absent secret ballot and in the presence of the Russian military. I'm surprised they didn't elect anyone from here as new prime minister of Crimea.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Publicus

[F430murci]

NATO was the one in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum. So your claims that Russia is simply on a war path for more land and resources is what is juvenile. As is your claims that the biggest oil energy companies in the world being in Russia, poses no threat to petrodollar hegemony. You went so far as to say that the US could release oil from it's strategic reserves to take down the price of oil. If Russia is of no threat to petrodollar hegemony , why would the US even consider this ?

Diplomats are trained to see things from both sides. I see very little of that going on in this thread.

it seemed to me things really started ratcheting up just after the announcement of the BRICS development bank - 43 percent of the worlds population, $4.4 trillion in currency reserves, and generally a healthier economic growth than Europe or the U.S

Not shocking when half the stuff you read and link on here are conspiracy theory websites and "urbanlegend" "Netlore" websites. Heck, you have even linked many articles that are several years old as current events and link articles that say exactly the opposite of the proposition for which they are cited. No wonder you are so dang confused.

Edited August 8, 2014 by F430murci

[Harsh Jones]

Under Ukrainian law, Crimea is considered an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine,^[5] which is governed by the Constitution of Crimea.

Imagine Putin was meddling in Mexico and then suddenly the pro US government fell there. And the US had a military lease on Baja California. To think that the US would walk away is just not possible.

And just imagine the Baja in place of Crimea when you read this:

The modern history of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783. In 1921 the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created. This republic was dissolved in 1945, and the Crimea became a province first of the Russian SSR (1945-1954) and then the Ukrainian SSR (1954-1991). Since 1991 it has had the status of an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine.

Wait. I'm confused. The Crimea invasion is nothing like what you describe in the Baja. Completely different.

The US has walked away from various leases. The Philippines is a biggie. No invasion.

Crimea being back in Russia, is the status quo. Crimea being a republic of Ukraine was the anomaly. Just look at history.

US bases in Asia is a laughable comparison

[metisdead]

Posts that have exceeded the nested quote limit has been removed because it was too messed up to make head or tail of who said what. Please try to minimize nested quotes to the one or two that you are actually replying to. Thanks.

Edit: Off-topic posts and replies have also been deleted.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Scott

[Asiantravel]

Ukraine may block all transit from Russia in sanctions row –PM

Ukraine ready to impose sanctions against any transit via its territory, including air flights and gas supplies to Europe, Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Friday.

http://rt.com/business/178988-russia-ukraine-gas-transit/

Edited August 8, 2014 by Asiantravel

[lovetotravel]

Crimea being back in Russia, is the status quo. Crimea being a republic of Ukraine was the anomaly. Just look at history.

US bases in Asia is a laughable comparison

How far back in history do you want to go?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century before falling to the Russian Empire and being organised as its Taurida Oblast in 1783.

Seems invading territories is part of the Russian psyche???

[lovetotravel]

I am Dutch. There are just as many people blaming the US for meddling in forign countries affairs. Which is what started it all.

Almost every country has had it's "dark" moments:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/colonial-atrocities-explode-myth-of-dutch-tolerance-1439153.html

In the Netherlands there is a memory hole about this period, while volume after volume has been produced describing the horrors of life under the German occupation or the savagery of the Japanese forces in Dutch colonies in the Far East. The Dutch, quick to moralise about human rights abuses by other nations, have never properly examined or debated the unpleasant history of their own experience in the colonial war. Dutch society seems to suffer from collective amnesia when it comes to the murderous behaviour of the soldiers who tried unsuccessfully to suppress the Indonesian independence movement in the jungles of Java and other islands almost 50 years ago. Young conscript soldiers, acting under orders, put numerous hamlets to the torch and butchered men, women and children.

No country is 100% innocent.

[Publicus]

So you truely think that this proxy war in Ukraine is simply because Putin is a bad man ? That wasn't elected democratically enough ?

The question is juvenile.

NATO was the one in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum. So your claims that Russia is simply on a war path for more land and resources is what is juvenile. As is your claims that the biggest oil energy companies in the world being in Russia, poses no threat to petrodollar hegemony. You went so far as to say that the US could release oil from it's strategic reserves to take down the price of oil. If Russia is of no threat to petrodollar hegemony , why would the US even consider this ?

Diplomats are trained to see things from both sides. I see very little of that going on in this thread.

What ever gave you the notion you might be discoursing with or among diplomats. You need to become more aware of your cyber environment. You are the most one-sided poster here single mindedly pursuing the destruction of the USD$ and the U.S. economy and financial system. The destruction of the United States.

You claim that I claim "Russia is simply on a war path for more land and resources." Those are your words, not mine, and it is your contorted claim that I said that. I didn't say that nor have I said anything so simplistic or idiotic as that, nor would I.

Also, you confuse me with another poster (and a fine one at that) by attributing to me statements and themes posted by him, as follows.....

As is your claims that the biggest oil energy companies in the world being in Russia, poses no threat to petrodollar hegemony. You went so far as to say that the US could release oil from it's strategic reserves to take down the price of oil. If Russia is of no threat to petrodollar hegemony , why would the US even consider this ?

I haven't posted about any of that and certainly not as you worded your post. Another poster makes those points, which you not only paraphrase but you also mangle..

I share the widely prevailing view Russia poses no significant alternative to the USD$ as the global trade and global reserve currency. Moscow and its fellow travelers globally will find out where their continuing escalations lead but let us hope they don't find out after it becomes too late.

Still waiting for Putin to start demanding payment for Russian gas and oil in Rubles, RMB, gold or perhaps even cheesburgers de Lekkerste!” .

[Publicus]

Look at the Russian military forces positioned along the border of eastern Ukraine. There are 23 battalions of Russia's top of the line military units of mechanized infantry, paratroop brigades, heavy armor, hard hitting artillery and of course air forces nearby.

The U.S. advised the UN Security Council yesterday it would consider any movement of Russian military forces into Ukraine in the guise of "humanitarian assistance" to be an invasion. The Russian ambassador to the UN yesterday said Russia was planning to do exactly that.

It was noted at the UNSC that shortly before Russia invaded Georgia it had sent a convoy in to Georgia on a "humanitarian assistance" mission.

U.S. says it would view Russia aid deliveries to Ukraine as invasion

Russia has offered to send a convoy of aid across the border for displaced civilians. The offer came at an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council that Russia called on Tuesday on the humanitarian situation in Ukraine, where a pro-Russian uprising threatens to break up the former Soviet republic of 46 million people.

"Therefore, any further unilateral intervention by Russia into Ukrainian territory, including one under the guise of providing humanitarian aid, would be completely unacceptable and deeply alarming. And it would be viewed as an invasion of Ukraine," [u.S. Ambassador] Power told the 15-member body

"Similar words have presaged military action," she said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-ukraine-crisis-un-idUSKBN0G81WL20140808

[Publicus]

The listing of all of the combat units of Russian military massed at the east Ukraine border is at the following link:

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/russias-buildup-on-the-ukraine-border/996/

The shock shooting of the Malaysia airliner disrupted Putin's military plans and timetable or Russia would have been occupying Ukraine already.

Things look to get a lot worse before without getting any better for an extended period of time.

Really extended.

[Harsh Jones]

Crimea being back in Russia, is the status quo. Crimea being a republic of Ukraine was the anomaly. Just look at history.

US bases in Asia is a laughable comparison

How far back in history do you want to go?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century before falling to the Russian Empire and being organised as its Taurida Oblast in 1783.

Seems invading territories is part of the Russian psyche???

You seem to be new to geopolitics. I think you can almost count on one hand, how many countries on this earth that the British did not conquer or occupy ever.

Fact is, Crimea was always Russian and it was the red line that Putin drew for NATO. If Putin did not democratically annex it, Joe Bidens son would probably be fracing there right now. And if that happened , Putin would get destroyed in the next Russian elections. He promised the Russian people that he would keep NATO out of Ukraine.

[Harsh Jones]

So you truely think that this proxy war in Ukraine is simply because Putin is a bad man ? That wasn't elected democratically enough ?

The question is juvenile.

NATO was the one in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum. So your claims that Russia is simply on a war path for more land and resources is what is juvenile. As is your claims that the biggest oil energy companies in the world being in Russia, poses no threat to petrodollar hegemony. You went so far as to say that the US could release oil from it's strategic reserves to take down the price of oil. If Russia is of no threat to petrodollar hegemony , why would the US even consider this ?

Diplomats are trained to see things from both sides. I see very little of that going on in this thread.

What ever gave you the notion you might be discoursing with or among diplomats. You need to become more aware of your cyber environment. You are the most one-sided poster here single mindedly pursuing the destruction of the USD$ and the U.S. economy and financial system. The destruction of the United States.

You claim that I claim "Russia is simply on a war path for more land and resources." Those are your words, not mine, and it is your contorted claim that I said that. I didn't say that nor have I said anything so simplistic or idiotic as that, nor would I.

Also, you confuse me with another poster (and a fine one at that) by attributing to me statements and themes posted by him, as follows.....

As is your claims that the biggest oil energy companies in the world being in Russia, poses no threat to petrodollar hegemony. You went so far as to say that the US could release oil from it's strategic reserves to take down the price of oil. If Russia is of no threat to petrodollar hegemony , why would the US even consider this ?

I haven't posted about any of that and certainly not as you worded your post. Another poster makes those points, which you not only paraphrase but you also mangle..

I share the widely prevailing view Russia poses no significant alternative to the USD$ as the global trade and global reserve currency. Moscow and its fellow travelers globally will find out where their continuing escalations lead but let us hope they don't find out after it becomes too late.

Still waiting for Putin to start demanding payment for Russian gas and oil in Rubles, RMB, gold or perhaps even cheesburgers de Lekkerste! .

I am just trying to figure out what the US's motives are to systematically try and restart the Cold War against Russia to the point where evidence seeps out that they stage a coup in Ukraine. Right on Russia's border.

You anti Putin people have no answers as to why.

Why is the US doing this ?

[lovetotravel]

Crimea being back in Russia, is the status quo. Crimea being a republic of Ukraine was the anomaly. Just look at history.

US bases in Asia is a laughable comparison

How far back in history do you want to go?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century before falling to the Russian Empire and being organised as its Taurida Oblast in 1783.

Seems invading territories is part of the Russian psyche???

You seem to be new to geopolitics. I think you can almost count on one hand, how many countries on this earth that the British did not conquer or occupy ever.

Fact is, Crimea was always Russian and it was the red line that Putin drew for NATO. If Putin did not democratically annex it, Joe Bidens son would probably be fracing there right now. And if that happened , Putin would get destroyed in the next Russian elections. He promised the Russian people that he would keep NATO out of Ukraine.

How did we get onto the UK? I think you need to re-read the post I provided. Unless they are wrong, the Crimea wasn't part of the Russian empire until 1783. Thus, not always part of Russia. And just because it was part of that empire in the past, doesn't need to be now. Kinda like your reference to the UK. Many countries are no longer part of the UK empire. Times change.

Oh. If you ask why we are so anti-Putin. Could you tell us why you are so much in support of him? And so anti-American? It does get old.

I have been to Russia. I love the country and met many fantastic people. It's not the people we have problems with, it's the government.

[Harsh Jones]

The listing of all of the combat units of Russian military massed at the east Ukraine border is at the following link:

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/russias-buildup-on-the-ukraine-border/996/

The shock shooting of the Malaysia airliner disrupted Putin's military plans and timetable or Russia would have been occupying Ukraine already.

Things look to get a lot worse before without getting any better for an extended period of time.

Really extended.

If it wasn't for the US backed and funded coup, none of this would have happened.

If the US did not say NO to Putins trilateral proposal ( Russia, Ukraine and EU) , none of this would have happened.

If the US supported Putins idea of moving the December Ukraine election dates closer, none of this would have happened.

And nobody that's supporting the US has any idea what the USs motives are. I can't say I fully know the motives either but I have some guesses.

[Publicus]

I am just trying to figure out what the US's motives are to systematically try and restart the Cold War against Russia to the point where evidence seeps out that they stage a coup in Ukraine. Right on Russia's border.

You anti Putin people have no answers as to why.

Why is the US doing this ?

The accusations are irresponsible, reckless, wrong.

They are fired off from the barrels of Russian artillery.

You need to find some middle ground.

And soon.

You haven't said anything about the Russian invasion forces along the border of the eastern Ukraine. What, Washington put them there???

Putin is attempting to settle serious differences with neighboring countries as if this were the 18th century, or the 19th century. The then president of Ukraine reneged on the Agreement of Association with the EU that he'd promised during his campaign he'd sign. Most Ukrainians want to associate with Europe and the rule of law, democracy, civility and the like. The things Putin can't stand.

[Harsh Jones]

I am just trying to figure out what the US's motives are to systematically try and restart the Cold War against Russia to the point where evidence seeps out that they stage a coup in Ukraine. Right on Russia's border.

You anti Putin people have no answers as to why.

Why is the US doing this ?

The accusations are irresponsible, reckless, wrong.

They are fired off from the barrels of Russian artillery.

You need to find some middle ground.

And soon.

You haven't said anything about the Russian invasion forces along the border of the eastern Ukraine. What, Washington put them there???

Putin is attempting to settle serious differences with neighboring countries as if this were the 18th century, or the 19th century. The then president of Ukraine reneged on the Agreement of Association with the EU that he'd promised during his campaign he'd sign. Most Ukrainians want to associate with Europe and the rule of law, democracy, civility and the like. The things Putin can't stand.

The US was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum by meddling in the internal politics of Ukraine. A nation that is thousands of miles away from them, yet shares a border with Russia.

Putin is the one who proposed the trilateral agreement that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed moving the coming December Ukraine election dates closer that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed a ceasefire in Ukraine to start negations and the US turned it down.

Yet here you are saying that Russia is attempting to settle differences as if this were the 18th or 19th century. The US knows that any one of the diplomatic proposals by Putin would probably work but they don't want to give Putin that statesmanship. For what reasons I can only guess and be called a conspiracy theorist. The US is willing to escalate a war and see civilians die just to make sure that Putin doesn't broker another peace deal like he did in Syria. The US seems to be jealous of Putins statesmanship.

[Publicus]

I am just trying to figure out what the US's motives are to systematically try and restart the Cold War against Russia to the point where evidence seeps out that they stage a coup in Ukraine. Right on Russia's border.

You anti Putin people have no answers as to why.

Why is the US doing this ?

The accusations are irresponsible, reckless, wrong.

They are fired off from the barrels of Russian artillery.

You need to find some middle ground.

And soon.

You haven't said anything about the Russian invasion forces along the border of the eastern Ukraine. What, Washington put them there???

Putin is attempting to settle serious differences with neighboring countries as if this were the 18th century, or the 19th century. The then president of Ukraine reneged on the Agreement of Association with the EU that he'd promised during his campaign he'd sign. Most Ukrainians want to associate with Europe and the rule of law, democracy, civility and the like. The things Putin can't stand.

The US was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum by meddling in the internal politics of Ukraine. A nation that is thousands of miles away from them, yet shares a border with Russia.

Putin is the one who proposed the trilateral agreement that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed moving the coming December Ukraine election dates closer that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed a ceasefire in Ukraine to start negations and the US turned it down.

Yet here you are saying that Russia is attempting to settle differences as if this were the 18th or 19th century. The US knows that any one of the diplomatic proposals by Putin would probably work but they don't want to give Putin that statesmanship. For what reasons I can only guess and be called a conspiracy theorist. The US is willing to escalate a war and see civilians die just to make sure that Putin doesn't broker another peace deal like he did in Syria. The US seems to be jealous of Putins statesmanship.

Moscow and you keep saying the public's mass routing of the Viktor Yanukovych government was a "coup d'état" when in fact neither the Ukraine military nor judiciary were involved.

Putin says the Budapest Memorandum is defunct, nullified, kaput, due to a "revolutionary coup d'état" in Ukraine and because the new government there is not the same government with which Moscow signed the 1994 treaty. Putin is making up international law as he goes along as are those who side with Putin.

The Russian foreign minister failed to show at the Budapest Memorandum Ministerial in Paris on March 5th, leaving the U.S., the UK and the Ukraine governments looking at an empty chair.

Ongoing nuclear negotiations with Iran could be directly impacted by Moscow's nullification of the Budapest Memorandum and the negative impact of not respecting the Memorandum would have on the U.S. negotiating position with Iran. The fact is the Budapest Memorandum was a confidence building measure rather than a formal treaty. And it turns out Putin is nothing more than a con man.

"One of the countries that agreed to guarantee (Ukraine's) integrity, Russia, has on the contrary violated it,” French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said, arguing that Ukraine’s fate after voluntarily surrendering its arsenal could encourage other countries to acquire nuclear weapons or refrain from giving them up.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Publicus

[lovetotravel]

Note to self: never get into an argument of facts with Publicus!

[dutchisaan]

Nice picture, where you got it from? Russian media? Please do all other members a favor and paint in the locations of Russians troops. And whenyouwill try this, concentrate on the Ukranian border.

Thank you.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lovetotravel]

I think post #77 shows it quite well. But I heard the build-up may be going away?????

Edited August 9, 2014 by lovetotravel

[zydeco]

Watch the commodity markets! Russia/Ukraine export significant quantities of Iron, steel, Aluminium, Copper, Nickel.

This could get a lot worse before it gets anywhere near better.

The post by SOTIRIOS is close to the mark. Putin may well be in this up to his neck, but without the undoubted goading by certain Western countries this situation would not exist. The West is playing a dangerous game with the Ukraine. If rumours prove correct and Russia closes Siberian airspace to all European/US traffic flying to Asia etc then that would prove a real issue. Costs of travel will soar, journey times will increase significantly. The West will then impose sanctions on Russian air traffic and boom, get ready to build the wall again and watch for the defence corporations in the US and Europe having the party of the century. It is ALL about money and resources!!!

Yes, please. Let the Russians stay behind their wall. The world was a better place when they did.

[F430murci]

From ZeroHedge

European stocks have suffered the most since sanctions began.

Chart: Bloomberg

Oops, Zerohedge once again uses an interesting snap shot or cut off and data plot that paints less than a complete picture. Laughable incomplete snapshot without any understanding of alpha, beta, support levels, and etc.

The MICRX lost 18% right before your chart cut off in late February dropping from 15,010 ish range in late February to 1,247 in March. Micex is currently sitting at 1,333 with a lot of volatility, but is still down 13% since late February 2014.

The Dow in February was around 15,370 and closed this Friday at 16,553.

I sure would prefer a Dow 7% gain since February 2014 over MICEX 13% loss since February 2014.

The DOW does need some correction and profit taking after going from 10,770 to 17,000 in LESS than 3 years. Issues in Israel, Ukraine and etc also pact DOW, but analyst are indicating strong number late 2014 early 2015. A very good time to buy in in certain sectors.

Edited August 9, 2014 by F430murci