Wildlife laws to be amended to address ivory trade

[Lite Beer]

Wildlife laws to be amended to address ivory trade
By Digital Content 
 

 

BANGKOK, Aug 9 -- The Commerce Ministry is now accelerating the amendment of laws related to crimes against wildlife with the aim of restoring confidence overseas, as Thailand is facing boycott threats over trade of more than 35,000 items of endangered wildlife and flora, said Pongpun Gearaviriyapun, director-general of the Ministry’s Business Development Department.

In line with a policy of the National Council for Peace and Order which seized power in Thailand during the May 22 bloodless military takeover, Ms Pongpan said concerned officials would amend the law following charges by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) that Thailand did not enforce law ratified by member countries.

Ms Pongpan said the charges by CITES have caused a large impact on Thailand’s exports, especially Thai orchids.

In another development, permanent secretary for Commerce Chutima Bunyapraphasara will find measures in rectifying smuggling of elephant tusks, in which Thailand is one of the eight countries closely monitored by foreign countries.

The deadline for the kingdom to solve this problem is August 2015, and if the issue remains unsolved, a boycott on the import of Thai products, including orchids, could be imposed, said Ms Chutima.

Ms Pongpan said her department would register current elephant tusk traders so that close monitoring could be carried out.

The department would seek cooperation from concerned government agencies in compiling the names of traders.

And in order to restore confidence from the international community, Ms Pongpan said ivory traders who have not yet registered themselves should do so immediately.

Harsh legal punishment would be imposed against those neglecting the order and who continued to engage in the illegal trade, she added. (MCOT online news)

 

[tna]2014-08-09[/tna]

[h90]

what is wrong with trading ivory from elephants that live in the camps and die from old age?

The others in Africa shoot elephants is hardly a logic reason.

[Arkady]

what is wrong with trading ivory from elephants that live in the camps and die from old age?
The others in Africa shoot elephants is hardly a logic reason.

The problem is that each elephant that dies of old age in the camps will turn out to have had thousands of tusks just like the wood from each old teak house that is dismantled gives birth to thousands of new ones.

Ban the ivory trade in all shapes and forms forthwith and Thailand will lose its attractiveness as a transit point for poached African Ivory. Boycotting Thai exports of other products is the only way to force compliance with CITES.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[craigt3365]

It's not only the laws that need to be amended, it's the proper enforcement of the existing ones.  Ivory is smuggled into this country with the help of corrupt officials and then sold as "local" ivory.  Or smuggled out again.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/746783-thai-customs-arrest-a-vietnamese-and-a-chinese-for-9-million-baht-ivory-smuggling/

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/739499-thai-ivory-boom-fuelling-africa-elephant-crisis/

[chainarong]

Up until now Thailand control of wildlife and fauna has been nothing short of disgusting , to think that in our year 2014 Thailand struggles to administer and control what happens within its own borders, total lack of any systems are in place and if they are they are not adhered to by the personnel in charge, one can only wonder what measures will be undertaken and whether there as usual will be the same systematic breakdown of any responsible efforts by the management and employees at the coal face.

[clockman]

They only respect wealth!

[DrLom]

"And in order to restore confidence from the international community, Ms Pongpan said ivory traders who have not yet registered themselves should do so immediately."

 

Yes, dear, I'm sure they'll all be lining up tomorrow.
 

[Mudlover]

We amend these laws, not because it is the right thing to do, but to restore confidence overseas and avoid penalties.

[ChrisY1]

All talk yet again........the rest of the people outside Thailand are not stupid....

Changing laws....harsh penalties.....register all of the ~150 sites in BKK alone.....really sounds good!

Can anyone imagine the well to do here in Thailand, not buying more ivory products......it's like a drug to them....!!

[wilcopops]

what is wrong with trading ivory from elephants that live in the camps and die from old age?

The others in Africa shoot elephants is hardly a logic reason.

 

 

Trading in ivory is LEGAL in Thailand so long as it is from elephants that have died "natually" in Thailand.

 

Unfortunately the amount of ivory in circulation in Thailand far exceeds any amount that could be explained by this criteria.

the fact that there is so much ivory "slurping around" in Thailand mean s that the trade in illegal ivory works well under cover of the ineffective enforcement.

 

It has also been shown that "free" markets like this lead directly to the exploitation of wild animals both at home and abroad....the current situation involving the illegal trade between Myanmar and Thailand poses a part of a very real threat to the continued existence of wild elephants anywhere in S.E. Asia..

[wilcopops]

 

The CITES conference took place in March 2013 and there Yingluck promised to do something about the ivory trade in Thailand.......nothing happened.

 

HOWEVER -  this does show that CITES has some teeth and that it can command boycotts on countries that fail to live up to their commitments.

 

BUT - it still remains to be seen if any concrete action will flow from this latest dictum.

 

"Ms Pongpan said her department would register current elephant tusk traders so that close monitoring could be carried out."

Sadly, this quote, to me indicates that the whole thing will be as about as effective as fart in a force nine gale.

 

[tigermonkey]

Up until now Thailand control of wildlife and fauna has been nothing short of disgusting , to think that in our year 2014 Thailand struggles to administer and control what happens within its own borders, total lack of any systems are in place and if they are they are not adhered to by the personnel in charge, one can only wonder what measures will be undertaken and whether there as usual will be the same systematic breakdown of any responsible efforts by the management and employees at the coal face.

You don't need to "wonder what measures will be undertaken ". She has already stated that all ivory traders will be registered and closely monitored period. There is no mention of restrictions, control or punishment for offenders, nor any mention of shutting down and prosecuting those who fail to register - although she does state " harsh legal punishment", which presumably will be a 1,000 Baht fine. That should really impress all the other signatories of CITES, especially since this is only one of the 35,000 items that Thailand is failing to control. We all know that it is about the money and not stomping on the 'wrong' toes.

 

I can already hear the wailing and moaning next year, when Thailand products start to be hit with import bans. It's the "human trafficking" plot all over again.

[h90]

 

what is wrong with trading ivory from elephants that live in the camps and die from old age?
The others in Africa shoot elephants is hardly a logic reason.

The problem is that each elephant that dies of old age in the camps will turn out to have had thousands of tusks just like the wood from each old teak house that is dismantled gives birth to thousands of new ones.

Ban the ivory trade in all shapes and forms forthwith and Thailand will lose its attractiveness as a transit point for poached African Ivory. Boycotting Thai exports of other products is the only way to force compliance with CITES.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

I see the point, but it isn't logic. With this arguments you must ban the gold trade as well. While most gold is got legal some people will get gold illegal, by even murdering people. The only way to stop that is to ban the gold trade totally....

In Thailand it would be possible to control it, but of course not in Africa....

 

Second problem is, it does not work. It doesn't loose its attractiveness. To me it seems it just helps to increase the price.

All the seized ivory that get burned in Africa. If they would put it on the marked it will reduce the market price for a while. It is like the prohibition....banned things rise in value.

 

 

 

[IamNoone88]

Withe pressure on natural resources and wildlife, I find it hard that any sensible person would want to buy ivory - but therein lies the problem - a global lack of sensible people.

 

The only place ivory should be seen is on a healthy elephant in their protected natural habitat.

[wilcopops]

 

 

what is wrong with trading ivory from elephants that live in the camps and die from old age?
The others in Africa shoot elephants is hardly a logic reason.

The problem is that each elephant that dies of old age in the camps will turn out to have had thousands of tusks just like the wood from each old teak house that is dismantled gives birth to thousands of new ones.

Ban the ivory trade in all shapes and forms forthwith and Thailand will lose its attractiveness as a transit point for poached African Ivory. Boycotting Thai exports of other products is the only way to force compliance with CITES.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

I see the point, but it isn't logic. With this arguments you must ban the gold trade as well. While most gold is got legal some people will get gold illegal, by even murdering people. The only way to stop that is to ban the gold trade totally....

In Thailand it would be possible to control it, but of course not in Africa....

 

Second problem is, it does not work. It doesn't loose its attractiveness. To me it seems it just helps to increase the price.

All the seized ivory that get burned in Africa. If they would put it on the marked it will reduce the market price for a while. It is like the prohibition....banned things rise in value.

 

 

 

 

These arguments have been suggested before and I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree.

You cannot compare elephants  - because that's what we are talking of -  and gold.

Gold is NOT a rarity.....

Elephants are part of a living  ecosystem that is a lot more easily damages than gold....they are an easily depleted supply....gold is not.........gold is an element, ivory is not it is an organic product from living animals.

 

[placebo365]

It is the existing 'loop' in Thai law allowing legal trade in ivory from "domesticated" elephants, who have died of natural causes, that allows Thailand to be THE hub for trafficking ivory from Africa into the whole of Asia and onwards to China's ivory carving factories.  China predominantly is fuelling the demand, whilst Thailand is facilitating that demand.  Until there is an outright ban on the trade of all ivory, the very existence of elephants is under threat.  One elephant is killed every 15 minutes for ivory.  By the time your grandchildren are your age they will be extinct.  This isn't scaremongering, this is fact.  Some people think this is inevitable, others think it's no big deal, however elephants are a keystone species, meaning if they become extinct, the ecosystems in which they live are no longer able to re populate themselves.  This effectively means the extinction of elephants will have a domino effect that will rapidly lead to the extinction of many other species.  Education is needed to make people realise it is more than just a few "legal" ivory traders jobs at risk.  On October 4th there are over 100 marches taking place in cities worldwide, calling for an end to the trade in ivory (and Rhino horn).  It's unfortunate that this year there isn't one being held in Thailand.  CITES must continue to keep up pressure on Thailand.

[h90]

 

 

 

what is wrong with trading ivory from elephants that live in the camps and die from old age?
The others in Africa shoot elephants is hardly a logic reason.

The problem is that each elephant that dies of old age in the camps will turn out to have had thousands of tusks just like the wood from each old teak house that is dismantled gives birth to thousands of new ones.

Ban the ivory trade in all shapes and forms forthwith and Thailand will lose its attractiveness as a transit point for poached African Ivory. Boycotting Thai exports of other products is the only way to force compliance with CITES.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

I see the point, but it isn't logic. With this arguments you must ban the gold trade as well. While most gold is got legal some people will get gold illegal, by even murdering people. The only way to stop that is to ban the gold trade totally....

In Thailand it would be possible to control it, but of course not in Africa....

 

Second problem is, it does not work. It doesn't loose its attractiveness. To me it seems it just helps to increase the price.

All the seized ivory that get burned in Africa. If they would put it on the marked it will reduce the market price for a while. It is like the prohibition....banned things rise in value.

 

 

 

 

These arguments have been suggested before and I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree.

You cannot compare elephants  - because that's what we are talking of -  and gold.

Gold is NOT a rarity.....

Elephants are part of a living  ecosystem that is a lot more easily damages than gold....they are an easily depleted supply....gold is not.........gold is an element, ivory is not it is an organic product from living animals.

 

 

 

I don't see your point.

Ivory isn't easily depleted.....If you wait long enough and don't burn it, everyone could have a kg at home, as it isn't fouling away with time.
Elephants could be even farmed for it.

 

But that is not the point. Burning ivory makes it more expensive and more likely that someone kill elephants for it.

[placebo365]

Why burn ivory? To send a message that elephants are worth far more alive than dead.  To stigmatise ivory as being equivalent to 'blood diamonds' and not as a luxury product. To stop allowing terrorist organisations to fund their deeds from the proceeds of ivory. To stop rangers who guard elephants being slaughtered.  To encourage local people to be able to make a living from tourists who come to see the elephants alive.  I could go on....but read for yourself.

http://burntheivory.org/why-burn-the-ivory/

[Thai at Heart]

what is wrong with trading ivory from elephants that live in the camps and die from old age?
The others in Africa shoot elephants is hardly a logic reason.

Because simple enforcement in Thailand is impossible because the place is utterly corrupt

[wilcopops]

 

 

 

phant that dies of old age in the camps will turn out to have had thousands of tusks just like the wood from each old teak house that is dismantled gives birth to thousands of new ones.

Ban the ivory trade in all shapes and forms forthwith and Thailand will lose its attractiveness as a transit point for poached African Ivory. Boycotting Thai exports of other products is the only way to force compliance with CITES.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

I see the point, but it isn't logic. With this arguments you must ban the gold trade as well. While most gold is got legal some people will get gold illegal, by even murdering people. The only way to stop that is to ban the gold trade totally....

In Thailand it would be possible to control it, but of course not in Africa....

 

Second problem is, it does not work. It doesn't loose its attractiveness. To me it seems it just helps to increase the price.

All the seized ivory that get burned in Africa. If they would put it on the marked it will reduce the market price for a while. It is like the prohibition....banned things rise in value.

 

 

 

 

These arguments have been suggested before and I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree.

You cannot compare elephants  - because that's what we are talking of -  and gold.

Gold is NOT a rarity.....

Elephants are part of a living  ecosystem that is a lot more easily damages than gold....they are an easily depleted supply....gold is not.........gold is an element, ivory is not it is an organic product from living animals.

 

 

 

I don't see your point.

Ivory isn't easily depleted.....If you wait long enough and don't burn it, everyone could have a kg at home, as it isn't fouling away with time.
Elephants could be even farmed for it.

 

But that is not the point. Burning ivory makes it more expensive and more likely that someone kill elephants for it.

 

 

 

I think you need to read up on the supply potential of ivory. The legal supply of ivory in Thailand form Thai elephants is estimated a 650 kg per annum MAX.

For everyone just in Thailand to have  to have a kg would require 65.ooo.ooo kg - that's quite a long wait. in  the meantime to source of ivory - elephants - is dwindling at about 20k per year.

i really can't see you maths.

 

[wilcopops]

what is wrong with trading ivory from elephants that live in the camps and die from old age?

The others in Africa shoot elephants is hardly a logic reason.

 

 

Come on, let's do a bit of research on the quantities and even type of ivory involved before making completely erroneous comments like that.

[wilcopops]

 

This is not a problem Thailand can deal with on its own; it is a worldwide problem and Thailand needs to cooperate with the unified policy adopted by the nations of the world. Thailand is a signatory to the CITES treaty which is legally binding on its members and so the idea of having its own singular plan for conservation is both out of keeping with reality and the treaty they have signed