Could the visa crackdown/AESAN work in our favor?

[benj005]

First, let's discuss the visa crackdown. The big complaint with a lot of foreign teachers who teach in Thailand is the pay. I feel that the pay is kept low because of the backpackers. They visit Thailand and decide to teach to make a few baht. This is keeping teacher wages artificially low. When the visa rules go into effect this will have to end.

Now to ASEAN. I don't know much about this so hopefully someone can clear this up for me. By next year SE Asian countries are going to open their borders in an effort to boost the economy. Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, and Burma are going to be competing for foreign dollars. Speaking English is going to be very important, so there is going to be an all out effort on the SE governments to ramp up English in their school system. Thais haven't fared that well so hopefully the government will see this and take the appropriate steps so every student can speak English fluently. If not, then the other countries will get development dollars and Thailand will be left out in the cold.

The visa crackdown plus ASEAN will put pressure on the Thai schools to keep foreign teachers. Add in the need for a bachelors degree/teacher license and there will be a huge shortage of qualified educators. In turn, salaries are going to increase. Maybe even comparable to South Korea and Japan.

Thoughts? Edited August 11, 2014 by benj005

[johninbkk71]

Not going to happen. Never seen a crackdown like this. But salary haven't risen in my 16 years here. Shortages of teachers come and go. Salaries stay the same. Plenty of schools get rid of experienced teachers when their salary gets too high or they're too old.
Young, handsome / pretty and cheap- works for 8 out of 10 schools. Bodies in classes. Edited August 11, 2014 by johninbkk71

[benj005]

Not going to happen. Never seen a crackdown like this. But salary haven't risen in my 16 years here. Shortages of teachers come and go. Salaries stay the same. Plenty of schools get rid of experienced teachers when their salary gets too high or they're too old.
Young, handsome / pretty and cheap- works for 8 out of 10 schools. Bodies in classes.

I understand what your saying, but haven't rules gone in effect that foreign teachers now need a bachelors or a teacher's license to teach in Thailand? Add in the new strict visa rules and I can see a HUGE shortage of foreign teachers. With ASEAN on the horizon I feel that this is going to put pressure on the government to raise English scores. I was told by a few Thais that Thai English scores were abysmal.

I just got here so I don't have your experience. This is all just speculation on my part.

[johninbkk71]

No, schools outside of Bangkok can employ people without a degree if the person has other qualifications. Most chose not to bother with visa teachers.
Lots of schools use agents. Some get visa for teachers most don't.
My advice if you have just arrived consider teaching here as a short term prospect and move on.

[johninbkk71]

Oh and if you have never worked in a Thai government school you could be in for a shock. Many schools are no better than juvenile detention centres.

[ArtHay]

While I can imagine the requirement for a degree will be enforced I don't think it's practical to further insist FT have teaching licenses.

With the coming of ASEAN there will be a much greater need for native speakers of English to teach in Thai schools and given the lucrative opportunities available to licensed teachers in other parts of Asia there simply won't be enough to satisfy the demand.

Thailand is a truly wonderful place to visit but given the inadequate wages and bureaucratic mazes that must be navigated it isn't always the greatest place to work.







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[lostinisaan]

 There should be  a crackdown on agencies that employ anybody, just to fill a gap. Then there'd be a real shortage everywhere.

 

As long as they can bypass all laws and abuse foreigners, nothing will change. 

[lostinisaan]

While I can imagine the requirement for a degree will be enforced I don't think it's practical to further insist FT have teaching licenses.

With the coming of ASEAN there will be a much greater need for native speakers of English to teach in Thai schools and given the lucrative opportunities available to licensed teachers in other parts of Asia there simply won't be enough to satisfy the demand.

Thailand is a truly wonderful place to visit but given the inadequate wages and bureaucratic mazes that must be navigated it isn't always the greatest place to work.







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

    I live in lower northeast with my family, pay 4 K for a rented house, plus Internet, electricity, etc...I'm making $ 1,100 right now and it seems that we're in the upper class, when looking at others.

 

I can even afford it to maintain my Pick Up, buy Diesel oil and our life seems to be okay. 

 

It's not always the money that makes you happy. 

[otherstuff1957]

The current rules actually favor backpackers over people who have lived in Thailand for several years.  A backpacker can get 2 two-year waivers which will let them teach for up to 4 years without any requirements other than a BA/BS.  Someone who is here for the long term, on the other hand, will have to jump through all of the TCT loops or leave.

 

I rather imagine that the future will see more of the more experienced teachers being weeded out and replaced with backpackers and Filipinos.

[BruceMangosteen]

The Thai's think the Filipinos are Native English Speakers and the Filipino Teachers can earn triple the wage paid in the Philippines. In addition of course, they don't mind sharing living quarters. The solution for the Thai schools will as is already trending, to hire more and more Filipinos and there is no shortage of people from the Islands willing to work for triple what they could earn staying in the Philippines. The writing is not only on the wall, but proven by a visit to most schools. 

[BruceMangosteen]

Oh and if you have never worked in a Thai government school you could be in for a shock. Many schools are no better than juvenile detention centres.

 

Not to be off topic, but I was under the impression there weren't any juvenile detention centers in Thailand? Students are kept in school for many reasons, some good and some questionable, but I honestly don't think there are centers or reform schools available to the general public anyhow. 

[johninbkk71]

Oh and if you have never worked in a Thai government school you could be in for a shock. Many schools are no better than juvenile detention centres.

 
Not to be off topic, but I was under the impression there weren't any juvenile detention centers in Thailand? Students are kept in school for many reasons, some good and some questionable, but I honestly don't think there are centers or reform schools available to the general public anyhow. 

Thailand does have juvenile detention centres but mostly for those under 18 involved in drugs otherwise it's back into the community. If a student pushes a school enough he will be expelled. But below 14 or 15, I can't remeber the exact age, other schools will take them.
I teach M2 many students are 13 almost 14(which is right), but in some classes I have 15 and 16 years. Many are on a sad one way trip of continuing to throw their life's away. Hence the comparison to juvenile detention centres.

PS: it's not Thais think Filipinos are native speakers. It's just their cheap. No insult to Filipinos teachers intended. I've worked with some great teachers from the Philippines.

[ArtHay]

While I can imagine the requirement for a degree will be enforced I don't think it's practical to further insist FT have teaching licenses.

With the coming of ASEAN there will be a much greater need for native speakers of English to teach in Thai schools and given the lucrative opportunities available to licensed teachers in other parts of Asia there simply won't be enough to satisfy the demand.

Thailand is a truly wonderful place to visit but given the inadequate wages and bureaucratic mazes that must be navigated it isn't always the greatest place to work.







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 
    I live in lower northeast with my family, pay 4 K for a rented house, plus Internet, electricity, etc...I'm making $ 1,100 right now and it seems that we're in the upper class, when looking at others.
 
I can even afford it to maintain my Pick Up, buy Diesel oil and our life seems to be okay. 
 
It's not always the money that makes you happy. 

I agree, I live in the north with my family and actually make less than that, like you I am quite content. Others, however, might place a higher priority on money, and I certainly can't blame them for doing so.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Edited August 11, 2014 by ArtHay

[Kf6vci]

 

 

Oh and if you have never worked in a Thai government school you could be in for a shock. Many schools are no better than juvenile detention centres.

 
Not to be off topic, but I was under the impression there weren't any juvenile detention centers in Thailand? Students are kept in school for many reasons, some good and some questionable, but I honestly don't think there are centers or reform schools available to the general public anyhow. 

Thailand does have juvenile detention centres but mostly for those under 18 involved in drugs otherwise it's back into the community. If a student pushes a school enough he will be expelled. But below 14 or 15, I can't remeber the exact age, other schools will take them.
I teach M2 many students are 13 almost 14(which is right), but in some classes I have 15 and 16 years. Many are on a sad one way trip of continuing to throw their life's away. Hence the comparison to juvenile detention centres.

PS: it's not Thais think Filipinos are native speakers. It's just their cheap. No insult to Filipinos teachers intended. I've worked with some great teachers from the Philippines.

 

 

There are now hordes from African countries clammoring for and getting teaching jobs. 20 k is good, 15 k is better. Just ask anyone who advertises these days who the guys who apply are from
 

[Centrum]

The Thai's think the Filipinos are Native English Speakers and the Filipino Teachers can earn triple the wage paid in the Philippines. In addition of course, they don't mind sharing living quarters. The solution for the Thai schools will as is already trending, to hire more and more Filipinos and there is no shortage of people from the Islands willing to work for triple what they could earn staying in the Philippines. The writing is not only on the wall, but proven by a visit to most schools. 

 

Wrong. The Thais do not think Filipinos are native speakers.

When schools begin MEP or Intensive English programs they do it for one reason; to make money.

The sale point to parents is the students will study with native English speakers, not Filipino, not Irish, not German, not African.

Schools that have have a limited budget are happy to employ Filipinos at 60% of the farang wage and the Filipinos accept this, as it's more than they can get at home.

 

It's pretty much a fact, legalties aside, that a non-degree holding farang, is more desirable than a qualified Filipino teacher.

 

If the regulations were to be strictly enforced, that teachers must have a degree, the Thai schools' English programs would all but collapse.

I can't see that happening, so somewhere in the not too distant future, I expect a sensible (if that is possible in Thailand) solution to arise.

 

If you were concerned about your child's education, you would want a qualified teacher running the lessons, not a qualified engineer, or someone with a degree in management, media, political science, or visual arts. Similarly, you wouldn't want a backpacker, shelf-stacker or a real-estate agent/car salesman, for the same reasons.

It's obvious that Thailand will never be able to pay the money to attract qualified teachers to wrestle with 55 noisy, unmotivated 14 year olds in a non airconditioned shithole, that passes as a school in Thailand.

 

As close as possible to commonsense will prevail in the next few months.

 

[wvavin]

A lot of you guys may have thought the coming AEC is going to make changes. You are going to be greatly disappointed if you think this is going to benefit non ASEAN nationals. Nothing is going to happen here unless you are from a very highly recognised educational institution and not just any English speaking guys passing by. 

[thequietman]

Ireland IS a nes speaking country. It has been for many, many years. Ireland is the only English-speaking country in the Eurozone, and that’s one of the reasons why so many multinational businesses locate their European base here

 

Just thought you should know.  

 

The Thai's think the Filipinos are Native English Speakers and the Filipino Teachers can earn triple the wage paid in the Philippines. In addition of course, they don't mind sharing living quarters. The solution for the Thai schools will as is already trending, to hire more and more Filipinos and there is no shortage of people from the Islands willing to work for triple what they could earn staying in the Philippines. The writing is not only on the wall, but proven by a visit to most schools. 

 

Wrong. The Thais do not think Filipinos are native speakers.

When schools begin MEP or Intensive English programs they do it for one reason; to make money.

The sale point to parents is the students will study with native English speakers, not Filipino, not Irish, not German, not African.

Schools that have have a limited budget are happy to employ Filipinos at 60% of the farang wage and the Filipinos accept this, as it's more than they can get at home.

 

It's pretty much a fact, legalties aside, that a non-degree holding farang, is more desirable than a qualified Filipino teacher.

 

If the regulations were to be strictly enforced, that teachers must have a degree, the Thai schools' English programs would all but collapse.

I can't see that happening, so somewhere in the not too distant future, I expect a sensible (if that is possible in Thailand) solution to arise.

 

If you were concerned about your child's education, you would want a qualified teacher running the lessons, not a qualified engineer, or someone with a degree in management, media, political science, or visual arts. Similarly, you wouldn't want a backpacker, shelf-stacker or a real-estate agent/car salesman, for the same reasons.

It's obvious that Thailand will never be able to pay the money to attract qualified teachers to wrestle with 55 noisy, unmotivated 14 year olds in a non airconditioned shithole, that passes as a school in Thailand.

 

As close as possible to commonsense will prevail in the next few months.

 

 

 

[phuketrichard]

my daughter had a Filipino teacher when she went to the Montessori school in Phuket,  they had no Native speakers teaching and after 6 months i pulled her out as her english was getting worse than when she started,

 

The are a poor substitute for  a native speaker

[jhwest]

Not going to happen. Never seen a crackdown like this. But salary haven't risen in my 16 years here. Shortages of teachers come and go. Salaries stay the same. Plenty of schools get rid of experienced teachers when their salary gets too high or they're too old.
Young, handsome / pretty and cheap- works for 8 out of 10 schools. Bodies in classes.

Spot on post johninbkk 71 Totally agree with you regarding getting rid of experienced foreign teachers and yes same, same in the real World regarded as too old at just age 60Plus and yes agree with the so called "Directors" aim to get bodies just in to the classroom. It looks good for them ha ha!!!

 

Also the more experienced teacher has more committment, loyality and give so much to every student, both as a collective unit and as individuals have so much more go in them, then the so called 25 or 26 year olds who think they know it all, yet get a renewal of a WP, even though they do not deserve it and turn up when they feel like it.

 

In my experience and unfortunately my experience has been thrown out of the window, but the choice of so caled "Directors" and Head of English Departments can not understand a basic English quiestion, let alone explaning in English to the students.

Yes indeed many ex students and current student come up to me and please explain what my English teacher has taught, be it a Thai, Filipino and yes often help those students who have or have been to University.

ASEAN 2015  really Thailand needs to wake up or rather the so called top levels of education. Never going to change though and also they think that they know it all, but it is their system and schools and it sucks.

[wolfmanjack]

 

Not going to happen. Never seen a crackdown like this. But salary haven't risen in my 16 years here. Shortages of teachers come and go. Salaries stay the same. Plenty of schools get rid of experienced teachers when their salary gets too high or they're too old.
Young, handsome / pretty and cheap- works for 8 out of 10 schools. Bodies in classes.

I understand what your saying, but haven't rules gone in effect that foreign teachers now need a bachelors or a teacher's license to teach in Thailand? Add in the new strict visa rules and I can see a HUGE shortage of foreign teachers. With ASEAN on the horizon I feel that this is going to put pressure on the government to raise English scores. I was told by a few Thais that Thai English scores were abysmal.

I just got here so I don't have your experience. This is all just speculation on my part.

 

My daughter took the ONET not too long ago. The national Average was about 45 for Thai Language and 35 for English Language so the students are not doing that great on either thai or english.

[KhnomKhnom]

Many smarter types, like Nurses I hear from, are scared silly that they will be replaced by cheaper labor from neighboring nations.

 

In many job categories, Thailand pays more than neighbors.  I look for lots of labor disruptions and business adjustments and more for Thailand than the three surrounding countries.  I have not found one article in English that addresses in a scholarly way these anticipated effects.  Whooo boy, some are in for a surprise.

[culicine]

my daughter had a Filipino teacher when she went to the Montessori school in Phuket,  they had no Native speakers teaching and after 6 months i pulled her out as her english was getting worse than when she started,

 

The are a poor substitute for  a native speaker

They are supposed to get a 600 on TOEIC. It seems to me this is too low, judging by the numberous non-native speakers in my EP. It would seem 800++ is more appropriate , and pay them accordingly. Most schools these days are trying to save a baht, and if they can convince parents non-native teachers are 'good enough', then so be it. They outnumber the native speakers in my school, and that trend is set to grow, despite parents paying 120K a year or more. 

[aarontendo]

Heh, EP programs cost 120,000 baht a year?  That's a chunk of change for sure...I mean nowhere near international school prices but still...

 

I hope those programs pay more than the 30,000 baht a month that some are content to be on.  I'm all for doing one for kids and making sacrifices, but hell someone's making a hell of a lot of money off the farang labor at that point.

 

In regards to the VISA crackdown, hell I'm hoping it props my salary up some.  I have buddies who are working here and all, but if there's gonna be a crackdown and people being pushed out then I'd at least like to see a silver lining for my wallet.

[jhwest]

Not going to happen. Never seen a crackdown like this. But salary haven't risen in my 16 years here. Shortages of teachers come and go. Salaries stay the same. Plenty of schools get rid of experienced teachers when their salary gets too high or they're too old.
Young, handsome / pretty and cheap- works for 8 out of 10 schools. Bodies in classes.

Johninbkk Thai visa what is this all about wait 6 seconds and then try again. Do not post much.

Top post and totally correct in that very good experienced English teachers are being get rid of, because of age and yes relative high salaries. Same, same in the Western World in that if one is over 60 then you are past it.

Total and utter rubbish and so called "Directors" and Heads of Foreign Department want bodies in class and it reflects well on them.

 

Older people with or without degrees are more committed, loyal and very good to the collective group and to individuals too and always ready to help in and out of the classroom.

Yes not my choice, but not teaching at the school I taught last year and no one could be bothered to tell me to my face.

 

Yes have and still am getting students asking me to explain what has been said by English by both Thai and Filipine teachers and also ex students too and also ones who have/going to university.

ASEAN 2015  and Thailand going to be way behind, but until the the top people in Authority wake up, then it will never change, but it their schools!!!!

[BruceMangosteen]

Heh, EP programs cost 120,000 baht a year?  That's a chunk of change for sure...I mean nowhere near international school prices but still...

 

 

 

That's BS in Government schools anyhow. It's apx 25,000baht per year for an MEP and EP a little more since more hours with "native speakers". 

[lostinisaan]

 

Heh, EP programs cost 120,000 baht a year?  That's a chunk of change for sure...I mean nowhere near international school prices but still...

 

 

 

That's BS in Government schools anyhow. It's apx 25,000baht per year for an MEP and EP a little more since more hours with "native speakers". 

 

 

      The EP and MEP was and still is irritating. Bilingual programs were always called MEP, but now EP. The costs for one term in an EP (with "native English maybe not speakers) is between 20 and 35 K for primary schools from P.1- P.6.

 

 

Those non native English speakers, who "only" teach subjects are a pain in the bud, if their English isn't good. How the heck do you teach science, using a lot of vocabulary, when you scored 600 in a TOEIC?

 

It just doesn't work in reality and is only a cheap excuse to pay less money. 

Edited August 12, 2014 by lostinisaan

[BruceMangosteen]

 and if they can convince parents non-native teachers are 'good enough', then so be it.

 

 

To repeat myself, they, the Thai's, have in fact convinced the parents and themselves that Filipino's are native English speakers along with Africans(no personal experience) and even Indians(which is not believed by most parents). The brochures clearly state that the teachers are "Native English speaking teachers". I don't think there is an effort to convince the parents they are "good enough". It's done the other way, "they are native speakers". To challenge such a claim, well you can figure it out. Face once again would dictate. To ramble, there are always complaints from parents at the M.1 level but after the first term and onward to M.3 the parents run out of steam and accept this is what they get for what they pay. Thai's do know the difference between 25,000baht and 250,000.baht. 

[BruceMangosteen]

 

      The EP and MEP was and still is irritating. Bilingual programs were always called MEP, but now EP. The costs for one term in an EP (with "native English maybe not speakers) is between 20 and 35 K for primary schools from P.1- P.6.

 

 

 

 

We seem to have differing lingo at the high school level...M.1-M.6.

 

Bilingual was the original program, and amounted to only the English subject being taught by "Native English Speakers" which as I indicated, means not a Thai... It cost apx 6000baht per term.(past tense as I don't know if currently exist)

 

MEP is 15 hours per week taught in English, various subjects(dictated by Bangkok but said dictation not adhered to by the schools) and better facilities i.e. AC and visual aides and different books(more advanced?) in English and said subjects. Cost to the parent apx 25,000baht per year.

 

EP is I think 20 hours per week taught in English. Cost to the parent apx 35,0000baht per year.

 

Happy Mothers Day !

[BruceMangosteen]

Many smarter types, like Nurses I hear from, are scared silly that they will be replaced by cheaper labor from neighboring nations.

 

That is already happening in private hospitals. I don't think the Thai Government hospitals would go that route.

[BruceMangosteen]

Ireland IS a nes speaking country. It has been for many, many years. Ireland is the only English-speaking country in the Eurozone, and that’s one of the reasons why so many multinational businesses locate their European base here

 

Just thought you should know.  

 

 

 

 

Ireland is known to have certain tax advantages for large multinational businesses. I think we both know the English isn't a factor. There must be safe banks there. I thought England was in the "Eurozone" but guess I was mistaken.