I Still Dont Get It

[Dondi]

I see many farangs in Thailand that own bars yet when someone does a post about wanting to own a bar on different sites many get a very negative reponse

tho if everyones so negative about it why do some many farangs own bars???

i have a GF that owns a bar in Hua Hin with her sister , she says lots of the bars are owned by farangs and theres never really any problem , some dont make to much money so they sell , some make enough and stay for a couple of years.I stayed there for a number of weeks talking and looking at the bars in the interested of investing a portion, i choose Hua Hin as my GF's brother is in the police force there and is a good man making me feel alil more safe

the owner seems nice and have no problem with the other owners (the bar girls can be alil full on tho) , of course theres a dark side im sure but it doesnt seem anything like Pattaya or Bangkok where im told its a big mistake for investment

could this really be that bad of an idea ?, making millions isnt a "must have" either

[eric1000]

I see many farangs in Thailand that own bars yet when someone does a post about wanting to own a bar on different sites many get a very negative reponse

tho if everyones so negative about it why do some many farangs own bars???

because there are so many dumb farangs who dont know any better ?

hassle factor is said to be very bad , drunks, fights ,drugs , pimps, local mafia ,police extortion , mafia extortion , protection money , tea money , thieving from the till,

fall out with the woman , licence , if you wish to walk the minefield feel free.

I know a Irishman who built up a great bar business , then the landlord of the property

jacked up the rent so high he was forced out .

The Thai installed his own manager and had a great bar business .

[Dondi]

Is it the same deal with , say a restuarant ???? or is it just the bar scene

[londonguy]

I think like you say there is a difference between Hua Hin and say Phuket or Bangkok etc. For one thing the police are a lot more laid back in Hua hin and being a small town everyone knows everyone else. Also in the Soi Bitabar the freeholds of 80% of the bars are owned by two sisters which makes a big difference.

[Bluecat]

tho if everyones so negative about it why do some many farangs own bars???

Because farang people who want to stay in Thailand do not "always" want to do so for the right reasons and hence, do not end up staying at the right place for the right reasons,...

And this is the understatment of the year,....

[Spee]

tho if everyones so negative about it why do some many farangs own bars???

The bar biz is the bar biz ... unless you have very unique circumstances you can expect to have very high staff turnover and very spotty clientele.

I'm not talking about weeks or months, but more like 5-10-15 years. If you are expecting any sort of consistency, then you are kidding yourself.

With rare circumstances aside, the most successful people in the bar business take their shot, sell it at the peak if they survive, and then give it another shot.

But employee, whether bartender, waitress, stripper or other occupation, the smart ones are in it for the money. If the money and circumstances are acceptable, then the bar can be very profitable. If not, then everyone can lose a lot of money fast.

Just my own wrong opinion ...

[Bluecat]

With rare circumstances aside, the most successful people in the bar business take their shot, sell it at the peak if they survive, and then give it another shot.

And they are Thai,...

If you are a farang, chances that you succeed are very, very slim, at best,...

[eric1000]

Is it the same deal with , say a restuarant ???? or is it just the bar scene

not quite so bad , however i used to know a brit in pattaya that had a nice eateri on the naklua road ,with his thai wife . a thai bloke had been trying to buy it but he wouldnt sell it. It was a good business on a good site .

now the brit owner had to go home for a spell and leave his wife to run the restaurant on her own .

The Thai bloke arranged for a girl to call his wife making out she was his lover and she was missing him while he was away !

The thai wife was outraged and rang him up in england and told him not to come back and that he was a scumbag .

The brit didnt know what she was talking about and protested his innocence but she wouldnt believe him .

By the time he got back she had sold the place to the thai bloke and cleared off !!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

At least for now, I think Hua Hin is different to the bigger centers. Less competition etc.

[Dondi]

thanks guys for the senseible answers

people with the knowledge might be able to help me here

is a restuarant in Hua Hin safer then buying out a bar , im a chef 4yrs in the making but would pefer to run a bar , are the risk to high in Hua Hin even tho i have friendlies with the police ?? i had major negative repsonse's to this question on another forum

thanks again guys , finally i found some smart people , not young smartarse babies

[davethailand]

not all cases are the same.

i have alot of farang friends who have good business's in pattaya, they've been going for a while and still going well.

my business is 3 years old now, over 50% of my staff are from the 1st year of opening and we are growing stronger every month.

alot of the problems that were mentioned before are when people buy and don,t check it out thoroughly before.

as far as my business is concerned it cannot be sold or changed unless my british partner and myself signs. same goes for the lease.

[bmanly]

It simply comes down to LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. I've been in real estate all my life and that word is what makes or breaks the business. OK, I was asked to give moral support to a beer bar in soi 8 (Pattaya) for a friend upon opening. I bought the flowers and gave moral support to it's opening, however I felt something was wrong. This English guy bought a back bar near the toilets and to get to it you had to walk past 10 other bars. That was fault #1. Fault #2 was the price, why on earth would anyone pay 70 baht for a beer and talk to himself when he can go down the road for 45 baht and be in a bar thats pumping with live music? Upon explaining this to his Thai partner she sort of said mai pen rai, have friend come later get busy. For weeks it never did. In the end they were turfed out for no being able to pay the rent, they lost the lot and believe you me the Thai lady was pissed off that she lost her share too.

Then there is another mate in soi 7 he opened a bar right on the road in the first spot in front of all the other bars. His bar is always full, has plenty of girls and he does well. What's the secret? Best location and fairly priced beers. I strongly suggest that paying 100,000 baht key money for bad location "to save money" is much worse than paying 500,000 for the best location that has evidence of being "full all the time".

[Bluecat]

Location is important if you do the same than anybody else. Which, by nature, is quite risky, even with the right location,...

If you can make yourbar different in any way than the rest of them, location is not important, advertisement (word of mouth?) is important,...

And the ones making REAL money are the "different" ones,...

[markt]

If you can make yourbar different in any way than the rest of them, location is not important, advertisement (word of mouth?) is important,...

And the ones making REAL money are the "different" ones,...

When the Classroom (Pttylnd) first opened it was packed every night.

It was even attracting those who didn't usually drink in the go go bars. It's opening created a buzz around town that was not there before.

Slippery Stan.

[fatter than harry]

A friend of mine wanted to buy a bar just off Soi Bangla in Phuket, he had a 'sweet' deal whereby he didn't have to pay any key money, just 30,000 rent / month.

He was going to be different to other bars by adhereing to a strict musical policy of what he liked as opposed to the rolling Eminem song that you can spend all evening listening to if you are on a bangla crawl.

A month in and no customers, he started buying Eminem / ketchup song / dido cd's and turned himself into another part of the bangla jukebox, bless him.

He managed to last 3 months in all and that was only because he ran a book on the EPL and gave better odds than the Thai bookies - and don't let that be taken as sound advice as two months undercutting the Thai bookies is about as long as you get with your own kneecaps.

Incidentally there should be a study made on the octopus bar at the end of soi seadragon - great location, air con, no customers, up for its fourth or fifth sale in 18 months? - how did that happen? Should have been a winner.

[Moving]

Knowing you have been to Hua Hin you know it is not Pattaya...Although I spent only a few months in Hua Hin and don't claim to be an expert, I really enjoyed the area...the bar "area" is small and getting smaller. The King and his Family 'summer' there...'nuff said. The area is very clean...including the vendors...very little Go-Go activity..mostly very quiet.

The ocean front (peers) is in the process of being taken over by the larger chain hotels. A number of very good golf courses so there are a significant number of big money Japanese. Most of the falang bar owners I talked to enjoyed the area, for the most part they had no aspirations to make a million (good thing) and were happy...many were looking to sell at a price. Those that had restaurants required an excellent marketing strategy and needed significant word of mouth, links to tourist activities etc.

What is it "you don't get?" Same as any other business venture...How much time (this means 'work') and money are you willing to spend to be happy with what you have. The three elements that get the most attention are ...location, marketing, and bringing in something different that sets your business apart from the hundreds doing the same thing....From my perspective, it is doing your homework and the most important part of this is setting a level of work and money going in that gives you a level of profit you are happy with.

Take a good look at the posts from Davethailand and Bluecat...seem to have thier stuff in one sock

[Guest IT Manager]

Interesting the number of folks with bars who do well, as opposed to those who don't do so well. seems a fair sort of balance sometimes, other times all bar owners appear to lose their shirts which we all know just isn't so.

The location issue is part of it obviously, but then I see ads running for "air conditioned bars". For my view, no thanks, unless I'm in a hotel. It isn't the same drinking in the sterile atmosphere of a closed room, but they are always better equipped, nicer staff, more attention to clients...and empty.

Maybe someone should write a book about how to do it properly, or maybe a book about bars in Thailand, and what the ones that stay have in common.

[londonguy]

we all know that location matters, but so does the way the bar is run. Some people dont seem to have the right attitude to make it in Thailand. If you come to England you see just as many badly run pubs.. it seems to be the same thing "lets get a bar and make money" if you cant run a business then you cant run a bar.

With regards to running a restaurant in Hua Hin, I think you would struggle the majority of places are run by locals at very competitive prices. A new one (Sorry cant remember name) recently opened opposite the "All Nations" excellent food and good prices, I spoke to the owner who was only just covering his overheads and that was in high season - god help him in low season.

A lot of the european tourists in Hua Hin seem to stay in the large resort type hotels outside the town then come into town just to shop and occasionaly drink.

[organic]

Largely agree with londonguy, though it isn't just about business, it's about creating a welcoming atmosphere in the place. A lot of pubs in the uk are either miserable dumps or bland chain places, it's only a minority of publicans who have the ability to create the 'warmth' that pulls customers in. Difference is here, if you can't do that, it's your own money you're losing.

And yeah, you have to make most of your dosh in the 3 months or so of the high season. I certainly wouldn't want to open a bar now, wouldn't it be better to get fitted out in Oct and open in Nov?

[chonabot]

I Ran a bar in Pattaya back in 1992 , soi Pattayaland2 , just my luck , within 2 weeks of opening , half of the establishments decided they would become Gay bars , like the Deep six song. This was not for me , I left , lost key money.

The beer was good though....actually it was crap..... I dreamt the whole thing up whilst asleep in a small box of matches...

[markt]

It wasn't Chonabot's GB bar was it ?

[chonabot]

It was next to Cheers bar , I believe the welsh git Colin still resides there , he has no aversion to the mincing that occurs on an hourly basis...

Stanley Fry was the boy in Ptyland 2 , good old fashioned Lawyer.....wonder where he is today.....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It was next to Cheers bar , I believe the welsh git Colin still resides there , he has no aversion to the mincing that occurs on an hourly basis...

Stanley Fry was the boy in Ptyland 2 , good old fashioned Lawyer.....wonder where he is today.....

I reckon you should run a bar for a year, and if you are still happy with it, open it to the public

[chonabot]

Hic....I'll drink to that Doc!..........

[Boon Mee]

A good example of a guy who did not know how to run a bar but with lots of good ideas was the famous Cowboy of Soi Cowboy fame. He was in the right place at the right time and made/lost a lot of money.

[fatter than harry]

Another good example would be Barry Nana - in 82 he opened Bar Nana and twenty years later look where he is......well, he died of Syphullis a long time ago but thats not the point.

[Boon Mee]

Yeah, a lot of guys in Thailand (and in the PI) subscribe to the Neil Young philosophy of "It's better to burn out than to fade away".

You gotta pace yourself...

[davethailand]

It was next to Cheers bar , I believe the welsh git Colin still resides there , he has no aversion to the mincing that occurs on an hourly basis...

Stanley Fry was the boy in Ptyland 2 , good old fashioned Lawyer.....wonder where he is today..... 

last time i heard stanley had been a bit naughty, i heard he was in custody, don't quote me on that.

[chonabot]

It was next to Cheers bar , I believe the welsh git Colin still resides there , he has no aversion to the mincing that occurs on an hourly basis...

Stanley Fry was the boy in Ptyland 2 , good old fashioned Lawyer.....wonder where he is today..... 

last time i heard stanley had been a bit naughty, i heard he was in custody but i don,t know.

Oh dear... he seemed a bit dodgy but never ripped me off , as far as I know , hope he is ok though , always bought a few drinks , actually he prdered a few drinks but the chit ended up in my tray...oh well Halcyon days.

Dave let us know if you find out his circumstances please?

[Patong Bob]

Does anybody know what is happening with that Ocopus pub mentioned a few posts ago. Is it really selling for the 4th/5th time or is it just for sale ? Great location but I have never seen a customer in it.

p.s. if you want 99% certainty of losing your money try Soi Easy or Soi Gonzo in Patong.