U.S. FATCA Info from Bangkok Bank

[Pib]

While on the Bangkok Bank website today I noticed they have a FATCA Question & Answers document posted. Some good info in the document....talks general FATCA info and how Bangkok Bank is handling FATCA with its customers (expect it will be similar with other Thai banks). My apologizes if this has already been posted in some of the other FATCA threads which have got kinda long.

The document link can be found in the upper right hand corner of this Bangkok Bank webpage. Also attached is the actual PDF document from the webpage as of today, but in case the document undergoes updates (which it probably will) a person probably should just check above webpage occasionally to get the latest info.

FATCA.pdf

[maxman71]

Interesting to see that the Thai FFI's not only knuckled under to the US/IRS' requirement to abide by FATCA, but that the Thai FFI's have pulled together a reasonable document for US persons to complete when opening an account, etc. and met compliance requirements in a reasonable manner.

Also, I don't see any mention that Thai FFI's are going to impose some sort of surcharge to US customers for having an account and the resulting extra documentation and reporting burden to the US/IRS. Not yet anyway.

But we will see if any US persons with accounts in Thailand who haven't been in compliance with their FBAR's and FATCA get caught in this snare. If so, we may see some "interesting" posts on TV...

[noendtoit]

Well, it looks like it's finally come to pass . . . and that banks are going to report ALL accounts of US persons, not just those over $50K. Woe be it to all those "US persons" who have been keeping 400K or 800K for visa extensions and have not been filing the FBAR . . .

It's all pretty amazing, they way the computing world is closing the loop . . .

Uncle Sam has a mighty long dick, doesn't he.

[dinger]

I have always kept my accounts under the thresholds to try and stay away from this. However in reading the document that PIB provided it opens some new questions. One of the reporting requirements regards certain Life Insurance accounts, now how do you define the value of a life insurance policy with regards to reporting?

[utkb]

It will be interesting to see how they start informing the Thai banks will inform the Thai spouses that they are US persons if their husbands are declaring them as non-resident spouses on their income taxes (married filed jointly).

Citibank has already limited their (the Thai spouses) to only time deposits. Other Thai banks may follow suit and keep them out of certain funds the banks offer.

Edited August 14, 2014 by utkb

[noendtoit]

It will be interesting to see how they start informing the Thai banks will inform the Thai spouses that they are US persons if their husbands are declaring them as non-resident spouses on their income taxes (married filed jointly).

Citibank has already limited their (the Thai spouses) to only time deposits. Other Thai banks may follow suit and keep them out of certain funds the banks offer.

This has certainly occurred to me. The best thing for a US expat to do is make sure the expat and spouse have accounts at different banks. An American citizen is obvious,as the bank has the passport. And now that said citizens will be forced by the bank to disgorge Social Security numbers for IRS reporting, the loop will be closed. But the wife, despite having an EIN and being a "US person" by virtue of the joint filing, can ignore the whole thing, assuming the spouse has no other US contact beyond marriage and the joint filing (e.g., no green card). There is simply no way to track her, as long as she refuses to fill out any of the forms, and why would a bank ask her to do it in the first place?

There would be no way to track any of us without that Social Security number, but that little loophole of anonymity is snapping shut.

The Big Question is this: Regarding those who have had over $10,000 by virtue of visa extensions, but have never filed the FBAR, will their Thai banks honor an IRS bank deposit seizure order should the IRS decide to impose a big civil fine and ask questions later? What havock for a guy who doesn't have much and all his assets are in Thailand. He's got his visa money seasoning, and suddenly,wham, bam, it's gone. Has no money, can't get the visa. Party over.

It's a helluva penalty for failing to file a disclosure form where no assets have been hidden or taxes owed. In other words, it is a SEVERE penalty for no wrong committed. In fact, one could argue that the very word, "disclosure" runs counter to the Fifth Amendment. But these days, making an argument for practically any Constitutional protection is like pissing into the wind. The Constitution appears to be gone with the wind. I guess that is a big reason why I am here. Fewer "rights," but one hell of a lot more freedom.

[JimGant]

It's a helluva penalty for failing to file a disclosure form where no assets have been hidden or taxes owed. In other words, it is a SEVERE penalty for no wrong committed.

No penalty, period -- if taxes were paid on funds subject to FBAR (or if no taxes were owed due to gross income, including FBAR earnings, less than filing requirement threshold).

Congress authorized the Form FinCEN 114 (“FBAR”) filing requirement, and the draconian penalty of 31 USC 5321(a)(5)© for willful failure to file an FBAR, to curb evasion of United States income tax by use of foreign accounts. Intuitively, the 31 USC 5321(a)(5)© penalty ought not apply where the account owner owes no income tax on the account. The Internal Revenue Service (“IRS”) has recently confirmed that indeed this is the case.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephendunn/2014/07/20/all-you-need-to-do-is-file-your-delinquent-fbars/

[noendtoit]

It's a helluva penalty for failing to file a disclosure form where no assets have been hidden or taxes owed. In other words, it is a SEVERE penalty for no wrong committed.

No penalty, period -- if taxes were paid on funds subject to FBAR (or if no taxes were owed due to gross income, including FBAR earnings, less than filing requirement threshold).

Congress authorized the Form FinCEN 114 (“FBAR”) filing requirement, and the draconian penalty of 31 USC 5321(a)(5)© for willful failure to file an FBAR, to curb evasion of United States income tax by use of foreign accounts. Intuitively, the 31 USC 5321(a)(5)© penalty ought not apply where the account owner owes no income tax on the account. The Internal Revenue Service (“IRS”) has recently confirmed that indeed this is the case.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephendunn/2014/07/20/all-you-need-to-do-is-file-your-delinquent-fbars/

I have read dozens of accounts of people getting screwed with fines who owed no taxes and had not filed their FBARs. I was prepared to say "You are wrong." But in those accounts, they had tried to come clean by entering the punitive OVDP.

Thanks for posting that Forbes article. I have read tons of stuff, including dozens of IRS postings and have never seen anything like this; it's a breath of fresh air for those who want to come into compliance without big fines. I have a friend whose life as he knows it will change if the IRS knocks on his door first. I hope he will avail himself of this opportunity to get into compliance.

This should settle it for all those who have not filed their FBAR's, but have paid all their taxes and done nothing wrong.