Living arrangements back home versus temporary living arrngements in Thailand

[watgate]

I am setting myself up for criticism considering the petulance of some posters but I will suggest that the only bad question is the question not asked. With that said, and maybe I am early with my question because the arrival of the "snow-birders" or folks who winter in Thailand hasn't started yet. I am wondering if most folks who come to Thailand for the winter months have a permanent residence back in the country whence they came from? Maybe some are lucky enough to have an arrangement whereby they only have to pay their bills while they are living in their home country, and when in Thailand ,they don't have to pay for both their residence in their home country,as well as their place in Thailand. I am looking to sell my condo in the USA and trying to position myself so that I can stay in Thailand for upwards of 7-8 months at a time and upon going back to the USA I have a place to stay without having to be burdened with bills,etc for the whole year. I am even considering purchasing an RV (recreational vehicle) and parking it at a relatives place to use as my place to live upon my return back to the USA each year for the 3-4 months I would be there. Any experiences or input related to this would be appreciated and I am ready for the "weisenheimers" and their caustic comments and am hoping for some wise and sage advice or input interspersed through the feedback.

Edited August 13, 2014 by watgate

[yoslim]

why not live full time in Thailand, do you really have to go back to the USA?

[David48]

'Wintering in Thailand' ... written by by someone from the Northern Hemisphere ...

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[Diplomatico]

Why not rent your US condo for part of the year?

[northernjohn]

There is a gypsy type population living in North America. I met one in Burns Lake B C Canada. They had an Airstream trailer with a short wave in it to communicate with other like minded people. They would go to Arizona for the winters. They would leave early and visit people on the way down.

You might want to consider that as it will allow you a degree of freedom to move around when you are in the states.

The same with a mobile home.

[mamborobert]

I have been doing this for a few years, not wintering as such but throughout different parts of the year spending months in Cm and months in my home country, Australia.

It may not be the best use of an asset but I like going back to my home in Oz. There are expenses with rates/insurance etc but generally speaking these would be substantially less than finding an alternate accommodation. There is also the issue that it's mine. By that I mean I can stay as long as I want, do what I want, not impose on anyone else ..... That level of personal freedom comes at a cost but I would not have it any other way. Its comfortable or familiar otherwise for me anyway it would not be going "home" in the fullest sense.

To me the ongoing bills are not that much and is offset by things like having the ability to leave at a moment when there are cheap flights back to Thailand. I would have thought that the costs (and depreciation) on a good RV would be more than many years of residential bills (while your house is hopefully appreciating in value the RV is depreciating). Your experience may be much different depending on your bills.

I have something akin to a battalion of relatives (mostly young cousins) who are more than willing to house sit when I go and leave when I come back. That makes things a lot easier. They pay whatever utilities come in while they are there. They look after the gardens etc and minor repairs. I come back and the fridge is full and the place spotless (as they want to maintain their place in the queue This sort of deal will not last forever I imagine but its a great deal for now. I am very fortunate in this.

The other thing for me is the flexibility to go back for family functions, unexpected events, or when there are cheap flights rather than just wintering. Some times I have gone 9 months in Cm, the shortest has been just over three months.

House in CM while I am away is looked after by my wife (and her brother and I mean her real brother stays so she is not alone). Wife has been to Oz but does not like long stays. She pines for family and friends much more than I, plus TV soaps, karaoke, papaya salad etc just as I am comfortable in Oz she is comfortable in Thailand. It may be considered a rash generalisation but I have found that Thais make ok travellers/visitors but poor migrants. It's that old independence (me) verses interdependence (them) model.

I will probably sell my place in Oz at some time but probably some time after my parents have passed on. Its may be small thing to me, but it makes them happy to know that I have my house a few kilometres down the road from them and I have not "left", and that conversely is a very big thing for me..

Selling your place in US is a big deal so I would think carefully about that and really would not do it till you have been here for a few years (going for a holiday in Thailand is, as we all know, radically different than living here long term). If you are out of the market its often difficult later to get in at same level as prices and inflation take hold. With the changes going on in Thailand and visas there is also comfort in having a lifeline back.

If you can afford to run two residences for a few years I would. If you can't then initially I would be re-assessing how much time I spent in CM for a while until I was certain to the nth degree and then do as you have indicated.

Either way..its a good life ...and good luck

[larsjohnsson]

I live full time in Bangkok. But I still have a condo in my home country. It's expensive but really nice. I go back to my home country a few weeks every year. Instead of selling it I can rent it out if I need money.

Edited August 14, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[NancyL]

Some of my friends go back to the U.S. and stay with their kids for a few months at a time, playing grandma, rotating between the kids. Most do this for a year or two and then decide it's just more fun to stay in Chiang Mai year-round, rather than being an unpaid babysitter in a cold climate.

Edited August 14, 2014 by NancyL

[true blue]

i burnt my bridges 4 years ago.and though i get a bit guilty about not seeing kids/grand kids,ive never regretted a minute of it at the moment im enjoying the best years of my life in los,no millstone around my next of 2nd property on the other side of the world.and no BIG bills to pay in the so called civilised west.

[Biikqth]

Agree with Mamborobert.

So, OP, if you still have strong ties with your home country, regardless of the nature of those ties, there is a lot of sense in retaining a house or apartment providing this is not a burden.

Following our retirement, my wife and I are planning to spend much more time in Thailand. But we have family and investments in my home country so we think is is worth retaining some type of permanent base there. We are however considering the idea of selling our very nice spacious home and replacing it with a smaller, less costly, easier to maintain, more secure apartment. Similar to what we have in CM. We do own a nice caravan but don't see that as a long term accommodation option for us as elderly citizens. Nor is it great for visitors. I also said to our sons, that they can expect to inherit our properties but we will spend the cash, so I suppose we should retain some properties for them !!

[rhodie]

Have not made the move yet, but I will rent my place out and be happy to take a room as a boarder, stay with the kids now and then or I know I can get a room at a reasonable rate in some of the smaller residential hotels in the area I live in.

Would probably only be looking at 6 to 8 weeks a year though.

[northernjohn]

i burnt my bridges 4 years ago.and though i get a bit guilty about not seeing kids/grand kids,ive never regretted a minute of it at the moment im enjoying the best years of my life in los,no millstone around my next of 2nd property on the other side of the world.and no BIG bills to pay in the so called civilised west.

Well I didn't burn my bridges in regards to relationships. I most certainly burned them in regards to materialism. Sold my house and gave all the furnishings to my oldest who was just starting over again. I now refuse to let property run my life. I am retired and have a big enough income that I don't need to save for my old age. I am already there.

Will admit it has been several years since I was back there. And as I type they are setting up for a family reunion today their time. I would like to be there as my uncle is there he is the oldest living one now with myself being the second oldest. Will probably return next year. In the mean time I am a free person with nothing holding me back other than the wife who would freely move with me if I was to choose to do so.

When it comes to returning for a visit I have relatives and friends spread all over the West Coast of Canada and the States to stay with. I find that a month and a half is to long so residing with them is not a problem.

I will admit that when I made the move I did have a back up plan of relocating to Victoria B C. But it was not needed.

[watgate]

Admittedly,part of my problem or phobia is my mail situation. Although I do online bill paying, I am still very reticent to go completely computer since I have an aversion to possible hackers and malware, etc. I am very organized and need a place where my mail is delivered to so upon my return back to the USA I can go through it and sort it out. The thought of having my mail forwarded to Thailand is not very palpable to me and would worry about lost or stolen mail. I am in the process of trying to establish a situation whereby I can stay in Thailand for upwards of 8 months at a clip and then go back to the USA to get my mail, do my taxes, maybe work a little bit, see my friends and relatives a bit and then get ready to head back to Thailand for another 8 months or so. I want to dump my condo because I don't relish the thought of paying condo fees, taxes, insurance, etc on a place that is vacant for 8 months at a clip. Renting it out doesn't sound practical since it would be hard to find someone for that limited duration. I don't want to completely divest myself of any ties to the USA since my excellent health insurance coverage is only good in the USA. Anyway I appreciate the feedback and need to resolve my situation so I can enjoy Thailand for 8 months or so every year.

[mesquite]

Admittedly,part of my problem or phobia is my mail situation. Although I do online bill paying, I am still very reticent to go completely computer since I have an aversion to possible hackers and malware, etc. I am very organized and need a place where my mail is delivered to so upon my return back to the USA I can go through it and sort it out. The thought of having my mail forwarded to Thailand is not very palpable to me and would worry about lost or stolen mail. I am in the process of trying to establish a situation whereby I can stay in Thailand for upwards of 8 months at a clip and then go back to the USA to get my mail, do my taxes, maybe work a little bit, see my friends and relatives a bit and then get ready to head back to Thailand for another 8 months or so. I want to dump my condo because I don't relish the thought of paying condo fees, taxes, insurance, etc on a place that is vacant for 8 months at a clip. Renting it out doesn't sound practical since it would be hard to find someone for that limited duration. I don't want to completely divest myself of any ties to the USA since my excellent health insurance coverage is only good in the USA. Anyway I appreciate the feedback and need to resolve my situation so I can enjoy Thailand for 8 months or so every year.

Mail forwarding and physical address: www.escapees.com. I forward everything registered mail and nothing sent that way has been lost. Not all that expensive. All my US mail goes there and that is my "official" US address for voting, US driver license, bank address, etc. Texas address so no state income tax.

Package forwarding: www.shipito.com. I order multiple packages from various online vendors and have them consolidated and shipped to Thailand. No problem except ever since January 2014 the packages stay in customs for 10 days or so here in Thailand.

I can track all forwarded mail and packages online.

Skype online US number for $60 per year.

All in all, lots cheaper than keeping a residence there. When I go back, which is less and less, I get a hotel or stay with relatives.

Edited August 17, 2014 by mesquite

[RikDao]

Admittedly,part of my problem or phobia is my mail situation. Although I do online bill paying, I am still very reticent to go completely computer since I have an aversion to possible hackers and malware, etc. I am very organized and need a place where my mail is delivered to so upon my return back to the USA I can go through it and sort it out. The thought of having my mail forwarded to Thailand is not very palpable to me and would worry about lost or stolen mail. I am in the process of trying to establish a situation whereby I can stay in Thailand for upwards of 8 months at a clip and then go back to the USA to get my mail, do my taxes, maybe work a little bit, see my friends and relatives a bit and then get ready to head back to Thailand for another 8 months or so. I want to dump my condo because I don't relish the thought of paying condo fees, taxes, insurance, etc on a place that is vacant for 8 months at a clip. Renting it out doesn't sound practical since it would be hard to find someone for that limited duration. I don't want to completely divest myself of any ties to the USA since my excellent health insurance coverage is only good in the USA. Anyway I appreciate the feedback and need to resolve my situation so I can enjoy Thailand for 8 months or so every year.

Mail forwarding and physical address: www.escapees.com. I forward everything registered mail and nothing sent that way has been lost. Not all that expensive. All my US mail goes there and that is my "official" US address for voting, US driver license, bank address, etc. Texas address so no state income tax.

Package forwarding: www.shipito.com. I order multiple packages from various online vendors and have them consolidated and shipped to Thailand. No problem except ever since January 2014 the packages stay in customs for 10 days or so here in Thailand.

I can track all forwarded mail and packages online.

Skype online US number for $60 per year.

All in all, lots cheaper than keeping a residence there. When I go back, which is less and less, I get a hotel or stay with relatives.

Hey, thanks for this info, mesquite. I'm new in Thailand, in my first year anyway, and I'm also nervous about mail, etc.

And thanks to OP for bringing up this subject. Sometimes I'm a bit shy about posting questions like this on TV because I don't care for a lot of the dripping sarcasm, such as "Oh, this thread again???" (But then, I'm guilty of sarcasm meself now and then, mainly when the OP is obviously from England, the "Mother Country." (Sarcasm, that! Love England!))

[chiang mai]

It is cheaper to to live in Thailand than it is to live in the US, there is no holding cost of accommodation here and temporary accommodation is inexpensive, as the OP points out, his holding costs in the US comprises taxes, utilities, maintenance and other things. But unless the OP is planning to move to live in Thailand full time, I would be inclined to hang on to the US bolt hole, it will come in handy in a few years time when his love affair with and the novelty of Thailand wears off, perhaps! I appreciate his budget may be tight but probably better insurance to spend the extra money to maintain the US residence and live more cheaply for the months he is here - you can always sell up later and I doubt you'll loose money as a result.

[cardinalblue]

It really gets down to if you afford a home in your own country and the maintenance of it..

I know four American guys who spend from 3-6 months a year at home all during the summer and fall months there...

Usually the lack of funds to maintain two places cars insurance cost of living in America is the main reason why people don't have two households...

Wealthy people sure seem to like their home country more than those on limited funds..sure there is that person or two who could afford both residencies and live full-time in Thailand...

Those with limited funds are the ones who seem to come up with the most reasons why they don't split time but cost is not one of them...

Those who bum off friends and family for extended stays do not fall into the two residency camp as these are usually short-lived and eventually become uncomfortable for all parties involved...lack of financial independence is usually the underlying cause...

CB

[uhhh ohhh]

Many different ideas here and most very good. With different situations for all of us, both financial and family/friends, it doesn't surprise me of the many varied responses.

I'm still overseeing an elderly parent so just remaining in Thailand is not an option. That said, I also enjoy many friends back in the states as well as food, lifestyle, medical facilities and numerous other things so I'll probably never be ready for a complete transition to Thailand. I also enjoy many friends, food and the lifestyle here so most of my time is in Chiang Mai.

But traveling back to the states, sometimes 3 or 4 months at a time, I became tired of paying for hotels or higher priced short term apartments so I bought an inexpensive condo in an adult community with low taxes and maintenance. I did put a pencil to it and I'd rather be building some equity back there as opposed to giving it to a landlord. In addition, being away, my utility bills are paid on-line and obviously very low when I'm not there. Also, and this is a personal thing of mine, but I don't like staying with friends or relatives more than a week. As Ben Franklin said...."GUESTS, LIKE FISH, BEGIN TO SMELL AFTER THREE DAYS."

I'm fortunate to be able to afford two residences at this point, although I only rent over here and probably will not buy, unless I meet someone here and want things to become possibly more permanent. Gee....does anyone think my expenses might go up with a female companion here? Lol. I do live modestly but well in each locale and enjoy to travel in both America and SE Asia when funds allow. There's a lot of things I haven't seen in both countries/areas that are on my "Bucket List."

Thanks for all of the interesting posts. I did get some ideas regarding mail and other issues that were helpful to me!

[cardinalblue]

Sounds like you have things well in hand..it would be interesting to know what factors influence what months you elect to live in America and if that would change if your situation changes...

Dating a thai lady...would be itemized as family costs?

CB

[uhhh ohhh]

Sounds like you have things well in hand..it would be interesting to know what factors influence what months you elect to live in America and if that would change if your situation changes...

Dating a thai lady...would be itemized as family costs?

CB

Sadly for me my trips back have been dictated by emergencies. Mother in car accident....a trip back. Mother breaks her leg and ankle....a trip back. Mother now needs to move to a new nursing facility....a trip back. If I had my choice my trips away from Chiang Mai would be during the smokey season....February/March and probably the summer rainy months we have been experiencing. I hate not seeing the sun for so long. Those are just my personal choices that have never really worked out during the past six years. Hopefully I'll have more personal discretion in the coming years!

If the situation with my mother were to stabilize and I met a nice Thai woman I would prefer to be away from here during February/March and probably July/August/September. Some of that time would be back in America but also sometime would be traveling through Asia to see some countries I want to learn more about.....Cambodia, Vietnam and China. I also like Singapore but my time there would be somewhat curtailed by the expense of traveling there. It's not a cheap country to visit! At least for me!

[NancyL]

Sounds like you have things well in hand..it would be interesting to know what factors influence what months you elect to live in America and if that would change if your situation changes...

Dating a thai lady...would be itemized as family costs?

CB

Sadly for me my trips back have been dictated by emergencies. Mother in car accident....a trip back. Mother breaks her leg and ankle....a trip back. Mother now needs to move to a new nursing facility....a trip back. If I had my choice my trips away from Chiang Mai would be during the smokey season....February/March and probably the summer rainy months we have been experiencing. I hate not seeing the sun for so long. Those are just my personal choices that have never really worked out during the past six years. Hopefully I'll have more personal discretion in the coming years!

If the situation with my mother were to stabilize and I met a nice Thai woman I would prefer to be away from here during February/March and probably July/August/September. Some of that time would be back in America but also sometime would be traveling through Asia to see some countries I want to learn more about.....Cambodia, Vietnam and China. I also like Singapore but my time there would be somewhat curtailed by the expense of traveling there. It's not a cheap country to visit! At least for me!

When Hubby and I were running the numbers about retiring here, we talked with our financial counselor in the U.S. Turns out he's had a few other clients who have retired to Thailand and just love it (and this was in early 2008 -- before the crash). His big piece of advice was to make sure you have your personal life in the home country in order before you make the big move or else you'll find the cost of emergency trips back home will soon eat into whatever savings your experiencing by living in Thailand. Some examples he cited were arrest of your college age kid with drug addiction c problems and declining health of a parent and the need to find alternate care for them.

Edited August 20, 2014 by NancyL

[cheynewalk]

I considered buying a unit on the gold coast, australia for my trips back there. However when i did the maths body corporate fees, rates and insurance would have added up to at least $6,000 per year. For that money i could rent a holiday unit on the gold coast for $300 per week outside the school holidays and xmas periods, which would give me 20 weeks a year anyway.

Sure, i would miss out on capital appreciation (not that there is any on the gold coast at the moment), but i wouldn't sell it anyway and i can just keep the purchase money in a term deposit at 4% per annum.

Figure renting is the stress free option, especially since i have rented out my places before whilst travelling and got sick of the estate agents constantly complaining to me long distance about noisy, dirty tenants, not paying rent, property damage etc.