Batteries

[h90]

I have a CNC machine (actually for producing special hydraulic seals).

it is controlled by a sinumeric siemens controller and for its permanent memory it uses AA standard batteries.

The electronic is arround 15 years old. usually it should warn me 1 month before the batteries get empty. Than you can exchange them fast when the machine is running.

I would like to exchange it now, even it is not yet empty and I would put in the most expensive best brand I can get.

But is it any good, is a modern batterie maybe different (more stable in voltage and when empty droping faster, so less warning time) or a bit higher or lower on voltage, more sensitive on anything?

It is really a big issue, as I am not sure if I can play back the original software into the machine in case of electronic-alzheimer. That would result in a change from a 2 mill production machine to a nice donation to a museum.....

So any electronic geck who know something?

[paulfr]

We'll igore the 'geek' insult for now.

Batteries have been improving rapidly over the last 15 years as more and more demand has increased competition resulting in more research and better quality.

If you just replace them with Duracells or another brand name battery(assuming they can take a minute or two of removal due to some capacitance across the nodes) you should be fine.

[Crossy]

If I were you, considering the ramifications of the batteries going flat, I would not wait for the 'low battery' signal.

Change them now for Duracell and then change them regularly (say annually, use a calendar!), you can always use the part-spent batteries in the TV remote or clock.

Out of interest, which model Sinumeric Siemens controller does the machine use?

[monty]

Supposedly the new Panasonic "Oxyride" batteries have even more capacity then the alkaline duracells.

Not sure if it fits the bill for you because they are ideal for big power users like digital cameras. whereas in your application it's important that they keep their voltage over a very long time when under a very small load (which alkaline's do very good)...

[Firefoxx]

Strange that it has managed to back up electronics for 15 years. Motherboard batteries don't last that long... and in this case it's a standard AA. Methinks it's not as standard as stated.

[tjo o tjim]

I don't know that generation of controllers, but I haven't seen any myself that use a 1.5V backup. I would expect it to be at least four cells (6V) that degrades gracefully to 3V.

Can the program be downloaded for backup? On our older GE PLCs (different application) we always burned a backup EEPROM when making changes. They were EOL'd a couple years back, so we had to do a painful PLC replacement...

[yeti]

I would use standard batteries of a good brand (Duracell or equivalent), but would avoid the new type of batteries that you can find, which promess longer use for digital cameras and other electronics equipments. Those long life batteries may deliver a slightly higher voltage at the beginning which could be a problem with an old equipment.

If I were you, I would also try to find the model number, who knows you may find one on eBay to use as a backup...

[elkangorito]

If this is old equipment that monitors battery terminal voltage, my battery preference would be standard zinc/carbon batteries as they have a slow performance decay. This may give time for the ancient PLC to give it's "battery failing" warning & also time for you to replace it without worry.

Modern alkaline cells are designed for high performance for the longest time. As a consequence, they have a sharp performance decay.

I suppose the best bet is to fork out for a new PLC.

[h90]

paulfr: "We'll igore the 'geek' insult for now."

sorry is that insulting? I'm not a native english speaker and I thought that it is just slang for someone who is very specialist on one topic....

If it is insulting: sorry....I am not an english geek --> maybe wrong use of that word......

thanks for the advice with the Duracell...

Crossy: Sinumeric: 810T GA3 (if I remember wrong, don't want to start it now) lathe machine for tunring special designed seals. Actually can do everything like the newest models, just maybe a bit manual programming is necessary.

monty: also thought for these batteries but not sure if they will do any good or not?

Firefoxx: no it dit not I think the former owner changed them every year, just for me everything is new.

tjo o tjim: theoretic we can backup everything and I have the original software on disk. But I have big problems with the old software it seems it does not work 100 % on new computer.

Usually you design a seal on PC and upload it to the CNC machine. That works perfect. But the download works but is not shown on the PC, so I can not backup.....

Yeti: that idea with Ebay: I'll try that...

[paulfr]

h90

Apology accepted. No big deal.

JFYI ... the polite term for one knowledgable in some area is 'techie' usually applying to computers and internet subjects.

Also, on a personal note, some thirty-seven years ago I was at the company that built the first programmable controller. It was in Massachusets and the company was Bedford Associates. There were several tech veterans from MIT and the area starting a new company looking for the right product. One project in house was this 'progammable controller'. I remember the specs coming around the office for comments and noticing the output relays would handle 5 amps and thought that to be very high .... I was a green grad student at the time on this summer job I had landed by making cold calls to engineering managers for 2 days.

Anyway, the product was a hit and they spun off a compnay to run with it called Modicon (not to be confused with Modicon Computers in Florida).

Cheers

Edited July 12, 2006 by paulfr

[h90]

h90

Apology accepted. No big deal.

JFYI ... the polite term for one knowledgable in some area is 'techie' usually applying to computers and internet subjects.

Also, on a personal note, some thirty-seven years ago I was at the company that built the first programmable controller. It was in Massachusets and the company was Bedford Associates. There were several tech veterans from MIT and the area starting a new company looking for the right product. One project in house was this 'progammable controller'. I remember the specs coming around the office for comments and noticing the output relays would handle 5 amps and thought that to be very high .... I was a green grad student at the time on this summer job I had landed by making cold calls to engineering managers for 2 days.

Anyway, the product was a hit and they spun off a compnay to run with it called Modicon (not to be confused with Modicon Computers in Florida).

Cheers

paulfr: for me its amazing how easy these things, even the old one, are to program, like go this axis 10 mm, that axis 5 mm, radius.....

Just a little bit reading in the guide and a few old programs to know which tool can do which speed and you can program basically everything.....