What Do You Think When You See A Western Man And A Thai Woman?

[thohts]

What is it that Western women are thinking when they see me with my Thai girlfriend? I know one person can't speak for everyone, but some insight would be appreciated.

I'm not here trying to troll or incite comparisons of this-and-that. I'm sure I'm not the first guy to think, "what is she thinking?" when such awkward glances (or worse) are received. I respect this forum and am hoping that my own curiousity will be at least partially satiated.

Both my girlfriend of a couple of years and I are both ~30, well-dressed, fairly attractive, and friendly. But for some reason, we often get awkward, sometimes 'impolite' looks from Western women as though we were to be some kind of evil force. Usually it's when we're in an elevator or on the BTS. While I realize that women naturally tend to scrutinize one-another, I have observed people enough to know the difference between a curious stare (or even envious) and a look of disdain, and am observant enough to know it is not paranoia.

We've met some women with whom we've become friends with but have not, unfortunately, been willing to ask them directly about what they were thinking when they first saw us. None of them are from the US or Europe, which is where I hope some of the insight will come from.

Why does it bother me? Sure.. everyone has their own opinion and it's usually none of my concern. But with this, it feels like some kind of unknown rejection from people (strangers, basically) that you feel a kinship with.

I've often heard it said (back in the US, before I realized I was also attracted to Asian women) that men are usually interested in Asian women because they are passive. While we know, generally speaking, this oversimplification isn't true I think there is still the common belief that, in a pairing of Western male/Asian female, the male has the upper hand in the relationship and is not on equal footing with the female. (e.g., "how could they possibly have anything in common when she can't even speak good English", and other assumptions). Along with the typical prostitute/sex-tourist/sugar-daddy conjectures, this is my wanting explanation for some of the looks.

Any ideas?

[thaibebop]

You shouldn't care. The looks you get are their problem not yours. I am sure that not every white woman you meet is staring you down. Forget about it and leave them to theirs.

[khall64au]

Sounds like you have a problem ... not us! Why do you ask?

[tominchaam]

Good to hear you do think about this “fact” that exists and always will exist. Many farangs in similar situation just ignores it and some even does not realise it exists. Anything in this world that does not meet what people think is “normal” has a tendency to be disliked at first. People having similar backgrounds have a tendency to act similar. Why – guess it is a human instinct and a “first reaction”. But the good thing is that according to my own experience all this fades away the moment I and my Thai wife are not longer strangers. Suddenly we are as respected as anyone else. So try to forgive those narrow minded people whose background have made them just narrow minded. Most of them are as good as you and me even if their staring is awkward and their thinking and acting very wrong!

[Minburi]

The fact is this happens to me and my wife from both men and women who appear to be tourists from god knows where every. Most fair skinned. Hows that for P.C. They see me with my wife who is Thai and they assume.

What they assume I have no idea. But I can guess.

My guesses

Poor fella can not find a girl from his own home

Sex tourist dirty old bugger

In that line of thinking

Its better now that I have daughter (15 whole months young) but still getting the look from some

Does it bug me? Alittle but not as much as it used to..Mai pen rai right

[rcalsop]

What is it that Western women are thinking when they see me with my Thai girlfriend? I know one person can't speak for everyone, but some insight would be appreciated.

I'm not here trying to troll or incite comparisons of this-and-that. I'm sure I'm not the first guy to think, "what is she thinking?" when such awkward glances (or worse) are received. I respect this forum and am hoping that my own curiousity will be at least partially satiated.

Both my girlfriend of a couple of years and I are both ~30, well-dressed, fairly attractive, and friendly. But for some reason, we often get awkward, sometimes 'impolite' looks from Western women as though we were to be some kind of evil force. Usually it's when we're in an elevator or on the BTS. While I realize that women naturally tend to scrutinize one-another, I have observed people enough to know the difference between a curious stare (or even envious) and a look of disdain, and am observant enough to know it is not paranoia.

We've met some women with whom we've become friends with but have not, unfortunately, been willing to ask them directly about what they were thinking when they first saw us. None of them are from the US or Europe, which is where I hope some of the insight will come from.

Why does it bother me? Sure.. everyone has their own opinion and it's usually none of my concern. But with this, it feels like some kind of unknown rejection from people (strangers, basically) that you feel a kinship with.

I've often heard it said (back in the US, before I realized I was also attracted to Asian women) that men are usually interested in Asian women because they are passive. While we know, generally speaking, this oversimplification isn't true I think there is still the common belief that, in a pairing of Western male/Asian female, the male has the upper hand in the relationship and is not on equal footing with the female. (e.g., "how could they possibly have anything in common when she can't even speak good English", and other assumptions). Along with the typical prostitute/sex-tourist/sugar-daddy conjectures, this is my wanting explanation for some of the looks.

Any ideas?

I know what you mean ...shopping or eating out with my very beautiful Thai wife who despite two kids and putting up with me for an eternity still has a great figure and looks much younger than she is ...me I am over the hill in UK terms ... We we are together the percieved view point is man with bar girl ... But we have two great kids and a good family life and spend all our free time time together only 4 trips out by ourselves in the last 3 years ..we prefer with the kids .....When we are together as the family the change is amazing ..the percieved and real acceptance is almost a 180 reversal we are warmly welcomed and always complemented as a great family unit with the kids picked up and fussed over and genuine questions asked . But either way we live our life for us .. no importance given to other peoples conculsions ...if it is a problem it is theirs we will not make it ours .

[thohts]

Sounds like you have a problem ... not us! Why do you ask?

It's not a problem. It's what's called a curiousity.

Heaven forbid we should use our brains in the land of smiles to think about the nature of things.

[thohts]

Yes, it's unfortunate but it seems like the reason behind it is as suspected. Good to know that being together as a family changes things.

It would be nice to have a friendly conversation with Western women and families without the assumption that I'm a sex tourist and that, although I may know how to construct a sentence or two, I really wouldn't have anything good to say so why bother.

I suppose a similar notion would be me seeing a gorgeous, intelligent-looking woman ...with another woman, and then thinking to myself "why did she have to go to the other side?" before realizing that it's completely natural and truly none of my bee's wax.

Thai people generally think the same thing, I think, when they see a foreign man and a Thai girl (especially if she has dark skin... whoa!). However, I think Thais are more respectful about it and certainly don't dish out "the looks" like Western women do. But you'd think Western women would generally be more open-minded and possess more liberal thinking abilities, no?

[slaveksh]

I'm from Europe(Serbia),live here in Miami now ,Thai wife

I've never experinced anything like that . People react in a very positive way ...

No complaints of any kind,really...

[thaigene2]

I know what you mean ...shopping or eating out with my very beautiful Thai wife who despite two kids and putting up with me for an eternity still has a great figure and looks much younger than she is ...me I am over the hill in UK terms ... We we are together the percieved view point is man with bar girl ... But we have two great kids and a good family life and spend all our free time time together only 4 trips out by ourselves in the last 3 years ..we prefer with the kids .....When we are together as the family the change is amazing ..the percieved and real acceptance is almost a 180 reversal we are warmly welcomed and always complemented as a great family unit with the kids picked up and fussed over and genuine questions asked . But either way we live our life for us .. no importance given to other peoples conculsions ...if it is a problem it is theirs we will not make it ours .

Hi Richard

I know what you mean. I'm in a similar position. Two kids born here, and my wife is a stunner - me less so! When we go back to my Western homeland people probably do think miss-match more than anything else.

I think the view of western women who see a less than handsome white guy with a beautiful Asian woman may soften a bit if they see you with your kids.

I don't really notice their looks/scorn here anymore (though our age difference isn't that great, so maybe that's why)..but sometimes Western couples do stare a bit more at our kids who are also really, really good looking (again from mum I'm sure). This happens on the Skytrain quite a bit. The Thai women are alwasy saying "Luuk Law"..(hansdsome boy) but the look on the foreigner's faces are more bemused. I then wonder what's going through the other farang 'guy's' head with his farang girlfrind/wife..maybe it's "Hmm, Eureka!" Then the girlfriend notices his look and thinks up some smart-arse remark?? Like someone else said..leave them to their thoughts. It's their problem..I feel more comfortable here than in the West!

[Soju]

I'm always getting looks from other farangs, but simply ignore them. A few farangs that I've spoken to think my wife is underage due to her small size and young looking face, so I think some of the looks come because of that. When they find out my wife's 21 and that we're married, they seem fine from then on.

[donna]

as not many farang women have actually answered your question, i will start the ball rolling.

i have been here for nearly 7 years. when i first came over, i guess i was very naive (as we ALL are at some stage) and used to think exactly what you have stated above. i dont like to admit it, but i did.

after being here for some time, i realised that there are so many genuine loving relationships here that it is not fair to judge people on appearances alone. each relationship has its own story.

one man i know married a bar girl. she is a great woman. i really like her. she did not go back 'on the game' after she was with him, and they live a very happy life and a successful business together.

my ex boss married a thai woman he met in australia. she is one of the coolest grand mothers i know (and she is just a few years older than me!) and i have so much respect for her. their relationship is one of the stongest i have seen here and they are still so much in love after 10 or more years.

but the funny thing is that when my ex boss and his wife are out and about, its the THAI women who ask her 'what bar do you work in?'. she has never been a bar girl, but its just assumed.

as for me - what do i think? not much really! its not any of my business what you do with your life. admittedly, sometimes when i see a much older man with a very young looking woman, i have seeds of doubt in my mind as to how genuine the relationship is, but then, i slap myself out of it and tell myself that this is none of my business.

if you are lucky enough to find a true love just one time in your life, you are very lucky indeed. dont worry about what other people think.

but please dont think it is only farang women who are making these assumptions. its not. maybe we just dont hide it as well as other people can. right or wrong, its just the way people are. thai, farang, male, female.

ultimately its YOUR life. you should not care what other people think.

life is too short for that.

[sbk]

I think the point that it isn't just western women giving you looks is a valid one, in general it will be short term tourists who assume your wife is a prostitute and you are paying for her.

Long term expats realize there are a whole range of relationships and not always are they of the sex tourist/prostitute kind. Lets just say, that as a long term expat, I can spot the difference between a legitimate relationship and a tourist/bar girl one almost immediately.

I tend to look at Thai/western couples when they have kids, always want to see how cute the kids are (almost 100% are cute but have seen a couple of funny looking ones--maybe they'll grow into it )

I also live on a small, conservative island and we are getting more and more western guys with their Thai wives moving onto the island, so I tend to be curious as to who the newcomers are. I also tend to look when the guy's wife is inappropriately dressed for the island, wonder what she thinks the locals think when they see her. Local girls almost never wear revealing clothing and it would mark her as not only an outsider but as something less than respectable by wearing such clothes. I also wonder why the guy doesn't say something, but then, maybe he doesn't realize it isn't considered respectable or doesn't care that his wife's attire is considered inappropriate.

Perhaps to some it seems silly or shallow, but I have found that if a person wants to be accepted into the local community, appearance and behavior matter.

[Patsycat]

We stare because we fancy the men ourselves!!

[sbk]

We stare because we fancy the men ourselves!!

Speak for yourself! I prefer Thai men

[Soju]

but please dont think it is only farang women who are making these assumptions. its not. maybe we just dont hide it as well as other people can. right or wrong, its just the way people are. thai, farang, male, female.

I'm not sure, but would guess that farangs can likely read other farang's facial expressions better than we can read a Thai's facial expressions. And a Thai can probably read other Thai's facial expressions better than a farang's. I also think that farangs tend to look at other farangs more than surrounding Thais as the farang stands out. And I think subconsciously we sometimes tend to ignore Thais because we can't read them as well, we see them as being different, or for whatever reason. So I agree that probably just as many Thais are thinking the same as farangs.

[kat]

Actually, I try not to look at them at all, the same way many white men here make an obvious presentation of not looking at me, unless it is a look of hostility or smug self-satisfaction. To be perfectly honest with you, I really don't care because I would never be interested in about 99.9 percent of these men, and trust me, some of these happily married men have hit on me despite what they like to say about Western women. The rest are just anonymous, blank faces, and/or glances of interest. *As for their hostile glances, I guess I don't fit their preferred profile of Western women as fat and desperate, which makes it more difficult for them to look down or sneer at me, so their real disposition shines through.

The hostility definitely goes both ways. When I first arrived, I knew absolutely nothing of the expat male "culture" here in Thailand, and was open to everyone. Slowly, I started to realize and name the hostility from the expat men around me in the city and at work by visiting this forum, and learned what most of them really thought (but not all). *I then realized I was in the middle of something akin to a cold war here in Thailand between many Western women and expat men.

This therefore informed a lot of what I think, which I then spent about 3 years researching extensively. I also have male friends who are in marriages/relationships with Thai women. They are good men, and we have friendships based on mutual respect, and their wives/girlfriends are very nice socially. But I think we can be friends because they are under no illusions, and are very honest people and don't try to sugercoat or deny reality. I even warned one friend about his girlfriend, and he dismissed it, until she was let into his apartment by security with a huge knife and went straight for his heart. He survived by fighting her off, and getting about 100 stitches in an emergency room. I'm worried about a couple of other friends as well, but they know the risks.

So, as far as what I think: It doesn't really matter what I think. I am not one to give these couples hostile looks or anything, and in fact, got really pissed off when I was with a male friend and his wife who were receiving these looks from strangers. It is not my business what he or she decides to do with their lives, as long as they are consenting adults.

However, I do know that the vast majority of these relationships and marriages would never occur if they were both from similar and more equal socioeconomic environments.

I think that given what we know about the majority of statistics and information here, the huge differences in culture, and the mismatched background/educational/economic data, it is safe to say that the amount and ease of these relationships is a statistical anomaly. That being said, I agree with SBK, in that over time the discerning eye can tell the difference. And as a researcher, I can say that the number of "naturally" occuring alliances is much, much smaller than what is actually occuring.

So, that's what I both feel and think. Don't bother flaming me, because I'm not trying to insult you. I am not the one giving you hostile glances on the street. But, I do think.

*edit

Edited July 8, 2006 by kat

[julie_f]

I agree with SBK expats can tell the difference between the sex tourists and other expats. If you are getting looks it will be tourists that will be on the plane home again in a week.

On the other hand being in a western couple, my bloke gets looks and smiles from Thai girls, and then they see me go bright red and start giggling, trying to hide. Its very funny!

[Thai-Aust]

I do know that the vast majority of these relationships and marriages would never occur if they were both from similar and more equal socioeconomic environments.

.... the huge differences in culture, and the mismatched background/educational/economic data, it is safe to say that the amount and ease of these relationships is a statistical anomaly.

This seems to confirm my observation.

I believe most Western men (expecially older guys) in LOS married to Thai women because they enjoy the role of superiority - conciously or otherwise. Maybe this is because of the nature of males that wants to have control over their own families. And this attitude fits perfectly in Thai society where women are/were taught to let their men lead the way. Contrary to Western women who liberlised themselves since the sixties.

I also believe not only Western women would give Western man with Thai woman a scorn look, Thai society as a whole would look on the couple the same way as well.

Edited July 8, 2006 by Thai-Aust

[kat]

... I also believe not only Western women would give Western man with Thai woman a scorn look, Thai society as a whole would look on the couple the same way as well.

I think you make a very good point here. I love your avatar by the way That dog has a lot of character.

[sbk]

... I also believe not only Western women would give Western man with Thai woman a scorn look, Thai society as a whole would look on the couple the same way as well.

I think you make a very good point here. I love your avatar by the way That dog has a lot of character.

I agree to an extent. I know a very well educated Thai woman with a farang husband and she has told me that some Thai people (not all but enough to make it noticeable) make disparaging comments to her in Thai about having a farang husband-- even though she is clearly educated and well-to-do.

I guess it goes along the lines of the Thai girls who made a similar comment to my husband: "Well, I guess Thai girls aren't good enough for him". Perhaps just sour grapes on some people's part.

[thankuverybig]

i also think there are a fair few farung snobs in thailand who like to think that they are better than the natives.

"ohhhhhhh you're with her,reaaaaally".she then talks to the thai girlfreind in a slightly patronising way,& tone.

[kat]

And, let's see: you think these snobs are primarily female? Personally my biggest experience with condescension has come from the male expats here. I'm far too direct for condescension; I'd much rather just avoid the person.

*and to add one other thing: this has many angles. Farangs are not the only snobs here. This is a sensitive topic which can only disintegrate, so I'll leave it at that. I have no interest in a slagging match.

Edited July 8, 2006 by kat

[sbk]

i also think there are a fair few farung snobs in thailand who like to think that they are better than the natives.

"ohhhhhhh you're with her,reaaaaally".she then talks to the thai girlfreind in a slightly patronising way,& tone.

Really? Met lots of farang women living in Thailand?

I think, that perhaps, there could be self-conscious and insecure farang men who assume a patronising tone or dirty looks from farang women when there is no such thing. Just their own insecurities.

And just to make a forewarning: this will not be an anti farang woman flame fest. Is that clear?

[thankuverybig]

quote "really,met lots of farung women living in thailand?"end quote

what is that supposed to mean?why wouldnt i have?in fact i have met many.

[grapetable]

My wife to be, is young and dark and I have noticed the 'looks' mainly from tourists when in Thailand. Its funny though when she is in Sydney with me there appears no more hostility or interest.

And who cares what these usually judgemental people think. I can tell you what the guys are feeling; envy.

[kat]

So then you see, it's about more than what Western women are thinking when they see TF/WM couples on the street. It's also about what the Western man is thinking.

I find it interesting that you project that every Western male will be envious of you; not all are.

*And, why would you even need to think that in the first place?

Edited July 8, 2006 by kat

[Thai-Aust]

I find it interesting that you project that every Western male will be envious of you; not all are.

*And, why would you even need to think that in the first place?

Only one reason, the old guy with much younger woman.

[thohts]

I'm always getting looks from other farangs, but simply ignore them. A few farangs that I've spoken to think my wife is underage due to her small size and young looking face, so I think some of the looks come because of that. When they find out my wife's 21 and that we're married, they seem fine from then on.

Tell me about it! Even a lot of Thai people think my girlfriend is 18-20. (She's 28, just a couple of years younger than myself). I suppose I'd stare at me, too, if someone's girlfriend looked "too young"

[thohts]

Good comments, all. I can always count on this sub-forum for some intelligent discussion.

I believe most Western men (expecially older guys) in LOS married to Thai women because they enjoy the role of superiority - conciously or otherwise. Maybe this is because of the nature of males that wants to have control over their own families. And this attitude fits perfectly in Thai society where women are/were taught to let their men lead the way. Contrary to Western women who liberlised themselves since the sixties.

I'd have to agree somewhat here... although I wouldn't say that's the primary reason. But one of the "benefits". Personally, I prefer a woman who is more independent and can think for herself (and has the *ability* to formulate arguments and other constructive dialogue with me.) Why should someone else be sought for permission to do anything if you are old enough to wipe your own rear end?

I can't fault anyone for taking advantage of culture differences in Thailand when I take advantage of other differences (cost benefits and economics, mostly) for my own gains. The global economy also has a heart, I suppose. Someone's horny, someone's greedy, someone's curious.

Back in the US, some men continuously seek out passive (and 'weak') women to abuse them physically and/or emotionally. I don't really see that much of it here, which is a positive side of that.

One could also argue that some women seek out alpha males who are sure to dominate in society, at work, and at home.

I've had some great experiences with farang women and I am still very much attracted to them (although I've stopped flirting with all women in general). I just happened to fall in love with someone who is much like myself, but isn't from the West.

"as long as they're in love" is the sentiment that best expresses how I feel.