Working Online

[JLCrab]

From above regarding working online: In reality its almost impossible to get caught and proved.

To which I said they would not have to prove anything noted in the 30 days to leave the Kingdom above.

Then the discussion turns to Work Permit violations involving fines, paying bribes, and court cases for which I presume there is substantial proof else the prosecutors wouldn't bother taking it or threatening to take it to court. So maybe I should presume the gent has switched from discussing working on line to other more tangible activities?

[mataleo]

From above regarding working online: In reality its almost impossible to get caught and proved.

To which I said they would not have to prove anything noted in the 30 days to leave the Kingdom above.

Then the discussion turns to Work Permit violations involving fines, paying bribes, and court cases for which I presume there is substantial proof else the prosecutors wouldn't bother taking it or threatening to take it to court. So maybe I should presume the gent has switched from discussing working on line to other more tangible activities?

Hoewer in reality it dosent work like that.

When u get arrested leaving country is not even mentioned. Forst thing what they think is...... moooneyyyy

[anon676545345]

The reason that the Thai authorities don't raid shared-office space, knock down condo doors, and deny more entries to the online folks on repeated tourist visas may be pretty simple: The component that such persons represent to the overall Thai economy is so small that they really don't give a sh*t. Most probably only do enough to get by anyway.

Thai officialdom wants IT and online service companies to invest in Thailand and hire Thai university graduates and, I presume, as long as they do not provide incentives to the lone wolves who do neither, the potential investors really don't care.

As for the repeated tourist visas, regardless of WP status, you sign a declaration on your application that your trip is for pleasure purposes only which, if otherwise, is making a false statement to a Thai official which may be an offense under the Thai Penal code.

JL is there really any point continually discussing this subject if your best conclusion is that the Thai authorities "don't give a shit"? Though their lack of action certainly doesn't imply tacit approval, the fact is there is no official information from which to draw any conclusion. Since we can't really clarify the Thai authorities views on the subject we're just arguing semantics and opinion.

As you say the effect on the Thai economy is pretty much zero and most are quite happily “getting by” and enjoying their stay in Thailand. The sheer scope of niches, skill levels, and fields of work people utilize really makes it difficult to quantify these people as a definitive group as the only link is they use the internet. No one is disputing the wealth of tech talent produced by Thai universities, but no one is competing for work with these guys.

[larsjohnsson]

From above regarding working online: In reality its almost impossible to get caught and proved.

To which I said they would not have to prove anything noted in the 30 days to leave the Kingdom above.

Then the discussion turns to Work Permit violations involving fines, paying bribes, and court cases for which I presume there is substantial proof else the prosecutors wouldn't bother taking it or threatening to take it to court. So maybe I should presume the gent has switched from discussing working on line to other more tangible activities?

Hoewer in reality it dosent work like that.

When u get arrested leaving country is not even mentioned. Forst thing what they think is...... moooneyyyy

So how many times have you got arrested and they only thought about money ??? Edited August 19, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[Soutpeel]

Legal or not i would say if u keep it low u ger away with it...

In reality its almost impossible to get caught and proved..

Your permission of stay could be invalidated for any number of reasons without Immigration or Labor officials having to PROVE anything.

They cant kick u out for no reason at all.

Well they can made up reason..

And i think they cant just do it like u said.

Even if they got u working without wp in worst scenario u got court case...

Are you really that naive ? Immigration only have to suspect your in violation of the T&C's of your visa and or your permission to stay and you will no longer be in thailand ,doesn't need a court or dept of labour officials to prove anything, its not a case can they do it, yes they can, more of a question will they

Over the last 14 years I know of 2 cases first hand where peoples WP's were pulled by the DOL and they were told to leave the country and they would not be issued a WP' every again

[JLCrab]

The reason that the Thai authorities don't raid shared-office space, knock down condo doors, and deny more entries to the online folks on repeated tourist visas may be pretty simple: The component that such persons represent to the overall Thai economy is so small that they really don't give a sh*t. Most probably only do enough to get by anyway.

Thai officialdom wants IT and online service companies to invest in Thailand and hire Thai university graduates and, I presume, as long as they do not provide incentives to the lone wolves who do neither, the potential investors really don't care.

As for the repeated tourist visas, regardless of WP status, you sign a declaration on your application that your trip is for pleasure purposes only which, if otherwise, is making a false statement to a Thai official which may be an offense under the Thai Penal code.

JL is there really any point continually discussing this subject if your best conclusion is that the Thai authorities "don't give a shit"? Though their lack of action certainly doesn't imply tacit approval, the fact is there is no official information from which to draw any conclusion. Since we can't really clarify the Thai authorities views on the subject we're just arguing semantics and opinion.

As you say the effect on the Thai economy is pretty much zero and most are quite happily “getting by” and enjoying their stay in Thailand. The sheer scope of niches, skill levels, and fields of work people utilize really makes it difficult to quantify these people as a definitive group as the only link is they use the internet. No one is disputing the wealth of tech talent produced by Thai universities, but no one is competing for work with these guys.

Is there a point discussing this? Yes. Because guys continually continually come on here and ask, since they believe they make such a significant contribution to Thai economy and culture, why are they not better accommodated by the regulations for immigration and working situation. The answer I gave to which you referenced still stands.

BTW the views of the Thai officialdom regarding the advancement of the IT sector is quite well documented particularly on the BOI website and I make inferences from that.

Edited August 19, 2014 by JLCrab

[ZAKY]

The reason that the Thai authorities don't raid shared-office space, knock down condo doors, and deny more entries to the online folks on repeated tourist visas may be pretty simple: The component that such persons represent to the overall Thai economy is so small that they really don't give a sh*t. Most probably only do enough to get by anyway.

Thai officialdom wants IT and online service companies to invest in Thailand and hire Thai university graduates and, I presume, as long as they do not provide incentives to the lone wolves who do neither, the potential investors really don't care.

As for the repeated tourist visas, regardless of WP status, you sign a declaration on your application that your trip is for pleasure purposes only which, if otherwise, is making a false statement to a Thai official which may be an offense under the Thai Penal code.

JL is there really any point continually discussing this subject if your best conclusion is that the Thai authorities "don't give a shit"? Though their lack of action certainly doesn't imply tacit approval, the fact is there is no official information from which to draw any conclusion. Since we can't really clarify the Thai authorities views on the subject we're just arguing semantics and opinion.

As you say the effect on the Thai economy is pretty much zero and most are quite happily “getting by” and enjoying their stay in Thailand. The sheer scope of niches, skill levels, and fields of work people utilize really makes it difficult to quantify these people as a definitive group as the only link is they use the internet. No one is disputing the wealth of tech talent produced by Thai universities, but no one is competing for work with these guys.

Is there a point discussing this? Yes. Because guys continually continually come on here and ask, since they believe they make such a significant contribution to Thai economy and culture, why are they not better accommodated by the regulations for immigration and working situation. The answer I gave to which you referenced still stands.

BTW the views of the Thai officialdom regarding the advancement of the IT sector is quite well documented particularly on the BOI website and I make inferences from that.

All these problem could have been solved and foreigners would have feel more confident and to work honestly and legally contribute to pay taxes here if they revise and update their policy regarding WP.

Who would be encouraged that for obtaining a WP to do online buisiness you have to go through the whole process of having to invest THB 2m at the same time owning 49% of a buisiness where you are the master, hire a office, pay trade licences and also employ thai at least 3 thais, where as this type of buisiness can be easily done while standing on the pavement with your ipad or sitting in a coffee shop.

[mataleo]

From above regarding working online: In reality its almost impossible to get caught and proved.

To which I said they would not have to prove anything noted in the 30 days to leave the Kingdom above.

Then the discussion turns to Work Permit violations involving fines, paying bribes, and court cases for which I presume there is substantial proof else the prosecutors wouldn't bother taking it or threatening to take it to court. So maybe I should presume the gent has switched from discussing working on line to other more tangible activities?

Hoewer in reality it dosent work like that.

When u get arrested leaving country is not even mentioned. Forst thing what they think is...... moooneyyyy

So how many times have you got arrested and they only thought about money ???

None. But i know russians who did.

[JLCrab]

The person working on his own at Starbucks is helping himself; he is not adding to the the stated Thai objective of enhancing the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world. Some people seem to think their presence in Thailand as suggested above only has an upside and no downside.

[JLCrab]

From above regarding working online: In reality its almost impossible to get caught and proved.

To which I said they would not have to prove anything noted in the 30 days to leave the Kingdom above.

Then the discussion turns to Work Permit violations involving fines, paying bribes, and court cases for which I presume there is substantial proof else the prosecutors wouldn't bother taking it or threatening to take it to court. So maybe I should presume the gent has switched from discussing working on line to other more tangible activities?

Hoewer in reality it dosent work like that.

When u get arrested leaving country is not even mentioned. Forst thing what they think is...... moooneyyyy

So how many times have you got arrested and they only thought about money ???

None. But i know russians who did.

Russians who were working online?

[anon676545345]

The reason that the Thai authorities don't raid shared-office space, knock down condo doors, and deny more entries to the online folks on repeated tourist visas may be pretty simple: The component that such persons represent to the overall Thai economy is so small that they really don't give a sh*t. Most probably only do enough to get by anyway.

Thai officialdom wants IT and online service companies to invest in Thailand and hire Thai university graduates and, I presume, as long as they do not provide incentives to the lone wolves who do neither, the potential investors really don't care.

As for the repeated tourist visas, regardless of WP status, you sign a declaration on your application that your trip is for pleasure purposes only which, if otherwise, is making a false statement to a Thai official which may be an offense under the Thai Penal code.

JL is there really any point continually discussing this subject if your best conclusion is that the Thai authorities "don't give a shit"? Though their lack of action certainly doesn't imply tacit approval, the fact is there is no official information from which to draw any conclusion. Since we can't really clarify the Thai authorities views on the subject we're just arguing semantics and opinion.

As you say the effect on the Thai economy is pretty much zero and most are quite happily “getting by” and enjoying their stay in Thailand. The sheer scope of niches, skill levels, and fields of work people utilize really makes it difficult to quantify these people as a definitive group as the only link is they use the internet. No one is disputing the wealth of tech talent produced by Thai universities, but no one is competing for work with these guys.

Is there a point discussing this? Yes. Because guys continually continually come on here and ask, since they believe they make such a significant contribution to Thai economy and culture, why are they not better accommodated by the regulations for immigration and working situation. The answer I gave to which you referenced still stands.

BTW the views of the Thai officialdom regarding the advancement of the IT sector is quite well documented particularly on the BOI website and I make inferences from that.

Because of the name ThaiVisa people assume this forum to be a source of information so obviously new people will sign up and ask for opinions on the same subjects, your under no obligation to read those threads if they cause you such umbrance. The fact is though that the same guys jump on these threads and hostilely espoused their opinion and it in veritably turns pointlessly argumentative and negates any possibility for intelligent discussion. I didn't see anything wrong with the OP's initial post yet look how quickly this devolved.

[JLCrab]

I never thought your posts were hostile.

[hugolars]

Guys, I don't buy that "working remotely" equals "working in Thailand" for several reasons.

In my opinion, unless some Thai minister say otherwise, is that "working in Thailand" is exactly what it say it is.

Selling services in Thailand, then you need a company.

or

conducting services in Thailand. For this you need being employed.

Both things involves making income from the Thai economy and it makes complete sense that tax must be payed and WP is needed.

BUT, if i happen to be in Thailand and conduct some kind of service to someone outside Thailand and tax for that service according law in that country then Thailand has absolutely nothing do do with it since I'm not a Thai citizen.

Anything can be considered work. If I'm here on holiday and read a book that is related to my profession then that is actually "work".

It just does not make any sense for many reasons.

I have read many threads on this issue and I'm absolutely not convinced that Thai law is broken by working remotely.

This need to be debated further and questions have to asked the right way to Thai officials.

It needs to be highlighted that remote workers are great for Thai economy since money from abroad is pumped pumped into the system.

BR.

Hugo

[balo]

Is it so hard to understand really ?

99% of us working online a few hours or more weekly , we sit at home and nobody cares . We all have valid visas , maybe retirement , maybe ED , maybe tourist visas, and we're all working , or maybe its just a hobby . The money you earn will stay in your paypal or skriill or your bank account in your home country , where you probably will pay some taxes .

This is the reality , and yes, we are all breaking the Thai law. But at the same time we are all spending our money in Thailand which is good for the Thai economy.

If there's no more visas for us guys under 50 years, then move to Cambodia or somewhere else where you will feel welcome.

Edited August 19, 2014 by balo

[Franky Bear]

You could say answering emails from your work is "working online from home"?

It's a big grey area

[Delphis]

The person working on his own at Starbucks is helping himself; he is not adding to the the stated Thai objective of enhancing the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world. Some people seem to think their presence in Thailand as suggested above only has an upside and no downside.

The person working on her own at Starbucks IS contributing to the Thai economy by bringing money into the country. A number of times on the thread I have asked people how the economic impact to Thailand differs for someone drawing on a trust fund offshore, and someone drawing on funds from a foreign business selling coconuts, and no one could answer...for good reason.

Really the only negative impact from such a person would be if their PHYSICAL presence in Thailand deprived a Thai of some service, for example a bed for the night, etc. But, since the expat is also bringing money into Thailand, that claim in the real world doesn't really make sense.

[balo]

You could say answering emails from your work is "working online from home"?

It's a big grey area

Yes, then you are breaking the law.

If I'm talking to a potential customer on Skype, I am breaking the law. You can find hundreds of ways to break the Thai law in the online world we're living in .

[Delphis]

I do however agree with those who imply that it's a moot point whether this should be brought more to the attention of Thai officialdom, or not. If we were always dealing with reasonable officials (in whatever country) then the answer would probably be yes. But officialdom is not always reasonable and there's also the possibility they might just get more annoyed about it, simply for the fact of people doing things they technically aren't allowed to, no matter how much non-damage it's actually doing. So yes, I can see that argument.

[Franky Bear]

You could say answering emails from your work is "working online from home"?

It's a big grey area

Yes, then you are breaking the law.

If I'm talking to a potential customer on Skype, I am breaking the law. You can find hundreds of ways to break the Thai law in the online world we're living in .

A bit weird haha. I sent in my expenses form today for my travel this last 24 hours and it should be paid to my UK account tomorrow. Part of those expanses were my taxi from swampy to Pattaya.

It's a big grey area actually

[anon676545345]

The person working on his own at Starbucks is helping himself; he is not adding to the the stated Thai objective of enhancing the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world. Some people seem to think their presence in Thailand as suggested above only has an upside and no downside.

The person working on her own at Starbucks IS contributing to the Thai economy by bringing money into the country. A number of times on the thread I have asked people how the economic impact to Thailand differs for someone drawing on a trust fund offshore, and someone drawing on funds from a foreign business selling coconuts, and no one could answer...for good reason.

Really the only negative impact from such a person would be if their PHYSICAL presence in Thailand deprived a Thai of some service, for example a bed for the night, etc. But, since the expat is also bringing money into Thailand, that claim in the real world doesn't really make sense.

Wouldn't waste your time JL doesn't like people working online, he's got very little comprehension of the work people engage in but he's not the kind of guy to let that get in the way. He states he finds it annoying that these threads keep getting repeated yet still spends all day posting on them, that previous statement really sums it up. Of course the person working in starbucks (starbucks seriously who the hell would work out of starbucks) is doing to help themselves few people work for purely altruistic purposes, and of course the person writing an e-book, or whatever other activity isn't aiding the Thai government’s policy of enhancing in IT/online services because that in all likelihood has absolutely no relevance to the work he's engaging in.

[AYJAYDEE]

The person working on his own at Starbucks is helping himself; he is not adding to the the stated Thai objective of enhancing the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world. Some people seem to think their presence in Thailand as suggested above only has an upside and no downside.

The person working on her own at Starbucks IS contributing to the Thai economy by bringing money into the country. A number of times on the thread I have asked people how the economic impact to Thailand differs for someone drawing on a trust fund offshore, and someone drawing on funds from a foreign business selling coconuts, and no one could answer...for good reason.

Really the only negative impact from such a person would be if their PHYSICAL presence in Thailand deprived a Thai of some service, for example a bed for the night, etc. But, since the expat is also bringing money into Thailand, that claim in the real world doesn't really make sense.

as he said: " he is not adding to the the stated Thai objective of enhancing the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world"

[nicolas18]

as he said: " he is not adding to the the stated Thai objective of enhancing the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world"

You know, just repeating something like a parrot simply because it sounds smart doesn't mean it actually is.

If an e-book writer, for example, decided to stop writing e-books while he's in Thailand, there is no Thai company out there that would somewhat magically decide to write them instead. The same goes for software and web development, as long as one sells his products to foreign companies.

[AYJAYDEE]

as he said: " he is not adding to the the stated Thai objective of enhancing the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world"

You know, just repeating something like a parrot simply because it sounds smart doesn't mean it actually is.

If an e-book writer, for example, decided to stop writing e-books while he's in Thailand, there is no Thai company out there that would somewhat magically decide to write them instead. The same goes for software and web development, as long as one sells his products to foreign companies.

its the stated objective by the thai authorities. you'll have to take it up with them

[nicolas18]

its the stated objective by the thai authorities. you'll have to take it up with them

OK, sure. In the meantime, could you please show us all the official document that specifically states that Thailand does not want people working online because it wants to enhance the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world?

Edited August 19, 2014 by nicolas18

[AYJAYDEE]

its the stated objective by the thai authorities. you'll have to take it up with them

OK, sure. In the meantime, could you please show us all the official document that specifically states that Thailand does not want people working online because it wants to enhance the Kingdom's capabilities in the IT / online services world?

thats not the case at all. they dont want people working on line without a work permit

[nicolas18]

thats not the case at all. they dont want people working on line without a work permit

Ok, so we both agree that it has nothing to do with your "stated objective."

[nicolas18]

Double post.

Edited August 19, 2014 by nicolas18

[AYJAYDEE]

thats not the case at all. they dont want people working on line without a work permit

Ok, so we both agree that it has nothing to do with your "stated objective."

no, i dont agree at all. with a work permit you have 4 employees who will benefit from your expertise

[AYJAYDEE]

thats not the case at all. they dont want people working on line without a work permit

Ok, so we both agree that it has nothing to do with your "stated objective."

no, i dont agree at all. with a work permit you have 4 employees who will benefit from your expertise

[AYJAYDEE]

thats not the case at all. they dont want people working on line without a work permit

Ok, so we both agree that it has nothing to do with your "stated objective."

no, i dont agree at all. with a work permit you have 4 employees who will benefit from your expertise