Editorial: Don't be fooled by 'Thai-style democracy'

[djjamie]

The rights of the individual must be respected in every society, whether in Asia or the West.

Democracy is but a tool. An entire nation cannot be supported by this one tool, no more than an entire car can be built using only a screwdriver. The true test of a government in the West or the East is not whether it uses democracy or not, but with what other tools it employs as well. Thailand must seek to build upon democracies, but until the expediencies are replaced with sustainable and pragmatic solutions it will not be possible.

It seems on TVF the habit of perceiving democracy or any other socioeconomic system as a unifying ideology is ridiculous. The ruling elite, whichever side they stand on (and yes they stand on the red side as much as the other side), do not see such systems as unifying ideologies, but merely tools. It is time for the Thai's to look at how these tools are used, and whose hands they are actually in, instead of fixating on the tool itself as being inherently "good" or "bad."

As can be seen over the past 12 months. Democracy was in the wrong hands thus had a negative, destabilizing effect on the country that brought out terrorist elements into the streets of Bangkok. This cannot be argued. It is irrefutable that through the amnesty bill that was voted in at 307 - 0 against the wishes of the majority (for the wishes of one man that made it compulsory to vote) shows that democracy in the wrong hands can be evil or more akin to a dictatorship. The individuals rights to renege the amnesty should have been voiced through their elected representative. The rights of the individual must be respected in every society, whether in Asia or the West. Were they respected? Deputy PM Plodprasop stated that Phuket will get a conference centre when they vote PTP! The rights of the individual must be respected in every society, whether in Asia or the West. Were they respected? The same man told the environmentalists they were garbage and if they protested or voiced their opinion at the water hearing the RCM51 terrorist wing of the PTP would "sort them out" The rights of the individual must be respected in every society, whether in Asia or the West. Were they respected?

Under the Junta, essentially a dictatorship, we have had a return to stability ergo a return of healthy economic indicators. This cannot be argued. It is irrefutable through the strength of the Thai baht, the SET, Thai consumer confidence index, Coincident and Leading Economic Indices, Private Consumption Index, Private Investment Index, Manufacturing Production Index, Capacity Utilization, Housing Price Index and Business Sentiment Index. The rights of the individual must be respected in every society, whether in Asia or the West. The individual deserved stability right? The individual deserves a strong economy right? We have a Junta that is putting a referendum to the people to vote on the constitution. I bet that vote is not 307 - 0!!! The rights of the individual must be respected in every society, whether in Asia or the West. They are being respected here. This Junta has more of a resemblance to a democracy than the previous "democracy" did.

This reinforces my argument that the tool in the right hands is what must be focused on. Not the the tool itself.

One from the West would be silly to suggest they would prefer a dictatorship over a democracy, but when one looks at Thailand and sees who is wielding the tool of the "democracy" and who is wielding the tool of "dictatorship" I would choose a dictatorship any day of the week. Not for me, but for my children who will be able to walk down the road without fear of terrorist attacks or a failed economy.

[ginjag]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

So you vote them out ...

and in again--lose the country Billions--good answer----so if that fails same thing--vote them out-----until the voters latch on to the real problems ??? that is stupid here, It needs the mega shake up, try at least to get suitable people to vote for. Here lies the problem. Democracy Thai style is a complete failure.

Is there another good system apart from military-dictatorships-so call democracy ???? if so lets have some of that.

[djjamie]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

Probably more correct than you think......they've been living in this manner for so long....

Most Thais are not educated enough to figure out what actually happens around them.The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education,but this won't happen in near future

The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education

It seems the elite, royalists, army have not only increased the education budget by 3.2%, it also has the largest allocation of 19.5% of the overall budget and coupled with the educational reform this will be a long overdue and welcome package for an ailing sector that was essentially ignored by the PTP. Yes, yes they had tablets!!

The education the PTP concentrated on was the UDD red schools that were springing up around the North that were inadvertently dividing the country even further (reconciliation anyone?). They were essentially indoctrination schools to teach red ideology and ensure a brainwashed population voted for a certain group to further the leaders interests.

Education is the key to democracy. Look at protestors throughout the world that fight for democracy. They are not rice farmers. Rice farmers protest for self interest. They don't give a hoot about democracy. They are not rural teachers. Rural teachers protest for self interest. They are university students. Students come from the forefront of educational institutions and truly understand the negative ramifications of regimes and what they can lead to. Through out history there are many examples of students driving change for the better. None of the university students protested in Thailand over the last 12 months because they feared they may loose a populist scheme. They were here because they feared they had lost democracy. What a refreshing protest that is.

Education is the key to democracy and mark my words sonny Jim, the PTP detest education. They prefer "reducation"

Give them a tablet and say "See , we are serious about education" is akin to giving a blind man glasses and saying "See, we are serious about helping the blind"

Edited August 19, 2014 by djjamie

[fvw53]

When British PM Cameron asked the UK parliament to vote a permission for joining the USA to intervene in Syria ...he did not get a majority...people from his own party voted against it.

In many countries of the developing world making a vote which does not reflect the wish of the party leader - who probably financed your election - would be seen as betrayal and the end of your political career.

In the same developing world - including some SEA countries - "politics" seem to imply that "the winner takes it all" which explains that the same parties are in power for many years, even since independence.

The slogan "Respect my vote" should indeed be shown in Thailand but not only to demonstrating people but also directed to all the elected members of parliament.

Let us remember that in the Philippines the Marcos dynasty won all the presidential and parliamentary elections in which they participated ...but they emptied the country so much that it has still not fully recovered.

Argentina is still bankrupt because of populist policies initiated by the Peronists a generation ago : they too won all the presidential and parliamentary elections in which they participated.

[klauskunkel]

Don't be fooled by 'Thai-style democracy'

Let's rather say: Don't be fooled by anything that can be corrupted by humans, whether forms of government or religions. If it is thought up by humans it will be subverted by humans until such time that humanity evolves built-in ethics..., and that's a long way away.

[Eric Loh]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

Probably more correct than you think......they've been living in this manner for so long....

Most Thais are not educated enough to figure out what actually happens around them.The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education,but this won't happen in near future

The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education

It seems the elite, royalists, army have not only increased the education budget by 3.2%, it also has the largest allocation of 19.5% of the overall budget and coupled with the educational reform this will be a long overdue and welcome package for an ailing sector that was essentially ignored by the PTP. Yes, yes they had tablets!!

The education the PTP concentrated on was the UDD red schools that were springing up around the North that were inadvertently dividing the country even further (reconciliation anyone?). They were essentially indoctrination schools to teach red ideology and ensure a brainwashed population voted for a certain group to further the leaders interests.

Education is the key to democracy. Look at protestors throughout the world that fight for democracy. They are not rice farmers. Rice farmers protest for self interest. They don't give a hoot about democracy. They are not rural teachers. Rural teachers protest for self interest. They are university students. Students come from the forefront of educational institutions and truly understand the negative ramifications of regimes and what they can lead to. Through out history there are many examples of students driving change for the better. None of the university students protested in Thailand over the last 12 months because they feared they may loose a populist scheme. They were here because they feared they had lost democracy. What a refreshing protest that is.

Education is the key to democracy and mark my words sonny Jim, the PTP detest education. They prefer "reducation"

Give them a tablet and say "See , we are serious about education" is akin to giving a blind man glasses and saying "See, we are serious about helping the blind"

I see you getting all excited by the education budget. Allocation for education has always been the largest component of the allocation after General Adminstration. Always in the double digit and have been consistent even during Dem and PR government. Always the same mantra that our education is so bad and urgently need reform. No reason why this latest large allocation will made any difference especially so when the military is no educationist.

[billd766]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

The problem in Thailand is the people who got elected get always kicked out by army,royalists and mafia elite

Nothing to do with breaking the laws of the land or ignoring court judgements against them then?

[ddavidovsky]

Many people on this forum still don't get it.

Proper, transparent democracy is necessary, not because it produces the best possible government (who on earth expects perfect governance? human nature will always put a spoke in that) but because it provides the only workable form of accountability.

It's the lack of accountability and transparency that has spawned all the corruption. And there can never be accountability and transparency without free speech. And there can't be free speech without proper democracy. The country is going backwards.

[Thai at Heart]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

Probably more correct than you think......they've been living in this manner for so long....

Well they can't fight it, criticise and have been shot by it over the decades, so what would u do.

Animals used to look happy in zoos too.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[BudRight]

True democracy starts with respecting the ordinary people votes, and trust each other's votes, more importantly people trust and respecting the ruling parties and opposition parties equally. For example in the US the vote difference is only 2-3% between ruling and opposition parties. If a party lost in this election does not mean that they don't have power, they have voice and voting power in the senante and in congress. That comes from right education and learning about democracy and politcal awareness. There is a role for everyone in this, like judiciary, press freedom, parliment and election commission. If one of them does not function correctly, the mistrust will grow in society and we will undermind the votes, and people don't come forward to vote, then all sort of problem starts. If i start pointing out the such good democratic countries, there will be lot of racial hatered comments may come here, i just keep my mouth shut for now.

If you had even the slightest inkling what a true democracy is you would not be fooled into thinking what you have in the west are democracies, you are as indoctrinated as any thai. However they are much better than what thailand has, but coup or no coup that style of governance is not even remotely a realistic option for the forseeable future.

Please enlighten us Zarathustra.

[tbthailand]

True democracy starts with respecting the ordinary people votes, and trust each other's votes, more importantly people trust and respecting the ruling parties and opposition parties equally. For example in the US the vote difference is only 2-3% between ruling and opposition parties. If a party lost in this election does not mean that they don't have power, they have voice and voting power in the senante and in congress. That comes from right education and learning about democracy and politcal awareness. There is a role for everyone in this, like judiciary, press freedom, parliment and election commission. If one of them does not function correctly, the mistrust will grow in society and we will undermind the votes, and people don't come forward to vote, then all sort of problem starts. If i start pointing out the such good democratic countries, there will be lot of racial hatered comments may come here, i just keep my mouth shut for now.

If you had even the slightest inkling what a true democracy is you would not be fooled into thinking what you have in the west are democracies, you are as indoctrinated as any thai. However they are much better than what thailand has, but coup or no coup that style of governance is not even remotely a realistic option for the forseeable future.

the 'true democracy doesn't exist" line is garbage.

I'm not indoctrinated, I'm informed.

Which makes it easy to recognize garbage.

[tbthailand]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

So you vote them out ...

How do you do that with either vote buying and/or all the media under control and/or all the available parties offer the same?

You are too focused on Thailand: For example: how would you vote them out in USA? The last 150 years there were the same 2 parties in power. Either the people were complete happy the last 150 years or they just had no way to vote them out.

Or why didn't the people of East Germany vote Honecker out?

how much do you really understand about the united states? I think it is amazingly little.

[brucec64]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

Probably more correct than you think......they've been living in this manner for so long....

Most Thais are not educated enough to figure out what actually happens around them.The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education,but this won't happen in near future

The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education

It seems the elite, royalists, army have not only increased the education budget by 3.2%, it also has the largest allocation of 19.5% of the overall budget and coupled with the educational reform this will be a long overdue and welcome package for an ailing sector that was essentially ignored by the PTP. Yes, yes they had tablets!!

The education the PTP concentrated on was the UDD red schools that were springing up around the North that were inadvertently dividing the country even further (reconciliation anyone?). They were essentially indoctrination schools to teach red ideology and ensure a brainwashed population voted for a certain group to further the leaders interests.

Education is the key to democracy. Look at protestors throughout the world that fight for democracy. They are not rice farmers. Rice farmers protest for self interest. They don't give a hoot about democracy. They are not rural teachers. Rural teachers protest for self interest. They are university students. Students come from the forefront of educational institutions and truly understand the negative ramifications of regimes and what they can lead to. Through out history there are many examples of students driving change for the better. None of the university students protested in Thailand over the last 12 months because they feared they may loose a populist scheme. They were here because they feared they had lost democracy. What a refreshing protest that is.

Education is the key to democracy and mark my words sonny Jim, the PTP detest education. They prefer "reducation"

Give them a tablet and say "See , we are serious about education" is akin to giving a blind man glasses and saying "See, we are serious about helping the blind"

Should also be noted that while the education budget was increased by 3.2%, the defence budget was increased by 5%.

The reason given: "If we don't increase the budget and purchase new weapons, then nobody will fear us,". Was this comment referring to other countries, or the Thai people themselves????

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/18/us-thailand-budget-idUSKBN0GI0MG20140818

[JAG]

The problem is not democracy, the problem is that the law is not regularly applied; so people with good connections do as they please. What difference does it make about how the people get into office, when there are so many above the law. And those in political office use it only to manipulate the system for their own financial gains. You can't have democracy under these conditions no matter how perfect the election. Democracy requires an unbiased judiciary, a free press, and adherence to the rule of law. All MIA here.

They say democracy needs time to get established here. What other country stuffed it up for 80 years straight? they have had generations to figure out democracy, and it is not that difficult to understand. Children can understand the concept. No the problem is not that they do not understand it. The problem is that this is actually a feudal system masquerading as a democracy, to satisfy western ideology. There is no will to be ruled by the people, and the people have been trained to keep their place.

It would be much better if they just accepted that and made the most of their strengths.

I agree with much of what you say. I think that the bonds of that feudal system are being weakened, in some areas almost dissolved. This is due to some ( limited ) extent to better education, (although it remains dire ) but also due to increased awareness of political matters through access to social media and the internet.

I don't think that this process of dissolving these feudal bonds can be reversed ( although that is what the junta seized power to try to ensure happens).

Ironic perhaps isn't it that all those factories making cheap copy smart phones in The Peoples Republic of China are ultimately paving the long road to a democratic Thailand!

[JAG]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

Well certainly the ones in uniform, who have the guns, seem to.

[timmyp]

Wow, that article was almost insightful.

With the title, I thought it might be something to give us something to think about, but then I realized it was printed in the Nation.

[dominique355]

The real problem is that western societies think they have a democracy !

I would not be aware of ANY western country that has a democracy !!!!

In how many Western Countries have you actually lived and experienced democracy?

Form you answer I would guess ... none.

[tbthailand]

Most Thais are not educated enough to figure out what actually happens around them.The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education,but this won't happen in near future

The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education

It seems the elite, royalists, army have not only increased the education budget by 3.2%, it also has the largest allocation of 19.5% of the overall budget and coupled with the educational reform this will be a long overdue and welcome package for an ailing sector that was essentially ignored by the PTP. Yes, yes they had tablets!!

The education the PTP concentrated on was the UDD red schools that were springing up around the North that were inadvertently dividing the country even further (reconciliation anyone?). They were essentially indoctrination schools to teach red ideology and ensure a brainwashed population voted for a certain group to further the leaders interests.

Education is the key to democracy. Look at protestors throughout the world that fight for democracy. They are not rice farmers. Rice farmers protest for self interest. They don't give a hoot about democracy. They are not rural teachers. Rural teachers protest for self interest. They are university students. Students come from the forefront of educational institutions and truly understand the negative ramifications of regimes and what they can lead to. Through out history there are many examples of students driving change for the better. None of the university students protested in Thailand over the last 12 months because they feared they may loose a populist scheme. They were here because they feared they had lost democracy. What a refreshing protest that is.

Education is the key to democracy and mark my words sonny Jim, the PTP detest education. They prefer "reducation"

Give them a tablet and say "See , we are serious about education" is akin to giving a blind man glasses and saying "See, we are serious about helping the blind"

Should also be noted that while the education budget was increased by 3.2%, the defence budget was increased by 5%.

The reason given: "If we don't increase the budget and purchase new weapons, then nobody will fear us,". Was this comment referring to other countries, or the Thai people themselves????

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/18/us-thailand-budget-idUSKBN0GI0MG20140818

that is a rather amazing quote - I really thought you were joking.

[brucec64]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

Probably more correct than you think......they've been living in this manner for so long....

Most Thais are not educated enough to figure out what actually happens around them.The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education,but this won't happen in near future

The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education

It seems the elite, royalists, army have not only increased the education budget by 3.2%, it also has the largest allocation of 19.5% of the overall budget and coupled with the educational reform this will be a long overdue and welcome package for an ailing sector that was essentially ignored by the PTP. Yes, yes they had tablets!!

The education the PTP concentrated on was the UDD red schools that were springing up around the North that were inadvertently dividing the country even further (reconciliation anyone?). They were essentially indoctrination schools to teach red ideology and ensure a brainwashed population voted for a certain group to further the leaders interests.

Education is the key to democracy. Look at protestors throughout the world that fight for democracy. They are not rice farmers. Rice farmers protest for self interest. They don't give a hoot about democracy. They are not rural teachers. Rural teachers protest for self interest. They are university students. Students come from the forefront of educational institutions and truly understand the negative ramifications of regimes and what they can lead to. Through out history there are many examples of students driving change for the better. None of the university students protested in Thailand over the last 12 months because they feared they may loose a populist scheme. They were here because they feared they had lost democracy. What a refreshing protest that is.

Education is the key to democracy and mark my words sonny Jim, the PTP detest education. They prefer "reducation"

Give them a tablet and say "See , we are serious about education" is akin to giving a blind man glasses and saying "See, we are serious about helping the blind"

According to the junta's reform plan, this 3.2% will help to push through the following "values":

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4215

1. Love for the nation, religions and monarchy

2. Honesty, patience and good intention for the public

3. Gratitude to parents, guardians and teachers

4. Perseverance in learning

5. Conservation of Thai culture

6. Morality and sharing with others

7. Correctly understanding democracy with the monarchy as head of the state

8. Discipline and respect for the law and elders

9. Awareness in thinking and doing things, and following the guidance of His Majesty the King

10. Living by the sufficiency economy philosophy guided by His Majesty the King

11. Physical and mental strength against greed

12. Concern about the public and national good more than self-interest.

All very admirable, but seems to fall into a "re-education" category. To quote your post: "Education is the key to democracy and mark my words sonny Jim, the PTP detest education. They prefer "reducation"" I don't see much difference here and not sure how this reform will help Thailand to teach critical thinking and remain competitive in the Asean community.

Another interesting reform plan: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Audience-cheers-Prayuth-speech-on-reforms-30240643.html

He said students were made to work too hard, with many having tutorial classes on top of their normal classes.

"Children nowadays don't know how to do housework," he said. "Parents see them overwhelmed with homework until 10pm, so they don't want to tell their kids to do it [housework].

So, reform consists of reducing student workload so that they can focus on housework????!!!!!

[wwest5829]

Modern democracy is just a step away from fascism in reality ...the US is a perfect example

Much as I would like to....I cannot argue with your statement. It saddens me greatly.

[khunken]

Although the article raises some good points, especially those about the collective good versus the individual good, there are many facets about western democracy that Thailand would do well to avoid. Laisse faire capitalism, lobby groups controlling the elected politicians, electoral systems giving power to a 35% 'majority', 'security' agencies with their big brother control agenda, an almost impossible ability to remove an elected government turning dictatorial before the end of its term and so on.

The lack of the rule of law here just doesn't permit democracy to function when 'elected' autocrats consider themselves to be above it. A real system of checks and balances is needed both within parliament and between the parliament and senate. Vote buying and the local 'influential person's' control over the residents of their area has to be addressed and suppressed.

Education is a mostly separate issue which holds the country back skill-wise and safety-wise.

Edited August 19, 2014 by khunken

[belg]

democracy is not for 3rd world banana republics

[IamNoone88]

The Swiss have done it the right way - Important matters of national interest go to a referendum. The people decide. And that is coming from a British citizen. The government here has a hindrance more than a help for years.

[ggt]

Over time the trend in the West has been toward democracy and respect for the rights of the individual, while we in the East seemed to have ended up with greater authoritarianism.

You friend...or both ignorant and blind...the West...especially the US...is more of a police state than a democracy...the police exits to serve the whims of the government...the government which makes laws to enslave its people and exempt themselves from the laws they create...

You need to read more independent journalism...the truth will set you free...

[DoctorB]

Excellent article from The Nation.

I particularly liked the comment, "Historically, the elite and the military have jealously guarded the notion that they are superior to the common people. They have insisted that democracy merely delivers bad politicians to parliament, but they never realised that people often consider them politicians too, and little better than their elected counterparts."

Perhaps "no better" should be substituted for "little better".

Well said, that man!

Edited August 19, 2014 by DoctorB

[CantSpell]

True democracy starts with respecting the ordinary people votes, and trust each other's votes, more importantly people trust and respecting the ruling parties and opposition parties equally.

I think it doesn't start this way: that is the expected end result in fact.

Democracy should be more regarded as eqalitarianism: a form of government that tends to decrease the differences and make people egal (tends or try).

Equal in front of the law (police): no by-passing

Equal in front of the education: access to basically same program and proper education

Equal in front of justice (Tribunals)

and so on....

From there a country can start respect people votes, trust each others and work for the better...

Until they actually "cut the head" of the "poo-yai", democracy is just a word here.....

[Benmart]

Modern democracy is just a step away from fascism in reality ...the US is a perfect example

So true my friend. Having served in the US Army for over twenty years and other uniforms, I saddened at the direction our country has taken.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

Thomas Jefferson

Edited August 19, 2014 by Benmart

[Krataiboy]

Winston Churchill got it right: "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried". There is no such thing as benevolent dictatorship, because no dictator is going to stay benevolent for ever in all circumstances.

[MaxLee]

Don't be fooled by 'Thai-style democracy

Yep,... it's nothing more than just copy without thinking "style of Election-Collection-equals-democracy"

[catweazle]

Democracy died along with JFK long time ago... worldwide! Anyone who believes that the "privilege" of being able to choose between cancer and black death every four years means that he's living in a democracy is a blind and deaf fool !

Thailand of today is as far away from democracy as a sand grain in the desert to Antarctica and a thousand news editorials won't change that !