leighd7 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 From Chiang Mai news this should help people here In Cm Understand all about the current visa situation.... http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm going to move this to the Chiang Mai forum where it will be well received regarding the news of a new building in the near future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Here are a couple of the items from that link above: http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366 Is something being done to the crowded Chiang Mai Immigration Office? What about the online service? Funding has been confirmed and a new, larger office is scheduled for construction next year. More immigration staff will be employed when it opens. Immigration staff work long hours and are currently struggling with the workload as the number of foreigners resident in the region has increased in recent years. Officers urged people to be patient until the new office opens. Online booking is a limited option, and operates on a first-come-first-served basis. This is to avoid clashes in appointment times with walk-in users. There are no plans to extend it at this time. Ninety day reports The Immigration Office apologises that an online service for 90-day reporting is not yet available. It currently operates a new system which no longer involves barcode scanning, and has tried to transfer biometrical information from its old server to the new one in order to establish an online reporting service. However, due to technical difficulties which it is now trying to solve, online reporting is not yet available. Foreign residents may submit their 90-day reports in three ways: - In person at the Immigration Office (with a leeway of 15 days before the due date and seven days after) - By post (at least 20 days before the due date) - By someone given legal powers of attorney. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Doesn't this contradict current information?"There is no limit to the number of tourist visas you can apply for, nor is there a minimum time limit between each one. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Doesn't this contradict current information? "There is no limit to the number of tourist visas you can apply for, nor is there a minimum time limit between each one. " Not from what I understand from the Visa forum. It is the Visa exempt or VOA that they do not allow back to back for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sfokevin Posted August 21, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2014 Where will the new Chiang Mai Immigration Office be located? Planning has not been confirmed but we hope to locate it conveniently on one of the sky train stops... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Their is one glaring error in the article. The Col said that visa exempt entries can only extended for 7 days. He failed to mention that they can be extended for 30 days starting the 29th of this month. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Their is one glaring error in the article. The Col said that visa exempt entries can only extended for 7 days. He failed to mention that they can be extended for 30 days starting the 29th of this month. Several days ago I saw a sign up inside the CM immigration office pointing out the 30 day extension for visa exempts so seems they are ahead of the game already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernjohn Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Here are a couple of the items from that link above: http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366 Is something being done to the crowded Chiang Mai Immigration Office? What about the online service? Funding has been confirmed and a new, larger office is scheduled for construction next year. More immigration staff will be employed when it opens. Immigration staff work long hours and are currently struggling with the workload as the number of foreigners resident in the region has increased in recent years. Officers urged people to be patient until the new office opens. Online booking is a limited option, and operates on a first-come-first-served basis. This is to avoid clashes in appointment times with walk-in users. There are no plans to extend it at this time. Ninety day reports The Immigration Office apologises that an online service for 90-day reporting is not yet available. It currently operates a new system which no longer involves barcode scanning, and has tried to transfer biometrical information from its old server to the new one in order to establish an online reporting service. However, due to technical difficulties which it is now trying to solve, online reporting is not yet available. Foreign residents may submit their 90-day reports in three ways: - In person at the Immigration Office (with a leeway of 15 days before the due date and seven days after) - By post (at least 20 days before the due date) - By someone given legal powers of attorney. the article says Foreign residents may submit their 90-day reports in three ways: - In person at the Immigration Office (with a leeway of 15 days before the due date and seven days after) - By post (at least 20 days before the due date) Does this mean they must receive it before the fifteen days allowance. Being as the mail would should not take 5 days. - By someone given legal powers of attorney. In other words my wife could not take it in for me with out obtaining a power of attorney. I guess that would require an attorney. Not sure of that. If you are a 'digital nomad' running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa. There is another thread running about this that has many posters claiming that is not what the other offices are saying. Is their a misunderstanding in the question that was asked. For instance from the rest of the post I wouold take it to mean one 30 day tourist with one reentry. According to the crackdown on the visa runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesquite Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 SNAFU 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khwaibah Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 That interview was for only a photo op and turned into a Chines Fire Drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leighd7 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Where will the new Chiang Mai Immigration Office be located? Planning has not been confirmed but we hope to locate it conveniently on one of the sky train stops... How stupid we dont have sky train stops in cm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Where will the new Chiang Mai Immigration Office be located? Planning has not been confirmed but we hope to locate it conveniently on one of the sky train stops... How stupid we dont have sky train stops in cm Not yet but has been under proposal since 2008 and recently the idea brought up again. Guess a new office is a long way off if based on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I was at this meeting and did not hear them say that funding as been approved for a new office. I heard them say that the plans are done for a new office and a request for funding has been submitted to Bangkok. If approved, a new building would be ready in two years. That little phrase "if approved" shouldn't be overlooked by the reporter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Also, a couple other "take aways" were ignored in this report. In the past, Chiang Mai Immigration allowed permitted application for extension of permission to remain just 30 days in advance of expiration of the previous extension. Now, you can apply for an extension 45 days in advance for extensions that are "One-Stop", in other words, ones that are approved in Chiang Mai, such as retirement extensions. Those that have to go to Bangkok for approval, like Marriage Extensions still can only be sought 30 days in advance. So now, retirees, you can start checking that on-line appointment queue 145 days in advance of expiration of your extension, instead of 130 days, hoping against hope for an open appointment. Another "take away" in my notes is of more limited interest -- it's about medical extensions. Now all medical extension requests must be accompanied by documents from a government hospital -- they can't be requested by doctors at private hospitals any more. Some reps from Chiang Mai Ram hospital were quite agitated about this part of the presentation! So much for the "Chiang Mai: Center of Medical Tourism" campaign from the Chamber of Commerce. I clarified that the maximum length for a medical extension will remain at 90 days. There had been rumors they were going to reduce it to 30 days. Whew! This little change is going to mean some elderly, infirm people are going to have to be hauled into yet another doctor's appointment at a gov't hospital if their current doctor doesn't already have a practice at gov't hospital. No doctor is going to write medical extension papers for a patient he'd never seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khwaibah Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 There are two threads going on the visa section of TV about Digital nomads but it seems that nobody remembers what miss information came out of a high profile press meeting with Hua Hin immigration on carrying your passport. So think about this... This interview has opened up more questions than answers. The digital nomads bit. Is this just his idea just for Chiang Mai or all of Thailand ? Has this been approved by Bangkok and signed off by the Ministry of Interior? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Regarding mail in,I think the simplest way is to deliver the envelope by hand to immigration and get someone to sign for receipt. At least you will know it got there! (-: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESmith Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Regarding mail in,I think the simplest way is to deliver the envelope by hand to immigration and get someone to sign for receipt. At least you will know it got there! (-: send by EMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Jiang Mai Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Hi, can you please point me to the other thread? I am not clear what we supposedly misunderstood and want to see it to make sure. Thank you! Here are a couple of the items from that link above: http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366 Is something being done to the crowded Chiang Mai Immigration Office? What about the online service? Funding has been confirmed and a new, larger office is scheduled for construction next year. More immigration staff will be employed when it opens. Immigration staff work long hours and are currently struggling with the workload as the number of foreigners resident in the region has increased in recent years. Officers urged people to be patient until the new office opens. Online booking is a limited option, and operates on a first-come-first-served basis. This is to avoid clashes in appointment times with walk-in users. There are no plans to extend it at this time. Ninety day reports The Immigration Office apologises that an online service for 90-day reporting is not yet available. It currently operates a new system which no longer involves barcode scanning, and has tried to transfer biometrical information from its old server to the new one in order to establish an online reporting service. However, due to technical difficulties which it is now trying to solve, online reporting is not yet available. Foreign residents may submit their 90-day reports in three ways: - In person at the Immigration Office (with a leeway of 15 days before the due date and seven days after) - By post (at least 20 days before the due date) - By someone given legal powers of attorney. the article says Foreign residents may submit their 90-day reports in three ways: - In person at the Immigration Office (with a leeway of 15 days before the due date and seven days after) - By post (at least 20 days before the due date) Does this mean they must receive it before the fifteen days allowance. Being as the mail would should not take 5 days. - By someone given legal powers of attorney. In other words my wife could not take it in for me with out obtaining a power of attorney. I guess that would require an attorney. Not sure of that. If you are a 'digital nomad' running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa. There is another thread running about this that has many posters claiming that is not what the other offices are saying. Is their a misunderstanding in the question that was asked. For instance from the rest of the post I wouold take it to mean one 30 day tourist with one reentry. According to the crackdown on the visa runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Hi, can you please point me to the other thread? I am not clear what we supposedly misunderstood and want to see it to make sure. Thank you! It's the one in the Visa section on Digital Nomads - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/753621-digital-nomad-online-workers-permission/ I believe some members are misinterpreting it. I suspect it means if you come in on a tourist visa and need to do some work at home online temporarily for your business abroad than it is not an issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 CM Imm has not come up with a new visa class. The reporter is making a big deal about an off-hand comment one of the junior Imm officials made about how its OK for tourists to hand some business online with overseas clients when the tourist is vacationing in CM. That's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Jiang Mai Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Ah, yes, that's what they said. Very confusing...but there we go. We did, however, make one mistake. The new office hasn't been signed off. So we will correct that but the digital nomad thing was word for word! Thank you. Pim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Ah, yes, that's what they said. Very confusing...but there we go. We did, however, make one mistake. The new office hasn't been signed off. So we will correct that but the digital nomad thing was word for word! Thank you. Pim It seems, according to NancyL's comments above, there may be some important omissions and possibly more misunderstandings and errors in the reporter's article, such as the purported need for someone to have a power of attorney for an individual to do a 90-day report, as well as at least one possible misstatement by the Immigration chief. Wouldn't it be a good idea to send the reporter back to Chiang Mai Immigration to ensure the information is complete and accurate, then publish an update in Chiang Mai News anda link to that article here? Otherwise, the Chiang Mai News report is appreciated. Edited August 22, 2014 by Mapguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) I think it's important that the reporter clarifies what was presented as part of the "canned" talk, i.e. material that had probably been carefully approved in advance by Bangkok and what was said in response to questions from the audience, sometimes by junior officials answering questions that were not posed in their native language. During the Q & A a junior official actually did say you need to give someone a Power of Attorney for someone to do a 90 day report on your behalf. No one challenged them on that. Same with the digital nomad answer -- that was in response to Q & A. As you can see on the Visa Forum, the term "Digital Nomad" isn't widely known throughout Thailand and may have been unknown to the Immigration Official answering the question. I think he saw the question as "can a tourist do a little internet work to keep up with what's going on at the office back home?" The part about the CM office funding being submitted, but not approved -- that was part of their prepared remarks, so I give it more weight than something they said during the Q & A. Incidentally Mapguy, this was a big formal meeting, not a cozy one-on-one session where dialog was encouraged. I don't think the reporter did a good job of establishing the context and setting of the meeting and the fact that some of the information presented in the article was from the formal presentation and some was from the Q & A, and thus probably not as carefully researched by the Immigration officials. Edited August 22, 2014 by NancyL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Yes, it was a general meeting, but most people were unaware of it. I think you are absolutely correct in pointing out differences between prepared remarks, questions-and answers (Q&A), and perhaps some incidental remarks by junior offcials. But, simply speaking, most especially on technical matters, misunderstandings among Thai and English speakers can be common. It does not appear that the reporter was successful, as you put it, "establishing the context and setting of the meeting and the fact that some of the information presented in the article was from the formal presentation and some was from the Q & A, and thus perhaps not as carefully researched by the Immigration officials or, perhaps, responses to questions ill-phrased or only partially understood. Especially if some foreigners are emotionally charged up or trying to hear what they want to hear. Unfortunately, it seems that the reporter's editor apparently did not consider the circumstances. Good editing was needed. That is why I have suggested that the reporter's notes be revisited with the Immigration chief. If poor reporting is done --- especially if it spreads to ThaiVisa ---the floodgates of cynicism and further misunderstanding are opened wide, as if they weren't open wide enough already! I believe that the local Immigration officials are well aware that there is a significant problem, but they are not getting a lot of support solving it. A previous report by Chiang Mai News with a local Immigration chief confirms that as well as the continuing appalling conditions for all (officials and foreigners) at Chiang Mai Immigration. On the other hand, the problems of a few hundred pale farang pale when compared with other Immigration problems in Northern Thailand. I do not think that the meeting was a frivilous PR exercise, but much better and more thorough reporting by local English-language media on an ongoing basis is needed, not just on "drop-in" basis at a meeting like this one. This is not a new item like a car in the moat or a body found in a hotel room! So, thank you, NancyL, for your observations and notes, and, as suggested previously to Pim, it is best that she, as the boss at Chiang Mai News, confirm matters more carefully and maintain an ongoing relationship with Immigration to publish correct information on a continuing basis. Edited August 22, 2014 by Mapguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Jiang Mai Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Thanks Nancy, we will revisit our tapes but at this point we are pretty clear on what was said. There was one tiny translation mistake which, thanks to you, we have corrected. (New building not signed off, but about to be...apparently). As a news outlet, we can not speculate, and can only report on what we were told. Our news editor is an old hand at BKK Post and Straight Times so we are not being wishy washy. We report on what we were told and correct mistakes immediately. Please don't imply that we make mistakes willy nilly! Thanks!!!! We will keep you posted. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) The article was definitely a news report, along the same lines of, as Mapguy said, a car in the moat or body found in a hotel room story. What is missing is any real analysis of what was presented -- perhaps that wasn't the intent and will be coming in future stories. There was no real round-up of the changes. Several are "for the good" -- I mentioned one, about the ability to seek extensions 45 days early for one-stop service. There is another regarding dependent extensions. There probably are more. Many of the changes are not "for the good" and will create more inconvenience and potential hardship for foreigners. Some of the changes are just changes that we need to know about so they don't become "gotchas" that could generate fines or other problems in the future. The Immigration officials made an attempt at doing this in their presentation, so there is material to work with in the handouts given to those who attended the talk. Most of the material was in Thai, of course. Perhaps this type of article is beyond the scope your publication, Pim, but there is a definite need to have the changes presented concisely and clearly in English. Unfortunately, in order to write such an article, it may be necessary to meet with Immigration officials to seek clarification. Seeing as how the "digital nomad" quote in the article caused such a firestorm on the Visa forum of ThaiVisa, I hope they'll be willing to sit down for a one-on-one interview. Edited August 24, 2014 by NancyL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 It is just too easy to end up with misunderstandings, especially when there are "technical" matters involved, especially involving "hot button" immigration concerns. A tape recorder is helpful, but isn't the answer, just a mechanical aid, in a situation like this one. ChiangMai News with good intentions was trying to provide a service to its readership, even asking readers for their questions in advance. It would have been much improved by following up directly to confirm the information very carefully with Immigration before publishing it. That would serve to lessen confusion and assist Immigration officials as well as foreigners. Why confirm? Certainly because of the context of the meeting. The informality of Q&A in which both questions and answers might be misunderstood or misinterpreted is indeed different than reading and analyzing prepared material (which itself might be incomplete, ill-expressed or misinterpreted. And what happens with the interpretation of terms like "digital nomad!" Firestorm! In this case there might be a significant difference between when business by internet is done with whom and where clients and customers are located. Foreigner businesspeople on holiday in Thailand checking back home or businesspeople who are in and out of Thailand while doing a lot of international business travel seem quite different situations than sustained business by foreigners who live here without work permits or properly established businesses. My reference to news stories was basically to note that there is quite a difference between stories about cars in the moat and significant matters such as Immigration regulations and their enforcement. I hope that ChiangMai News improves its public service role especially concerning something this important to many followers. And the other major English language current news source, Chiang Mai Mail, could do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Mapguy, this wasn't a public meeting, nor was it one with a great deal of time for Q & A and follow-up questions. In fact, the question about "digital nomads" was asked by Shana Kungman of Chiang Mai Mail, not anyone from Chiang Mai News. I'm certain Shana, as a native English speaker and long-time Chiang Mai resident clearly understood how local expats understand the term, but I don't know if everyone present and speaking English had the same understanding. You're absolutely right -- a tape recorder isn't answer. What is really needed is for someone who clearly understands the subject AND can speak Thai to have an opportunity for detailed one-one-one follow-up questions. I doubt this may happen. For one thing -- we westerners like to see things as being black-and-white, not open to interpretation. We like to pose questions in terms of hypothetical situations, as Shana did with her question. I'm not certain Thai people like to think in those terms. The answer given Shana was "reasonable". That's a term I've heard Immigration officials use many times in similar contexts -- they'll do what's "reasonable". Of course, we westerners have problems when the definition of "reasonable" keeps changing. Here is a much more thorough report: http://www.chiangmai-mail.com/current/news.shtml#hd1 Edited August 24, 2014 by NancyL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Yes, the Chiang Mai Mail report is much more thorough, and the relevant police orders are available to read. See Tywais' news post. Here's a quote from the Chiang Mai News article that must have caught the attention of quite a few people. This matter was not noted in the Mail article, as I recall. I do not believe that 90 day reports are covered in the new police orders. You were at the meeting. What did you hear? If this is true, the chaos that will ensue at the Immigration office will be awesome! To be sensible, there is nothing implied in the colonel's comments on launching a more efficient 90-day reporting system to suggest such a change. Quote: Ninety day reports The Immigration Office apologises that an online service for 90-day reporting is not yet available. It currently operates a new system which no longer involves barcode scanning, and has tried to transfer biometrical information from its old server to the new one in order to establish an online reporting service. However, due to technical difficulties which it is now trying to solve, online reporting is not yet available. Foreign residents may submit their 90-day reports in three ways: - In person at the Immigration Office (with a leeway of 15 days before the due date and seven days after) - By post (at least 20 days before the due date) - By someone given legal powers of attorney. Your comment about the Western "legalistic" mind (actually more American than elsewhere IMHO) is understood, and I agree that Thai officials do what is as you put it, "reasonable." I'd modify that to say "appropriate for the cicumstances of the situation with intent also being considered." Too many people tippytoe around Thai Immigration. No need for that if people are playing it straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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