Thailand indicts 26 on terrorism, arms charges

[tbthailand]

What other articles...please quote

Oh it's yet more unsubstantiated propaganda

This is interesting. .......

similar writing style to another redshirt apologist who has disappeared from TV..

Nobody is fooled anymore by these lies and deceptions. .give it up..please!!

Other articles are easily found in most cases, but sometime they are blocked. Especially the article related to mistreatment of detainees from the junta. It's hardly unsubstantiated or propaganda, but the claims of abuse have naturally not been investigated by the military and if they ever were, would you believe them? Tip - it would be the same as believing the internal investigations of the FBI.

Lies and deception? Events are events. You can't call them lies.

It's so easy to post lies about what has been blocked because you or no one else can verify or disprove your allegations. I can also make a ridiculous assertion that nothing was blocked and it is equally impossible to verify or disprove. I'm not talking about all the web sites blocked over the past years.

There has been one - yes one - claim out of the hundreds that were temporarily detained. She changed her tune after being caught up in weapons distribution just like those in the Op. Anyone who believes her is just gullible or fanatical.

It is best to be sceptical of anything one reads until some verification emerges. Personally I am more than sceptical of what you have written because it sounds like conspiracy talk to me.

Maybe you would want to point out which parts of my post are lies, if that is what you meant. You are aware that the laws about what you can say and not say have changed in Thailand? You know that there are rules on this forum to protect you and to protect me - and also to protect the owners of this site? You'll just have to live with your own 10 fingers and google.

Nearly 600 have been officially detained - meaning their name is on a list somewhere.

All have been forced to sign a statement that they will not engage in any political activity.

The lady who says she was not properly treated did not say that until she was safely out of reach. Your timing is a bit off - it was the junta who charged her with the weapons charges after she came out with her statements. That they only charged her with weapons charges at that time and not during the nearly four weeks that she was in their custody is suspicious at the least. And she was detained without any information for several weeks and the junta denied at first that they had her in custody.

A recently detained student has also made statements about his treatment. He has not left the country.

Verification is a bit difficult, when the junta keeps people in undisclosed locations and doesn't allow any contact to the outside world, family or lawyers, don't you think? That is exactly why human rights organizations have been complaining directly to the junta. The junta says they don't mistreat anyone, but then there is zero transparency.

Just about all of your previous post was nothing but innuendo, unproven accusations and wild accusations of lies. I just returned your accusation. An example: 'Events are events. You can't call them lies.' you gave no specific example of 'events' so one certainly can call them lies.

The woman you refer to was accused months ago of being involved with arms along with the killed red poet. She knew very well that charges were likely and she may well have been a target too. Yes the army initially denied that she was detained and then admitted it. Just a left and right hand out of sync.

Where is the evidence that all detainees had to sign anything? A link or reputable source might help.

As far as I know most if not all detainees have been released, except for those charged or awaiting charges on weapons possession, firing grenades and guns. It was never going to be perfect but was very badly needed to stop the pre-coup violence and actually arrest many of those responsible, unlike the CAPO led violence-supporting police.

You also could provide some supporting evidence about the student you mention. Or is this another unsubstantiated allegation, which, again, your post is full of.

again, there are rules on this forum and legal issues in Thailand. One person was recently charged with LM for sending an email to a website with links to another website several years ago. So you can understand that the rules on this forum are there for a reason.

if you feel that the previous post was innuendo, unproven accusations, and wild accusations of lies, then with the current state of things in Thailand, I cannot help you much here, on this forum. I would suggest that you read much more information than what is typically available on this forum if you want to have a better view of the world. You may not come to the same conclusions and opinions that I have come to, but at least we would be able to agree on the basics regarding what has happened.

I meant to add, the student story is on prachatai. The document that every invitee of the junta is forced to sign is mentioned in nearly every article which discusses some one going to and then being released from attitude adjustment camp. So it should be easy for you to see references to that if you have not already. The interesting ones are the documents from a few of the invitees who have been held longer than seven days. The Junta has them sign a document stating that they are remaining detained (mind you in an undisclosed location with no contact to family or legal council) of their own free will. You can chose to believe that they stay voluntarily or not.

Edited August 24, 2014 by tbthailand

[Arkady]

The crimes they are accused of are heinous and, if guilty, they deserve severe punishment, although preferably from a civilian court, so they can't complain they were unfairly treated. But these seem to be only small fry. It would be good to see the commanders and financiers go on trial but that will probably not happen.

Are all new charges of this kind (with emphasize on new) automatically passed to Military Courts as probably dictated by the Martial Law ?

I would think that 'normal' cases the Military Court doesn't get, or immediately passes on ?

Normally the military courts in Thailand only try military personnel which is normal in most countries, except in war zones where martial law is in force. Even in the South Muslim insurgents accused of terrorism in districts under martial law have been tried in the civilian courts. However, I believe the NCPO issued an order to the effect that offences against martial law will be tried in military courts, including those committed before martial law was declared.

At the time a case could be made for the order, since the military was potentially facing a wide spread red shirt uprising according to red shirt leaders and ministers in the previous government. But since the security situation has been stabilised, there might be a case to transfer the cases to civilian courts. The processes for trying civilians in the military court may turn to be not much different to the civilian courts, which are notoriously shoddy for defendants anyway, although there is no appeal in the military court. But anyone convicted will obviously claim they didn't get a fair trial. Convicting them in the civilian court and allowing appeals, all the way to the Supreme Court would avoid this. No disrespect intended to the NCPO.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Chupup]

But then. while these "terrorists" are held in a civilain jail, the PAYMASTER a CONVICTED CRIM lives the good life and travels the world

[khunken]

It's so easy to post lies about what has been blocked because you or no one else can verify or disprove your allegations. I can also make a ridiculous assertion that nothing was blocked and it is equally impossible to verify or disprove. I'm not talking about all the web sites blocked over the past years.

There has been one - yes one - claim out of the hundreds that were temporarily detained. She changed her tune after being caught up in weapons distribution just like those in the Op. Anyone who believes her is just gullible or fanatical.

It is best to be sceptical of anything one reads until some verification emerges. Personally I am more than sceptical of what you have written because it sounds like conspiracy talk to me.

Maybe you would want to point out which parts of my post are lies, if that is what you meant. You are aware that the laws about what you can say and not say have changed in Thailand? You know that there are rules on this forum to protect you and to protect me - and also to protect the owners of this site? You'll just have to live with your own 10 fingers and google.

Nearly 600 have been officially detained - meaning their name is on a list somewhere.

All have been forced to sign a statement that they will not engage in any political activity.

The lady who says she was not properly treated did not say that until she was safely out of reach. Your timing is a bit off - it was the junta who charged her with the weapons charges after she came out with her statements. That they only charged her with weapons charges at that time and not during the nearly four weeks that she was in their custody is suspicious at the least. And she was detained without any information for several weeks and the junta denied at first that they had her in custody.

A recently detained student has also made statements about his treatment. He has not left the country.

Verification is a bit difficult, when the junta keeps people in undisclosed locations and doesn't allow any contact to the outside world, family or lawyers, don't you think? That is exactly why human rights organizations have been complaining directly to the junta. The junta says they don't mistreat anyone, but then there is zero transparency.

Just about all of your previous post was nothing but innuendo, unproven accusations and wild accusations of lies. I just returned your accusation. An example: 'Events are events. You can't call them lies.' you gave no specific example of 'events' so one certainly can call them lies.

The woman you refer to was accused months ago of being involved with arms along with the killed red poet. She knew very well that charges were likely and she may well have been a target too. Yes the army initially denied that she was detained and then admitted it. Just a left and right hand out of sync.

Where is the evidence that all detainees had to sign anything? A link or reputable source might help.

As far as I know most if not all detainees have been released, except for those charged or awaiting charges on weapons possession, firing grenades and guns. It was never going to be perfect but was very badly needed to stop the pre-coup violence and actually arrest many of those responsible, unlike the CAPO led violence-supporting police.

You also could provide some supporting evidence about the student you mention. Or is this another unsubstantiated allegation, which, again, your post is full of.

again, there are rules on this forum and legal issues in Thailand. One person was recently charged with LM for sending an email to a website with links to another website several years ago. So you can understand that the rules on this forum are there for a reason.

if you feel that the previous post was innuendo, unproven accusations, and wild accusations of lies, then with the current state of things in Thailand, I cannot help you much here, on this forum. I would suggest that you read much more information than what is typically available on this forum if you want to have a better view of the world. You may not come to the same conclusions and opinions that I have come to, but at least we would be able to agree on the basics regarding what has happened.

I meant to add, the student story is on prachatai. The document that every invitee of the junta is forced to sign is mentioned in nearly every article which discusses some one going to and then being released from attitude adjustment camp. So it should be easy for you to see references to that if you have not already. The interesting ones are the documents from a few of the invitees who have been held longer than seven days. The Junta has them sign a document stating that they are remaining detained (mind you in an undisclosed location with no contact to family or legal council) of their own free will. You can chose to believe that they stay voluntarily or not.

Using the LM excuse is not a valid reason to post all sorts of innuendo & conspiracy allegations that have nothing to do with LM. All you have to do is follow TV's rules which are quite liberal and only warn against LM and unwarranted criticism of the NCPO.

I certainly don't limit myself to news on this forum, nor do limit myself to blatantly anti-coup websites such as Prachathai and certainly not the pro-Thaksin Bangkok Pundit that Prachathai has a link to.

The student's story certainly follows the general bias on Prachathai and it does not make it a 'fact' nor is it verification which is only obtained by a credible source. Similarly the so-called document that they are supposed to have signed is not confirmed & I totally disbelieve that every detainee was forced to sign anything.

It is you that needs to widen the selection of your single source to more credible and independent sources. It's also a pity that you have steadfastly refused to answer any questions or comments about why this happened and how the human rights 'abuses' measure up to the deadly abuses before the coup.

[mikemac]

the suspects were allegedly intent on a “large-scale attack” in Khon Kaen

And I live 2 minutes from the apartment that held these red terrorists. They were caught because the good, concerned and honorable people of KK "dobbed" them in.

The majority of Thai's despise terrorism. 7% cherish it.

My children and I thank the good General and the majority of Thai's for ensuring they were caught.

​One cannot forget who was at the top of the org chart in the apartment room as well.

​thaksin…..

Of course there will be silence or denial on that front. Maybe even a "fake" news story might suffice as an excuse for the red apologists if they are too lazy to come up with a better excuse.

According to the military court charges, 22 people were arrested in a hotel (allegedly meeting to plan violence), not an apartment. Do you know "the good concerned and honorable people of KK" that "dobbed them in"? Can you tell me where you got this information? Where did you get the idea that 7% of Thai people cherish terrorism?

Oh yes, of course, who could forget the organisation chart, found "in the apartment room". I mean, what self respecting terrorist organisation doesn't pin up an organisation chart with a silhouette of the leader at the top mysteriously named as "the mastermind who lives overseas" just in case their "apartment" is raided?

Talk about fake news stories, you couldn't make it up......................

There is an investigative report in the BP which is probably more reliable than the post above.

I would suggest that Djjamie's post is probably more reliable than yours.

The AFP report mentiones an apartment and the BP's says a hotel so the jury's still out on that one.

I've read the BP's 'investigative report' and there's not much investigation in it. It's mostly about military courts and visitors to the accused.

There are a handful of 'beauties' in the article. The FTLA who are providing legal aid to some of the accused mentioned providing the same to Thaksin. Free legal aid to a billionaire? Ha ha.

One of the accused, Mr Nattawut (a different one to the infamous mercenary) said that the meeting was to discuss 'business issues related to agricultural projects'. Yep, the bank security guard would have the appropriate expertise there.

The wife of one of them, Mrs Natkritta, visiting her husband wondered why 'they are only old and poor people' (her husband is 47) and 'where would we get money to buy weapons'. The obvious source seems beyond her comprehension.

Now I don't know about the 'terror chart' and I do have concerns about them being tried in a military court. The reason is very likely because of bail being handed out like sweets in the civil courts. No doubt that some of the accused are of high enough profile in the organisation that large sums of bail money could be raised if necessary. So, it's a conundrum.

I sway slightly to no military court trials as IMO it's better to release a probable criminal than incarcerate an innocent one.

........................."I would suggest that Djjamie's post is probably more reliable than yours".............................

I would suggest that any post Djjamie has ever posted is definitely more reliable than his, and I would think any of the long-time, level headed TV members would agree.

[mikemac]

Prachathai + Bangkok Pundit + Political Prisoners in Thailand = NO CREDIBILITY !

Anyone who quotes from low-life sites like the above (or posts links to them (phipodon)) should be............................................

[ianf]

Most of them charged without any evidence and all physically & mentally intimidated into signing confessions.

OK. Please let us know the source of this information and the evidence.

Please don't tell me you only get your news from The Nation.

No. But I asked you a question and you seem unable to answer it.

[tbthailand]

Maybe you would want to point out which parts of my post are lies, if that is what you meant. You are aware that the laws about what you can say and not say have changed in Thailand? You know that there are rules on this forum to protect you and to protect me - and also to protect the owners of this site? You'll just have to live with your own 10 fingers and google.

Nearly 600 have been officially detained - meaning their name is on a list somewhere.

All have been forced to sign a statement that they will not engage in any political activity.

The lady who says she was not properly treated did not say that until she was safely out of reach. Your timing is a bit off - it was the junta who charged her with the weapons charges after she came out with her statements. That they only charged her with weapons charges at that time and not during the nearly four weeks that she was in their custody is suspicious at the least. And she was detained without any information for several weeks and the junta denied at first that they had her in custody.

A recently detained student has also made statements about his treatment. He has not left the country.

Verification is a bit difficult, when the junta keeps people in undisclosed locations and doesn't allow any contact to the outside world, family or lawyers, don't you think? That is exactly why human rights organizations have been complaining directly to the junta. The junta says they don't mistreat anyone, but then there is zero transparency.

Just about all of your previous post was nothing but innuendo, unproven accusations and wild accusations of lies. I just returned your accusation. An example: 'Events are events. You can't call them lies.' you gave no specific example of 'events' so one certainly can call them lies.

The woman you refer to was accused months ago of being involved with arms along with the killed red poet. She knew very well that charges were likely and she may well have been a target too. Yes the army initially denied that she was detained and then admitted it. Just a left and right hand out of sync.

Where is the evidence that all detainees had to sign anything? A link or reputable source might help.

As far as I know most if not all detainees have been released, except for those charged or awaiting charges on weapons possession, firing grenades and guns. It was never going to be perfect but was very badly needed to stop the pre-coup violence and actually arrest many of those responsible, unlike the CAPO led violence-supporting police.

You also could provide some supporting evidence about the student you mention. Or is this another unsubstantiated allegation, which, again, your post is full of.

again, there are rules on this forum and legal issues in Thailand. One person was recently charged with LM for sending an email to a website with links to another website several years ago. So you can understand that the rules on this forum are there for a reason.

if you feel that the previous post was innuendo, unproven accusations, and wild accusations of lies, then with the current state of things in Thailand, I cannot help you much here, on this forum. I would suggest that you read much more information than what is typically available on this forum if you want to have a better view of the world. You may not come to the same conclusions and opinions that I have come to, but at least we would be able to agree on the basics regarding what has happened.

I meant to add, the student story is on prachatai. The document that every invitee of the junta is forced to sign is mentioned in nearly every article which discusses some one going to and then being released from attitude adjustment camp. So it should be easy for you to see references to that if you have not already. The interesting ones are the documents from a few of the invitees who have been held longer than seven days. The Junta has them sign a document stating that they are remaining detained (mind you in an undisclosed location with no contact to family or legal council) of their own free will. You can chose to believe that they stay voluntarily or not.

Using the LM excuse is not a valid reason to post all sorts of innuendo & conspiracy allegations that have nothing to do with LM. All you have to do is follow TV's rules which are quite liberal and only warn against LM and unwarranted criticism of the NCPO.

I certainly don't limit myself to news on this forum, nor do limit myself to blatantly anti-coup websites such as Prachathai and certainly not the pro-Thaksin Bangkok Pundit that Prachathai has a link to.

The student's story certainly follows the general bias on Prachathai and it does not make it a 'fact' nor is it verification which is only obtained by a credible source. Similarly the so-called document that they are supposed to have signed is not confirmed & I totally disbelieve that every detainee was forced to sign anything.

It is you that needs to widen the selection of your single source to more credible and independent sources. It's also a pity that you have steadfastly refused to answer any questions or comments about why this happened and how the human rights 'abuses' measure up to the deadly abuses before the coup.

regarding your last paragraph, I did not see that you asked any questions in that vein. But feel free to formulate a specific question if you are interested.

IMO, this comment, from all of your comments, 'I totally disbelieve that every detainee was forced to sign anything.' makes your general position fairly clear. If you can't believe something that has been so widely reported at this, then what will you believe? That's not a jab, that is an honest question.

As for news sources, I think I cover the available options, but if you want to recommend what you read, I would be happy to check that out, too.

As for the student's story not being 'fact', well in the sense that what he recounts happened under the cloud of secrecy that the Junta has wrapped around the process of "bringing happiness to the Thai people" it is impossible to have any independent confirmation. But that is the point. That does not make it a lie, that does not make it an innuendo. It is a fact that this student has made this claim. It is a fact that Kritsuda has made her claims. It is a fact that the Junta had denied Kritsuda's claims. There are details and additional events surrounding all of these stories.

It is possible to put that all together and then think about it. Then keep adding information. The military is operating with a complete lack of transparency. Why would they do that? That is a good question. No one is forcing the military to be secretive about these little 'retreats'.

You can draw what ever conclusions you want from the events that are taking place. I do. But when things happen, those are not lies and innuendo, those are things that people have made a choice to do and say. Kritsuda chose to leave her own country and seek asylum. She did that - why?

The student is still in Thailand and he is claiming that the army threatened him - why would he do that? Seriously - ask yourself what sense that makes for him to claim that if it is not true? What would he gain, how would he benefit in fabricating such a story? If you can find a good reason, then let's here it. Because if he is making that up, then he is one stupid student.

[tbthailand]

Prachathai + Bangkok Pundit + Political Prisoners in Thailand = NO CREDIBILITY !

Anyone who quotes from low-life sites like the above (or posts links to them (phipodon)) should be............................................

What an intellectual you are

You forgot Bangkok Post, Nation multimedia, Thai PBS,

Oh, then there is the BBC, FT, WSJ, Forbes - what other useless news sources can you come up with.

Surely you would add HRW and AI as well. Maybe RT?

[rubl]

The crimes they are accused of are heinous and, if guilty, they deserve severe punishment, although preferably from a civilian court, so they can't complain they were unfairly treated. But these seem to be only small fry. It would be good to see the commanders and financiers go on trial but that will probably not happen.

Are all new charges of this kind (with emphasize on new) automatically passed to Military Courts as probably dictated by the Martial Law ?

I would think that 'normal' cases the Military Court doesn't get, or immediately passes on ?

Normally the military courts in Thailand only try military personnel which is normal in most countries, except in war zones where martial law is in force. Even in the South Muslim insurgents accused of terrorism in districts under martial law have been tried in the civilian courts. However, I believe the NCPO issued an order to the effect that offences against martial law will be tried in military courts, including those committed before martial law was declared.

At the time a case could be made for the order, since the military was potentially facing a wide spread red shirt uprising according to red shirt leaders and ministers in the previous government. But since the security situation has been stabilised, there might be a case to transfer the cases to civilian courts. The processes for trying civilians in the military court may turn to be not much different to the civilian courts, which are notoriously shoddy for defendants anyway, although there is no appeal in the military court. But anyone convicted will obviously claim they didn't get a fair trial. Convicting them in the civilian court and allowing appeals, all the way to the Supreme Court would avoid this. No disrespect intended to the NCPO.

Thank for the explanation

One thing though.

"However, I believe the NCPO issued an order to the effect that offences against martial law will be tried in military courts, including those committed before martial law was declared."

I don't remember that "including" part (which doesn't mean a thing I must admit), but I also can't find it. More's the pity as I only vaguely remember Martial Law would apply to new cases. I think they meant a difference between when crimes were committed and when actual charges were made at court. I will search some more and try to find an answer to this.

Cheers,

uncle rubl

[rubl]

...

The student is still in Thailand and he is claiming that the army threatened him - why would he do that? Seriously - ask yourself what sense that makes for him to claim that if it is not true? What would he gain, how would he benefit in fabricating such a story? If you can find a good reason, then let's here it. Because if he is making that up, then he is one stupid student.

Wrong approach, my dear TB.

What you should say is

"with this terribly oppressive junta anyone speaking against must be telling the truth" obviously as well.

Mind you, I've been a student only a few decades ago and I still vaguely remember the fun of upsetting the establishment.

Edited August 25, 2014 by rubl

[Arkady]

It's probably worth mentioning that the processes of trying civilians in a military court under the civilian Penal Code are as yet unclear, eg right to call witnesses, rules for evidence etc, because the military courts have only been used to try military personnel on recent times and I believe they are normally tried under military law. Obviously the defendants and their lawyers will fear the worse but it remains to be seen how the military court will conduct itself. At any rate it is a one shot with no appeal which also means the prosecution can't appeal against an acquittal, as they frequently do in Thailand.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand