1400 children sexually exploited in UK town Rotherham: report

[wilcopops]

You can't change views based on prejudice and bigotry....they are immune to reason and evidence.

Don't be silly. Of course you can. Many people have changed hateful views over the centuries. George Wallace is just one example. He renounced his views on segregation. The son of the founder of Hamas is another. He turned his back on the Hamas terrorists and helped Israel instead.

I don't think you understand the statement - and no, i'm not going to explain it

I understand it and you are incorrect as my examples prove. Of course you are not going to explain it. You can't explain away such an absurd statement. It is very obvious what you meant.

QED

[wilcopops]

No idea if you can get Channel 4 News over there . . .

http://www.channel4.com/news/13-men-convicted-of-grooming-in-bristol-video

can you explain why you have posted this?

[7by7]

You can't change views based on prejudice and bigotry....they are immune to reason and evidence.

Don't be silly. Of course you can. Many people have changed hateful views over the centuries. George Wallace is just one example. He renounced his views on segregation. The son of the founder of Hamas is another. He turned his back on the Hamas terrorists and helped Israel instead.

I don't think you understand the statement - and no, i'm not going to explain it

I understand it and you are incorrect as my examples prove. Of course you are not going to explain it. You can't explain away such an absurd statement. It is very obvious what you meant.

I accept that some prejudiced bigots can have their views changed over time when presented with truth, reason and evidence.

Unfortunately, certain members of this forum are not among them.

Edited November 28, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

You maintained that Muslim men who committed this appalling crime did so because of their ethnicity and religion; stressing that they were not white Anglo Saxon Christians.

I asked you if you held the same belief when men of other races and religions committed it.

Why wont you answer?

I did, at post #621.

Maybe in your blind rage at all these Muslim atrocities you missed it. So here it is again

When the topic is about white Anglo-Saxon Christian gangs acting in the same manner as these people. They will also get both barrels.

That's correct, I said they carried out these atrocities because the were people of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

Just like the latest atrocity as reported on both the BBC and Sky were carried out by people of Muslim Somali origin. I will continue to stand by that statement.

I also said, stand by, the cat is now out the bag and we will see a lot more of these atrocities coming to the fore. I will continue to stand by that statement.

Just for you

http://news.sky.com/story/1381451/thirteen-convicted-over-teen-girls-sex-ring

That is not answering the question; but then I didn't expect you to.

Indeed, it was your post 621 which prompted me to ask it in the first place!

You constantly stress the race and religion of these monsters as if that was the reason they committed these horrendous acts.

It wasn't.

They didn't commit these crimes because they are Pakistani, or Somali or Muslim.

They committed these crimes because they are monsters; the same as anyone else who commits this foul crime.

Edited November 28, 2014 by MJP

[MJP]

No idea if you can get Channel 4 News over there . . .

http://www.channel4.com/news/13-men-convicted-of-grooming-in-bristol-video

can you explain why you have posted this?

It's a report about similar abuse in Bristol and the fact that they have been prosecuted.

[wilcopops]

No idea if you can get Channel 4 News over there . . .

http://www.channel4.com/news/13-men-convicted-of-grooming-in-bristol-video

can you explain why you have posted this?

It's a report about similar abuse in Bristol and the fact that they have been prosecuted.

...and?

[wilcopops]

If you look at this in terms or race or religion you simply haven't a hope of understanding what happened

It is all too obvious what is happening. Race and religion being the common denominator.

Classic case of confusing association with causation.

Nothing confusing about it. It is as clear as day. Unless your head is deeply buried in the sand.

You can change people's opinions; opinions are derived from reason and evidence.

You can't change views based on prejudice and bigotry....they are immune to reason and evidence.

The reasons and evidence is there. It is called the Quran.

They cannot be changed, because the Quran is above reproach.

I see - so how do you explain this?

""The Quran possesses an external appearance and a hidden depth, an exoteric meaning and an esoteric meaning. This esoteric meaning in turn conceals an esoteric meaning (this depth possesses a depth, after the image of the celestial Spheres, which are enclosed within each other). So it goes on for seven esoteric meanings (seven depths of hidden depth)"

[MJP]

No idea if you can get Channel 4 News over there . . .

http://www.channel4.com/news/13-men-convicted-of-grooming-in-bristol-video

can you explain why you have posted this?

It's a report about similar abuse in Bristol and the fact that they have been prosecuted.

...and?

What's your problem? It's relevant and on topic.

[JockPieandBeans]

You maintained that Muslim men who committed this appalling crime did so because of their ethnicity and religion; stressing that they were not white Anglo Saxon Christians.

I asked you if you held the same belief when men of other races and religions committed it.

Why wont you answer?

I did, at post #621.

Maybe in your blind rage at all these Muslim atrocities you missed it. So here it is again

When the topic is about white Anglo-Saxon Christian gangs acting in the same manner as these animals. They will also get both barrels.

That's correct, I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

Just like the latest atrocity as reported on both the BBC and Sky were carried out by animals of Muslim Somali origin. I will continue to stand by that statement.

I also said, stand by, the cat is now out the bag and we will see a lot more of these atrocities coming to the fore. I will continue to stand by that statement.

Just for you

http://news.sky.com/story/1381451/thirteen-convicted-over-teen-girls-sex-ring

That is not answering the question; but then I didn't expect you to.

Indeed, it was your post 621 which prompted me to ask it in the first place!

You constantly stress the race and religion of these monsters as if that was the reason they committed these horrendous acts.

It wasn't.

They didn't commit these crimes because they are Pakistani, or Somali or Muslim.

They committed these crimes because they are monsters; the same as anyone else who commits this foul crime.

It did answer the question. To answer it in full would have been off topic. If and when a topic is opened up that pertains to people that are white, Anglo-Saxons it will then get a full answer. Until that time, the topic is not about white Anglo-Saxons.

Did you interview these people personally ? So you have no idea as to why they committed these atrocities. Again you make assumptions. I will agree with you, that they are indeed monsters.

That does not change the fact that they are monsters, who are Muslims of both Pakistani and Somali origin.

I understand that it must pain you to see these people being referred to as Muslims. That is not my concern, that is what they are.

No doubt that you will yet again, call me racist for speaking the truth.

[JockPieandBeans]

A little paragraph showing the mentality of these @ssholes

One defendant forced a victim to be raped by his younger brother to try to save him from going to hell as he "wanted to turn gay".

http://news.sky.com/story/1382181/seven-men-sentenced-over-child-sex-crimes

What more can I say.

[MJP]

I've replaced the word "animals" with the word "people" in some of the posts above. Tone down the rhetoric just a wee bit please.

Thank you.

[simple1]

More detail has now been publically made available regarding events and sentencing in Bristol for sexual abuse crimes similar to Rotherham. These <deleted> are just criminals and paedos.

http://www.bbc.com/n...ristol-30248828

It's great to see the barriers of political correctness that prevented justice in the past are finally coming down and these <deleted> are being put behind bars, although I think some of the sentences are far too lenient. Further those holding dual nationality or non UK citizens should be deported after serving their time in prison. I trust more aggressive police and social services responses will continue wherever these crimes are committed. Ideally parallel prosecution & convictions will get underway for UK agency staff who totally failed in their duty of care.

How dare these <deleted> behave like this, treat the British people (I am a UK citizen) with such disrespect after so many have been welcomed into Britain and facilitated with a safe and comfortable existence.

One has to admire the victims who had to relive their experiences during trials to achieve convictions.

[JockPieandBeans]

Simple 1

I had typed out a long response to you. My internet went down and I lost the response.

I am not retyping it, so here is the short version.

Well said. It is just a pity that action was not taken over 2 decades ago, when sane, rational people were highlighting and reporting issues, only to be branded racists and ignored.

The strength of character of these victims is outstanding. I dread to think of the shit that they must have endured to get themselves believed and action taken. I would like to think that is the end of this sort of atrocity. However, I fear this will be the catalyst for a lot more victims to come forward.

The UK is now at a crossroads. It will be interesting to see if the spineless wonders that are called Politicians will have the nerve to take the hard but correct road, or the easy but wrong road.

[7by7]

<snip> I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

There you go again; stressing their race and religion as a reason for their committing this atrocity; "because the(y) were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin."

It did answer the question. To answer it in full would have been off topic. If and when a topic is opened up that pertains to people that are white, Anglo-Saxons it will then get a full answer. Until that time, the topic is not about white Anglo-Saxons.

The topic was originally about Rotherham and so you use that as an excuse to dodge questions about white non Muslims who also commit this terrible crime.

Yet you are quite happy to post about and comment upon other incidents when the perpetrators are Muslim in order to 'prove' your point that this is a Muslim crime only!

Did you interview these people personally ? So you have no idea as to why they committed these atrocities. Again you make assumptions.

I am making no assumptions; unlike you.

It is you who is assuming and repeatedly stating that they committed this horrible crime "because they were animals Muslims of Pakistani origin."

I have asked you before for any evidence that these men used their religion to excuse their crimes; you have not come up with any.

I have no problem with their race and religion being mentioned; indeed have said as much many times in this topic.

My problem is with people, like you, who repeatedly say that these men committed this foul crime because of their race and religion; whilst ignoring the incidents of white, non Muslims committing the same crime.

White, non Muslims who, individually or in groups, have been getting away with it for decades!

You don't care about that; it doesn't fit your agenda.

This topic should have been a discussion of the report, what could be learned and changed in order to better defend children against the beasts who commit this horrible crime; regardless of their race or religion.

You, and others, have succeeded in turning it into a cess pit for racists to spread their prejudice.

Any attempt at rational discussion with such a person is useless; so I'll leave you to wallow in your mire.

[JockPieandBeans]

<snip> I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

There you go again; stressing their race and religion as a reason for their committing this atrocity; "because the(y) were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin."

It did answer the question. To answer it in full would have been off topic. If and when a topic is opened up that pertains to people that are white, Anglo-Saxons it will then get a full answer. Until that time, the topic is not about white Anglo-Saxons.

The topic was originally about Rotherham and so you use that as an excuse to dodge questions about white non Muslims who also commit this terrible crime.

Yet you are quite happy to post about and comment upon other incidents when the perpetrators are Muslim in order to 'prove' your point that this is a Muslim crime only!

Did you interview these people personally ? So you have no idea as to why they committed these atrocities. Again you make assumptions.

I am making no assumptions; unlike you.

It is you who is assuming and repeatedly stating that they committed this horrible crime "because they were animals Muslims of Pakistani origin."

I have asked you before for any evidence that these men used their religion to excuse their crimes; you have not come up with any.

I have no problem with their race and religion being mentioned; indeed have said as much many times in this topic.

My problem is with people, like you, who repeatedly say that these men committed this foul crime because of their race and religion; whilst ignoring the incidents of white, non Muslims committing the same crime.

White, non Muslims who, individually or in groups, have been getting away with it for decades!

You don't care about that; it doesn't fit your agenda.

This topic should have been a discussion of the report, what could be learned and changed in order to better defend children against the beasts who commit this horrible crime; regardless of their race or religion.

You, and others, have succeeded in turning it into a cess pit for racists to spread their prejudice.

Any attempt at rational discussion with such a person is useless; so I'll leave you to wallow in your mire.

Your going to have a heart attack. I suggest that you calm down.

Let me spell this out for you.

The atrocities of Rotherham were carried out by Mulims of Pakistani Origin.

The atrocities carried out in Bristol were carried out by Muslims of Somali Origin.

That is fact. Whether you like it or not.

If and when a topic is started because of white Anglo-Saxon gangs carrying out similar atrocities then that tread will get, from me, the attention that it deserves. As there is currently no thread with such a topic running, I can only assume that you keep bringing it up to deflect attention away from the obvious.

If you want to talk about cesspits. Look no further than the cesspits of Rotherham and Bristol. That would be the cesspit that these atrocities were carried out in. I have no doubt that a few more cesspits will be identified in the not too distant future.

Its nice to see that you, have yet again, resorted to insults. Insults, the last bastion of those who have lost their argument.

[MJP]

The atrocities were carried out by criminals and paedos.

How religious are you?

I'm classified and categorised as a white Christian, but I'm not religious. Just because someone is categorised into a religious group by another group, it doesn't mean the individuals actually are religious.

Yes, there is a problem with Pakistani and Somali grooming gangs, that's widely recognised and accepted now. But whether religion has anything to do with this is tenuous at best.

[wilcopops]

The atrocities were carried out by criminals and paedos.

How religious are you?

I'm classified and categorised as a white Christian, but I'm not religious. Just because someone is categorised into a religious group by another group, it doesn't mean the individuals actually are religious.

Yes, there is a problem with Pakistani and Somali grooming gangs, that's widely recognised and accepted now. But whether religion has anything to do with this is tenuous at best.

"Yes, there is a problem with Pakistani and Somali grooming gangs, that's widely recognised and accepted now" - is it really?

[MJP]

The atrocities were carried out by criminals and paedos.

How religious are you?

I'm classified and categorised as a white Christian, but I'm not religious. Just because someone is categorised into a religious group by another group, it doesn't mean the individuals actually are religious.

Yes, there is a problem with Pakistani and Somali grooming gangs, that's widely recognised and accepted now. But whether religion has anything to do with this is tenuous at best.

"Yes, there is a problem with Pakistani and Somali grooming gangs, that's widely recognised and accepted now" - is it really?

Yes it is.

When the old Pakistani mother's started saying it on the telly, it was confirmation to me that there's a problem.

No links. Just what I've been reading and watching.

The same with the Roman Catholic church, It's now widely recognised and accepted that there was a paedo problem there. The previous Pope's tried to sweep it under the rug, the present Pope is openly dealing with it.

Westminster next!

[7by7]

The atrocities of Rotherham were carried out by Mulims of Pakistani Origin.

The atrocities carried out in Bristol were carried out by Muslims of Somali Origin.

That is fact. Whether you like it or not.

Show me a single word, phrase or sentence of mine where I have ever denied it.

I am saying that they did not commit these crimes because of their race or religion.

You are saying that they committed their crimes because of their race and religion; whilst at the same time desperately trying to ignore and dodge the fact that persons of other races and other religions also commit this crime as it disproves your prejudiced assumptions.

The atrocities coming to light in Westminster were carried out by white non Muslims.

The atrocities in Catholic children's homes were carried out by Catholics.

Evil perverted people of all races and all religions, or none, commit this horrible crime.

That is a fact; no matter how many times you try and place the blame on just one group.

No doubt you will now dodge the issue again and claim, yet again, that I am an apologist for paedophiles; as you always do when you run out of arguments.

So be it.

.

[JockPieandBeans]

The atrocities were carried out by criminals and paedos.

How religious are you?

I'm classified and categorised as a white Christian, but I'm not religious. Just because someone is categorised into a religious group by another group, it doesn't mean the individuals actually are religious.

Yes, there is a problem with Pakistani and Somali grooming gangs, that's widely recognised and accepted now. But whether religion has anything to do with this is tenuous at best.

MJP

Was that aimed at me ?

If it was. I am not religious, in fact if I was a God I would ban Religion. I have seen far too much death and destruction in the name of Religion.

Unfortunately MJP, it is not widely recognised. It has been institutionally ignored for decades. It has taken the case of Rotherham for it to become a subject that is no longer taboo. It would even be fair to say, that the Bristol case was silenced until they were actually committed for sentencing.

Where it has been widely recognised is within the general public. Who, very sadly, were branded racist for highlighting and reporting events carried out by certain communities.

I would also go as far as to say. That the only reason that these 2 cases have come to the fore, is because it COULD NOT be hidden.

It is a fact that I have said that both of these cases involved Muslims of both Pakistani and Somali origin. It is also a fact that I have never said they committed these atrocities purely on the basis that they are Muslims.

[JockPieandBeans]

You are saying that they committed their crimes because of their race and religion; whilst at the same time desperately trying to ignore and dodge the fact that persons of other races and other religions also commit this crime as it disproves your prejudiced assumptions.

The atrocities coming to light in Westminster were carried out by white non Muslims.

The atrocities in Catholic children's homes were carried out by Catholics.

Evil perverted people of all races and all religions, or none, commit this horrible crime.

That is a fact; no matter how many times you try and place the blame on just one group.

Ok, let me try to make this easy for you.

1. No I did not. That is what you read in your blind rage. I even emphasised the point for you on a number of occasions.

2. Westminster, at present is no more than speculation. I have already said that I have no doubt in my own mind that there is an element of truth to the allegations. As yet there have been no charges brought to anyone. So a stupid comparison.

3. The fact that Catholics committed crimes, and that people of all persuations certainly do commit rape. However that is not the topic. As you bring it up, after racking my brains, I cannot think of any other grouping that has committed this kind of atrocity anywhere else in the UK.

4. In the case of this topic, there is only one group. Or are you privvy to information that the rest of us are not ? Just like the Bristol atrocity. It was only one group.

5. I am not trying to dodge or ignore anything. It is not relevant to this topic. As I have also stated, when a relevant topic appears, you will see my response. Until that time, keep making your wild assumptions.

[MJP]

The atrocities were carried out by criminals and paedos.

How religious are you?

I'm classified and categorised as a white Christian, but I'm not religious. Just because someone is categorised into a religious group by another group, it doesn't mean the individuals actually are religious.

Yes, there is a problem with Pakistani and Somali grooming gangs, that's widely recognised and accepted now. But whether religion has anything to do with this is tenuous at best.

MJP

Was that aimed at me ?

If it was. I am not religious, in fact if I was a God I would ban Religion. I have seen far too much death and destruction in the name of Religion.

Unfortunately MJP, it is not widely recognised. It has been institutionally ignored for decades. It has taken the case of Rotherham for it to become a subject that is no longer taboo. It would even be fair to say, that the Bristol case was silenced until they were actually committed for sentencing.

Where it has been widely recognised is within the general public. Who, very sadly, were branded racist for highlighting and reporting events carried out by certain communities.

I would also go as far as to say. That the only reason that these 2 cases have come to the fore, is because it COULD NOT be hidden.

It is a fact that I have said that both of these cases involved Muslims of both Pakistani and Somali origin. It is also a fact that I have never said they committed these atrocities purely on the basis that they are Muslims.

Just an observation really and I agree about religion, I'm no fan.

I think it is widely recognised and yet political correctness is the problem, not Islam. Islam's link to all this is at best tenuous. But political correctness has resulted in the ongoing suffering of thousands of children. Possibly hundreds of thousands when considering the Roman Catholic church. Again, this had little to do with religious people, they weren't, they were just nonces, but because of their standing in the community they were never challenged . . . again because of political correctness.

It's how we as people group and classify and categorise other people. Venn diagrams come to mind.

Paedophilia and political correctness are the evils in this regard.

[7by7]

You are saying that they committed their crimes because of their race and religion

No I did not. That is what you read in your blind rage.

Yes you did, the last time being

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

Are you now saying that you withdraw the above and now admit you were wrong?

Do you know accept that the religion of these men had nothing to do with their vile crime?

[JockPieandBeans]

You are saying that they committed their crimes because of their race and religion

No I did not. That is what you read in your blind rage.

Yes you did, the last time being

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

Are you now saying that you withdraw the above and now admit you were wrong?

Do you know accept that the religion of these men had nothing to do with their vile crime?

For the last time.

I said.

The atrocities that were carried out in Rotherham. Were carried out by Muslims of Pakistani origin.

The atrocities carried out in Bristol. Were carried out by Muslims of Somali Origin.

That is fact.

I did not say. They carried out these atrocities because they were Muslims.

Is that so difficult for you to understand ?

Try reading what it says, not what you think it says. If you can do that with a clear head you will understand the difference.

Edited November 29, 2014 by JockPieandBeans

[JockPieandBeans]

Just an observation really and I agree about religion, I'm no fan.

I think it is widely recognised and yet political correctness is the problem, not Islam. Islam's link to all this is at best tenuous. But political correctness has resulted in the ongoing suffering of thousands of children. Possibly hundreds of thousands when considering the Roman Catholic church. Again, this had little to do with religious people, they weren't, they were just nonces, but because of their standing in the community they were never challenged . . . again because of political correctness.

It's how we as people group and classify and categorise other people. Venn diagrams come to mind.

Paedophilia and political correctness are the evils in this regard.

Classify and Categorise and Venn diagrams !!

I trust what I see with my own eyes. Good or Bad, my eyes do not lie to me. It might not be PC, that is not my concern.

But I will agree with you. Peadophilia is a cancer. The PC & Liberal Brigades certainly have a lot to answer for. In this case however, I think a better term would be Political suppression.

[7by7]

Some quotes removed to comply with forum software

For the last time.

I said.

The atrocities that were carried out in Rotherham. Were carried out by Muslims of Pakistani origin.

The atrocities carried out in Bristol. Were carried out by Muslims of Somali Origin.

That is fact.

I did not say. They carried out these atrocities because they were Muslims.

Is that so difficult for you to understand ?

Try reading what it says, not what you think it says. If you can do that with a clear head you will understand the difference.

It's not what I think you said; it's what you clearly said!

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

So, I ask you one last time:

Are you now saying that you withdraw that, very firm, statement and now admit you were wrong?

Do you know accept that the religion of these men had nothing to do with their vile crime?

Or will you continue to deny that you said what is plainly there for all to see?

BTW, the reason why the Bristol case was not previously reported was not due to some PC plot, but because it was sub judice; as most of the reports have made clear.

[JockPieandBeans]

Some quotes removed to comply with forum software

For the last time.

I said.

The atrocities that were carried out in Rotherham. Were carried out by Muslims of Pakistani origin.

The atrocities carried out in Bristol. Were carried out by Muslims of Somali Origin.

That is fact.

I did not say. They carried out these atrocities because they were Muslims.

Is that so difficult for you to understand ?

Try reading what it says, not what you think it says. If you can do that with a clear head you will understand the difference.

It's not what I think you said; it's what you clearly said!

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

So, I ask you one last time:

Are you now saying that you withdraw that, very firm, statement and now admit you were wrong?

Do you know accept that the religion of these men had nothing to do with their vile crime?

Or will you continue to deny that you said what is plainly there for all to see?

BTW, the reason why the Bristol case was not previously reported was not due to some PC plot, but because it was sub judice; as most of the reports have made clear.

Are you so blinded that you now cannot read ?

You highlighted the text. Now try reading it again.

It says, quite clearly.

They carried out these atrocities because they were ****** of Muslim Pakistani Origin.

It does not say.

They carried out these atrocities because they are Pakistani ******* and are Muslims.

Pakistan might be 97% Muslim but it does have other religions.

And yet again. I will reiterate, just for you. I stand by that statement.

I will say it again, try reading what it says, not what you think it says.

[MJP]

[JockPieandBeans]

I said earlier that I feared this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Six men banned from contact with young girls after a council became the first to use civil injunctions to block child sexual exploitation can be named, a High Court judge has said.

Mr Justice Keehan said the names of Mohammed Anjam, 31, Omar Ahmed, 27, and Mohammed Javed, 34, could be revealed.

Alam Shah, 37, Sajid Hussain, 40, and Naseem Khan, 29, can also be named.

The council said the girl had been reported missing from care 102 times since July 2010 and it believed she had been "consistently sexually exploited".

There were 75 live criminal investigations at the moment into child exploitation in the West Midlands and a further 210 cases were being looked into, authorities said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-30114936

West Midlands Police said it was training 1,200 frontline staff to tackle exploitation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-30241996

1200 frontline staff. Dread to think what is going to come out of the Midlands.

[MJP]

^^I would call that 'widely acknowledged', at least by now.

The taxpayer funded parasites and hypocrites who made an industry out of political correctness need to be brought to book too for obstruction of justice.

Never again!