1400 children sexually exploited in UK town Rotherham: report

[nontabury]

^^I would call that 'widely acknowledged', at least by now.

The taxpayer funded parasites and hypocrites who made an industry out of political correctness need to be brought to book too for obstruction of justice.

Never again!

It is widely acknowledged except for those who prefer to keep their heads in the sand, including some on this forum. Unfortunately it is people such as these that is encourage the abuse to continue, all in the name of political correctness.

[simple1]

Reading the Rotherham report and media reports on convictions for sexual abuse, raises a query with me. Although some parents endeavoured to bring these matters to the attention of the police, there doesn't seem to be sufficient attention paid to the household/parental responsibilities. The Rotherham report does touch on dysfunctional families with a number of victims being in care facilities.

From the outside looking in it would appear many parents were also culpable of dereliction of duty of care - is this an offense in the UK or yet another form of PC by not being addressed.

It does appear that the sexual crimes committed were mostly against the children from a lower socio economic family background, what if any relevance does this have - is it debated within the UK?

[Mosha]

Reading the Rotherham report and media reports on convictions for sexual abuse, raises a query with me. Although some parents endeavoured to bring these matters to the attention of the police, there doesn't seem to be sufficient attention paid to the household/parental responsibilities. The Rotherham report does touch on dysfunctional families with a number of victims being in care facilities.

From the outside looking in it would appear many parents were also culpable of dereliction of duty of care - is this an offense in the UK or yet another form of PC by not being addressed.

It does appear that the sexual crimes committed were mostly against the children from a lower socio economic family background, what if any relevance does this have - is it debated within the UK?

In case you have forgotten early on in this thread and a link to the Daily Telegraph. Parents who tried to rescue their children from their abusers, were themselves threatened with arrest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057647/Rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-1400-children-exploited-by-Asian-gangs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

It's right next to the photo of the ex police commissioner Shaun Wright.

[simple1]

Reading the Rotherham report and media reports on convictions for sexual abuse, raises a query with me. Although some parents endeavoured to bring these matters to the attention of the police, there doesn't seem to be sufficient attention paid to the household/parental responsibilities. The Rotherham report does touch on dysfunctional families with a number of victims being in care facilities.

From the outside looking in it would appear many parents were also culpable of dereliction of duty of care - is this an offense in the UK or yet another form of PC by not being addressed.

It does appear that the sexual crimes committed were mostly against the children from a lower socio economic family background, what if any relevance does this have - is it debated within the UK?

In case you have forgotten early on in this thread and a link to the Daily Telegraph. Parents who tried to rescue their children from their abusers, were themselves threatened with arrest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057647/Rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-1400-children-exploited-by-Asian-gangs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

It's right next to the photo of the ex police commissioner Shaun Wright.

FYI I did PM a Mod with the content of my post to obtain feedback on whether it is appropriate to to open up the debate to other possible societal factors in the UK.

I have not forgotten at all about the police reaction. Why were the parents threathened with arrest? If you or I went to the police to report the abuse of our child what would be the likelihood of being threatened with arrest; zero? I find it really challenging to accept police reaction to specific complaints was solely driven by a PC culture. So what was going on? Other than the offenders, does it indicate a malise within segments of UK society?

[Mosha]

Reading the Rotherham report and media reports on convictions for sexual abuse, raises a query with me. Although some parents endeavoured to bring these matters to the attention of the police, there doesn't seem to be sufficient attention paid to the household/parental responsibilities. The Rotherham report does touch on dysfunctional families with a number of victims being in care facilities.

From the outside looking in it would appear many parents were also culpable of dereliction of duty of care - is this an offense in the UK or yet another form of PC by not being addressed.

It does appear that the sexual crimes committed were mostly against the children from a lower socio economic family background, what if any relevance does this have - is it debated within the UK?

In case you have forgotten early on in this thread and a link to the Daily Telegraph. Parents who tried to rescue their children from their abusers, were themselves threatened with arrest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057647/Rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-1400-children-exploited-by-Asian-gangs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

It's right next to the photo of the ex police commissioner Shaun Wright.

FYI I did PM a Mod with the content of my post to obtain feedback on whether it is appropriate to to open up the debate to other possible societal factors in the UK.

I have not forgotten at all about the police reaction. Why were the parents threathened with arrest? If you or I went to the police to report the abuse of our child what would be the likelihood of being threatened with arrest; zero? I find it really challenging to accept police reaction to specific complaints was solely driven by a PC culture. So what was going on? Other than the offenders, does it indicate a malise within segments of UK society?

In my later years in Dewsbury mid 90s a bit North of Rotherham, any one making a complaint of any sort against the muslim majority population was told "Please don't raise a fuss". The local paper used to report as such until the Yorkshire Post owners of the Dewsbury Reporter told them to back off. As a Tyke (Yorkshire native) I'm surprised good hidings were not handed out.

[JockPieandBeans]

FYI I did PM a Mod with the content of my post to obtain feedback on whether it is appropriate to to open up the debate to other possible societal factors in the UK.

I have not forgotten at all about the police reaction. Why were the parents threathened with arrest? If you or I went to the police to report the abuse of our child what would be the likelihood of being threatened with arrest; zero? I find it really challenging to accept police reaction to specific complaints was solely driven by a PC culture. So what was going on? Other than the offenders, does it indicate a malise within segments of UK society?

Simple 1.

It is very easy to lay blame at the door of the frontlime services. By that, I mean the beat cops, the social workers etc.

If you take the time to do some serious research, it very quickly becomes apparent, how and where this culture came from from.

It came from the very top. The Government. That's why I called it Government Suppression in a reply to a mod on this thread.

Yes, the PC & Liberal Brigades have a lot to answer for.

The Governments desperation to ram the ethos of " Multiculturalism " down the throats of the General Public has caused this mess.

The mess is so great, that it is now no longer called " Multiculturalism " It is now called Multiple Racial Democracy.

As per Cameron.

I am extremely proud that together we have built successful multiple-racial democracy.

http://news.sky.com/story/1382012/cameron-sets-out-eu-migrant-crackdown-plans

That's what happens when you get numbskulls, who no nothing about anything running Countries.

[7by7]

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

So, I ask you one last time:

Are you now saying that you withdraw that, very firm, statement and now admit you were wrong?

Do you know accept that the religion of these men had nothing to do with their vile crime?

Or will you continue to deny that you said what is plainly there for all to see?

Are you so blinded that you now cannot read ?

You highlighted the text. Now try reading it again.

It says, quite clearly.

They carried out these atrocities because they were ****** of Muslim Pakistani Origin.

It does not say.

They carried out these atrocities because they are Pakistani ******* and are Muslims.

Pakistan might be 97% Muslim but it does have other religions.

And yet again. I will reiterate, just for you. I stand by that statement.

I will say it again, try reading what it says, not what you think it says.

Yes, you are indeed yet again making a feeble attempt to deny what is plainly there for all to see!

Either that or your English ability leaves a lot to be desired!

[7by7]

Reading the Rotherham report and media reports on convictions for sexual abuse, raises a query with me. Although some parents endeavoured to bring these matters to the attention of the police, there doesn't seem to be sufficient attention paid to the household/parental responsibilities. The Rotherham report does touch on dysfunctional families with a number of victims being in care facilities.

From the outside looking in it would appear many parents were also culpable of dereliction of duty of care - is this an offense in the UK or yet another form of PC by not being addressed.

It does appear that the sexual crimes committed were mostly against the children from a lower socio economic family background, what if any relevance does this have - is it debated within the UK?

In case you have forgotten early on in this thread and a link to the Daily Telegraph. Parents who tried to rescue their children from their abusers, were themselves threatened with arrest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057647/Rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-1400-children-exploited-by-Asian-gangs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

It's right next to the photo of the ex police commissioner Shaun Wright.

A handful of parents did try, and were rebuffed by the police and authorities; which was an appalling response.

Nothing can excuse the actions of the vile perpetrators of this crime and the inaction of the police and social services; although some here will doubtless say that I am attempting to do so.

But we are talking about 1400 plus children.

Where were the rest of the parents?

Why did they do nothing?

Did they not know what their children were suffering?

[JockPieandBeans]

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

So, I ask you one last time:

Are you now saying that you withdraw that, very firm, statement and now admit you were wrong?

Do you know accept that the religion of these men had nothing to do with their vile crime?

Or will you continue to deny that you said what is plainly there for all to see?

Are you so blinded that you now cannot read ?

You highlighted the text. Now try reading it again.

It says, quite clearly.

They carried out these atrocities because they were ****** of Muslim Pakistani Origin.

It does not say.

They carried out these atrocities because they are Pakistani ******* and are Muslims.

Pakistan might be 97% Muslim but it does have other religions.

And yet again. I will reiterate, just for you. I stand by that statement.

I will say it again, try reading what it says, not what you think it says.

Yes, you are indeed yet again making a feeble attempt to deny what is plainly there for all to see!

Either that or your English ability leaves a lot to be desired!

There is no feeble attempt at anything.

Try having a look at your own level of English.

[7by7]

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

From the OED

Definition of because in English:

conjunction

1For the reason that; since:

‘we did it because we felt it our duty’

‘just because I’m inexperienced doesn’t mean that I lack perception’

QED

[JockPieandBeans]

Ok, clearly you cannot grasp the difference in the 2 sentences. I will leave it that.

Try this one.

On this thread, there is Rotherham, Bristol and now the Midlands.

Have a stab in the dark as to what the common denominator is ?

[Mosha]

Reading the Rotherham report and media reports on convictions for sexual abuse, raises a query with me. Although some parents endeavoured to bring these matters to the attention of the police, there doesn't seem to be sufficient attention paid to the household/parental responsibilities. The Rotherham report does touch on dysfunctional families with a number of victims being in care facilities.

From the outside looking in it would appear many parents were also culpable of dereliction of duty of care - is this an offense in the UK or yet another form of PC by not being addressed.

It does appear that the sexual crimes committed were mostly against the children from a lower socio economic family background, what if any relevance does this have - is it debated within the UK?

In case you have forgotten early on in this thread and a link to the Daily Telegraph. Parents who tried to rescue their children from their abusers, were themselves threatened with arrest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057647/Rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-1400-children-exploited-by-Asian-gangs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

It's right next to the photo of the ex police commissioner Shaun Wright.

A handful of parents did try, and were rebuffed by the police and authorities; which was an appalling response.

Nothing can excuse the actions of the vile perpetrators of this crime and the inaction of the police and social services; although some here will doubtless say that I am attempting to do so.

But we are talking about 1400 plus children.

Where were the rest of the parents?

Why did they do nothing?

Did they not know what their children were suffering?

Word gets around. The police don't want to know, make no wonder they were called pigs when I was young. They deserved it.

[7by7]

These despicable men were opportunists; they took advantage of vulnerable girls who were in the wrong places at the wrong times; usually late at night.

The question has to be asked; why were the girls there?

How could whoever was in charge of their care, parent or children's home, have allowed them to be there?

When my sister and I were children in the 1960's the world was a more innocent place; though this crime did go on and we were warned never to talk to strangers and certainly never go anywhere or get into a car with them. We also, even up to our mid teens, had to be home by dark. even later, we had to say where we were going and when we'd be back.

When my daughter was that age there is no way that either my wife or I would have allowed her to wander the streets alone or even with her friends at that time of night.

I cannot see how any responsible parent would.

If she was going somewhere; a friends house, the cinema etc. I'd drive her there and pick her up afterwards.

I cannot see how any responsible parent would not do the same. Even if they had no car, then meet them and come back with them; don't just give them the bus or taxi fare.

The following are just two examples, the first from 2004, the other from November 2014, that not every parent can be classed as responsible; indeed, the opposite.

Holiday mother jailed for leaving children 'home alone'

A 34-year-old woman has been jailed for six months for leaving her two children at home while she went on holiday to Spain with her boyfriend.

Birmingham mother left children home alone to fly to Australia

A mother-of-six who flew to Australia for six weeks after telling her son she was going to the supermarket has been given a suspended jail sentence.

None of which, of course, in any way excuses the actions of the predators; but it has to be said that if the girls were not there, they would not have become victims.

These men would probably have found other victims; but would it have been so many?

[7by7]

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

Ok, clearly you cannot grasp the difference in the 2 sentences. I will leave it that.

Try this one.

On this thread, there is Rotherham, Bristol and now the Midlands.

Have a stab in the dark as to what the common denominator is ?

OK, I get it.

You are not man enough to either stand by your original statement or admit that you were wrong.

Instead you are squirming and writhing in a feeble attempt to do both!

How sad.

[NeverSure]

These despicable men were opportunists; they took advantage of vulnerable girls who were in the wrong places at the wrong times; usually late at night.

The question has to be asked; why were the girls there?

How could whoever was in charge of their care, parent or children's home, have allowed them to be there?

When my sister and I were children in the 1960's the world was a more innocent place; though this crime did go on and we were warned never to talk to strangers and certainly never go anywhere or get into a car with them. We also, even up to our mid teens, had to be home by dark. even later, we had to say where we were going and when we'd be back.

When my daughter was that age there is no way that either my wife or I would have allowed her to wander the streets alone or even with her friends at that time of night.

I cannot see how any responsible parent would.

If she was going somewhere; a friends house, the cinema etc. I'd drive her there and pick her up afterwards.

I cannot see how any responsible parent would not do the same. Even if they had no car, then meet them and come back with them; don't just give them the bus or taxi fare.

The following are just two examples, the first from 2004, the other from November 2014, that not every parent can be classed as responsible; indeed, the opposite.

Holiday mother jailed for leaving children 'home alone'

A 34-year-old woman has been jailed for six months for leaving her two children at home while she went on holiday to Spain with her boyfriend.

Birmingham mother left children home alone to fly to Australia

A mother-of-six who flew to Australia for six weeks after telling her son she was going to the supermarket has been given a suspended jail sentence.

None of which, of course, in any way excuses the actions of the predators; but it has to be said that if the girls were not there, they would not have become victims.

These men would probably have found other victims; but would it have been so many?

"...but it has to be said that if the girls were not there, they would not have become victims."

I think you've been in Thailand too long, LOL. That's clearly Thai thinking.

That statement is outrageous. I live in a neighborhood where the kids play outside after dark and all of the neighbors would look after them. If someone abused one of the kids the blame would go straight to the perp who would go straight to prison and be branded for life.

You really could stop being an apologist for pedophiles. Blaming it on parents, police, society, government etc. might make for a nice waste of server space, but it doesn't get to the real reason which is that there are criminals out there and lots of them.

So let's turn it back and just say that if the Muslims in the area weren't there, it wouldn't have happened.

[JockPieandBeans]

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

Ok, clearly you cannot grasp the difference in the 2 sentences. I will leave it that.

Try this one.

On this thread, there is Rotherham, Bristol and now the Midlands.

Have a stab in the dark as to what the common denominator is ?

OK, I get it.

You are not man enough to either stand by your original statement or admit that you were wrong.

Instead you are squirming and writhing in a feeble attempt to do both!

How sad.

You get nothing.

I stand by what I said. These atrocities were carried out by Muslims of both Pakistani and Somali origin.

I do not need to squirm about anything.

No stab in the dark about the common denominator ?

If you want to see sad, look in a mirror.

These despicable men were opportunists; they took advantage of vulnerable girls who were in the wrong places at the wrong times; usually late at night.

The question has to be asked; why were the girls there?

How could whoever was in charge of their care, parent or children's home, have allowed them to be there?

No, they were not opportunists. These were well planned and orchestrated atrocities.

It does not matter why they were there. That looks like a pathetic attempt to shift the blame.

I could be wrong, but I would wager that their ' Yuman Rights " to do what they wanted were far more important than what parents thought.

Its not the 60's or 70's anymore. Times change, Something that seems to have passed you by.

[7by7]

These despicable men were opportunists; they took advantage of vulnerable girls who were in the wrong places at the wrong times; usually late at night.

The question has to be asked; why were the girls there?

How could whoever was in charge of their care, parent or children's home, have allowed them to be there?

When my sister and I were children in the 1960's the world was a more innocent place; though this crime did go on and we were warned never to talk to strangers and certainly never go anywhere or get into a car with them. We also, even up to our mid teens, had to be home by dark. even later, we had to say where we were going and when we'd be back.

When my daughter was that age there is no way that either my wife or I would have allowed her to wander the streets alone or even with her friends at that time of night.

I cannot see how any responsible parent would.

If she was going somewhere; a friends house, the cinema etc. I'd drive her there and pick her up afterwards.

I cannot see how any responsible parent would not do the same. Even if they had no car, then meet them and come back with them; don't just give them the bus or taxi fare.

The following are just two examples, the first from 2004, the other from November 2014, that not every parent can be classed as responsible; indeed, the opposite.

Holiday mother jailed for leaving children 'home alone'

A 34-year-old woman has been jailed for six months for leaving her two children at home while she went on holiday to Spain with her boyfriend.

Birmingham mother left children home alone to fly to Australia

A mother-of-six who flew to Australia for six weeks after telling her son she was going to the supermarket has been given a suspended jail sentence.

None of which, of course, in any way excuses the actions of the predators; but it has to be said that if the girls were not there, they would not have become victims.

These men would probably have found other victims; but would it have been so many?

"...but it has to be said that if the girls were not there, they would not have become victims."

I think you've been in Thailand too long, LOL. That's clearly Thai thinking.

That statement is outrageous. I live in a neighborhood where the kids play outside after dark and all of the neighbors would look after them. If someone abused one of the kids the blame would go straight to the perp who would go straight to prison and be branded for life.

You really could stop being an apologist for pedophiles. Blaming it on parents, police, society, government etc. might make for a nice waste of server space, but it doesn't get to the real reason which is that there are criminals out there and lots of them.

So let's turn it back and just say that if the Muslims in the area weren't there, it wouldn't have happened.

I am, unlike many who post on this topic, not in Thailand; I live in the UK.

So you think it's OK to let vulnerable girls wander around the streets late at night alone. NOT play in a safe neighbourhood where everyone looks after them in the evening, but wander around alone late at night?

I don't.

Yet again I am being accused of being an apologist for paedophiles; so yet again I ask that you produce something I have posted which even remotely justifies this statement. I ask in the certain knowledge that you and I both know that you can't do so.

yes, if the predatory paedophiles weren't there, it wouldn't have happened. That they were Muslims is irrelevant.

You talk about safe neighbourhoods for kids to play on the streets. Where I live there is one neighbourhood where I would definitely not let any child go after dark; and it's 99% white!

The area where most of the Muslims live is a lot safer for children.

But no responsible parent should allow their child to wander around the streets anywhere late at night; surely you must agree?

Note to JPB;

Keep squirming; nobody's fooled.

Edited November 30, 2014 by 7by7

[JockPieandBeans]

Keep squirming; nobody's fooled.

I do not need to squirm.

2 different posters. Both pointing out that you sound just like an apologist.

So you think it's OK to let vulnerable girls wander around the streets late at night alone. NOT play in a safe neighbourhood where everyone looks after them in the evening, but wander around alone late at night.

You will find that at lot of these atrocities were carried out in daylight.

Try and educate yourself.

[NeverSure]

These despicable men were opportunists; they took advantage of vulnerable girls who were in the wrong places at the wrong times; usually late at night.

-snip-

"...but it has to be said that if the girls were not there, they would not have become victims."

I think you've been in Thailand too long, LOL. That's clearly Thai thinking.

That statement is outrageous. I live in a neighborhood where the kids play outside after dark and all of the neighbors would look after them. If someone abused one of the kids the blame would go straight to the perp who would go straight to prison and be branded for life.

You really could stop being an apologist for pedophiles. Blaming it on parents, police, society, government etc. might make for a nice waste of server space, but it doesn't get to the real reason which is that there are criminals out there and lots of them.

So let's turn it back and just say that if the Muslims in the area weren't there, it wouldn't have happened.

I am, unlike many who post on this topic, not in Thailand; I live in the UK.

So you think it's OK to let vulnerable girls wander around the streets late at night alone. NOT play in a safe neighbourhood where everyone looks after them in the evening, but wander around alone late at night?

I don't.

Yet again I am being accused of being an apologist for paedophiles; so yet again I ask that you produce something I have posted which even remotely justifies this statement. I ask in the certain knowledge that you and I both know that you can't do so.

yes, if the predatory paedophiles weren't there, it wouldn't have happened. That they were Muslims is irrelevant.

You talk about safe neighbourhoods for kids to play on the streets. Where I live there is one neighbourhood where I would definitely not let any child go after dark; and it's 99% white!

The area where most of the Muslims live is a lot safer for children.

But no responsible parent should allow their child to wander around the streets anywhere late at night; surely you must agree?

Note to JPB;

Keep squirming; nobody's fooled.

Oh no, you're not an apologist. You only said that if the children weren't there it wouldn't have happened.

You said the perps were opportunists, that the GIRLS were in the wrong place.

I say that if the Muslim pedophiles weren't there it wouldn't have happened.

Good and responsible men DON'T take advantage of such "opportunities."

And there we part ways.

[MJP]

If we all really took the gloves off on this thread, the reality of life in the UK for so many would become apparent and the deep seated reasons for it.

It's too easy to blame this on Islam.

It's about poverty and the collapse of British industry creating vast swathes of hopelessness, it's about the welfare state and enabling people who should never have been parents have children, it's about the wicked, all pervasive industry of political correctness to further the interests of the political elite, it's about blind eyes and turning away from the most vulnerable in what's left of society, it's about uncontrolled immigration, it's about human trafficking . . . it's about all those evils we don't want to admit are all around us.

That, in my opinion, is the reality.

[JockPieandBeans]

If we all really took the gloves off on this thread, the reality of life in the UK for so many would become apparent and the deep seated reasons for it.

It's too easy to blame this on Islam.

It's about poverty and the collapse of British industry creating vast swathes of hopelessness, it's about the welfare state and enabling people who should never have been parents have children, it's about the wicked, all pervasive industry of political correctness to further the interests of the political elite, it's about blind eyes and turning away from the most vulnerable in what's left of society, it's about uncontrolled immigration, it's about human trafficking . . . it's about all those evils we don't want to admit are all around us.

That, in my opinion, is the reality.

Now aint that the truth.

The reality of life in the UK is plain for all to see. If they want to see it that is.

Some have the good fortune to escape it. Sadly others, will be stuck with it for the rest of their lives.

The fault lies squarely with successive Governments over the last 5 decades. can they fix it ? Not a chance in hell. Which does not bode well for the future.

I for one, do not blame Islam for all the ills in the UK. Having said that, it is my opinion, that Islam and what could be considered the British way of life, cannot live side by side. They are incompatible.

Your opinion, in my opinion, hits the reality nail squarely on the head.

[simple1]

If we all really took the gloves off on this thread, the reality of life in the UK for so many would become apparent and the deep seated reasons for it.

It's too easy to blame this on Islam.

It's about poverty and the collapse of British industry creating vast swathes of hopelessness, it's about the welfare state and enabling people who should never have been parents have children, it's about the wicked, all pervasive industry of political correctness to further the interests of the political elite, it's about blind eyes and turning away from the most vulnerable in what's left of society, it's about uncontrolled immigration, it's about human trafficking . . . it's about all those evils we don't want to admit are all around us.

That, in my opinion, is the reality.

Now aint that the truth.

The reality of life in the UK is plain for all to see. If they want to see it that is.

Some have the good fortune to escape it. Sadly others, will be stuck with it for the rest of their lives.

The fault lies squarely with successive Governments over the last 5 decades. can they fix it ? Not a chance in hell. Which does not bode well for the future.

I for one, do not blame Islam for all the ills in the UK. Having said that, it is my opinion, that Islam and what could be considered the British way of life, cannot live side by side. They are incompatible.

Your opinion, in my opinion, hits the reality nail squarely on the head.

I'm really trying to get this conversation to open up & MJP went some of the way by touching on issues of entrenched poverty, attitudes within government agencies and so on. Also 7x7 is righ, from my reading, many victims were going out night after night taking drugs, alcohol & so on - where was the parental invention, how come so many were in care?

Yes offenders in Rotherham and elsewhere come from a Muslim background. Given their use of alcohol etc very questionable if they viewed themselves as practising Muslims / their crimes are against Islamic Law, so IMO common criminals. There again the larger majority of child sex abuse crimes, child trafficking, child pornography offences are committed in the UK those with a non-Muslim background in the UK

Edited November 30, 2014 by simple1

[JockPieandBeans]

I'm really trying to get this conversation to open up & MJP went some of the way by touching on issues of entrenched poverty, attitudes within government agencies and so on. Also 7x7 is righ, from my reading, many victims were going out night after night taking drugs, alcohol & so on - where was the parental invention, how come so many were in care?

Yes offenders in Rotherham and elsewhere come from a Muslim background. Given their use of alcohol etc very questionable if they viewed themselves as practising Muslims / their crimes are against Islamic Law, so IMO common criminals. There again the larger majority of child sex abuse crimes, child trafficking, child pornography offences are committed in the UK those with a non-Muslim background in the UK

Simple 1

The problem with trying to open up the topic for wider debate, is that it would soon go off topic. MJP quite rightly highlighted a lot of the problems that the UK is suffering from.

The abuse took place at night and also during the daytime. Alcohol and drugs may well be against islamic Law. However it should be noted that Alcohol, Drugs and Sex to a certain extent have been used for Centuries as a way of controlling people. These were used extensively by the Japanese for Samurai Warriors. There is nothing new in this.

As far as parental intervention is concerned. The PC & Liberal Brigades have a lot to answer for, That aside. There is a group of people, born from about the mid 70's onwards, that have grew up with nothing more than " I'm entitled " attitude. Who done nothing more than pop out brats because it got them bigger houses and more money in benefits. It is this groups children, in some cases grandchildren, that are being abused. They were popping out kids, not because they were wanted, just a means to an end to get more benefits. The kids welfare was not there concern.

Whether those that carried out these atrocities see themselves as practicing Muslims or not, only they will know. However, let is not kid ourselves on here. Muslims DO use drugs and alcohol, frequently. And perhaps one of the reasons that people get on their high horse about Muslims is the rank hypocrisy of that religion. It could also be argued, that as they were plying non Muslims with drugs and alcohol, perhaps not indulging themselves, that they were not breaking Islamic Law. I do not know as I wasnt there, but it is still a possibility.

There again the larger majority of child sex abuse crimes, child trafficking, child pornography offences are committed in the UK those with a non-Muslim background in the UK

I wont argue the point or ask you to provide links to back up your assertion. I will say this. It is perfectly sensible to suspect that in a largely Christian Country, the majority of crimes would be committed by Christians. Sadly that is not the case, the links have been provided earlier in this thread. As it is now recognised and accepted that many crimes committed by the Muslim Community have been hushed up, covered up, not reported or just simply ignored over the last couple of decades. The official crime stats are useless. Now that this particular jack in the box is open. I dread to think what will be exposed over the next couple of years.

It is also fair to say, that sex crimes in the UK are indeed committed by members of every Nationality and Religion. What does not seem to be replicated anywhere else is the MO employed in Rotherham, Bristol and now in the Midlands.

Whether these people are practising Muslims or not, up and down the Country they are employing the same MO. So where is that MO coming from ? It is either coming from Mosques or a direct interpretation of the Qu'ran. The only other explanation is that it is a huge network of Muslim Peado's spread throughout the Country. Come to your own conclusion.

[7by7]

Whether these people are practising Muslims or not, up and down the Country they are employing the same MO. So where is that MO coming from ? It is either coming from Mosques or a direct interpretation of the Qu'ran. The only other explanation is that it is a huge network of Muslim Peado's spread throughout the Country. Come to your own conclusion.

To say that these men are following a MO spread throughout the UK by mosques is as ridiculous as saying that the Catholic abusers of children in their care were being instructed on how to do so by the Vatican!

If they were following an interpretation of the Koran it was a twisted and perverted one. Numerous Muslim leaders and scholars have condemned these men and their abuse of children as unIslamic. The links to this condemnation were provided much earlier in this topic, as was discussion of it, for those who care to look. I have no intention of repeating that discussion yet again.

It is well known to anyone who cares to look that both paedophile rings and individual paedophiles very often use the same MO; identify and target vulnerable children; make them feel special; start the abuse. Although these days more and more are doing so online rather than by targeting children in specific areas; as these men did.

This is the case regardless of the religion, or lack of it, of the offenders.

I am not, as some have asserted, trying to excuse or act as an apologist for paedophiles. If they had been unable to target these particular girls they would have doubtless found others. But if the girls had not been in that vulnerable position, then the paedophiles would have found it harder to find victims.

To say otherwise is as blind as saying that a lock on your front door is a waste of time as burglars could still break in.

Vulnerable children need protecting; if these girls had received the protection they needed, whether from their family or from social services, then I am sure there would have been far fewer victims in this and similar cases.

Saying that does not, of course, mean I am in any way excusing the foul actions of these men, nor attempting to act as an apologist for them; despite what some may think.

[JockPieandBeans]

Whether these people are practising Muslims or not, up and down the Country they are employing the same MO. So where is that MO coming from ? It is either coming from Mosques or a direct interpretation of the Qu'ran. The only other explanation is that it is a huge network of Muslim Peado's spread throughout the Country. Come to your own conclusion.

To say that these men are following a MO spread throughout the UK by mosques is as ridiculous as saying that the Catholic abusers of children in their care were being instructed on how to do so by the Vatican!

If they were following an interpretation of the Koran it was a twisted and perverted one. Numerous Muslim leaders and scholars have condemned these men and their abuse of children as unIslamic. The links to this condemnation were provided much earlier in this topic, as was discussion of it, for those who care to look. I have no intention of repeating that discussion yet again.

It is well known to anyone who cares to look that both paedophile rings and individual paedophiles very often use the same MO; identify and target vulnerable children; make them feel special; start the abuse. Although these days more and more are doing so online rather than by targeting children in specific areas; as these men did.

This is the case regardless of the religion, or lack of it, of the offenders.

I am not, as some have asserted, trying to excuse or act as an apologist for paedophiles. If they had been unable to target these particular girls they would have doubtless found others. But if the girls had not been in that vulnerable position, then the paedophiles would have found it harder to find victims.

To say otherwise is as blind as saying that a lock on your front door is a waste of time as burglars could still break in.

Vulnerable children need protecting; if these girls had received the protection they needed, whether from their family or from social services, then I am sure there would have been far fewer victims in this and similar cases.

Saying that does not, of course, mean I am in any way excusing the foul actions of these men, nor attempting to act as an apologist for them; despite what some may think.

A typical response. Look at 1 small part of my post.

So I will reciprocate.

Vulnerable children need protecting; if these girls had received the protection they needed, whether from their family or from social services, then I am sure there would have been far fewer victims in this and similar cases.

How many times was this reported and denied by various agencies. If agencies had not been so fcukin scared of repercussions from the Liberal & PC Brigades something might have been done.

Provide a link of the hordes of other gangs that have carried out the same atrocities in the last 10 tears.

Saying that does not, of course, mean I am in any way excusing the foul actions of these men, nor attempting to act as an apologist for them; despite what some may think.

If you have to come out with a statement like that, it says everything.

I will not bother with the rest of your post.

As was highlighted yesterday. You are nothing more than an apologist, who denies, deflects and ignores.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JockPieandBeans

[7by7]

A typical response. Look at 1 small part of my post.

So I will reciprocate.

Vulnerable children need protecting; if these girls had received the protection they needed, whether from their family or from social services, then I am sure there would have been far fewer victims in this and similar cases.

How many times was this reported and denied by various agencies. If agencies had not been so fcukin scared of repercussions from the Liberal & PC Brigades something might have been done.

I quoted the part of your post I wished to respond to; as you have done to me and others many times; as do all of us. It saves bandwidth and is less confusing that multiple nested quotes.

I didn't respond to your comments on people pushing out babies in order to claim more and more benefits as, you may be surprised to hear, I actually agree with you on that point!

As for the part of my post you have quoted and responded to; if you were not so hell bent on nay saying everything I post, you would see that we are essentially saying the same thing!

I have also said as much many times previously!

Reports of grooming gangs have appeared with dreadful regularity: from all sectors of society and all races and religions. I'm about to leave for work, so will find and post some links tomorrow.

Yet again, you ignore 99% of what I have written and fall back on the tired old flame "You are nothing more than an apologist, who denies, deflects and ignores."

I would suggest that you go back over all my posts in this topic, but you have already shown that you are either incapable of understanding what I have written or, more likely, refuse to do so as it conflicts with your entrenched prejudices.

[JockPieandBeans]

I would suggest that you go back over all my posts in this topic, but you have already shown that you are either incapable of understanding what I have written or, more likely, refuse to do so as it conflicts with your entrenched prejudices.

What prejudice would that be ?

I will admit I will never be PC but that does not make me prejudiced.

[7by7]

<snip>

Provide a link of the hordes of other gangs that have carried out the same atrocities in the last 10 tears.

<snip>

Reports of grooming gangs have appeared with dreadful regularity: from all sectors of society and all races and religions. I'm about to leave for work, so will find and post some links tomorrow.

There's this one: Grooming gangs; what we know about the perpetrators and victims.

It found that 36% of perpetrators of gang or group related sexual violence were white, 27% were asian, and 16% were of an undisclosed ethnicity. The majority of child victims of gang or group related sexual violence (60%) were recorded as “white”, with unknown making up the second largest category at 14%.

This one sums it up nicely: FactCheck: what do we know about the grooming gangs?; although, as they say, it is an incomplete snapshot of the data.

Of 52 groups where ethnicity data was provided, 26 (50 per cent) comprised all Asian offenders, 11 (21 per cent) were all white, 9 (17 per cent) groups had offenders from multiple ethnicities, 4 (8 per cent) were all black offenders and there were 2 (4 per cent) exclusively Arab groups.

Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was noted, 75 per cent were categorised as Asian, 17 per cent white, and the remaining 8 per cent black (5 per cent) or Arab (3 per cent).

By contrast, the seven “Type 2 groups” – paedophile rings rather than grooming gangs – “were reported as exclusively of white ethnicity”.

You will no doubt leap upon the fact that the Asian men are disproportionately represented; which is something I have never denied and something which an earlier link of mine went some way towards explaining.

But the figures show that this terrible crime is not exclusively committed by Asians or Muslims.

Indeed, most paedophiles are not in grooming gangs but acting individually; usually abusing a family member or someone known to them already; and the vast majority of them are white non Muslims.

[7by7]

I would suggest that you go back over all my posts in this topic, but you have already shown that you are either incapable of understanding what I have written or, more likely, refuse to do so as it conflicts with your entrenched prejudices.

What prejudice would that be ?

I will admit I will never be PC but that does not make me prejudiced.

Being anti PC is not being prejudiced; in many ways it's being sensible!

But comments like

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

with zero evidence to back it up are clearly based on nothing but prejudice.

[JockPieandBeans]

I said they carried out these atrocities because the were animals of Muslim Pakistani origin. I stand by that statement.

(7by7 emphasis)

with zero evidence to back it up are clearly based on nothing but prejudice.

Does court cases, jail sentences and a sh!tload of Official Enquiries not constitute evidence ?

I think the one who is prejudiced is clear for all to see.