Should Moyes have been given more time?

[carmine]

its a funny old game............

[mrbojangles]

Yes and No.

Yes because he was good comedy value for non United fans

and

No because this fella is even better comedy value

[carmine]

PeterMik was clearly a visionary.

Actually, i don't know what funnier. remembering wee Davy on the touchline like a rabbit in the headlights or the incredibly arrogant van Gaal looking forlorn on the bench and probably being reminded of his ridiculous comments about going a season undefeated........you couldn't write!!

btw, what is this new philosophy....trying to put square pegs in round holes and demanding your players make little or no effort to win against third rate opposition?

[mrtoad]

The Obsession continues with Spurs fans, but given they haven't won the league in over 50 years, it's understandable .

I was actually thinking about this, and it goes deeper than what it appears. Last year was the time where the rot set in, appointing Moyes, getting rid of the back room staff, comical transfer window and basically changing the culture of the club over a very quick period. My own feeling is that the players , were no longer bothered, and didn't respect the manager (it was the wrong appointment). That culture is still there, and needs to be cleaned out. Changing that culture which had crept in, of complacency and lack of passion will take time to change. There is no point hitting the panic button about the manager, he has been there, done it and got the T-Shirt. He's had poor starts at other clubs. Some of the performances by certain players though are unacceptable, and the sooner they are got out of the club the better. Many of them seem to think they have "made it", after having 20 or 30 Man Utd Appearances, well time for them to wake up - people like Giggs, Beckham, Neville etc kept on performing throughout their careers. People like Anderson, Cleverley, Smalling, Young,Evans, Henrnandez seem to be in some sort of delusional thought that having one good season and potential is enough.

All can enjoy the comedy at the present, if the same stuff is happening at the end of the season then the problems are even worse. 3 games in, big deal.

[meatboy]

The Obsession continues with Spurs fans, but given they haven't won the league in over 50 years, it's understandable .

I was actually thinking about this, and it goes deeper than what it appears. Last year was the time where the rot set in, appointing Moyes, getting rid of the back room staff, comical transfer window and basically changing the culture of the club over a very quick period. My own feeling is that the players , were no longer bothered, and didn't respect the manager (it was the wrong appointment). That culture is still there, and needs to be cleaned out. Changing that culture which had crept in, of complacency and lack of passion will take time to change. There is no point hitting the panic button about the manager, he has been there, done it and got the T-Shirt. He's had poor starts at other clubs. Some of the performances by certain players though are unacceptable, and the sooner they are got out of the club the better. Many of them seem to think they have "made it", after having 20 or 30 Man Utd Appearances, well time for them to wake up - people like Giggs, Beckham, Neville etc kept on performing throughout their careers. People like Anderson, Cleverley, Smalling, Young,Evans, Henrnandez seem to be in some sort of delusional thought that having one good season and potential is enough.

All can enjoy the comedy at the present, if the same stuff is happening at the end of the season then the problems are even worse. 3 games in, big deal.

mr.t.you've hit the nail on the head,for me the manager and gigs cant be blamed for what went on last night,

just look at the 3 or was it the 4th,four man.u.players on to one mkd.player who nearly fell over twice and still not one of them got a tackle in,that say's it all GET SHOT OF THEM.

[carmine]

spurs fans are not obsessed with United. we just have a sense of humor and we love comedy. united are providing it. in abundance.

[jellydog]

[SantiSuk]

So what kind of payoff is LVG up for?

Man U rapidly proving to be a solid mark as a football managers' early retirement FOTTS programme*

Starting to feel sorry for genuine long-run Man U fans but you couldn't wish for a better-deserved outcome for the Glazers

* ^^^^-off to the sun

[nev]

Moyes was the start of the rot, getting rid of the backroom staff and getting rid of 3 experienced central defenders has cost us big time,and no way should he have been given more time.

[smokie36]

Moyes was the start of the rot, getting rid of the backroom staff and getting rid of 3 experienced central defenders has cost us big time,and no way should he have been given more time.

I also think this rebuilding of the team is twelve months too late.

Gawd knows what the chairman was doing last summer.....no wait....he had just been appointed.

So there is the start of the rot.....with a new manager and backroom staff coming in how smart was it to have a change of chairman too?

Bit stinky the whole affair last summer if you are a Man Who? fan.......comedy gold for the rest of us....and the show goes on......!

[petermik]

spurs fans are not obsessed with United. we just have a sense of humor and we love comedy. united are providing it. in abundance.

"we just have a sense of humor and we love comedy" you can say that again after following a team that has spent the past 50 years in the wilderness

[carmine]

spurs fans are not obsessed with United. we just have a sense of humor and we love comedy. united are providing it. in abundance.

"we just have a sense of humor and we love comedy" you can say that again after following a team that has spent the past 50 years in the wilderness

Obviously you are forgetting those FA cup wins and that UEFA cup win. Never mind. Whatever makes you happy on the day after your teams most humiliating defeat in the last 50 years!

I suppose you think Moyes should still be in charge or do you now see the guy was hopelessly out of his depth?

Edited August 27, 2014 by carmine

[jellydog]

The dictator leaves and everything goes to hell. You see it in countries all the time.

[smokie36]

The dictator leaves and everything goes to hell. You see it in countries all the time.

Galtieri for manager!

Oh no wait...they have his brother already.....

[oldgit]

The Obsession continues with Spurs fans, but given they haven't won the league in over 50 years, it's understandable .

I was actually thinking about this, and it goes deeper than what it appears. Last year was the time where the rot set in, appointing Moyes, getting rid of the back room staff, comical transfer window and basically changing the culture of the club over a very quick period. My own feeling is that the players , were no longer bothered, and didn't respect the manager (it was the wrong appointment). That culture is still there, and needs to be cleaned out. Changing that culture which had crept in, of complacency and lack of passion will take time to change. There is no point hitting the panic button about the manager, he has been there, done it and got the T-Shirt. He's had poor starts at other clubs. Some of the performances by certain players though are unacceptable, and the sooner they are got out of the club the better. Many of them seem to think they have "made it", after having 20 or 30 Man Utd Appearances, well time for them to wake up - people like Giggs, Beckham, Neville etc kept on performing throughout their careers. People like Anderson, Cleverley, Smalling, Young,Evans, Henrnandez seem to be in some sort of delusional thought that having one good season and potential is enough.

All can enjoy the comedy at the present, if the same stuff is happening at the end of the season then the problems are even worse. 3 games in, big deal.

Looking at Van Gaal's club management record, he hit the ground running with Ajax with a fantastic array of academy talent,from 1991-1997. He continued his success in Europe with Barcelona up until 1999. His halcyon days indeed but,since then ,his record has been nowhere near as good,mustering two domestic titles with AZ Alkmaar and Bayern Munich in the remaining 14 years. Granted,however,that 4 of those years, were spent managing the national side.

His abrasive style of management seems to work where he has a clean slate and young players that are willing to be moulded into his philosophy but,when he starts throwing his weight around at a club with established 'stars', it begins to unravel. As good as a manager Ferguson was,how would he have faired when, at the age of 71,he continued his confrontional style of management at,say, Real Madrid?

Even a former pupil Ronaldo might have found that a bit grating. Van Gaal is no spring chicken so I can understand his enthusiasm to get back to his Ajax days of moulding the existing young talent at United. But are they of the same calibre as he had at Ajax? It doesn't look like it so far. And how much time will the United heirachy give him to complete his mission?

Van Gaal only won one of his first four games,when taking the post at Bayern after which, he preceded to reel off win after win, to lift the Bundersliga title. Toady, among others, will be hoping he repeats that feat this season but he's got an even more difficult job to repeat that achievement now.

[Chicog]

The Obsession continues with Spurs fans, but given they haven't won the league in over 50 years, it's understandable .

I really don't think it's fair to mention that the tiny totts haven't won the league in 53 years, 4 months and ten days.** That was uncalled for.

** Subject to change.

[petermik]

spurs fans are not obsessed with United. we just have a sense of humor and we love comedy. united are providing it. in abundance.

"we just have a sense of humor and we love comedy" you can say that again after following a team that has spent the past 50 years in the wilderness

Obviously you are forgetting those FA cup wins and that UEFA cup win. Never mind. Whatever makes you happy on the day after your teams most humiliating defeat in the last 50 years!

I suppose you think Moyes should still be in charge or do you now see the guy was hopelessly out of his depth?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and yes David Moyes was probably out of his depth-a couple of years ago I was listening to an interview with Eric Steele (ex goalkeeper and coach to many clubs inc United) he was coach at City under Sven then a few months later Fergie called him and offered him a job at OT,Eric Steel,s own admission was that he had left one big premiership club (City) but nothing could have prepared him for what he experienced when he arrived at Carrington (Uniteds training complex) he said that he now understands how some players are overawed and out of there depth as the expectations are so much greater there..............................so possibly David Moyes felt this way,we shall never know.

Edited August 28, 2014 by petermik

[smokie36]

Well let's compare the two as the season goes on because I think you have to say YES right now.

Let's see if £150m makes a difference

[BangrakBob]

apparently this is real

[P45Mustang]

No.

Probably Ferguson's worst signing of all time.

[Somtamme]

It's got to come down to the players he brought in, Fellani too slow, Mata not needed, and towards the end Shaw, which were transfers not really needed, and not really good enough. His no. one target (Fabregas) failed. So did Baines. One could argue looking back the Fabregas deal was attempted at completely the wrong time.

So, given this history in the transfer market, one could say this was unsuccessful, and did not address Utd principal needs: to replace two central defenders, replace Scholes and likes of Giggs etc. This was always going to be a tough ask and all happening prior to the World Cup. Now after this tournament, attractive players have now caught the eye, but u have to ask yourself would Moyes have the power to bring in some of these stars from the World Cup? Also, the timing of Moyes appointment, just prior to this tournament must be seen as questionable.

[kurtramsbottom]

It's got to come down to the players he brought in, Fellani too slow, Mata not needed, and towards the end Shaw, which were transfers not really needed, and not really good enough. His no. one target (Fabregas) failed. So did Baines. One could argue looking back the Fabregas deal was attempted at completely the wrong time.

So, given this history in the transfer market, one could say this was unsuccessful, and did not address Utd principal needs: to replace two central defenders, replace Scholes and likes of Giggs etc. This was always going to be a tough ask and all happening prior to the World Cup. Now after this tournament, attractive players have now caught the eye, but u have to ask yourself would Moyes have the power to bring in some of these stars from the World Cup? Also, the timing of Moyes appointment, just prior to this tournament must be seen as questionable.

Moyes signed Shaw?

[P45Mustang]

Yeh right.

Better stick to riding a bike.

[Somtamme]

Yeah, I think the wheels were put in motion bŷ Moyes

[carmine]

It's got to come down to the players he brought in, Fellani too slow, Mata not needed, and towards the end Shaw, which were transfers not really needed, and not really good enough. His no. one target (Fabregas) failed. So did Baines. One could argue looking back the Fabregas deal was attempted at completely the wrong time.

So, given this history in the transfer market, one could say this was unsuccessful, and did not address Utd principal needs: to replace two central defenders, replace Scholes and likes of Giggs etc. This was always going to be a tough ask and all happening prior to the World Cup. Now after this tournament, attractive players have now caught the eye, but u have to ask yourself would Moyes have the power to bring in some of these stars from the World Cup? Also, the timing of Moyes appointment, just prior to this tournament must be seen as questionable.

Moyes signed Shaw?

To say that Shaw is not good enough is a ridiculous statement. He was just over priced. As a young player he's a fantastic talent and one of the best we've produced in years.

Missing out on Fabregas was a bit of a gaff i agree. Nice bit of business that will prove to be for Chelsea. Mata's a very good player but i just can't see where he fits at United.

As for fellaini, paying 27m for that was a sackable offense it itself.

As for all the other players bought, they are quality and will do well. But imho there hasn't been enough emphasis on the back four which will hamper the transition in the immediate, and i don't understand, especially with all the money spent why this wasn't addressed by van Gaal. Ferguson always had a solid spine with commanding center backs whereas van Gaal ignores this issue and spends 60m on an attacking midfielder

[Somtamme]

But the query was, should Moyes have been given more time?

My point is, he was appointed prior to the World Cup and therefore, could Moyes have been allowed to have more time to make bigger signings after this tournament? There would have been more obvious players where Utd could have scouted and eventually purchased.

He also failed in his no. one pick (Fabregas), which resulted in buying in almost in lesser players but these players he bought in one could argue were what was available at the time.

[smokie36]

Perhaps the question to be asked....Should Moyes have been allowed to spend £200million?

[Chicog]

Missing out on Fabregas was a bit of a gaff i agree.

I'm not sure Fabregas wanted to leave at the time. Once Barca signed Rakitic he might have had a change of heart.

[champers]

Moyes was never given a proper chance to succeed. Whether he would or not is a moot point. LVG is already on the back foot and will find it difficult to halt the slide. I've always thought that Mourinho was a dead cert for the Man U job in due course. Following straight on from Ferguson had no appeal, but a couple of seasons with Chelsea, the inevitable fall-out with Abramovich and then he can ride in on his white charger to OT. He would be a success too, no doubt about it. This season will be very entertaining watching Man U. Plenty of goals at both ends, but Utd will ultimately fall short of the top 4 and that will be curtains for LVG.

[carmine]

Moyes was never given a proper chance to succeed. Whether he would or not is a moot point. LVG is already on the back foot and will find it difficult to halt the slide. I've always thought that Mourinho was a dead cert for the Man U job in due course. Following straight on from Ferguson had no appeal, but a couple of seasons with Chelsea, the inevitable fall-out with Abramovich and then he can ride in on his white charger to OT. He would be a success too, no doubt about it. This season will be very entertaining watching Man U. Plenty of goals at both ends, but Utd will ultimately fall short of the top 4 and that will be curtains for LVG.

LVG will do ok. He's a big man for a big job with the right experience. It'll just take time.

Moyes was a ridiculous choice that always looked like a rabbit in the headlights having been given a job that was way too big for him.