BOX JELLYFISH in the Gulf

[oldsailor35]

Regarding the recent death of a French boy who was stung in the southern gulf region by a box jellyfish.

Camille Lemmens a dive instructor and would be jellyfish expert of Bo Phut Koh Samui, recommends that Vinegar be poured over the stings. However according to Queensland, Australian jellyfish experts, Vinegar can in some cases only inflame the situation. Consequently, Vinegar has been withdrawn from all their Surf Lifesaving Stations, and now the recommended treatment is to pour hot to warm water over the stings. It is imperative that this advice be seriously considered.

I believe that Lemmens has stated that it can all depend on the type of jellyfish, but who is going to take time to correctly identify the creature. Just do not take the chance to use Vinegar.

[namdocmai]

[oldsailor35]

Beautiful indeed, but terrifying !

[h90]

That doesn't make sense: "I believe that Lemmens has stated that it can all depend on the type of jellyfish, but who is going to take time to correctly identify the creature. Just do not take the chance to use Vinegar."

Does vinegar help or does it not help with the Box Jellyfish?

If it helps with the BJ but not with others than it should be used. The worst that can happen it was another animal and the vinegar doesn't do much.

[Seastallion]

That doesn't make sense: "I believe that Lemmens has stated that it can all depend on the type of jellyfish, but who is going to take time to correctly identify the creature. Just do not take the chance to use Vinegar."

Does vinegar help or does it not help with the Box Jellyfish?

If it helps with the BJ but not with others than it should be used. The worst that can happen it was another animal and the vinegar doesn't do much.

It makes sense.

" according to Queensland, Australian jellyfish experts, Vinegar can in some cases only inflame the situation. ".

And the OP is saying can an affected person or his aid-givers afford the time to go and identify exactly what jellyfish is responsible?

[brd]

Usually some one urine is useful but in case of box jellyfish an antidote promptly is a MUST and should be available in each hotel and or in each family bags to the beach....

[h90]

That doesn't make sense: "I believe that Lemmens has stated that it can all depend on the type of jellyfish, but who is going to take time to correctly identify the creature. Just do not take the chance to use Vinegar."

Does vinegar help or does it not help with the Box Jellyfish?

If it helps with the BJ but not with others than it should be used. The worst that can happen it was another animal and the vinegar doesn't do much.

It makes sense.

" according to Queensland, Australian jellyfish experts, Vinegar can in some cases only inflame the situation. ".

And the OP is saying can an affected person or his aid-givers afford the time to go and identify exactly what jellyfish is responsible?

if it is any other less harmful animal and the vinegar makes the problem a bit worse than this is nothing in compare that it can safes life.

And in some cases you see it when it stings you.

So it is nonsense...they should clearly say in which cases the vinegar helps and in which not and don't treat the people like idiots on something so critical.

[grantnielsen]

PLEASE TRUST VINEGAR!!

I live in BKK & North Queensland, Australia. White Vinegar is even placed on our local beaches by our councils and Lifesaver clubs in my neck of the woods!

After applying... DON'T rub... gently removing the tentacles! For 'On The Beach' treatment, note Points 3, 5 & 7 below!

Don't try to establish what kind of Jelly Fish it is... Vinegar WON'T cause ANY adverse reaction.... but quick application stops any more toxin from being injected!

For More Info visit:

http://www.marine-medic.com.au/pages/firstaid/first_aid_treatment_of_jellyfish_stings.asp#Anchor-FIRST-35882

and

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/goodhealthintnq/topics/jellyfish.asp

FIRST AID TREATMENT OF CHIRONEX & OTHER BOX JELLYFISH STINGS
First aid treatment of chirodropid envenomation.

1. Retrieve the victim from the water and restrain them, if necessary.

2. If others are available, immediately send them for ambulance / medical help (emphasise the sting is from a Box jellyfish as the Ambulance may have antivenom available).

3. Check the victims Airway, breathing and circulation (ABC). Treat with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation (EAR), or heart massage (CPR), if necessary.

4. If others are available, or if resuscitation is not needed, pour vinegar over the stung area for a minimum of 30 seconds to inactivate remaining stinging cells on any adherent tentacles left on the skin.

5. AFTER vinegar application, apply compression bandages directly over major stings, ie. those:
a) covering an area more than half of one limb
causing impairment of consciousness
c) causing impairment of breathing
d) causing impairment of circulation
If vinegar is unavailable, the rescuer should pull tentacles off using their fingers (only a faint, harmless prickling will be felt) - before applying the compression bandages. REMEMBER to wash your hands after this as sting cells will remain on your fingers until they are carefully washed off!

6. If available, use CSL Chironex antivenom for all major cases (see above). Three ampoules each containing 20, 000 units may be given intramuscularly, above the bandages, by a trained health professional on the beach. One ampoule intravenously may be given by medical personnel.

7. Cold packs may be used (15 minutes and repeated when necessary) to help ease the skin pain in conscious victims.

8. In severe envenomation, use oxygen if available; Inhaled analgesia (ie entonox or penthrane) can be administered for unremitting pain in conscious, breathing, cooperative patients; its use should be discontinued if the patient's condition worsens.

Edited August 29, 2014 by grantnielsen

[Soutpeel]

Usually some one urine is useful but in case of box jellyfish an antidote promptly is a MUST and should be available in each hotel and or in each family bags to the beach....

peeing on somone was what I was always told as well, something to do with the ammonia in urea and male pee works better than female, although if it was me that was stung, think I would rather have the golden shower from the young lady, even if its not as effective...

[Costas2008]

Back in the old days in Greece, people used to apply Imodium when they were stank by a jelly fish and used to pee on the spot you were stank by a bee.

Used to work then, but then there are so many kinds of different jelly fish.

[Soutpeel]

Back in the old days in Greece, people used to apply Imodium when they were stank by a jelly fish and used to pee on the spot you were stank by a bee.

Used to work then, but then there are so many kinds of different jelly fish.

Costas, i would have thought applying badger milk to the affected areas more useful ?.... your thoughts as you are our resident expert on all things badger

[lucifer666]

Every dive ship i have ever been on carries vinegar specifically for this purpose. Never, in my 35 years as a diver have i ever heard of, or seen an adverse reaction to the vinegar treatment.

[Soutpeel]

Every dive ship i have ever been on carries vinegar specifically for this purpose. Never, in my 35 years as a diver have i ever heard of, or seen an adverse reaction to the vinegar treatment.

what about a golden shower from a rather attractive young lady then, I wouldnt expect an adverse reaction to this either, unless the person concerned batted for the other team...

[seajae]

have to agree with the vinegar, living in Australia and visiting the reef regularly to dive and fish vinegar was always on hand and distributed at all the beaches. It has saved a lot of lives by negating the stingers from continuing to pump more venom, cant see how after being so effective for many years they are now saying it doesnt work anymore. There has to be more to this, something as effective as vinegar cannot simply be bi-passed now because some new beaut toff has decided it doesnt work, guess all those people it help save were just lucky it did work for them, yet to hear of one where it had a negative effect ......

[Timebandit]

Long time diver of 40 years in Florida and Mexico. No there are no box jellyfish in these places but other jellyfish and very venomous critters. Most venoms are protein based so I always used a meat tenderizer paste. Worked quite well, even with sea nettles. I alway carried Adolf's meat tenderizer on the boat but any brand is the same.

[Costas2008]

Back in the old days in Greece, people used to apply Imodium when they were stank by a jelly fish and used to pee on the spot you were stank by a bee.

Used to work then, but then there are so many kinds of different jelly fish.

Costas, i would have thought applying badger milk to the affected areas more useful ?.... your thoughts as you are our resident expert on all things badger

I had an extensive talk with Dr Will, and we both agreed that badger milk can cure all maladies.

Of course, it matters very much, how you apply it and the quantity you use.

A good demonstration, could be seen in the film "Last tango in Paris" and I can assure you, that the butter used was made from badger milk.

Another vital point, I would like to stress is that people, before applying the badger milk, to seek my professional advice.

Not, every Mr Tom, Mr Dick or Mr Harrry (that was not a spelling mistake) can deal with the delicate procedures of handling badger milk.

I will always be here to help you.

[khunPer]

Vinegar has been advised here (in Thailand, Koh Samui and Koh Phangan), and a few years ago the local printed newspaper wrote that the rescue teams have vinegar in their kits.

Cannot say if it’s the best, but that’s the local advice…

[grantnielsen]

MORE VINEGAR CLARIFICATION - DO NOT USE FOR BLUE BOTTLE STINGS!

But it does work on the 'Killer' Jelly Fish - The 'Box' and the 'Irukandji' that are mainly found in Tropical Waters in the Australian Summer!

Refer to ABC Science Article: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/12/13/3389985.htm

Everyone has a theory on the best treatment for jellyfish stings - vinegar, hot water, fresh water, urine, cold tea, warm beer.Does vinegar work for all jellyfish stings? And how does it work?

Queensland experts advise that vinegar is best for jellyfish stings, but not all stingers should be treated the same way, says Dr Lisa-Ann Gershwin, director of the Australian Marine Stinger Advisory Service.

Vinegar works extremely well for box jellyfish and their tiny cousins the irukandji, found northwards along the coast from about where the Queensland town of Bundaberg sits, says Gershwin.

But vinegar should NOT be used for bluebottle stings, found further south along the beaches of eastern Australia. The official advice for bluebottle stings is to gently wash off the stingers with sea water and then immerse the area in hot water (no hotter than the rescuer can comfortably tolerate) for 20 minutes.

Edited August 29, 2014 by grantnielsen

[shaurene]

I would use the clear vinegar, was used for many years in Aussie , it is also good to spread over Mossi bites.

And then rush to the hospital for further treatment.

[shaurene]

Back in the old days in Greece, people used to apply Imodium when they were stank by a jelly fish and used to pee on the spot you were stank by a bee.

Used to work then, but then there are so many kinds of different jelly fish.

Costas, i would have thought applying badger milk to the affected areas more useful ?.... your thoughts as you are our resident expert on all things badger

I had an extensive talk with Dr Will, and we both agreed that badger milk can cure all maladies.

Of course, it matters very much, how you apply it and the quantity you use.

A good demonstration, could be seen in the film "Last tango in Paris" and I can assure you, that the butter used was made from badger milk.

Another vital point, I would like to stress is that people, before applying the badger milk, to seek my professional advice.

Not, every Mr Tom, Mr Dick or Mr Harrry (that was not a spelling mistake) can deal with the delicate procedures of handling badger milk.

I will always be here to help you.

I can imagine it would be very dangerous to try and milk a Badger.

[beautifulthailand99]

Have seen loads of Jellyfish in Hua Hin,Cha Am and Ko Chang ...

[Utley]

Adolphs meat tenderizer - an old scuba diving remedy.

[nakhonandy]

Vinegar has been used for a long time, and as others have pointed out is common on beaches and dive boats.

Some times on a dive boat it can take a lot of time before you are back on land, never seen anyone seriously ill due to the wait, but they do leave scars.

Clean off the tentacles preferably with tweezers, if not use your fingers but wash them regularly whilst doing so.

The alternative, as now taught in diver first aid is hot water, 42 - 48 degrees centigrade or as hot as you can bear it.

In reality you will have more chance of finding vinegar on a beach than hot water!

Best thing, take the vinegar with you, preferably white vinegar.

Of course get to the hospital ASAP.

[Soutpeel]

Back in the old days in Greece, people used to apply Imodium when they were stank by a jelly fish and used to pee on the spot you were stank by a bee.

Used to work then, but then there are so many kinds of different jelly fish.

Costas, i would have thought applying badger milk to the affected areas more useful ?.... your thoughts as you are our resident expert on all things badger

I had an extensive talk with Dr Will, and we both agreed that badger milk can cure all maladies.

Of course, it matters very much, how you apply it and the quantity you use.

A good demonstration, could be seen in the film "Last tango in Paris" and I can assure you, that the butter used was made from badger milk.

Another vital point, I would like to stress is that people, before applying the badger milk, to seek my professional advice.

Not, every Mr Tom, Mr Dick or Mr Harrry (that was not a spelling mistake) can deal with the delicate procedures of handling badger milk.

I will always be here to help you.

I can imagine it would be very dangerous to try and milk a Badger.

It is and the Greek Badgers are some of the most dangerous in the world, hence the reason Costas AKA Colin, is our resident expert on the lost art of Greek Badger milking.

His next challange is to attempt to milk a Honey Badger, know worldwide, as being the most dangereous badger of them all, in fact I have it on good authority that Costas has a trip planned to Zimbabwe shortly at the invitation of Uncle Bob himself to attempt milking his first honey badger, a venture not to be taken lightly

[sirocco]

In France, it tells us to rinse with salt water, then put sand on the wound and scrape with a plastic object, kind or cash card store. But between theory and practice, one tends to scratch us without taking all these precautions.

But if the bites are very spectacular and very very painful, it is rare that a deaths, even if it goes up comatose.

Unfortunately for little Max, it was a deadly jellyfish. And it was a little bundle of joy. Maybe the reaction would have been different if it had been an adult.

Terrible, terrible what happened.

[tw25rw]

Have seen loads of Jellyfish in Hua Hin,Cha Am and Ko Chang ...

None of them looked like box jellies..

Box jellies are more developed than other jellyfish. They actively hunt by sight and seek out suitable hunting areas rather than just drifting on the currents. Unfortunately, they prefer to hunt in the same sandy shallows where people like to swim. They avoid the open sea and return to rivers to spawn.

[masuk]

That doesn't make sense: "I believe that Lemmens has stated that it can all depend on the type of jellyfish, but who is going to take time to correctly identify the creature. Just do not take the chance to use Vinegar."

Does vinegar help or does it not help with the Box Jellyfish?

If it helps with the BJ but not with others than it should be used. The worst that can happen it was another animal and the vinegar doesn't do much.

It makes sense.

" according to Queensland, Australian jellyfish experts, Vinegar can in some cases only inflame the situation. ".

And the OP is saying can an affected person or his aid-givers afford the time to go and identify exactly what jellyfish is responsible?

if it is any other less harmful animal and the vinegar makes the problem a bit worse than this is nothing in compare that it can safes life.

And in some cases you see it when it stings you.

So it is nonsense...they should clearly say in which cases the vinegar helps and in which not and don't treat the people like idiots on something so critical.

Read this and other articles included, especially the Resuscitation Council article..

The most common stings are bluebottles, which hurt, but don't kill. They usually float on the surface of the water or are washed up on beach but can still sting. They are coloured bright blue and easy to see. Irukandji are about as big as a thumb nail and almost transparent.

If someone is stung, you haven't got time to try and identify the jellyfish concerned.

Obviously, research is still under way.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-08/vinegar-makes-box-jellyfish-stings-worse-aust-researchers/5374274

[tw25rw]

The most common stings are bluebottles,

Bluebottles a.k.a. Portuguese man o' war outside Australia..

[atyclb]

Every dive ship i have ever been on carries vinegar specifically for this purpose. Never, in my 35 years as a diver have i ever heard of, or seen an adverse reaction to the vinegar treatment.

what about a golden shower from a rather attractive young lady then, I wouldnt expect an adverse reaction to this either, unless the person concerned batted for the other team...

a golden shower from a rather attractive young lady but avoid vinegar for the BJ

[grantnielsen]

But if the bites are very spectacular and very very painful, it is rare that a deaths, even if it goes up comatose.

"Box jellyfish stings have killed over 60 people in Australia. But washing a sting in vinegar could save your life."

Source ABC Australia!

Visit: http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2014/01/29/3934240.htm