Laughing at job postings....I guess agencies have too many quality applicants

[Mencken]

I'm fairly happy with my job, well...the school, kids and agency has been great aside from pay, but I digess.

Looking thru a few job boards there is not one job that I would bother to even send a standard cover and generic resume for.

The real winners are the agencies trying to grab people for a few months of "fun" or "volunteer" work. Come in on a precious tourist visa, waste it in a classroom working illegally and then when its all over, we will rip you off.

All jobs suffer from fatal flaw after fatal flaw.

Pay is absurd, especially now that persons with BAs hold the cards. I'm shocked to see b25k jobs. They really must not want NES.

Do not state 40-45 unless that is what you are paying. State what you pay bc as soon as I here otherwise, we are done.

Too many hours. Really, four hours a day is plenty (we often get hit with five) if a teacher is expected to put together their own lessons. Doubly so if teaching multiple grades. More than two, that's just crazy talk. What prompted me to write this was a job with 100 hrs a month, apparently of their choosing!

Location. Most of the locations are remote or peripheries of BKK. Close enough to be expensive, far enough to be boring and inconvenient. Sprawl with no parks or nature.

Ridiculous credential demands. Do they have a Bachelor's from an accredited university? Fine, hired. Only a moron would pay 50k baht for a class to make 25-35k. Over a 4 yr teaching lifetime that will amortize to a pay cut of 1000 a month.

Agencies puff themselves up with a lot of educational blather and bluster, pompous seals and official logos, but if we have not worked for them, we know the type of people the hire and ultimately what they pay - so, THAT is their standard. Conversely, who in the --%$:"&*#+)&' wants to work for a company with some dumbass sounding name.

No work permit? LOL...buh bye

No visa - 555

This might be fine for side jobs, in fact - great. Do state that otherwise IM PASSING YOU BY.

Schools that are just simply desperate, not being both more open minded and smarter. OK, so you are some crap school in Buriram? Create some incentives if you can't pay and no, that does not mean a fourth story 20sqm meter flat.

10-11 month contracts. Any agency that gives you a ten mo contract has no respect for you. 11 mo contract is not much better, but understandable. What I might offer is the 12th month paid on signing new contract. No, this is not some bs bonus that is dangled and threatened, payable at years end.

Agencies take a huge part of a teachers wage and I have no issue with that in general. Done correctly, there is huge overhead keeping a teacher here. Not done correctly and its just a scam.

I urge teachers to sit a year out, at least a semester. Go to China, try something different. The only way wages and benefits will rise is by strangling the labor supply. There is definately a conspiracy to hold wages down.

Finally, there are no bigger chuckleheads than the guys thatvrhink they know all about teaching, "teachers". They read a book about child psychology and a few about education. Have a year of experience...before a go nowhere, hapless and failed English or other ridiculous major - now transformed into Thai English TEACHER! Yes, they never took an education class at home, never thought of being a teacher or instructor. No home country certifications, just some shitty tefl/celta whatever...teacher! No, you are not a teacher. Can you speak Thai? You are not a Thai teacher. Finally, do you even have a Thai lic? You are not a teacher. When you get a certification from home or a Masters in Education then and only then are you a teacher. I state this bc I know a guy like this and he is a real superficial fraud and piece of work. The arrogance I see on.some boards is astounding.

Final point, Thai (and all teachers really except for convo English teachers) are charged with literally raising these kids. That means having a high degree of responsibility for them in many ways. We as foreigners, as fly by night temporary teachers have none. Teachers have other responsibilities that farangs loathe, gate duty, activities, etc... Thesevare all part of being a Thai teacher. Finally, I Thai teacher would never display disrespect to other teachers. Are you mindful and sensitive to Thai culture or honestly don't give a F because the Thai are watching you, be assured. Being a good tracher in Thailand is as much about the other things as it is about teaching. If you barely make it in the door for your first class and are out the door ten minutes after the last, that is not quality and the only person you are fooling is yourself.

If you expect more money, do the entire job and do it to the best if your abilities. No one is expecting perfection even at 40k a month.

Incidentally, if your agency requires you on campus from 730-430, half hour lunch. Incl flag raising but not incl gate duty say...715, that comes to 90 hrs a month (ot, lol). Less than b200hr, then deduct tefl course, expenses like clothing, transport, school deductions if any, taxes if any, VISA or wp if any....er, yeah.

[TerryLH]

Some of what you say makes sense. Some, not so much.

"Agencies take a huge part of a teachers wage and I have no issue with that in general."

I've heard that often, but in my opinion, in most cases it's simply not true.

If an agency offers you a job at 30k, for them to be taking a 'huge part' of your wage, it would have to be taken from the 30k, not from what the school pays them to provide teachers.

The agency is providing a service, so should get compensated for doing so.

You can argue that their compensation is too much, but that is another issue.

Money wise, all a teacher needs to be concerned about is how much did they agree to work for, and are they getting that amount.

[Deacon Bell]

How dare they.

Perhaps apply for a real job where you need real qualifications and earn real money.

[jacky54]

why do people come here with good qualifications that should earn them far more back home, knowing what the wage scale and conditions are here, and then moan about it. Nobody held a gun to their heads did they?

[Deacon Bell]

Nobody held a gun to their heads did they?

No.

Usually it's somebody (small, Asian, sexy, but poor) holding their heads with something else.

[zeichen]

There is one position here in CM that requires a Masters, PhD preferred, 10 years of experience age 30-40, pay 50k for 40+ hours a week.

I do agree that seems bleak for decent wages and reasonable requirements. No one needs a PhD to teach Middle/high school.

[Gumballl]

The OP must be drunk or high on something. No horse allows one to sit so high.

Here's the best part... any teacher worth their weight in salt would NOT be teaching in Thailand.

Why is it that we here so many complaints from these whingers? I think it is because they know that they can't spell, can't communicate properly, and yet somehow think that they are God's gift to the world because they are willing to pull of an incredible feat in a foreign country where they are deemed a commodity... just like the latest rice harvest.

Seriously, there are some excellent teachers in this world, and it is a shame that they do not make their appearance more notable on TV... that is Thai Visa Forum.

[SilverBeast]

They should try to attract Teachers from English countries where they can basically semi-retire in Thailand. Not be so worried about trying to make money...

[ttthailand]

I have been reading this crap about teacher pay for too long and I think some are over paid. I have a friend from England who I can hardly understanding. He can't even write a decent sentence but yet he is teaching. How can this be ?

I don't know the answer but I do know that something is not correct....

Edited September 1, 2014 by ttthailand

[BigBadGeordie]

Mencken, I may be wrong, but I am not convinced English is your mother tongue?

[aarontendo]

To be fair the way things have gone that's pretty much it. I was thinking this over more and more, dug up an old post from 2006 (when I first came to visit here) and saw what people were saying about wages and such. 30k-40k (same), 380 baht for language center (same).

I've been saying that with these new rules and the trend one of three things will happen.

1. Salaries go up and Thailand gets their more educated and career teachers.

2. Non-NES such as Filipinos, Indians, etc come more and the salaries decrease overall.

3. Salaries stay the same and native teachers remain only for those schoools that can pay for it.

I see the second option happening, check any job adverts schools aint exactly falling over themselves to break that 40k salary barrier heh.

I'm in a decent enough gig here but I think 35k is pretty much a norm, damn shame...because Thailands neigbhors and competition are ratcheting up the competition.

[ttthailand]

They should try to attract Teachers from English countries where they can basically semi-retire in Thailand. Not be so worried about trying to make money...

That is a good idea. I would guess that there are many educated retired farang here that would be willing to work part time for an extra 20K a month. If the government made it easy to get WPs for these people they could solve some of the shortage problem quickly. Perhaps have a special case WP for retired English speaking farang.

I know a few farang right now that I think would be happy to teach. I also believe that they would be more stable and reliable than the uneducated teachers who come here to party.

Edited September 1, 2014 by ttthailand

[moose7117]

the audacity of these agencies !

how dare they charge a commission on their work !

they should give you the job for free !

i worked for a training provider to the West Australian mining industry and although they paid me well , @ 25000 baht a day, they had the audacity to charge over double that !

i should really complain to somebody !

stuff that i take the money and laugh all the way to the bank !

and then the aussie government hits me up for tax , so i keep @15000 baht a day after tax .

i am not bragging just trying to push a point, if the schools pay so little money , why don't you guys get real jobs, if they pay does noy suit you work somewhere else . like in whatever <deleted>-tree you come from.

rob

[zeichen]

Most other countries recruiters charge the school directly and it is usually a one off payment not a monthly deduction.

Agencies in Thailand are known for placing people in different positions that what they originally agreed to. Recruiting agencies are fine but just the way that they are run here gives a lot of people room to gripe.

[umbanda]

They should try to attract Teachers from English countries where they can basically semi-retire in Thailand. Not be so worried about trying to make money...

That is a good idea. I would guess that there are many educated retired farang here that would be willing to work part time for an extra 20K a month. If the government made it easy to get WPs for these people they could solve some of the shortage problem quickly. Perhaps have a special case WP for retired English speaking farang.

I know a few farang right now that I think would be happy to teach. I also believe that they would be more stable and reliable than the uneducated teachers who come here to party.

It is a Government Program for elementary schools that pays any Thai or Foreigner (even non native English speakers) to teach English full time without teaching certification or degrees.. The salary in 2012 was 10.000thb/month for full time work. Most countryside and villages' elementary schools are open for candidates...

If somebody is interested I still having info about the program (in Thai)....

Edited September 1, 2014 by umbanda

[mjnaus]

Someone needs a hug!

[TerryLH]

"It is a Government Program for elementary schools that pays any Thai or Foreigner (even non native English speakers) to teach English full time without teaching certification or degrees.. The salary in 2012 was 10.000thb/month for full time work. Most countryside and villages' elementary schools are open for candidates...

If somebody is interested I still having info about the program (in Thai)...."

I thought that program was discontinued. Perhaps some schools are trying to do it on their own.

"Most countryside and villages' elementary schools are open for candidates..."

Are you assuming that, or do you have specifics? I know someone in KK who might be interested.

You'd still need a work permit to be legal.

[StefanBBK]

If you are unhappy you need to do something else than complaining.

Go to a different country, look for a different job etc.

As long as there are many willing to work for low salaries, compensation will not get better.anyway, qualified teachers in good private schools make more than 40k.

[zeichen]

"qualified teachers in good private schools make more than 40k."

Not in CM. The only schools that pay above 40k are international schools and they usually ask for the world in qualifications. As I stated one job wanted a PhD and paid only 50k

[Johnsy]

Schools are getting a lot more than 30k from the government to pay an English teacher but pocket the rest and rarely pay the teachers taxes either. Along with government policy on education schools are to blame for the pay scales, you know what they say...."pay peanuts and you get........" The standard of education in Thailand is appalling as is the emphasis on it.

[makecoldplayhistory]

[1] The OP must be drunk or high on something. No horse allows one to sit so high.

[2] Here's the best part... any teacher worth their weight in salt would NOT be teaching in Thailand.

[3] Why is it that we here so many complaints from these whingers? I think it is because they know that they can't spell, can't communicate properly, and yet somehow think that they are God's gift to the world because they are willing to pull of an incredible feat in a foreign country where they are deemed a commodity... just like the latest rice harvest.

[4] Seriously, there are some excellent teachers in this world, and it is a shame that they do not make their appearance more notable on TV... that is Thai Visa Forum.

[1] Yes. I agree.

[2] Explain how? At some s%^ty ESL school, maybe. At the best American, British and International Schools, the pay is substantial (especially when you look at flight allowance, rent allowance etc) and the lifestyle good. A BA / BSc and post grad teaching cert are compulsory.

[3] ??? People complain because the can't spell or communicate?

[4] I'm a very good teacher. I don't know if I'd say excellent when I compare myself to some of my colleagues. Many people I know who are teachers wouldn't post here as getting drawn into an arguement and making a fool of yourself can get you in seriously hot water. I know of someone who was sacked for similar. The other reason is, why would they come here on ThaiVisa? Our passports are taken occassionaly by the admin staff and immigration lawyers to make sure WP, visas etc are up to date; we don't need to do anything whatsoever. We don't need to ask questions about loopholes in the system such as "what are the queues like for visa running at x"

[atyclb]

How dare they.

Perhaps apply for a real job where you need real qualifications and earn real money.

IMO would rather have my child learn english with a native english speaker non uni degreed person with english teaching certificate than with the great majority of thai/ fillipino teachers that may have lots of degrees.

students can better learn the proper accent be it UK or US english. i have no qualms about giving them a good salary either.

[bangkoklasse]

How dare they.

Perhaps apply for a real job where you need real qualifications and earn real money.

IMO would rather have my child learn english with a native english speaker non uni degreed person with english teaching certificate than with the great majority of thai/ fillipino teachers that may have lots of degrees.

students can better learn the proper accent be it UK or US english. i have no qualms about giving them a good salary either.

Yes I love those native English speakers from Scotland..............they have such a great accent compared to the Fillipino teachers

[dutchchiangmai]

"qualified teachers in good private schools make more than 40k."

Not in CM. The only schools that pay above 40k are international schools and they usually ask for the world in qualifications. As I stated one job wanted a PhD and paid only 50k

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I work in a Thai private school in CM and I make more than 40k a month, without extra teaching classes.

[dutchchiangmai]

For the OP, maybe a holiday and some valium is in order.

[Thaiready]

Schools are getting a lot more than 30k from the government to pay an English teacher but pocket the rest and rarely pay the teachers taxes either. Along with government policy on education schools are to blame for the pay scales, you know what they say...."pay peanuts and you get........" The standard of education in Thailand is appalling as is the emphasis on it.

We get 15k a month from Government for Teachers with a minumin of a Bachelers Degree. The only staff member that receives a 30k salary from the Government is the Manager/ Masters Degree required.

I'm a school owner, I know first-hand.

[shadmo63]

@OP. Its been my experience that, as a group, teachers are the biggest bunch of whingers on the planet. It doesn't matter where they come from East or West they just have a lot to complain about. If you don't like it find something else to do. Sure looking after children/teenagers is not easy and you have to do a reasonable amount of out of hours work, but 7-10 weeks paid holidays every year is compensation enough. In Thailand you can make double what any Thai or Filipino teacher makes, and for many all you have is a 'native tongue' and a one month qualification. Suck it up!!!

[aarontendo]

You think a lot of teachers have 7 - 10 weeks unpaid holiday here? Really?...

I'd argue that we make more because our education is worth a hell of a lot more too.

[Suradit69]

Laughing at job postings

You'd probably be in hysterics checking out the job applicants (many of whom post here at TV).

[smotherb]

why do people come here with good qualifications that should earn them far more back home, knowing what the wage scale and conditions are here, and then moan about it. Nobody held a gun to their heads did they?

Most English teachers I know here are not qualified to teach by any academic rationale. Most do not have a recognized degree or previous accredited teaching experience, and most cannot express themselves well in spoken or written English--e.g., see the post to which we respond.

Most of those who are purportedly qualified are dubiously so at best. Simply having an off-topic degree issued by some unaccredited school, or being a citizen of a country whose national language is English; neither means you speak English well nor have the qualifications to teach the subject. Having completed a short-term local TEFL course, or having local English teaching experience also does not qualify you to teach English. Most bar-girls speak enough English to teach youngsters a few nouns.

Thailand's desperate need for English-speakers fuels the local English teaching industry. However, the Thais are not stupid; they know the farangs will jump at a chance for a job here. Consequently, the "teachers" take the poor money, treatment, and conditions just to support their stay here. Quit trying to justify it academically; it is futile, there is no justification. Quit trying to get better pay, conditions, and respect; it is futile, you deserve no better.

Man-up, or woman-up; you are little more than a rag being used in an attempt to clean up a mess.

That said, there is still hope. Teaching English in Thailand can be a rewarding and fun-filled experience--provided you understand its limitations. It may well-suit the young traveler looking for adventure, experience, and a little remuneration in an exotic locale. It may provide additional funding for the farang wishing to live here for whatever reason. However, be realistic in your expectations and regard for your situation.