Thai officials eye shisha and e-cigarette tax

[DrTuner]

I don't really get all the different approaches to nicotine depending on its delivery system.

The carcinogens inhaled depend heavily on the delivery system, it's not the nicotine itself. Thus it becomes a public health issue and the underlying idea is that the costs to health care should be covered by the users, hence higher tax for shisha smokers, lower for e-cigs.

Of course that's not how it works IRL. Governments will tax anything that moves with drool frothing from the politicians mouths. They are the ones who get to skim the cream off the taxes.

[humqdpf]

Shisha, the fastest way to catch herpes in Thailand.

Actually it is not the fastest way to catch oral Herpes (HSV1) but then why would you try so hard to avoid infection with a virus that is carried by up to 95% of the human race. It is not the fastest mode of infection because the surface area of the mouthpiece is not conducive to passing on infections and the nicotine residue from the smoke will help to kill off bacteria and viruses.

Yes, HSV1 will also cause HSV2, the version that appears on the genital area. But that is not caused by smoking Shisha or by getting oral herpes (HSV1) alone. Besides, many of the better places where Shisha is provided will give you your own mouthpiece so that you don't have to share your mouthpiece with others.

[lor]

Sorry you are right but that is even more stupid. They gave many good reasons why it should be illegal but now they are saying who cares how bad it is as long as we can get some money from it!

[charmonman]

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Neither product is currently registered under any Thai laws, officials said.

<snip>

Officials said that despite its widespread use, shisha is in fact illegal

Anyone else notice a contradiction here?

It is illegal by virtue of the fact that it's importation is illegal, so no contradiction.

If the importation is illegal then it must be mentioned in a law regarding its importation therefore, yes, there is a contradiction.

[Merangue]

I don't really get all the different approaches to nicotine depending on its delivery system. It's a highly addictive drug. Harder to quit than heroin for many people. So just tax nicotine - then anything you put it in - shisha or e-cigs or gum or whatever helps make money that can be spent on something useful - like clinics for addicts.

And I don't want to punish nicotine addicts financially - but I like it if every thing with nicotine is too expensive for young people to develop the addiction while they are impressionable. Trying to find a fair point between these 2 different aims isn't easy.

Actually Nicotine itself is not a highly addictive drug. Any more so than Caffeine. When mixed with a cocktail of chemicals in tobacco cigarettes it becomes far more addictive.

No one is trying to say nicotine gum or nicotine patches cause addiction and in actual fact they, along with nicotine inhalers and mists, have more chemical constituents than the common Ecig.

Simple fact is that Ecigs are a threat to three groups.

The tobacco industry. Obviously.

The pharmaceutical industry sales of both NRT and cancer treatments.

The Government coffers.

It is all about money and always has been.

See below for more info

http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/is-nicotine-addictive.html

[misterphil]

Shisha, the fastest way to catch herpes in Thailand.

Actually it is not the fastest way to catch oral Herpes (HSV1) but then why would you try so hard to avoid infection with a virus that is carried by up to 95% of the human race. It is not the fastest mode of infection because the surface area of the mouthpiece is not conducive to passing on infections and the nicotine residue from the smoke will help to kill off bacteria and viruses.

Yes, HSV1 will also cause HSV2, the version that appears on the genital area. But that is not caused by smoking Shisha or by getting oral herpes (HSV1) alone. Besides, many of the better places where Shisha is provided will give you your own mouthpiece so that you don't have to share your mouthpiece with others.

If you want your lips to touch a mouth piece that a prostitue has been touching then carry on big boy.

[charmonman]

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Shisha, the fastest way to catch herpes in Thailand.

Actually it is not the fastest way to catch oral Herpes (HSV1) but then why would you try so hard to avoid infection with a virus that is carried by up to 95% of the human race. It is not the fastest mode of infection because the surface area of the mouthpiece is not conducive to passing on infections and the nicotine residue from the smoke will help to kill off bacteria and viruses.

Yes, HSV1 will also cause HSV2, the version that appears on the genital area. But that is not caused by smoking Shisha or by getting oral herpes (HSV1) alone. Besides, many of the better places where Shisha is provided will give you your own mouthpiece so that you don't have to share your mouthpiece with others.

If you want your lips to touch a mouth piece that a prostitue has been touching then carry on big boy.

Have you got a problem breathing the same air? One might be standing next to you on the skytrain after all. Or do you think shishas are primarily used by prostitutes? I find your comment somewhat strange. I have smoked a shisha only a few times over the years but the thought "oh no, a prostitute may have just used this mouthpiece" never crossed my mind.

[misterphil]

Shisha, the fastest way to catch herpes in Thailand.

What are u smoking. I assume your rferring to herpes simplex 1.

Or are u smoking it with the old fella.

I'm referring to that if you smoke shisha in a bar where prostitutes work, you are more than likely to catch herpes because of all the penis' that have been in their mouths.

[misterphil]

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Shisha, the fastest way to catch herpes in Thailand.

Actually it is not the fastest way to catch oral Herpes (HSV1) but then why would you try so hard to avoid infection with a virus that is carried by up to 95% of the human race. It is not the fastest mode of infection because the surface area of the mouthpiece is not conducive to passing on infections and the nicotine residue from the smoke will help to kill off bacteria and viruses.

Yes, HSV1 will also cause HSV2, the version that appears on the genital area. But that is not caused by smoking Shisha or by getting oral herpes (HSV1) alone. Besides, many of the better places where Shisha is provided will give you your own mouthpiece so that you don't have to share your mouthpiece with others.

If you want your lips to touch a mouth piece that a prostitue has been touching then carry on big boy.

Have you got a problem breathing the same air? One might be standing next to you on the skytrain after all. Or do you think shishas are primarily used by prostitutes? I find your comment somewhat strange. I have smoked a shisha only a few times over the years but the thought "oh no, a prostitute may have just used this mouthpiece" never crossed my mind.

Wake up and smell the coffee then bell end. If a girl in a bar in Thailand shares a shisha pipe with you, just think about how many penis' have been in her mouth recently.

[superal]

My one concern with E cigs is the non regulation of the liquids used . I have been told that many of the liquids available in Asia and around the world are produced in unhygienic back street workshops in China . Recently one of the main suppliers in the UK ( VIP ) had to withdraw one of its liquids as it contained a known substance that causes cancer .

E cigs are crying out for world regulation and control which would ( if proven to be far safer than regular cigarettes ) encourage more people to stop smoking tobacco and turn to E cigs . The NHS in the UK has stated that millions of pounds could be saved each year if people smoked E cigs and thus avoided diseases associated with tobacco smoking .

However , in the mean time, as a current tobacco smoker of many years can anyone anyone recommend or state what cigarettes they smoke in Thailand that they think are genuine and not fake rubbish . I recently had a pack of L&M that had no customs seal on the flip lid . I cut the cig open to find all sorts of rubbish mixed in with the tobacco . I have read on this forum that one guy only smokes the cheap roll your own Thai tobacco as this is genuine and not tampered with and contains few chemicals .

Cheers

[chrisinth]

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Shisha, the fastest way to catch herpes in Thailand.

There are faster ways I've been lead to believe.......................

[retell]

My one concern with E cigs is the non regulation of the liquids used . I have been told that many of the liquids available in Asia and around the world are produced in unhygienic back street workshops in China . Recently one of the main suppliers in the UK ( VIP ) had to withdraw one of its liquids as it contained a known substance that causes cancer .

E cigs are crying out for world regulation and control which would ( if proven to be far safer than regular cigarettes ) encourage more people to stop smoking tobacco and turn to E cigs . The NHS in the UK has stated that millions of pounds could be saved each year if people smoked E cigs and thus avoided diseases associated with tobacco smoking .

However , in the mean time, as a current tobacco smoker of many years can anyone anyone recommend or state what cigarettes they smoke in Thailand that they think are genuine and not fake rubbish . I recently had a pack of L&M that had no customs seal on the flip lid . I cut the cig open to find all sorts of rubbish mixed in with the tobacco . I have read on this forum that one guy only smokes the cheap roll your own Thai tobacco as this is genuine and not tampered with and contains few chemicals .

Cheers

Also get my tabacco per kilo at the market , 120 thb , cheap , if you look for it you can find the filtertubes and a filling machine also , its not the same as sigarettes but better i think , less coughing

But glad to hear they want to legalise e sigs so can start using that thing more often , now only in the car

[DrTuner]

Anywhere I've smoked shisha they've brought one with a fresh mouth tip installed, one of these:

They cost about 600b for a pack of 100, if I remember correctly.

[DrTuner]

I have been told that many of the liquids available in Asia and around the world are produced in unhygienic back street workshops in China .

Not surprising, seeing as the e-cigs were invented in China. And they are not really cigarettes, the word used is "vaping", not smoking as there is no smoke. Nothing burns, it's just the PG/VG being vaporized by the hot coil.

So the issue is if the PG/VG/flavor additives are pharma grade. The easiest way to ensure this is to mix your own juices. Cheap, too. Nicotine can be added if desired, but I'm not sure what the import regulations in Thailand are. According to MIMS the Thai FDA class of nicotine is D (Dangerous Drug) : http://www.mims.com/THAILAND/Viewer/Html/PoisonCls.htm . That might pose restrictions on importation.

[chotthee]

Thai lotteries should also be slap with a sin-tax.

It is a sin to gamble in a Buddhist country right?

[Merangue]

My one concern with E cigs is the non regulation of the liquids used . I have been told that many of the liquids available in Asia and around the world are produced in unhygienic back street workshops in China . Recently one of the main suppliers in the UK ( VIP ) had to withdraw one of its liquids as it contained a known substance that causes cancer .

E cigs are crying out for world regulation and control which would ( if proven to be far safer than regular cigarettes ) encourage more people to stop smoking tobacco and turn to E cigs . The NHS in the UK has stated that millions of pounds could be saved each year if people smoked E cigs and thus avoided diseases associated with tobacco smoking .

However , in the mean time, as a current tobacco smoker of many years can anyone anyone recommend or state what cigarettes they smoke in Thailand that they think are genuine and not fake rubbish . I recently had a pack of L&M that had no customs seal on the flip lid . I cut the cig open to find all sorts of rubbish mixed in with the tobacco . I have read on this forum that one guy only smokes the cheap roll your own Thai tobacco as this is genuine and not tampered with and contains few chemicals .

Cheers

Whilst there are some E Liquids I would not buy it is not hard to find reputable manufacturers and sellers of E Liquids. Just because some come from China does not mean they are not of good quality. Some of the big brands would put a lot of European companies to shame in the hygiene stakes. The same goes for the manufacturing of the vast majority of the batteries and tanks that most people are using.

VIP had already withdrawn the product from its shelves as soon as it was identified that they contained Diacetyl the cancer causing agent. It was an error due to a management change that had left a few bottles on the shelf in ONE of its shops. The problem of Diacetyl or acetyl propionyl (both of which are used for making buttery flavours) is well know due to studies completed by Dr Farsalinos http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/research/2014/178-da-ap in Greece who was funded by the Ecig industry AND the European and American consumers in a crowd funded study. Interestingly are you aware that there is far more Diacetyl in normal cigarette than there was in the VIP juice by about 100 times? That is alongside the other 4000 chemicals; 70 of which are known carcinogens; that are not in the Ejuice.

I have smoked the Thai tobacco you are talking about and quite frankly it almost ripped my throat out. I normally smoked Golden Virginia or Amber leaf rolling tobacco as a preference but ran out while in Isaan.

It is also the by product of burning that produces most of the harmful chemicals so whilst better than a tailor made cigarette it will still damage you far more than any Ecig. People smoke for the Nicotine but die from the smoke.

Steer clear of the Thai stuff if I were you or at least don't buy it in bulk till you have tried it.

I have been told that many of the liquids available in Asia and around the world are produced in unhygienic back street workshops in China .

Not surprising, seeing as the e-cigs were invented in China. And they are not really cigarettes, the word used is "vaping", not smoking as there is no smoke. Nothing burns, it's just the PG/VG being vaporized by the hot coil.

So the issue is if the PG/VG/flavor additives are pharma grade. The easiest way to ensure this is to mix your own juices. Cheap, too. Nicotine can be added if desired, but I'm not sure what the import regulations in Thailand are. According to MIMS the Thai FDA class of nicotine is D (Dangerous Drug) : http://www.mims.com/THAILAND/Viewer/Html/PoisonCls.htm . That might pose restrictions on importation.

Agree with you on the home making. There can be no doubt about what is in it if you make it yourself. It is also much cheaper.

There was a study on nicotine produced in 2013 which has challenged the FDA classification of Nicotine. Interestingly enough the Classification the FDA uses is based on a rather dubious study completed in the 1800's which became . The commonly believed LDL of 50-60 mg/kg is vastly over the top. Recent studies place it at about the 500-1000mg/kg LDL. That would place it at the level of toxicity slightly below fairy washing up liquid. This information is beginning to seep into the public health sphere but there is a lot of Tobacco control resistance to it.

See

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880486/

There have been ZERO reported deaths that can be attributed to the use of Ecigs in the 12 years they have been in existence. Believe me if there had been some, we would all know about it.

Whilst 'some' people have an allergic reaction to Propylene glycol or Vegetable Glycerine, for the vast majority of people it is perfectly harmless. It is the same stuff used in Asthma inhalers and they actually put it in to Hospital air conditioning to help cleanse the air of bacteria. You can buy Vegetable Glycerine in Boots and it is commonly used for sore throats.

Nicotine in the levels used in Ecigs is no more dangerous than Caffeine in a coffee.

The only possible area of concern is flavourings being used and that is why Farsalinos and others are studying them. Diacetyl and acetyl propionyl are removable dangers but even with them in the mix they are still far safer than burning tobacco.

For links to other research see

http://nicotinepolicy.net/ a research and news site run by and operated by a wide variety of the top public health, Tobacco and nicotine experts in the world including Richard Ashcroft • Scott Ballin • Clive Bates • Karl Fagerström • Konstantinos Farsalinos • Jonathan Foulds • Coral Gartner • Joe Gitchell • Jacques Le Houezec • Delon Human • Lynn T. Kozlowski • Michael Kunze • Karl Lund • Riccardo Polosa • Lars Ramström • Gilbert Ross • Michael Siegel • Gerry Stimson • Dave Sweanor • Derek Yach

[louse1953]

Shisha, the fastest way to catch herpes in Thailand.

And hep.

[louse1953]

Do people who smoke these products actually know what they are inhaling?

[louse1953]

Shisha is already banned in Thailand!!! So now they plan to tax an illegal activity. I have never heard of anything so stupid!

You've never heard of an illegal substance called Marijuana that is now legal in many countries for the sole purpose of collecting taxes?

Now some states in the States are complaining that they are not getting enough tax.Not as many pot heads as they thought.How they have changed their tune once money comes into it.I can see adverts now"Smoke more dope for your countries sake".

[louse1953]

This is discriminatory targeting , singling out just a few so, - get em' all with a tax on toilet tissue !

55555,how much you rekon you raise from that,dont you use the Gun?

[louse1953]

Shisha, the fastest way to catch herpes in Thailand.

Actually it is not the fastest way to catch oral Herpes (HSV1) but then why would you try so hard to avoid infection with a virus that is carried by up to 95% of the human race. It is not the fastest mode of infection because the surface area of the mouthpiece is not conducive to passing on infections and the nicotine residue from the smoke will help to kill off bacteria and viruses.

Yes, HSV1 will also cause HSV2, the version that appears on the genital area. But that is not caused by smoking Shisha or by getting oral herpes (HSV1) alone. Besides, many of the better places where Shisha is provided will give you your own mouthpiece so that you don't have to share your mouthpiece with others.

If you want your lips to touch a mouth piece that a prostitue has been touching then carry on big boy.

Two other lips of girls i could suck on,i wouldn't worry too much about mouth pieces.

[arunsakda]

​I don't believe that they are "safe" alternative to smoking. Chinese made "juices" contain poisons and toxic substances.

Their possession should probably should be banned in Thailand, not just sale.

They have been proven a dangerous fire hazard and certainly should never be allowed on commercial aircraft.

ALPA Says FAA E-Cigarette Warning Doesn’t Go Far Enough

Bloomberg News (1/23, Levin) reports that ALPA has responded to an FAA warning to airlines about the risk of fire from e-cigarettes in checked baggage, citing two recent fires started by e-cigarettes. In an email response, ALPA said it “has a long standing vocal opposition to the carriage of lithium metal batteries, such as those contained in e-cigarettes, in the aircraft cargo hold,” and that the advisory statement “didn’t go far enough,” arguing “all lithium batteries should be banned from airline cargo holds.”

USA Today reports that Spokesman for the Tobacco Vapor Electronic Cigarette Association Ray Story said e-cigarettes “pose no problem” when packed correctly, but “occasionally irresponsible people will tamper with them or pack them carelessly.” There were 25 fire or explosion incidents between 2009 and 2014, and nine people were injured, usually when “the cigarettes were charging.” The Los Angeles Times (1/23, Martin) also covers this story.

Edited January 26, 2015 by arunsakda